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[Dram]

http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/001327.html

A 14 year old boy died on Thursday, November 11th, after having received 85 lashes; according to the ruling of the Mullah judge of the public circuit court in the town of Sanandadj he was guilty of breaking his fast during the month of Ramadan.

The Kurdish site Rojeh´heh Lât reports that the young man´s identity has not been disclosed. He was scheduled for burial on Saturday, November 13th (after 3 days at the local morgue), in the cemetery of Beheshteh Mohammadi in Sanandadj. However due to the public´s realization of the events surrounding the boy´s circumstances the cemetery was stormed [in protest] and his burial did not take place.

According to informed sources, supervisors have instructed that the burial take place in the presence of his closest relatives, surveyed by security forces.

 

[Ecrofirt]

edit: whoa. I just read the article. I'm not even sick enough to joke about that.

So did the storm the cemetary because they were pissed off that the kid broke his fast? The article doesn't make it very clear.

 

[Suerte]

Am I the only one who thinks the world would be a lot better off without religion?

 

[ManDudeChild]

Am I the only one who thinks the world would be a lot better off without religion?

You're not the only one.

 

[xsarien]

Am I the only one who thinks the world would be a lot better off without religion?

No, you're not.

 

[tt_deeb]

Am I the only one who thinks the world would be a lot better off without religion?

No.

This is terrible news.

 

[karasu]

dude if it wasnt religion it would be politics, race, classism, or any other social ill you can think of. People always blame religion, but WWI & WWII weren't fought over religion.

 

[COCKLES]

Caring Islam strikes again!

"..But the majority of Muslims are peaceful people".

And I kinda get the feeling that they stormed the cemetery because the boy broke his fast rather then remorse.

Right...back to watching the Smash Hits! Poll Winners Party. Kylies new single....KYLIE IN SHORT BLUE MINI-SKIRT DRESS!

God bless Western values!

 

[xsarien]

dude if it wasnt religion it would be politics, race, classism, or any other social ill you can think of. People always blame religion, but WWI & WWII weren't fought over religion.

How about the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the 9/11 hijackers? Believing you have a mandate from a higher power - or believing you're acting in the name of said higher power - can push zealots, especially violent ones. It makes them lose respect for any "mortal" authority figures because they believe they only have to answer to God.

Without religion, or at least organized religion - without The Big Invisible Man in the Sky - it'd be harder to convince a lot of people to do these things, and we'd all have a lot more personal responsibility.

Caring Islam strikes again!

"..But the majority of Muslims are peaceful people".

Now that's just a cruel statement. Different cultures have different social norms, and I'd pity any civilization that followed the Bible as literally as Iran does the Koran (apparently, I've never read it so I can't speak with any amount of authority on the issue.) A modern day Muslim would/should/most definitely does have a problem with a kid *dying* as punishment for breaking the fast. You're looking for the Muslim outrage? That's cool, I'm still looking for the Christian outrage over the whole pedophilia thing.

 

[ManDudeChild]

dude if it wasnt religion it would be politics, race, classism, or any other social ill you can think of. People always blame religion, but WWI & WWII weren't fought over religion.

You're right, there will always be a social ill, but that doesn't take away from religion being one of those ills overall. Now that isn't to say all problems would just vanish without religion, but I think we'd be a bit better off without it. It served SOME good in the past, but the good certainly doesn't outweigh all the suffering.

 

[Escape Goat]

religion = good

organized religion = bad alot of the time

 

[Chipopo]

It's a coin toss, really, because without organized religion, without the threat that doing evil shit will buy you a ticket to hell, the classes that feed on religion may be more prone to violence and being nasty little shits in general. The world wouldn't improve if religion were to dissapear. The world will only improve when humans outgrow the need for religion. There IS a difference.

 

[karasu]

How about the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the 9/11 hijackers

really long time ago, and again the equivalent of each of those has been carried out while having nothing to do with religion. It's like saying the world would be better without government. There are a million orthodoxies in this world, and somene has killed for each. Especially for something like Patriotism. Religion isn't the problem, Humanity is. Humans and their innate need to feel superior to someone else. They don't say that absolute power corrupts absolutely for nothing.

 

[Zaptruder]

Nah. You're not looking at the issue correctly.

In this case religion is to blame... causes people to be too zealous over things that don't matter.

