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98th Anniversary of the Armenian Genocide (WARNING: DISTRESSING PHOTOS)

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Jasper

Member
Today marks the 98th Anniversary of the Armenian Genocide.

The Armenian Genocide was the Ottoman Empire's (now Turkey) government's systematic extermination of its minority Armenian population from the Armenian's historical homeland in the territory that is present day Turkey.

It took place during World War I and was comprised of the killing of the able-bodied male population through massacre and forced labor, and the deportation of women, children, the elderly and disabled on death marches to the Syrian Desert.

The total number of Armenians killed as a result of the Armenian Genocide has been estimated at between 1 and 1.5 million.

It is acknowledged to have been one of the first modern genocides, as scholars point to the organized manner in which the killings were carried out to eliminate the Armenians, and it is the second most-studied case of genocide after the Holocaust. The word "genocide" was created by Raphael Lemkin in order to describe what had happened to the Armenians.

The starting date of the genocide is held to be April 24, 1915, the day when Ottoman authorities arrested some 250 Armenian intellectuals and community leaders in Constantinople. Thereafter, the Ottoman military uprooted Armenians from their homes and forced them to march for hundreds of miles towards extermination camps, depriving them of food and water, to the desert of what is now Syria. Massacres were indiscriminate of age or gender, with rape and other sexual abuse commonplace.

Examples of forms of torture and murder included mass burnings, mass drownings, mass death marches, and use of poison/drug overdoses for in particular children including morphine overdose, toxic gas, and typhoid inoculation.

Turkey, the successor state of the Ottoman Empire, denies the word genocide is an accurate description of the events. In recent years, it has faced repeated calls to accept the events as genocide. To date, twenty countries including France, Canada, Russia & Switzerland have officially recognized the events of the period as genocide, and most genocide scholars and historians accept that it was indeed a genocide.

You will find below photos of the events of the Armenian Genocide. You may find some photos DISTURBING, but what I have posted below is in fact extremely tame compared to other photos which show Armenians during the genocide being crucified to crosses, beheaded, and babies being dismembered using contraptions to cut them in half.

Note that torture against the Armenians by the Turks during the genocide was prevalent & encouraged by the Ottoman government.

In a New York Times communiqué filed on November 12, 1916, the German Consul at Mosul “had in many places seen such quantities of chopped-off hands of little children that the streets might have been paved with them.” Armenians “had their eyebrows plucked out, their breasts cut off, their nails torn off; their torturers hew off their feet or else hammer nails into them just as they do in shoeing horses.” Citing a witness, Samuel Bartlett of Toronto, the New York Times continued, “the Turks also took all the babies in the town and threw them into the river until it overflowed its banks. They let out the priests, put red-hot iron shoes on their feet, tied them to wagons and forced them to walk long distances.” Summarizing the execution plan of the genocide, Colonel Hawker (New York Times, June 7, 1919) states: “The Turkish plan was to take all the able-bodied men from the community and tie them up. Then they would torture them by cutting their flesh and burning their wounds. Finally, they would cut off their heads in the presence of the wives and children of the victims. The old men, women and children were [then] herded together and driven from place to place.” Ambassador Morgenthau reflects on the perpetrator psychology behind these atrocities that “the basic fact underlying the Turkish mentality is its utter contempt for all other races … [There is] a total disregard for human life and an intense delight in inflicting physical suffering.” Morgenthau concludes soberly that a “fairly insane pride is the element that largely explains [this behavior].

After a review of thousands of pages of accounts, five characteristics of the Armenian genocide stand out:

- Sexual atrocities and bodily mutilation were integral to the genocidal process.

- Turks competed with pride to develop the most diabolical methods of torture (i.e., horseshoeing men; mutilation of ear, nose and eyes; women’s severed breasts and nipples collected for display; stuffing steel wool up a man’s anus and into his penis; progressive dismemberment of victim limbs).

- Intimate tortures and prolonged deaths were the preferred approach.

- Family members were, wherever possible, required to witness atrocities.
Methods of degradation were, wherever possible, designed to maximize perpetrator amusement.



There have been many documentaries and films about the Armenian Genocide, including a PBS documentary narrated by Natalie Portman, Orlando Bloom, Jared Leto, and Julianna Margulies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF71ruYqJxM).

I will end with a quote by Adolf Hitler, who many historians believe was inspired by the Armenian Genocide.

I have issued the command — and I'll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad — that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formations in readiness — for the present only in the East — with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?

Adolf Hitler - August 22, 1939



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harSon

Banned
Are Assyrians a part of this genocide? I have a ton of Assyrian friends, and noticed that a lot of them had facebook posts having to do with Turkey this morning as well.
 

Jasper

Member
Are Assyrians a part of this genocide? I have a ton of Assyrian friends, and noticed that a lot of them had facebook posts having to do with Turkey this morning as well.

Nope, that's the Assyrian Genocide in which 270,000 - 750,000 Assyrians were killed by the Turks.

There is also the Greek Genocide in which 750,000–900,000 Greeks were killed by the Turks.

