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[FoneBone]

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationw...,6634201.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines

WHEAT-FREE COMMUNION NOT VALID
Ill girl has rite denied

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

August 20, 2004


BRIELLE, N.J. - An 8-year-old girl with a disorder that keeps her from eating wheat has had her first Holy Communion declared invalid because the wafer contained no wheat, violating Roman Catholic doctrine.

Now, Haley Waldman's mother wants the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the girl's condition should not exclude her from the sacrament, which commemorates the Last Supper of Jesus before crucifixion. The mother believes a rice Communion wafer would suffice.

"How does it corrupt the tradition of the Last Supper? It's just rice versus wheat," said Elizabeth Pelly-Waldman.

Church doctrine holds that Communion wafers, like the bread served at the Last Supper, must have at least some unleavened wheat.

"This is not an issue to be determined at the diocesan or parish level, but has already been decided for the Roman Catholic Church throughout the world by Vatican authority," Trenton Bishop John M. Smith said in a statement last week.

Haley has celiac sprue disease, meaning she has a genetic intolerance of gluten, a food protein contained in wheat and other grains. Gluten can damage the lining of her small intestine, leading to vitamin deficiencies, bone-thinning and sometimes cancer.

The diocese says the girl can receive a low-gluten wafer, or just drink wine, but that anything without gluten does not qualify. But Pelly-Waldman says even a small amount of wheat could harm Haley.

Haley's Communion controversy isn't the first. In 2001, the family of a Massachusetts girl with the disease left the Catholic Church after being denied permission to use a rice wafer.

Some Catholic churches allow no-gluten hosts, while others do not, said Elaine Monarch of the Celiac Disease Foundation support group.

Haley realizes the consequences of taking a wheat wafer.

"I'm on a gluten-free diet because I can't have wheat. I could die," she said last week.

Haley received communion in May, but the diocese said last month that it would not validate the sacrament because of the substitute wafer.

Pelly-Waldman is seeking help from the Pope.

"This is a church rule, not God's will, and it can easily be adjusted to meet the needs of the people, while staying true to the traditions of our faith," she wrote in a letter to the Vatican.

 

[RevenantKioku]

I'm actually on the side of the church for this one.
Mostly because I hate little kids with weird ass diseases.

 

[ManDudeChild]

"This is a church rule, not God's will, and it can easily be adjusted to meet the needs of the people, while staying true to the traditions of our faith," she wrote in a letter to the Vatican.

Somehow I don't think she wrote that.

But that aside, organized religion is really getting out of hand. Would those small minded "holy men" rather she die? I'm sure they'd get some extra after life points from their fictional god for having a child die. GO RELIGION!

 

[goodcow]

I'm actually on the side of the church for this one.
Mostly because I hate little kids with weird ass diseases.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[ManDudeChild]

I'm actually on the side of the church for this one.
Mostly because I hate little kids with weird ass diseases.

 

[Lambtron]

 

[Lucky Forward]

Haley received communion in May, but the diocese said last month that it would not validate the sacrament because of the substitute wafer.

So she already had her first communion with a rice wafer, and what's at issue is whether or not the church says it "counted" as a sacrament? So I guess the church's argument would be that because the the wafer lacked the requisite gluten, the wafer did not transform into the Body of Christ during the consecration. Which would imply that God/Jesus, the source of all miracles, looked down on this ceremony where this sweet little girl eagerly awaited to partake in the sacrament, and He checked out the molecular content of the host, decided it didn't look "kosher" (to mix religious metaphors) and in effect said to the little girl, "No soup for you!"

 

[RevenantKioku]

So she already had her first communion with a rice wafer, and what's at issue is whether or not the church says it "counted" as a sacrament? So I guess the church's argument would be that because the the wafer lacked the requisite gluten, the wafer did not transform into the Body of Christ during the consecration. Which would imply that God/Jesus, the source of all miracles, looked down on this ceremony where this sweet little girl eagerly awaited to partake in the sacrament, and He checked out the molecular content of the host, decided it didn't look "kosher" (to mix religious metaphors) and in effect said to the little girl, "No soup for you!"

