So I saw KotOR (PC) on the shelf for $20, and I know of how many outstanding reviews it had received, so I picked it up before I came back to school. Needless to say, it lives up to its expectations, but I have had some minor troubles with it. Did anyone else find it to forget the brightness settings frequently, especially if you alt-tabbed, or if a notification from another program (like MSN Messenger) popped up in the background? Additionally, it seems to crash a lot if I try to skip certain cinemas, so I have to sit through a lot of the movies during interplanetary transit, just to prevent it from crashing. I've installed the latest patch as well. I have to say though, I really wasn't expecting the big twist.
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A Bit Late: Knights of the Old Republic
- Thread starter DarthWoo
- Start date
Son of Godzilla
Banned
The best part in the whole game is the farming fued/romance thing on the jedi planet.
B-B-Bomba!
Member
I was going to write up a long review and post that, having recently completed the PC version myself at long last, but I haven't the time right now, and here's this thread, so ...
I enjoyed it a lot, particularly the first half, but I felt the way the end of the game was engineered was essentially a little bit weak. Looking back at it, I still enjoyed playing through the final stages, but by that time it had all become fairly predictable, much as Grandia 2 did. In that game, the never-changing formula of simple outdoor maze leading to variously themed town (cue hotel on the right, and weapon shop on the left), eventually leading to some kind of involvement with the local characters and the inevitable dungeon and boss, just went stale in my hands as I played it.
Both these games have mountains of redeeming features of course, the art and music in both being worthy of especial mention. Grandia 2s combat system aced KOTORs fairly heavily, although who can argue with customisable Jedi characters? On the other hand the structure of KOTORs closing stages, as a next generation game, was necessarily more fluid, and generally better planned than G2s. However I still felt that having established a formula early on, Bioware were doing little more than throwing in a few loops and wrinkles, and letting the art department take care of most of the rest.
The result is to stimulate a cynical approach from the player, such that the little things which have been used to differentiate scenarios eventually flake away, and all you see is more corridors, more enemies and more cut scenes. It isn't enough just to fashion an ending to an RPG by use of plot cues (the obvious ones such as conversations and cut scenes that tell you you're facing your final challenge), and the more subtle changes to the rhythm of the experience, such that the player can subconsciously sense that things are drawing to a close, much as with a piece of music.
This isn't enough, and game designers need to recognise that. I can't really make any practical suggestions, only indicate what I feel is lacking; and that is an evolution to the gameplay throughout the game. New things need to be added in a smooth ascending curve, so that there are exponentially more reasons to be playing the game by the time you get to the end. In so many games the only reason you're really finishing it is because a) OK, it's quite fun, b) you've put in a lot of effort increasing stats for these characters, and c) look it's just nearly finished, OK?
Am I asking too much here? I don't necessarily expect the music or the graphics to 'get better' in the later stages of the game, so why should the gameplay be different? Well I don't really know, I'm just saying how I feel. Maybe at some point between the designers and me, one of us isn't seeing games in the right light? I just felt that in KOTOR, taking the player to new places to do the same things for different reasons, didn't really feel like an appropriate way to wind up the experience. In some way, I wish they had expanded the players ability to interact with situations. Perhaps being able to use the force on the environment, to achieve certain effects? This would be a challenge to design, naturally, but I'd be prepared to lose some of the gilding on the restrictive gameplay tube Bioware created, in exchange for it expanding a little more as play progressed.
Perhaps, if Bioware were making KOTOR 2 themselves, they might have considered such alterations to the core design; but having farmed it out to another company who necessarily wont have the confidence to fuck with a proven formula, all I'm expecting is a carbon copy with a different flavour and the odd flourish ...
I enjoyed it a lot, particularly the first half, but I felt the way the end of the game was engineered was essentially a little bit weak. Looking back at it, I still enjoyed playing through the final stages, but by that time it had all become fairly predictable, much as Grandia 2 did. In that game, the never-changing formula of simple outdoor maze leading to variously themed town (cue hotel on the right, and weapon shop on the left), eventually leading to some kind of involvement with the local characters and the inevitable dungeon and boss, just went stale in my hands as I played it.
Both these games have mountains of redeeming features of course, the art and music in both being worthy of especial mention. Grandia 2s combat system aced KOTORs fairly heavily, although who can argue with customisable Jedi characters? On the other hand the structure of KOTORs closing stages, as a next generation game, was necessarily more fluid, and generally better planned than G2s. However I still felt that having established a formula early on, Bioware were doing little more than throwing in a few loops and wrinkles, and letting the art department take care of most of the rest.
The result is to stimulate a cynical approach from the player, such that the little things which have been used to differentiate scenarios eventually flake away, and all you see is more corridors, more enemies and more cut scenes. It isn't enough just to fashion an ending to an RPG by use of plot cues (the obvious ones such as conversations and cut scenes that tell you you're facing your final challenge), and the more subtle changes to the rhythm of the experience, such that the player can subconsciously sense that things are drawing to a close, much as with a piece of music.