But OTOH, religion does give some sort of moral structure to otherwise bastard humanity... which does help out some.

Religion in total has probably done more to help humanity then wound it... but we've reached the point where it's probably going to do more harm if we continue to keep it then if we move beyond it.

 

[karasu]

I wouldnt blame religion myself, because the religion they "practice" doesn't even support this. This is goverment perverting a religion and using it as a weapon. If people believe in something, ANYTHING, you can manipulate them and get them to behave like fucktards. Hitler did it, America did it, it will always be done, religion or not. Like the man said: "The most powerful weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.”

for the record, I'm not religious.

 

[Chrono]

because the religion they "practice" doesn't even support this. This is goverment perverting a religion and using it as a weapon.

uh, how do you know that? There are muslims who believe those kind of lashings are justified and obviously others who don't. Just because one is "nicer" doesn't mean that it actually is what the religion preaches. It's just what you want to believe. I'm not saying it is part of islam (or not), just wondering about your logic here.

 

[karasu]

Because these are shi'ites. The Koran doesn't support punishment for breakin Ramadan, even though if you ARE a Muslim you're suppossed to keep it. But it's between you & God. Not you and the local mob.

 

[Zaptruder]

That may be somewhat true Karasu, but in this case, why the hell would the government sentence the boy to lashings if there wasn't a fast to break?

People will always be assholes. Religion is just another reason to be an asshole. In this case some part of religion caused people to be an asshole.

 

[gofreak]

I just cannot believe this

Humanity can be wretched.

 

[luxsol]

Because these are shi'ites. The Koran doesn't support punishment for breakin Ramadan, even though if you ARE a Muslim you're suppossed to keep it. But it's between you & God. Not you and the local mob.

Please stop speaking about the facts! RELIGIONS IS JSUT BAD!! NO MORE TALK FROM YOU!!! ACCEPT THE MOB RULE!! Religion is the source of all evil!

 

[Chrono]

Please stop speaking about the facts!

What facts? karasu is making things up. He seems to believe he makes sense because the facts he comes up with shed a nice light on some muslims, and so somehow that makes them right (and the opposite view points racist, I'm guessing ).

In the islam practiced by hundreds of millions in iran, saudi arabia, and other countries, there is no such thing as "between you and god." Just like murderers are punished, women who wear revealing clothes are also punished for spreading sin in society and going against god. There is a reason shari'a exists and that's to enforce what muslims believe to be the divine laws allah set. There is no difference between stealing and being a homosexual-- you're both sinners and should be punished.

Of course there are muslims who think otherwise, but i'm talking about the mainstream islam most practice.

 

[luxsol]

What facts? karasu is making things up. He seems to believe he makes sense because the facts he comes up with shed a nice light on some muslims, and so somehow that makes them right (and the opposite view points racist, I'm guessing ).

In the islam practiced by hundreds of millions in iran, saudi arabia, and other countries, there is no such thing as "between you and god." Just like murderers are punished, women who wear revealing clothes are also punished for spreading sin in society and going against god. There is a reason shari'a exists and that's to enforce what muslims believe to be the divine laws allah set. There is no difference between stealing and being a homosexual-- you're both sinners and should be punished.

Of course there are muslims who think otherwise, but i'm talking about the mainstream islam most practice.

But isn't he talking about the certain group who killed the boy? Not muslims as a whole.

 

[Chrono]

But isn't he talking about the certain group who killed the boy? Not muslims as a whole.

The group that killed the boy were official shari'a enforcers or whatever-- not some mob that decided to be righteous. They represent a lot more then themselves.

 

[karasu]

That may be somewhat true Karasu, but in this case, why the hell would the government sentence the boy to lashings if there wasn't a fast to break?

People will always be assholes. Religion is just another reason to be an asshole. In this case some part of religion caused people to be an asshole.

That's completely tautological. I mean yeah , they punsihed him for breakin a religious rule, but that's not to say that their holy book says 'go punish people who don't fast during Ramadan!' . All muslims don't even operate this way. It's way too easy to say that 'this problem exists because they are religious and I am not", when in reality this happened for the same reason shit like this always happens. People in power will abuse that power. It doesn't matter if it's a president or a pope. If someone claims to follow the philosophies and tenents of book, and their horrible actions aren't supported by the philosophy of that book, for god's sake do not blame the book. That's like so called Christians blaming Harry Potter for youth violence. In Sanandadj they'll whip you for being anti-religious, in Singapore they'll whip you for grafftti, in North Korea they'll execute you for being anti goverment. Religion is not the source of this crud. What religion honestl\y supports cruelty like hitting a kid 85 tiimes with god knows what? That's insane.