Hey, its all cool. She now she can live a sinful life with reckless sex, drugs and shooting bitches and pimps, and on her last days, down a wheat wafer, be filled with the Christ and die, from him no less.
Death by Christ, now that's a movie title. Somebody get me Mel.

 

[ManDudeChild]

So she already had her first communion with a rice wafer, and what's at issue is whether or not the church says it "counted" as a sacrament? So I guess the church's argument would be that because the the wafer lacked the requisite gluten, the wafer did not transform into the Body of Christ during the consecration. Which would imply that God/Jesus, the source of all miracles, looked down on this ceremony where this sweet little girl eagerly awaited to partake in the sacrament, and He checked out the molecular content of the host, decided it didn't look "kosher" (to mix religious metaphors) and in effect said to the little girl, "No soup for you!"

 

[Minotauro]

Man, I wish I was biologically incapable of accepting communion. Those crackers taste like shit and I don't think the priests wash their hands.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

the little wafers aren't ACTUALLY the body of christ. Give her a fucking tictac or a cheerio, have the priest bless it or whatever, and its the same shit. Stupid church.

 

[Matlock]

What, she's too good to eat Jesus?

 

[DSN2K]

Im so pleased I grew up and stopped believing this shit.

 

[yoshifumi]

I'm actually on the side of the church for this one.
Mostly because I hate little kids with weird ass diseases.

hahahahahaha

 

[Lathentar]

the little wafers aren't ACTUALLY the body of christ. Give her a fucking tictac or a cheerio, have the priest bless it or whatever, and its the same shit. Stupid church.

Actually, they are suppose to transform into the body of Christ after they enter the body.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

What, she's too good to eat Jesus?

LOL

 

[tedtropy]

I think Catholicism takes the symbolism represented in the Bible abit too literally sometimes. The wafer and wine are just used as representations. Communion could consist of a Snickers and a Coke so long as what the objects represent is understood. Stop taking things so seriously, the J-man would want it that way...

 

[Nerevar]

I think Catholicism takes the symbolism represented in the Bible abit too literally sometimes. The wafer and wine are just used as representations. Communion could consist of a Snickers and a Coke so long as what the objects represent is understood. Stop taking things so seriously, the J-man would want it that way...

Well, considering literal transubstantiation is widely regarded as a pillar of the Catholic faith, I don't think most would agree with you.


In case you're unaware, that means they literally believe the bread and water BECOME Jesus's flesh and blood. Therefore, to them, not taking the right ingredients is basically like not taking communion at all.


Of course, any rational person realizes how idiotic this is, but then again, no one ever accused the Catholic hierarchy of being rational.

Edit: I'd also like to add that it's shit like this that has caused the membership in the Catholic Church to fall by over 50% in some parts of the world. It's run by a group of fundamentalist zealots who just don't get it.

 

[Loki]

the little wafers aren't ACTUALLY the body of christ. Give her a fucking tictac or a cheerio, have the priest bless it or whatever, and its the same shit. Stupid church.

Well, though that's somewhat of an insensitive way to phrase it, it's actually true:


The Catholic Eucharist is doctrinally held to be the actual body of Christ via the process of transubstantiation, where the body of Christ, by virtue of the priest's orisons, is believed to indwell the Communion wafer. So, technically, that phenomenon should be able to occur for any substance, unless there is some obscure biblical passage which requires that the Eucharist be composed of a certain percentage of wheat...which I doubt. More than likely, this whole "it's gotta be wheat" issue is not so much biblically-based as canonically-based; if there's one thing the Catholic church knows, it's doctrine.


EDIT: Nerevar beat me to it.

 

[Hitokage]

The worst image that comes out of this is the idea that while Jesus will accept lepers, the blind, and the downtrodden with warm welcome, if you're got celiac sprue disease, then you're fucked.

I don't think the Catholic church wants to promote that. Then again, maybe they do. I can't really speak for them.

