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[Ripclawe]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...,1958486,print.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

PLANTATION -- One gunman is dead and another is in critical condition after they tried to rob a sandwich store and were shot by an armed customer Wednesday night, authorities said.

Donicio Arrindell, 22, of North Lauderdale, and Fredrick Gadson, 21, of Fort Lauderdale, entered a Subway restaurant at 1949 N. Pine Island Rd. and demanded money at gunpoint about 11:17 p.m., said Detective Robert Rettig, a police spokesman.

They then attempted to rob the lone customer, John Lovell, 71, of Plantation, by forcing him into the restroom, but Lovell, who was legally armed, pulled his gun and fired, police said.

Arrindell collapsed at the scene, while a police K-9 unit found Gadson hiding in a hedge in front of a nearby bank at the Jacaranda Square shopping center, officials said.

Both men were taken to Broward General Medical Center, where Arrindell died.

Gadson was in critical but stable condition on Thursday, investigators said.

Police said Lovell appeared to have shot in self-defense.

A man who said he was a friend of Lovell's described him as a "quiet Clint Eastwood-type you don't want to mess with."

"They just happened to pick on the wrong guy at the wrong time," said Wesley White of Yulee in north Florida. White said he's known Lovell for 19 years.

Lovell is a former Marine who was a member of the helicopter detail that transported Presidents Kennedy and Johnson, White said. He also was a former Pan Am and Delta airline pilot who worked out regularly and was in good condition, White said.

"He's also one heck of a shot," White, 50, said.

Lovell has no family or children and is retired, White said.

No one answered the door at Lovell's two-story townhome Thursday, and attempts to reach him by phone were unsuccessful. Reporters and TV cameras were camped out in front of the residence hoping for an interview.

Charges are pending against the surviving suspect, Rettig said.

Lovell is not expected to be charged, the spokesman said.

Sebastian Shakespeare, 23, of Lauderhill, said he was walking toward the store about 11:30 p.m. Wednesday to buy a sandwich. He said he saw Lovell pointing a silver handgun at the floor with one of the suspects on the ground.

"He looked like he was in control of the situation, like he had experience in these situations," Shakespeare said.

Kathy East, a teacher at Stranahan High School in Fort Lauderdale, said her son Matthew was a longtime friend of Arrindell and Gadson. The three boys attended Coconut Creek High School together, said East, of North Lauderdale.

Arrindell didn't graduate but was pursuing his GED, she said.

"I'm absolutely stunned he would have held up a store," East said.

Police have found a handgun used by one of the suspects, Rettig said.

 

[USD]

Wow, the seniors have been owning it up lately.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Sebastian Shakespeare

Wtf? :lol

 

[Brobzoid]

:\

I bet for every armed hero that come from situations like these, there are at least 50 armed wanna-be heroes that have a really heavy itch on their trigger...

 

[itsinmyveins]

:\

I bet for every armed hero that come from situations like these, there are at least 50 armed wanna-be heroes that have a really heavy itch on their trigger...

I don't know if I'd would consider myself a hero for killing a 22-year old and wounding another. It'd be one thing if they shot someone, but they didn't. At the end of the day; I'd rather lose the cash in my wallet than shooting someone. But that might just be me.

 

[Brobzoid]

I don't know if I'd would consider myself a hero for killing a 22-year old and wounding another. It'd be one thing if they shot someone, but they didn't. At the end of the day; I'd rather lose the cash in my wallet than shooting someone. But that might just be me.

maybe I should have worded myself better, but my point wasn't that a man who kills someone in a position where he isn't going to get prosecuted is automatically a hero, I meant that the people who wish so dearly to be labeled as heroes for similar actions read these news stories and get all fired up.

 

[Loki]

I don't know if I'd would consider myself a hero for killing a 22-year old and wounding another. It'd be one thing if they shot someone, but they didn't. At the end of the day; I'd rather lose the cash in my wallet than shooting someone. But that might just be me.