Though separate genocides, they did all occur around the same period.
 

Jasper

Member
Babies cut in half? The fucking fuck.

Yes, very disturbing.

The photo caption reads "Armenian Children from Adana, from whose bodies’ pieces of flesh were ripped off with cotton hooks and whose kneecaps were severed."

I was reluctant to post any of the seriously horrific photos as not to upset some members.
 

ymmv

Banned
What lead the leadership to desire the extermination of this minority group? What possible purpose did they believe it would serve?

So Turkey would be a country without any bothersome foreign ethnicities. (The irony is of course that the Turks live in a where they were the foreign rulers originally).
 

Carlisle

Member
I feel terrible that this is the first I've heard of it after 29 years. Too many similarities with the Holocaust--that Hitler quote with the famous Santayana quote go eerily well together here.

"Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?"

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
I'm genuinely embarrassed at my total lack of knowledge regarding this atrocity. I will read and I will learn, thanks for creating the thread.
 

Bombadil

Banned
Another reason why Obama is a fucking liar.

Edit: He promised to acknowledge the genocide on a federal level.

He backed out on the promise when Turkey threatened to close of their airspace to US military if he did.

In two years, the statute of limitations will end, and Turkey won't give a shit anymore about who recognizes it. No more fear of having to pay reparations.

They also stole Mount Ararat from the Armenian territory.
 

Cheebo

Banned
It baffles me the modern day turkey government still refuses to admit this happen. It's like if current day Germany refused to admit the holocause happen.
 

Dyno

Member
Stomach turning descriptions.

What I cannot comprehend is the torture and butchery, of gaining some kind of satisfaction by inflicting horror and misery on others.
 

Arksy

Member
It baffles me the modern day turkey government still refuses to admit this happen. It's like if current day Germany refused to admit the holocause happen.

They're not denying it happened, they're denying the label of the incident as a genocide. They acknowledge that a lot of Armenians died, but also that a lot of Turks died due to inter-ethnic violence.
 

Bombadil

Banned
I am depressed by how many gaffers do not know about this.

Every April 24 the streets of Glendale, California are rife with Armenian flags hanging off car windows and today there will be a protest at the Turkish consulate (I think that's what it's called).

Hitler was right. Who now remembers the Armenian genocide? A couple more years and it won't matter, and a few more after that and even the Armenians won't care anymore. We're taught about this event at a young age and told not to forget it.

The Turks during that time period wanted to extinguish the Armenian people, so all the survivors of that event, like my grandfather, would always tell their children to never forget the language and the history because if they did, then the Turks would win. And they're winning.
 

Bombadil

Banned
Except they're not. They recognise the extent of the killings, they're just denying that it falls within the legal definition of a genocide.

The Turkish government was found to be sending out DVDs in their version of the TIME magazine (if I remember correctly) that denied the Armenian Genocide.

Look at those photographs in the OP and tell me that the Turkish government is right in calling it anything other than a genocide. They claim it was an equal conflict between Armenian soldiers and Ottoman soldiers.
 
Turkey should never be allowed in the EU until they recognize the Armenian Genocide :mad:

Turkey is a completely different socially politically and religiously than it was 98 years
ago. Turkeys revisions of upheavel has happened 3 times over, who from turkey will apologize now? It was a part of the then corrupted ottoman empire but modern turkey has no bearings on that turkey.
 

Arksy

Member
Another reason why Obama is a fucking liar.

Edit: He promised to acknowledge the genocide on a federal level.

He backed out on the promise when Turkey threatened to close of their airspace to US military if he did.

In two years, the statute of limitations will end, and Turkey won't give a shit anymore about who recognizes it. No more fear of having to pay reparations.

They also stole Mount Ararat from the Armenian territory.

What are you talking about? There's no statute of limitations for genocide and most crimes against humanity.
 

Aurongel

Member
Thank you for posting this OP, it's a very sad but interesting read. Shame that pubic schools these days stress the existence of only one holocaust and give it the singular label of "THE Holocaust". I remember when AP teachers in highschool would introduce students to the history of Darfur and Armenia and the legitimately bright students would be confused by the idea that "holocaust" is a term that spans many, many events and isn't tied solely to Germany in the 40's.
 
I knew about this, but not as much as I do now.

Per WIKI:

Typhoid inoculation: The Ottoman surgeon, Dr. Haydar Cemal wrote "on the order of the Chief Sanitation Office of the Third Army in January 1916, when the spread of typhus was an acute problem, innocent Armenians slated for deportation at Erzican were inoculated with the blood of typhoid fever patients without rendering that blood 'inactive'".[57][58] Jeremy Hugh Baron writes: "Individual doctors were directly involved in the massacres, having poisoned infants, killed children and issued false certificates of death from natural causes. Nazim's brother-in-law Dr. Tevfik Rushdu, Inspector-General of Health Services, organized the disposal of Armenian corpses with thousands of kilos of lime over six months; he became foreign secretary from 1925 to 1938

Jesus ....
 