 

[Phoenix]

Its amazing how people so quickly blame religion and not some of the extremists that practice it. There are idiots and extremists everywhere, there always will be. People brought up the 9/11 hijackers and suck but I can point to the DC snipers, the Oklahoma City bombers, and similar at the same time. Religion isn't the problem - people are.

 

[karasu]

The group that killed the boy were official shari'a enforcers or whatever-- not some mob that decided to be righteous. They represent a lot more then themselves.

The group that killed the boy is a muslim minority. It is not the whole. If it were, you'd hear about shit like this alot more often. Think about it. I didn't make anything up, you're obviously blinded by your hatred of religion, just like these morons were blinded by the idea of being holy & righteous.

 

[Chrono]

The group that killed the boy is a muslim minority. It is not the whole. If it were, you'd hear about shit like this alot more often. Think about it. I didn't make anything up, you're obviously blinded by your hatred of religion, just like these morons were blinded by the idea of being holy & righteous.

They’re not a minority and we don't hear about shit like this because it doesn't get reported. Saudi Arabia stones women to death but we don't hear about it. LASHING is an official punishment in Iran and it happens to thieves, drinkers (alcohol), and many other criminals on a daily basis.

But hey, I’m just blinded by my hatred of islam. HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU KNOW THAT? You don't. You're just a moron who thinks that believing in the good of people equates it to reality and the opposite of that is RACISM because -- GASP -- there are only good people in this world and everything bad is just a tiny, tiny minority.

 

[Chrono]

What religion honestl\y supports cruelty like hitting a kid 85 tiimes with god knows what? That's insane.

By this killer logic, there can't be any bad ideology in this world. Oh wait there can't be any bad religion in this world. After all, HOW COULD X OR Y BE IN RELGIONS? IT'S INSANE.

Fucking wake up. The only arguments against lashings in islam is that times changed and NOT that it's not islam as those were the punishments used during mohammad's time and for a long time after that. But noooo!! It was that guy mohammad that abused his power! YES! abuse of power is the source of all evil! You end up sounding exactly like who you're arguing against ("religion is the source of all evil" which I disagree with).

 

[Kabuki Waq]

By this killer logic, there can't be any bad ideology in this world. Oh wait there can't be any bad religion in this world. After all, HOW COULD X OR Y BE IN RELGIONS? IT'S INSANE.

Fucking wake up. The only arguments against lashings in islam is that times changed and NOT that it's not islam as those were the punishments used during mohammad's time and for a long time after that. But noooo!! It was that guy mohammad that abused his power! YES! abuse of power is the source of all evil! You end up sounding exactly like who you're arguing against ("religion is the source of all evil" which I disagree with).

What the fuck are you talking about ?you dont know anything about Islam. No where in Islam are lashings allowed cause someone broke their fast.

 

[luxsol]

The Quran also states that those who sin and repent or tried their best to follow the law must be forgiven.

Obviously, those stoned/whipped to death weren't given this choice. Course, I see that those women who are stoned for adultery saying they were raped instead of repenting. Following the Quran word for word means they must repent (seems like they're not taking into account those trying their best to follow the law) or will be killed.

 

[karasu]

They’re not a minority and we don't hear about shit like this because it doesn't get reported. Saudi Arabia stones women to death but we don't hear about it. LASHING is an official punishment in Iran and it happens to thieves, drinkers (alcohol), and many other criminals on a daily basis.

But hey, I’m just blinded by my hatred of islam. HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU KNOW THAT? You don't. You're just a moron who thinks that believing in the good of people equates it to reality and the opposite of that is RACISM because -- GASP -- there are only good people in this world and everything bad is just a tiny, tiny minority.

:lol What the shit? I'm not even gonna bother.

 

[0wn3d]

This sickens me. The judge went way too easy on that punk.

 

[DarienA]

Am I the only one who thinks the world would be a lot better off without religion?

Nope you aren't. This is too sad.

 

[DarthWoo]

I wonder what would happen if there was someone who was hypoglycemic (or hyper, whichever is the one that requires frequent eating), and obviously could not follow a fast. I guess it would probably be like that Catholic girl who is going to hell because she's allergic to wheat.