It's a crazy world. You've never heard of people getting shot even after complying with a criminal's request? Happens every day. If you have the means to protect yourself and desire to do so, rather than trusting your life to the whims of a possibly deranged individual, self defense is your natural right; whomever avails themselves of that right should not be second guessed by people outside the situation. Period. The robbers threatened lethal force first by brandishing firearms -- the blame, should you believe in assigning any, lies with them.

 

[itsinmyveins]

maybe I should have worded myself better, but my point wasn't that a man who kills someone in a position where he isn't going to get prosecuted is automatically a hero, I meant that the people who wish so dearly to be labeled as heroes for similar actions read these news stories and get all fired up.

Sorry if it came out like that, but I didn't mean to imply that you think every gun-carrying dude is a hero. I just continued - with my view - on that stretch of though you first constructed. Just because of what you now say - people reading the story and getting all fired up about it.

It's a crazy world. You've never heard of people getting shot even after complying with a criminal's request? Happens every day. If you have the means to protect yourself and desire to do so, rather than trusting your life to the whims of a possibly deranged individual, self defense is your natural right; whomever avails themselves of that right should not be second guessed by people outside the situation. Period. The robbers threatened lethal force first by brandishing firearms -- the blame, should you believe in assigning any, lies with them.

Yes, it is possible that they would have shot someone later on, I'm not arguing against that.

 

[Loki]

Yes, it is possible that they would have shot someone later on, I'm not arguing against that.

I'm not even talking about later. Right there, at that moment, the victim has no way of knowing whether they're going to shoot him anyway after he hands over his cash. It happens pretty frequently, really. I wouldn't ask that someone essentially be a mind reader (to read the criminal's true intentions) in order to satisfy my own questionable moral notions, and neither should you. Not when their life is on the line. If someone wants to roll the dice and hand over the cash, then that's fine -- I don't take issue with that, and most of the time the situation ends there. But neither do I take issue with someone who decided to defend himself against persons who threatened lethal force first, and who would possibly shoot him anyway after he cooperates. That's his natural right.

Different strokes. My point is to not play the blame game in these sorts of situations, unless one clearly acted outside the bounds of strict self-defense, since you then venture into moral gray areas.

 

[LuCkymoON]

I don't know if I'd would consider myself a hero for killing a 22-year old and wounding another. It'd be one thing if they shot someone, but they didn't. At the end of the day; I'd rather lose the cash in my wallet than shooting someone. But that might just be me.

I kinda agree, while I have no sympathy for the criminals (cuz they got caught) If they wanted to kill someone they would've done so as soon as they got the money from the register or when they first walked in. It's easier to take a wallet off a dead man than a living man.

It's a crazy world. You've never heard of people getting shot even after complying with a criminal's request? Happens every day. If you have the means to protect yourself and desire to do so, rather than trusting your life to the whims of a possibly deranged individual, self defense is your natural right; whomever avails themselves of that right should not be second guessed by people outside the situation. Period. The robbers threatened lethal force first by brandishing firearms -- the blame, should you believe in assigning any, lies with them.

I agree with this too, thats why the perps should have shot as soon as they walked in but they didn't so now one is dead and one will be a butt buddy in prison.

 

[MrToughPants]

Lovell is a former Marine

The other day it was a 72 year old marine who beat the shit out of someone trying to steal his wallet.

Kickass is their middle name even when they're elderly.

 

[SCReuter]

Don't **** with the Marines, especially the elderly ones.

That's what the Off-Topic Discussion has taught me this week.

 

[Troidal]

Eh. The kids had guns too, and if I was getting robbed and I also had a gun...tough call. They could possibly kill me too.

Like they say, it's kill or be killed.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Sorry if it came out like that, but I didn't mean to imply that you think every gun-carrying dude is a hero. I just continued - with my view - on that stretch of though you first constructed. Just because of what you now say - people reading the story and getting all fired up about it.



Yes, it is possible that they would have shot someone later on, I'm not arguing against that.

