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999 SPOILERS Discussion Thread

ShockingAlberto said:
I thought about this, too, but there are several problems.

One, like you said, Cap would have access to an axe, but getting the knife would be difficult. Had he used an axe to kill them, the scene would have been way different. Every time Junpei chooses Door 4, Ace picks up the pocket knife from Mr. 9's corpse. Cap somehow getting the pocket knife from a giant who is more than willing to kill him at a moment's notice while he's in a drug addled state seems...unlikely.

Second, everyone would be on guard with someone they've never seen before. He would have been wearing the Zero bracelet, Santa and June would have immediately known who he was, Ace wouldn't be able to tell but would be able to see the bracelet, and Clover would have thought Cap killed her brother. He would have had to have gotten the drop on at least three of them and killed them in quick succession, something that seems unlikely when he didn't even have the knife. Ace could quickly kill Santa and Clover before June noticed, a fifth person coming in and quickly killing three others and going after June doesn't make sense.

Third, June fled through the Jupiter (?) door and the killer followed behind her. The killer stabbed her, but she had not been bleeding for long when Junpei found her. Junpei, Lotus, and Seven followed an empty hallway through the Jupiter door to the submarine. Lotus and Seven waited outside the room June had been stabbed. So let's map this out here:

Grand staircase -|Jupiter|----Hallway----Room Before Sub|Dead June Room

Let's say Cap did it. He started at the Grand Staircase and killed three people quickly, then he chased June through the Jupiter door (again, not sure it was that symbol, but bear with me), through the empty hallway, through the room, in to the Submarine room where he stabbed her. Then, Junpei and crew follow the exact same path with no evidence of blood trails or anything and find June in the final room. After a few minutes with June, Junpei returns to the room outside where Lotus and Seven had been stabbed.

So assuming it was Cap, where could he have hidden? He couldn't have been in the sub room and left there to stab Lotus and Seven because Junpei would have noticed. They would have seen him in the grand staircase because, among other things, he had no reason to think another group was coming and there was nowhere there to hide.

Now, assuming Ace did it, he had the one place you could hide and commit these murders: in plain sight. He stabbed Santa and Clover, chased June to the Sub room, stabbed her, then faked his death on the grand staircase. After which, he stabbed Lotus and Seven by following them through the hallway, waited for Junpei in his addled state after being Seven and Lotus dead, and stabbed him above the sub.

There's also the fact that, if no one went through Cap's room, his doors were still locked since no one opened the pocketwatch door and no one opened the Base Ten door. If someone did go through his room, it would be in Ace's path, and Ace would have killed him.

It was the Sun door that June fled through, IIRC.

In addition to all of this, there's the fact that Cap (Musashidou) stealing Lotus' bracelet specifically and no one else's would make absolutely no sense, whereas Ace taking it (just like when it was gone in the knife ending, his need for it implied again when he escorted Lotus off to "show her something" in the axe ending, and the need for it placed front and center when he took her hostage in the safe ending) makes perfect sense. What actually happened was indeed far simpler than an extra player somehow escaping from a place he couldn't escape in the first place to kill them with a weapon he didn't have.

The killer in the sub ending was without a doubt Ace.
 
Yes, it's completely Ace and the clues are all there.

We should compile a list of who killed who and when in which ending. So far, all of them have Ace kill Cap, and then:

Sub ending: Ace plays dead after killing Clover and Santa. (Why does he do this, though?) Anyways, he likely stabbed June but she manages to run away. Junpei and crew run up, so he plays dead.

Junpei, in fear, runs ahead and through the door, leaving Seven and Lotus behind. Ace sneaks up and probably backstabs Seven first. If Seven is in on it, he's probably starting to panic as things are going badly, so he may not have noticed Ace's attack. Lotus goes next. Ace hides from Junpei when he comes back to see the bodies, then stabs him last. Ace lives and presumably would escape in this timeline.

Axe ending: We only see that Clover killed Seven, Santa and June (and Junpei). We don't know if she caught up to Ace and Lotus. It's quite likely that Ace managed to overpower Lotus and escape, as they were gone for a long time. In other words, so far the "bad" endings involve Ace possibly escaping.

Knife ending: Ace kills Lotus when she's alone. When Junpei finds the body, he kills him too and then walks into the elevator with Lotus' bracelet. He doesn't need to kill the rest, he can just escape through 9 on his own. Another Bad End that has Ace escape.
 
The killer of the submarine end is explained in the answers as is an explanation of the woman on the side of the road at the end mwahaha
 
Akselziys said:
The killer of the submarine end is explained in the answers as is an explanation of the woman on the side of the road at the end mwahaha
WHAT THE FFUUUUUUUUUUU

The Q&A is going to be mindblowing.
 