 

[Kuroyume]

That's a pretty shameful thing for the Catholic church to do... disgusting -_-

 

[White Man]

Off topic, but:

orisons

You win the word of the day award. I like that word. I'm adding it to the arsenal.

 

[tedtropy]

I suppose the message the Catholic church is portraying here is "sorry little girl, Jesus doesn't love you because you're a little freak". I suspect Christ wouldn't mind bending the rules a little for a young girl who simply wants to participate in the church, but no, we gotta whip out the rule book...

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

lepercy = ok!
celiac sprue = no way!


That dosen't seem to jive. Wasn't Lepercy the AIDS of it's day?

 

[Loki]

I suppose the message the Catholic church is portraying here is "sorry little girl, Jesus doesn't love you because you're a little freak". I suspect Christ wouldn't mind bending the rules a little for a young girl who simply wants to participate in the church, but no, we gotta whip out the rule book...

Well, though I'm sure that the Catholic Church wouldn't explicitly say something so callous, you're correct to assume that most thinking people would agree that that's the message it's sending; this is why many people have fled from the Catholic church and ran to various Protestant sects, which tend to be less ritualistic (if not less dogmatic, as I'm sure atheists will attest to ). Adherence to seemingly arbitrary rules and rituals should have died out with the New Testament, but alas, it seems that many people missed Jesus' actual message. Catholic ritualism is more similar to Old Testament Judaism in that regard than to the other Christian denominations.


Note: This is not a Catholic-bashing post. I was raised Catholic and received all the sacraments (well, besides marriage ). Somewhere along the line, however, my own thoughts on faith started to run counter to what I saw being espoused by the Catholic church in terms of rituals and rites. Still, any faith in the Lord is better than no faith, I say. I'm still a Christian...I just don't consider myself a Catholic anymore.

 

[Dilbert]

One other point:

"This is a church rule, not God's will, and it can easily be adjusted to meet the needs of the people, while staying true to the traditions of our faith," she wrote in a letter to the Vatican.

In Catholicism, the Pope is considered to be infallible on matters of doctrine because of divine inspiration. So, technically speaking, the rule IS God's will.

Screwy, yes...but that's the rule.

 

[pops619]

I just want to point out that this isn't the entire Catholic Church denying this girl. This is one single diocese. Personally, I think this particular diocese is being unreasonable, but that doesn't mean the entire church would act this way. I'd assume that if it did go to the Pope, this decision wouldn't hold up.

 

[Loki]

Very true, -jinx-. The purported "infallibility" of the Pope on doctrinal matters strikes me (and most) as illogical; its ultimate result is to unduly apotheosize the Pope, putting him somewhat on the level of God-- that's heresy in my book.


Heh, every time I see the word "lepercy", I keep thinking that it's a skin disease endemic to Gramercy Park, NY.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Very true, -jinx-. The purported "infallibility" of the Pope on doctrinal matters strikes me (and most) as illogical; its ultimate result is to unduly apotheosize the Pope, putting him somewhat on the level of God-- that's heresy in my book.


Heh, every time I see the word "lepercy", I keep thinking that it's a skin disease endemic to Gramercy Park, NY.

thats the problem. You aren't supposed to have any "false gods" or idols, yet so many catholics treat these symbols like the Pope or a friggin piece of bread as if it is God itself. Its like they're missing the piont.

 

[Dilbert]

Very true, -jinx-. The purported "infallibility" of the Pope on doctrinal matters strikes me (and most) as illogical; its ultimate result is to unduly apotheosize the Pope, putting him somewhat on the level of God-- that's heresy in my book.

Well, the REALLY funny thing is that -- if you follow the logic to its conclusion -- the Pope should never be able to change his (or is it "His?") mind on matters of doctrine.

 

[Bregor]

IIRC, the Catholic church considers the Pope's authority to be descended directly from the Disciples of Jesus.

 

[Loki]

Well, the REALLY funny thing is that -- if you follow the logic to its conclusion -- the Pope should never be able to change his (or is it "His?") mind on matters of doctrine.