Sheit i remember when i was living in VA Beach some dude walked into the 7 11 shot the lady at the counter and THEN had the nerve to demand the money in the safe. Most ridiculous robbery caught on tape ever, "BANG" Gimmie da money!", "...or what you'll shoot me?".

Those two walked on the edge once they involved guns and intimidation, they didnt learn soon enough theres always someone ready to go the full distance, and you never know who's path you will cross. Oh well.

 

[itsinmyveins]

I'm not even talking about later. Right there, at that moment, the victim has no way of knowing whether they're going to shoot him anyway after he hands over his cash. It happens pretty frequently, really. I wouldn't ask that someone essentially be a mind reader (to read the criminal's true intentions) in order to satisfy my own questionable moral notions, and neither should you. Not when their life is on the line. If someone wants to roll the dice and hand over the cash, then that's fine -- I don't take issue with that, and most of the time the situation ends there. But neither do I take issue with someone who decided to defend himself against persons who threatened lethal force first, and who would possibly shoot him anyway after he cooperates. That's his natural right.

Different strokes. My point is to not play the blame game in these sorts of situations, unless one clearly acted outside the bounds of strict self-defense, since you then venture into moral gray areas.

I'm getting a feeling you're reading to much into what I've written, and I'm not blaming that old man.

Then again, I'd love some statistics of how many robbers that end with people being killed after their complience. Of course it happens, but it'd be nice with some numbers on it. But I guess there aren't any(?).

I kinda agree, while I have no sympathy for the criminals (cuz they got caught) If they wanted to kill someone they would've done so as soon as they got the money from the register or when they first walked in. It's easier to take a wallet off a dead man than a living man.

Pretty much the same way I reasoned too.

 

[acidviper]

Stop robbing marines.

 

[laserbeam]

Stop robbing marines.

Says it all. Gonna see an age of criminals asking people if they are marines before deciding to commit a crime pretty soon.

 

[shpankey]

damn, these "greatest generation" old people still representin', especially the marine ones. shouldn't be f'd with i guess

 

[Loki]

I'm getting a feeling you're reading to much into what I've written, and I'm not blaming that old man.

I'm not suggesting that you're blaming him, per se, but your initial post conveyed slightly condescending moral judgment, albeit muted. Perhaps it was just the way you phrased it...

No biggie either way. I just wanted to get my thoughts out there, because there's always someone who pipes up in these topics and chastises the person defending themselves (not you, just in general).

 

[itsinmyveins]

I'm not suggesting that you're blaming him, per se, but your initial post conveyed slightly condescending moral judgment, albeit muted. Perhaps it was just the way you phrased it...

No biggie either way. I just wanted to get my thoughts out there, because there's always someone who pipes up in these topics and chastises the person defending themselves (not you, just in general).

To make it short; I'm not judging him and of course I understand why he did what he did, but I'm not sure I agree with his actions.

 

[shpankey]

i not only agree with them, i applaud them.

 

[Defuser]

"The Price is wrong bitch!!!" *BANG*

 

[SCReuter]

To make it short; I'm not judging him and of course I understand why he did what he did, but I'm not sure I agree with his actions.

You mean, defending himself?

Putting two low-life criminals in their place? (They knew the risky circumstances.)

Setting an example?

 

[Dr_Cogent]

:\

I bet for every armed hero that come from situations like these, there are at least 50 armed wanna-be heroes that have a really heavy itch on their trigger...

I bet you are full of shit too.

 

[Link]

Holy shit, this happened literally around the corner from my apartment.

 

[JayDubya]

Man, what a tragedy - he left one alive.

 

[Brobzoid]

I bet you are full of shit too.

I take a dump twice a day, and I still need to say shit like that!

 

[Ketchup Boy]

I feel sorry for the dude that died. I would've shot the dude in the legs because I wouldn't want to kill somebody, just shoot them for being a dumbas$.

 

[Aaron]

To make it short; I'm not judging him and of course I understand why he did what he did, but I'm not sure I agree with his actions.

I think anyone who waves a gun in your face just lost the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Wow, the seniors have been owning it up lately.