I just got the True Ending tonight and holy crap, the last part was unbelievable. I just read through each post of this thread and can't wait for the Q&A! =D
 
Big Papa Husker said:
I just got the True Ending tonight and holy crap, the last part was unbelievable. I just read through each post of this thread and can't wait for the Q&A! =D

Welcome to the spoilers thread! You graduated! :D
 
Akselziys said:
The killer of the submarine end is explained in the answers as is an explanation of the woman on the side of the road at the end mwahaha

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You know, I just had a thought:

If young Akane was the narrator the whole time, holy SHIT did she go into some gory detail on those corpses. I remember something like "Yellow globules of glistening fat dripped from the walls, its stench mixing with the blood and entrails of the recently departed."
 
Akselziys said:
The killer of the submarine end is explained in the answers as is an explanation of the woman on the side of the road at the end mwahaha
@_______________________________________________________________@
 
Feep said:
You know, I just had a thought:

If young Akane was the narrator the whole time, holy SHIT did she go into some gory detail on those corpses. I remember something like "Yellow globules of glistening fat dripped from the walls, its stench mixing with the blood and entrails of the recently departed."

Yeah, this hit me a couple days after finishing the game. Any shred of innocence she had left after that ordeal probably went down the drain. Ironic since that was kind of her own fault for setting up the game that way. Surely there's a way to do that without traumatizing your 12 year old self (though she was probably already traumatized).
 
cosmicblizzard said:
Yeah, this hit me a couple days after finishing the game. Any shred of innocence she had left after that ordeal probably went down the drain. Ironic since that was kind of her own fault for setting up the game that way. Surely there's a way to do that without traumatizing your 12 year old self (though she was probably already traumatized).

That's also extrapolated upon in the answers :D
 
Feep said:
You know, I just had a thought:

If young Akane was the narrator the whole time, holy SHIT did she go into some gory detail on those corpses. I remember something like "Yellow globules of glistening fat dripped from the walls, its stench mixing with the blood and entrails of the recently departed."
It also puts some things in to perspective, like her visceral reactions to the bodies. She wasn't really acting those ways, she was faking it to get Junpei to connect to her.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
It also puts some things in to perspective, like her visceral reactions to the bodies. She wasn't really acting those ways, she was faking it to get Junpei to connect to her.
Or maybe she's just a guro fangirl.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
It also puts some things in to perspective, like her visceral reactions to the bodies. She wasn't really acting those ways, she was faking it to get Junpei to connect to her.

I had gotten to thinking about this a while back as well.

Korigama said:
2./To be honest, I do wonder to what degree Akane's reactions were genuine. Considering the fact that the purpose of the Nonary Game was to allow for all participants to potentially survive, it doesn't seem like manipulating Ace to cause the deaths of the 9th Man, Nijisaki, or Musashidou was necessarily what she wanted so much as alterations to the plan by Aoi to insure that the game would conclude and she would be saved. I suppose the idea of her faking horror at the gruesome sights of what happened to the 9th Man and Nijisaki just bothers me (true identity as Zero or not, it just doesn't seem like her).

So yeah, I'm looking forward to the answer to that in particular.
 
I'm guessing the info will get posted on Monday, otherwise people would have to get paid for doing work on weekends even if it was ready to go. ;P
 
at the very end it implies that there were never detonators on the bracelets? what's up with that?
 
Rez said:
at the very end it implies that there were never detonators on the bracelets? what's up with that?
Yea, it was done to scare them. They only implanted the bombs with the Cradle guys.
 
Rez said:
at the very end it implies that there were never detonators on the bracelets? what's up with that?
The only person who actually had a bomb inside him was the Ninth man. And maybe Ace. But the rest had to think they were in real danger.

And I'm still in the camp that says that the ninth man had to die. June saw the future. She saw how everything played out, and the ninth man had to die in order to save her, in order for the correct timeline to play out.
 
Rez said:
at the very end it implies that there were never detonators on the bracelets? what's up with that?

There were detonators in the bracelets of those responsible for the original Nonary game -- the 9th Man and Ace (and the other 2). June/Santa were erring on the side of caution, not wanting to have somebody accidentally blow up one of the innocents playing the game. Going by the letter in the safe, you can see that part of Zero's intent was to get the original perpetrators to confess/atone, or they would die.
 
edit: whoa, thanks for the answers guys.

also, who dressed up the right-hand man as Snake? Were they counting on Ace finding him and killing him? seems kind of convenient.
 
The_Technomancer said:
The only person who actually had a bomb inside him was the Ninth man. And maybe Ace. But the rest had to think they were in real danger.

And I'm still in the camp that says that the ninth man had to die. June saw the future. She saw how everything played out, and the ninth man had to die in order to save her, in order for the correct timeline to play out.
Fake Snake had it too.
 