Cyan

Banned
What are you talking about? There's no statute of limitations for genocide and most crimes against humanity.

I'm somewhat confused about this myself. Under what jurisdiction would this statute of limitations fall?

Thank you for posting this OP, it's a very sad but interesting read. Shame that pubic schools these days stress the existence of only one holocaust and give it the singular label of "THE Holocaust". I remember when AP teachers in highschool would introduce students to the history of Darfur and Armenia and the legitimately bright students would be confused by the idea that "holocaust" is a term that spans many, many events and isn't tied solely to Germany in the 40's.

You mean "genocide"? As far as I know, the Holocaust is singular and is in fact tied solely to Germany in the 40s.
 

Arksy

Member
We had a protest of 500-750 people at Ottawa outside the Turkish embassy. Lots of Armenian and Turkish people, lots of Armenian and Turkish flags. Many coming in on tour busses. Canada does recognize the Armenian Genocide.

The argument as to whether this constitutes genocide seems far more fierce between Turkish and Armenian diaspora, as opposed to the Turkish and Armenian state. The two states have been steadily improving relations since the mid 1990s.
 

Bombadil

Banned
Turkey is a completely different socially politically and religiously than it was 98 years
ago. Turkeys revisions of upheavel has happened 3 times over, who from turkey will apologize now? It was a part of the then corrupted ottoman empire but modern turkey has no bearings on that turkey.

If this is so, then why did the government of Turkey threaten the US with airspace restrictions? Why did the government disseminate material that denied the Genocide or warped the event?

What are you talking about? There's no statute of limitations for genocide and most crimes against humanity.

http://massispost.com/archives/5191

There are in some countries and states. I'm looking for them now. However, assuming I'm wrong, I will concede this point. I still believe that as more time passes between the events and recognition of the event, the more harm will be done in regards to reparations. There may not be a statute of limitations on recognizing genocide, but I think there may be a statute of limitations on the recovery of land and property.
 

Arksy

Member
I'm somewhat confused about this myself. Under what jurisdiction would this statute of limitations fall?

Article 2 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court defines the crime of genocide. This is the most modern conception of the crime, other forms exist in previous conventions and it's widely considered to be a jus cogens norm. That means that it's absolutely proscribed and binds every one. (Other examples include Slavery, Territorial Aggrandisement and more controversially Torture). Any of these peremptory norms can be prosecuted by anyone and therefore jurisdiction for these crimes is universal. Every state has standing.

Article 29 of the ICC statute states that crimes within the jurisdiction of the ICC shall not be subject to any statutes of limitations.

While this only applies in the ICC treaty, the principle that no statute of limitations apply to breaches of jus cogens norms and crimes against humanity easily falls within the domain of customary international law. There is plenty of state practice and opinio juris to back it up.
 

Bombadil

Banned
Article 2 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court defines the crime of genocide. This is the most modern conception of the crime, other forms exist in previous conventions and it's widely considered to be a jus cogens norm.

Article 29 of the ICC statute states that crimes within the jurisdiction of the ICC shall not be subject to any statutes of limitations.

While this only applies in the ICC treaty, the principle that no statute of limitations apply to breaches of jus cogens norms and crimes against humanity easily falls within the domain of customary international law. There is plenty of state practice and opinio juris to back it up.

Is there a statute of limitations on the recovery of land/territory?
 

Arksy

Member
Is there a statute of limitations on the recovery of land/territory?

Most of the laws regarding conquest are prospective, meaning that they only started to apply as the conventions were signed over the last hundred years. Armenia has no claim to any Turkish territory unless done through a bi-lateral treaty. As the Ottomon Empire was broken up using the principle of uti possidetis juris, it means that when Turkey claimed independence, it kept its borders intact. This principle explains why the Kurds lost out on any territory.
 

jred2k

Member
I've been introduced to the Genocide and the fact that it happened for a long time because of System of a Down. Had no idea of some of the details posted in the OP, though. Those pictures are pretty staggering.
 

Arksy

Member
There are in some countries and states. I'm looking for them now. However, assuming I'm wrong, I will concede this point. I still believe that as more time passes between the events and recognition of the event, the more harm will be done in regards to reparations. There may not be a statute of limitations on recognizing genocide, but I think there may be a statute of limitations on the recovery of land and property.

That's regarding insurance claims made by Armenians against American insurance companies. It's a civil law matter between an insurer and the descendants of insurance policy holders. Different matter entirely.
 
My mind can't fathom how people could have done this on such a large, organized manner. It's so horrific what humans are capable of in their worst state.
 

Bombadil

Banned
That's regarding insurance claims made by Armenians against American insurance companies. It's a civil law matter between an insurer and the descendants of insurance policy holders. Different matter entirely.

Okay.

It's just that I've been hearing about this from other Armenians for years. I am one myself, and I just trusted that they were right about the statute of limitations thing.
 

Fury Sense

Member
I never knew this happened. I know there's a lot I don't know, but had no idea I was missing something this huge and this recent.
 
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