I know right. Did something recently happen to stir them up?

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

These old guys are a part of the les miserables project. They are clones of big boss and fully capable of kicking any and all ass.

Man, what a tragedy - he left one alive.

what? :lol

 

[Brobzoid]

These old guys are a part of the les miserables project. They are clones of big boss and fully capable of kicking any and all ass.



what? :lol

Is your french in order? Les Enfants Terrible, nein?

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Is your french in order? Les Enfants Terrible, nein?

Oh shit. LOL I'm thinking of the damned movie. Wrong term.

XD

 

[shpankey]

was there beautiful pine trees around?

 

[datruth29]

Man, what a tragedy - he left one alive.

Oh man Jay, that one got me. :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Mustaphadamus]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...,1958486,print.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

holy smokes batman, i live in plantation :S

 

[Mustaphadamus]

was there beautiful pine trees around?

No, just Serene swaying Queen Palms.

 

[Lucky Forward]

"The Price is wrong bitch!!!" *BANG*

"Semper Die!!!" *BANG*

 

[levious]

Man, what a tragedy - he left one alive.

don't worry, he'll probably get further screwed by the felony murder rule.

 

[Grifter]

I feel sorry for the dude that died. I would've shot the dude in the legs because I wouldn't want to kill somebody, just shoot them for being a dumbas$.

Tremendous idea -- shoot an armed man in the leg so he's still alive. There's no chance he'll tag you in the head in return or anything.

 

[SonnyBoy]

They got what they deserved. If you live by the gun, you die by the gun.

IMO, criminals have too many rights. If you're purposefully putting someone in potential danger and get killed I have no sympathy for you or your family.

 

[itsinmyveins]

You mean, defending himself?

Putting two low-life criminals in their place? (They knew the risky circumstances.)

Setting an example?

What they did was wrong, no doubt, and I understand why he responded like he did. But I don't know if they deserved to die for it.

 

[Mustaphadamus]

I feel sorry for the dude that died. I would've shot the dude in the legs because I wouldn't want to kill somebody, just shoot them for being a dumbas$.

When someone does a armed robbery they are doing it with the intent to take what is not theirs by any means necessary. With that in mind you need to be ready, able and willing to react appropriately.

 

[SonnyBoy]

What they did was wrong, no doubt, and I understand why he responded like he did. But I don't know if they deserved to die for it.

So should he have waited until they killed him before attempting to shoot back? I don't think it would have worked out too well.

I won't say that anyone deserves to die but they put themselves in that predicament and it's entirely their fault.

I feel sorry for the dude that died. I would've shot the dude in the legs because I wouldn't want to kill somebody, just shoot them for being a dumbas$.

Yeah, shoot him in his leg so that he can still shoot you with his two good arms. :lol

 

[shpankey]

I feel sorry for the dude that died. I would've shot the dude in the legs because I wouldn't want to kill somebody, just shoot them for being a dumbas$.

dude HAD A GUN. you don't think he would have shot back? :lol

 

[ToxicAdam]

Arrindell didn't graduate but was pursuing his GED, she said.

"I'm absolutely stunned he would have held up a store," East said.

Yea, I'm sure at the age of 22, the guy was hard at work on getting that GED.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Man, what a tragedy - he left one alive.

.

The OT has really taught me that concealed carry laws are the wave of the future to strike a little hesitation into would be criminals.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

What they did was wrong, no doubt, and I understand why he responded like he did. But I don't know if they deserved to die for it.

And by carrying a gun into a robbery they're implying that there is a circumstance where innocent people might deserve to die just for carrying a wallet or being at a Subway. **** that. You carry a gun to rob someone you DESERVE to get shot and dice roll for your life.

 

[Pokeylongo]

I wasn't there, so it's hard to say, but because the kids were so young I think that killing one of them was a bit much. Young people do stupid things and there was still a lot of time in that guy's life to change. But there's also the possibility that they were willing to kill, and maybe the old guy saw that. It's hard to say without having been there.

 

[castle007]

awesome story :lol