Rez said:
at the very end it implies that there were never detonators on the bracelets? what's up with that?
Zero didn't actually want to kill anyone, but gave them the Cradle guys a chance to live (or an opportunity for Ace to kill them as it turns out).

But they still had to think the chance of death was real so Akane could reach Junpei for the puzzles.

It makes you wonder how differently things would have gone if Mr. 9 said no to Ace or if Ace convinced someone else to try.
 
Rez said:
also, who dressed up the right-hand man as Snake? Were they counting on Ace finding him and killing him? seems kind of convenient.

Santa is I think the primary guess there, along with possibly Seven -- who were obviously both in on it.

They obviously knew Ace had propagnosia, and figured that since Ace killed the 9th Man, he'd probably be after whoever he remembered from the first game -- Snake being one of them.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Zero didn't actually want to kill anyone, but gave them the Cradle guys a chance to live (or an opportunity for Ace to kill them as it turns out).

But they still had to think the chance of death was real so Akane could reach Junpei for the puzzles.

It makes you wonder how differently things would have gone if Mr. 9 said no to Ace or if Ace convinced someone else to try.
Pretty sure Akane would have died then. Or rather, the entire time-loop wouldn't have worked/would have collapsed/whatever.
IMO one of the strongest portions of this story is how powerless everyone ultimately is. If she's going to live, things have to play out in that fashion. That's how I see it.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
It makes you wonder how differently things would have gone if Mr. 9 said no to Ace or if Ace convinced someone else to try.
yeah, that's my obvious problem with these explanations. it seems like a pointless story-device, I think Zero and Santa could have been, by the game's own twisted logic, somewhat morally justified in planting bombs on all of them.
 
Rez said:
yeah, that's my obvious problem with these explanations. it seems like a pointless story-device, I think Zero and Santa could have been, by the game's own twisted logic, somewhat morally justified in planting bombs on all of them.
Makes me wish for a sidecomic that details the plan from beginning to end. I hope the Q&A answers that.
 
Akselziys said:
The killer of the submarine end is explained in the answers as is an explanation of the woman on the side of the road at the end mwahaha
Akselziys said:
That's also extrapolated upon in the answers :D

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LiK said:
Makes me wish for a sidecomic that details the plan from beginning to end. I hope the Q&A answers that.
I hope peachi ends up doing a quick hiimdaisy comic for it, but she hasn't put up anything in a long while.
 
so I wonder if Ace thought the experiment was a success in the end? the nine years ago one. how did the four of them get out of that blameless? didn't seven specifically say they had linked it to that company?
 
Rez said:
so I wonder if Ace thought the experiment was a success in the end? the nine years ago one. how did the four of them get out of that blameless? didn't seven specifically say they had linked it to that company?

Doubtful. Ace said his hopes for the experiment were that it would yield results allowing him to see faces, but he still had prosopagnosia anyway. No idea how the four members of the Nonary Project committee got away with what they did for that long, though.
 
Korigama said:
Doubtful. Ace said his hopes for the experiment were that it would yield results allowing him to see faces, but he still had prosopagnosia anyway. No idea how the four members of the Nonary Project committee got away with what they did for that long, though.

Friends in high places is my guess.
 
Finally got all the endings yesterday. Mind blowing stuff. Just a question about the True ending. If I understood how things worked, in the Safe ending, Junpei solved the code by himself. Then in the True ending, Junpei shouldn't have known about the password but since Young Akane have seen the Safe path before, she was able to transmit the password to him.
 
survivor said:
Finally got all the endings yesterday. Mind blowing stuff. Just a question about the True ending. If I understood how things worked, in the Safe ending, Junpei solved the code by himself. Then in the True ending, Junpei shouldn't have known about the password but since Young Akane have seen the Safe path before, she was able to transmit the password to him.
Yeah, that's what happened.
 
rocK` said:
Just finished the true ending, I still don't get who the person in the last scene was.. (dressed like Lotus).

It's Alice (ALL-ICE), not Lotus -- most likely an ending little joke from the developers to cap off the story.
 
Maybe this has been touched on before, but I didn't think of this. If you take door #6, then that means that Clover, Seven, and Lotus take door #1. Since we know that if Junpei goes through door #1, Ace goes too, and he kills Cap before everyone else gets in that room. So what does this mean about Cap in relation to everyone else, and why did they not say anything about finding a living (or somehow dead?) guy behind the door?
 
Hylian7 said:
Maybe this has been touched on before, but I didn't think of this. If you take door #6, then that means that Clover, Seven, and Lotus take door #1. Since we know that if Junpei goes through door #1, Ace goes too, and he kills Cap before everyone else gets in that room. So what does this mean about Cap in relation to everyone else, and why did they not say anything about finding a living (or somehow dead?) guy behind the door?

That's also touched upon in the answers :D
 
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