 

[Chrono]

What the fuck are you talking about ?you dont know anything about Islam. No where in Islam are lashings allowed cause someone broke their fast.

Actually yes, lashing for breaking the fast might not be in the qor'an. Lashings for drinking though are there. That pretty much legitimates lashing as a punishment in shari'a. But I guess believing anything other then the qor'an being a guidebook to utopia is racism and blind hatred now.

 

[Chrono]

I wonder what would happen if there was someone who was hypoglycemic (or hyper, whichever is the one that requires frequent eating), and obviously could not follow a fast. I guess it would probably be like that Catholic girl who is going to hell because she's allergic to wheat.

AFAIK you don't have to fast if you're sick. I think you have to make it up though (donate for poor, pray more, etc...).

 

[Firest0rm]

uh, how do you know that? There are muslims who believe those kind of lashings are justified and obviously others who don't. Just because one is "nicer" doesn't mean that it actually is what the religion preaches. It's just what you want to believe. I'm not saying it is part of islam (or not), just wondering about your logic here.

Islam does not preach lashings. The fucking shit you see from day to day about Islam is nothing close to what Islam is. Everyday I get more depressed by this fucking world. All this lashing and punishment doesn't come from Islam, it comes from the primitive cultures that the middle eastern countries won't let go off. If you knew anything about Islamic history then you'd know what I'm talking about. Islam forbids inflicting harm to one's self, if you can't fast then you don't have to. In cases like your sick, your still young or too old, etc.

In alot of the Arab countries these "punishments" are all from Beduwin culture and other nomadic cultures. In the history of Islam, Beduwins incorporated their culture into Islam not the other way around. Things that are not part of Islam, that are not mentioned in the Qur'an are being implemented as "Islamic Beliefs", but their not and people confuse the two. Whats worse is that the governments are using these to control the populations. They've kept the people preoccupied with not getting "punished" by them. Truth is, in Islam no human is given right to punish any other human. Punishment is left to God to give on Judgment Day.

Islam's purpose is to teach a person tolerance and control, meaning having control over what you do to yourself and what you do to others but NOT what others do. And aggression is against what Islam preaches, the only time a Muslim can fight is if someone was agressing against him. In times of war a Muslim soldier is forbidden from harming the elderly, the women, the children, and any man that isn't a soldier, and any soldier that has no means of defending himself.

 

[rastex]

Chrono has proven himself to be a very vocal anti-Islamic person. So you can argue with him if you want, but well, we know what the Quran says about those that don't want to know.l Of course it is our duty to dispel misinformation when we see it.

Ok, so for people that are reasonable and can think rationally beyond their inherent bias, here's the deal.


First let me say that all good things I say are due to God and all the bad come from my own imperfections. If anybody sees any mistakes in what I post, please correct me.

Lashings for breaking your fast prematurely are not in Islam in any form. Saum (fasting) is an individual activity that a person performs solely for God's sake. Breaking fast may prompt people to be judgemental and shun you (which is bad as well) should never result in any type of physical punishment, let alone death. That's just absolutely ridiculous and incredibly WRONG. The proper course of action should have been a close friend/relative talks to the boy in private, and if he chooses not to fast then that is his choice to disobey God, and he'll have to answer to God himself.

I don't know where anybody got the idea that killing someone over breaking their fast is somehow good but that is just very messed up and deserves to be changed instantly.


General aside: There are as many religions as there are people, as each person has their own interpretation of whatever they believe in. Unfortunately some people sometimes can interpret things really really badly, and if they get into power really bad things can happen. Whether that personal religion stems from organized religion, money, some idealogies, whatever.

 

[rastex]

And honestly, looking at the article it just seems rather suspicious. Crazy stuff like this has happened before in the ME and all around the world, but it usually receives more than a couple of paragraphs in the news. I'd like to see this confirmed in other news sites before taking this as truth.

 

[Particle Physicist]

And honestly, looking at the article it just seems rather suspicious. Crazy stuff like this has happened before in the ME and all around the world, but it usually receives more than a couple of paragraphs in the news. I'd like to see this confirmed in other news sites before taking this as truth.

they have a picture.. you think its a photoshop ?

 

[Chrono]

Chrono has proven himself to be a very vocal anti-Islamic person.