Hah, also very true. We can't very well have a God who's given to such vacillating whimsy now, can we? However, various Papal Bulls and other canonical pronunciamentos would seem to indicate that the Pope does, at times, succumb to the caprices of the moment. TSC TSC.

 

[Lucky Forward]

“There is nothing new under the sun.” Ecclesiastes 1:9

The same issue came up in Boston in 2001...

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_15_37/ai_70926886

Cardinal Bernard Law, Boston archbishop, explained the church's rule in a letter to the Richardsons dated Oct. 29. "The law of the church is extremely explicit regarding bread and wine used for the eucharistic celebration. In keeping with the Last Supper narrative found in the gospels, the bread must be made of wheat alone. Anything else would be an invalid matter and thus would not be the Eucharist."

I'm sure Cardinal Bernard Law knows what's best for the children.

 

[Seth C]

That's the Catholic church for you. Someone show me in the Bible where it says the bread needs wheat. Go on, go for it! It just says "unleavened bread." So, it can't have yeast. Doesn't say anything about wheat.

 

[Mike Works]

That'd be pretty funny if she went to hell.

Also, waiting for the first person to refuse Communion in order to maintain Atkins diet.

 

[miyuru]

Religion isn't a stupid idea. Just the people who follow it this much portray it as stupid.

Idiots.

 

[Archaix]

The catholic church is actively trying to incite my hatred now, aren't they?

 

[Loki]

That'd be pretty funny if she went to hell.

Also, waiting for the first person to refuse Communion in order to maintain Atkins diet.

lol

Oh yeah, totally unrelated, but what ever happened to "Azrael" from the old boards? Does he still post under a different nick?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

This seems as good an excuse as any to post this haiku I wrote a few years back

Why should I eat this?
It's transubstantiation!
Jesus in your tract.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Considering the wafer is nothing but a substitute for what's supposed to be "the body of christ", they should just stfu and let her be considering they aren't actually consuming his remains either.

 

[MrPing1000]

silly catholics being silly again

 

[Archaix]

Considering the wafer is nothing but a substitute for what's supposed to be "the body of christ", they should just stfu and let her be considering they aren't actually consuming his remains either.

Once again, their belief is that the wafer is the body of christ. Or, at least it becomes the body of christ after they put it in their mouth.


...

silly catholics being silly again

 

[Mermandala]

Wafer gets eaten - Jesus magic-chango - Jesus parts digested? - Poop out Jesus? Flush.

I'm lost.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

That could be, you know when I was going through the whole catholic thing when I realised I didn't believe most of thier ways, the whole communion idea, the confessing to another man thing, praying to mary and the rest, the idea of a pope, etc etc.

Personally I've always looked at it as recreating the faith of trusting him back from that point, but it could be that's how they want to teach it, really it's been so long ago I don't remember exactely how that's looked upon.

 

[Warm Machine]

Alright! Born and cursed by God to go straight to hell!

Ah shit, they'll spin this so that she was made by God...so as a test of her faith she is forced to eat wheat and die so she can live in heaven eternally with the angels. If she declines the wheat she gets to live a happy yet sinful life on earth but must boil in hell for eternity because she had no faith.

Sort of like the logic that states...

If she weighed the same as a duck... she's made of wood.

Who are we to question God's will after all, its God's.

 

[MrPing1000]

Peter: I'm looking for some toilet training books.
Salesman: We have the popular 'everybody poops", or the less popular 'nobody poops but you'.
Peter: Well, you see, we're catholic...
Salesman: Ah, then you'll want 'you're a naughty, naughty boy, and that's concentrated evil coming out the back of you'.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Peter: I'm looking for some toilet training books.
Salesman: We have the popular 'everybody poops", or the less popular 'nobody poops but you'.
Peter: Well, you see, we're catholic...
Salesman: Ah, then you'll want 'you're a naughty, naughty boy, and that's concentrated evil coming out the back of you'.

More appropriate to this situation would be

Peter: Is this really the blood of Christ?
Priest: Yes it is.
Peter: Wow, that guy must've been wasted 24/7!

(wording approximate; a Google search turned up a dozen slight variations)