How is that? Oh because I don't agree with your religion? I guess I'm also an anti-jewish and anti-christian person too. Grow the fuck up.

Firestr0m: shari'a was part of islam DURING mohammad's leadership as prophet and it was the law that governed the islamic umah. As for the "bedwin culture," really if you don't believe islam to be divine just about everything in ti makes sense if you link it to bedwin arab culture.

It's amazing how just because your opinion is negative of something, that automatically makes it wrong and condemns you as a hater. I guess it's nicer to believe the world is much simpler and full of love.

they have a picture.. you think its a photoshop ?

It's the fucking law in Iran. They lash people on a daily basis. No need for a photo. Not believing this is like saying something is suspicious in the U.S, I don’t' really believe that they have a death penalty. It’s just too cruel so it doesn't make sense. So you must hate Americans if you think so-- do you really think they're that cruel! OMG RACIST!!!

 

[Che]

Am I the only one who thinks the world would be a lot better off without religion?

No you are not. What muslims do now, christians were doing some hundrends years ago. They're just a couple of hundrend of years behind. Religions are like that in their pick. They show their true forms.

 

[The Bookerman]

Believing you have a mandate from a higher power - or believing you're acting in the name of said higher power - can push zealots, especially violent ones.

That's Bush alright.


"God told me to become the president of the united states"

Fuckin bull shit.

 

[DarthWoo]

No you are not. What muslims do now, christians were doing some hundrends years ago. They're just a couple of hundrend of years behind. Religions are like that in their pick. They show their true forms.

Let's not forget that there are some christians out there who would love to revert to those days.

 

[rastex]

they have a picture.. you think its a photoshop ?

That picture could be from any time in the last 30 years from about 20 different countries. Hell, from pretty much ANY country that has some people in beards. I mean, they couldn't have gotten a clearer picture? They couldn't have gotten more information like the name of that particular judge? They don't even say what the protesters were protesting about, were the protesters holding up signs? yelling stuff out? What were they yelling? I'm not dismissing the article outright, there's a chance that it's true, but the more I look at it and study the words the more suspicious it becomes.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but is Iran Press News a well-known news organization? Going to their homepage they don't seem to be the most well-established news organization. Again, I'm not going to dismiss the site or agency outright because of bad site-design, but it definitely doesn't help their case for credibility.


And Chronos you might also be anti-Judaism and anti-Christian as well, I never said you weren't, it's not like the three are mutually exclusive, I'd actually say they go hand in hand. And your "hate" comes from the fact that you make consistently ridiculous claims that are backed up with absolutely no sources or facts to back them up. If you want to critisize or have some reservations about a particular belief or practise that the Quran espouces then show you have room to talk by providing knowledge into the subject. I don't mean you have to become a scholar, but at a minimum reference some quotes from the Quran.

 

[thefit]

ramadamn!

 

[levious]

This is a horribly tragic piece of news... but I'd really like to know what he ate.

 

[thefit]

ramadowned!

 

[radioheadrule83]

Countries that choose to live under such unhumanitarian law, or harbour those that lay down their own law in this way should be under complete embargo until they're so fucking hungry they beg for fucking civilisation.

For all our anti-authority rhetoric, the truth is: capitalism and democracy aren't so bad folks. At least we don't have to put up with this shit. No. We can sit in our parents basement, on fucking welfare if we want, take a day off and still make enough to eat AND find time to type forum posts on something called the internet - about corruption in the government or how we badly those in power treat the world. All without ever really thinking of taking affirmative action. Many don't even have to get off their ass and vote to feel content doing this. While hate crimes on boundaries of sex, religion and race are not (of course) truly extinguished in the western world... at least we can say we're civilised enough and of sound enough moral conviction, to know how fucking wrong this is. Even those of us who are non-religious.

These are the kind of people I'd like to see in some kind of Abu Ghraib, salad tossed, tortured and y'know - maybe lashed to death? Victims of their own intolerance. If there were any divine providence in this world, like that they worship enough to do this, it would fucking happen and I'd revel in knowing about it. Hope they're enjoying the stone age, I think I'll go play with some consumer electronics, talk freely amongst friends and family and eat whenever I fucking like.

Later

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

And the day when Iranians will tear down the Mullahs(Unless they flee to Swiss first) comes a bit closer.......................