This isn't enough, and game designers need to recognise that. I can't really make any practical suggestions, only indicate what I feel is lacking; and that is an evolution to the gameplay throughout the game. New things need to be added in a smooth ascending curve, so that there are exponentially more reasons to be playing the game by the time you get to the end. In so many games the only reason you're really finishing it is because a) OK, it's quite fun, b) you've put in a lot of effort increasing stats for these characters, and c) look it's just nearly finished, OK?
Am I asking too much here? I don't necessarily expect the music or the graphics to 'get better' in the later stages of the game, so why should the gameplay be different? Well I don't really know, I'm just saying how I feel. Maybe at some point between the designers and me, one of us isn't seeing games in the right light? I just felt that in KOTOR, taking the player to new places to do the same things for different reasons, didn't really feel like an appropriate way to wind up the experience. In some way, I wish they had expanded the players ability to interact with situations. Perhaps being able to use the force on the environment, to achieve certain effects? This would be a challenge to design, naturally, but I'd be prepared to lose some of the gilding on the restrictive gameplay tube Bioware created, in exchange for it expanding a little more as play progressed.
Perhaps, if Bioware were making KOTOR 2 themselves, they might have considered such alterations to the core design; but having farmed it out to another company who necessarily wont have the confidence to fuck with a proven formula, all I'm expecting is a carbon copy with a different flavour and the odd flourish ...
Neither was I. Even had little clues sprinkled around that I didn't really take any specific notice to. Bioware did a great job.
Love how guilty the game made you feel at some points. Being evil is something I wanted to do from the get-go, but couldn't bring myself to do until after I'd beaten the game being good. I suppose it might be that way for the sequel (YAY!) and Fable too.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Although it could've been more polished, technically, KotOR was a fantastic game and easily, IMO, the best Star Wars-themed title in a looooooog time. Looking forward to the second one.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Yeah...Tie Fighter did rock. Last one that I was thinking of, though, was Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight. Still wish they'd mix those two together... *drool*
They've made a DX-based remake (well it was more of a re-release) for both Xwing and TieFighter a while back. It was based on the Xwing vs TieFighter engine. It helped the graphics for sure, but I haven't bothered playing it much, seeing that it's essentially the same game (at least Xwing is).
B-B-Bomba!
Member
MetatronM ... I don't think so? I won't discount the possibility out of hand, as I don't play that many RPGs. Really I'm criticising it for not having a sense of the pace of the experience? It's diffiuclt to express, because the plot is of course paced superbly; it's a long game, you always know where you stand, you know more or less how much more there is to go, and yeah, generally, it's paced well ...
But the only serious expansion to your capabilities during play is Force-sensitivity, and while, yes, this grows, all it ever really lets you do is fuck people up in combat situations. Which is fun, of course, but once you've put a pack of Gamorreans in stasis, doing it to the final boss won't feel too new: it's just more people to do the same things to for reasons of ever magnifying importance, and for me that just feels a little blown out by the end?
I'm expressing myself badly; I really like the game, maybe you're right and I'm just criticising the genre? But RPGs have always seemed special to me, in that gradually they're incorporating more and more game styles, and therefore have the potential to be the most complete gaming experiences. I felt KOTOR was polished, and I'm only criticising it so heavily because it isn't a commonly expressed opinion. If I wanted I could list hundreds of big and small things that I really liked, chief among which probably being the Ebon Hawk ...
Anyway, I'm going to start again fairly soon, and be a baaaaaad motherfucker. I think I'll be a woman, I've no doubt that will help.
But the only serious expansion to your capabilities during play is Force-sensitivity, and while, yes, this grows, all it ever really lets you do is fuck people up in combat situations. Which is fun, of course, but once you've put a pack of Gamorreans in stasis, doing it to the final boss won't feel too new: it's just more people to do the same things to for reasons of ever magnifying importance, and for me that just feels a little blown out by the end?
I'm expressing myself badly; I really like the game, maybe you're right and I'm just criticising the genre? But RPGs have always seemed special to me, in that gradually they're incorporating more and more game styles, and therefore have the potential to be the most complete gaming experiences. I felt KOTOR was polished, and I'm only criticising it so heavily because it isn't a commonly expressed opinion. If I wanted I could list hundreds of big and small things that I really liked, chief among which probably being the Ebon Hawk ...
Anyway, I'm going to start again fairly soon, and be a baaaaaad motherfucker. I think I'll be a woman, I've no doubt that will help.
It wasnt just the combat, theres dozens of decent space combat sims, the atmosphere and the whole story of beatin' the rebels into a chewy pulp for a change was what i loved.
Anyway on the subject of KOTOR, a new planet has been revealed for KOTOR2 (actually it was revealed a while back but i dont think anyone posted) and a new movie of it, its called Telos...
http://download.lucasarts.com/swkotor_sithlords_telos.mov
Anyway on the subject of KOTOR, a new planet has been revealed for KOTOR2 (actually it was revealed a while back but i dont think anyone posted) and a new movie of it, its called Telos...
http://download.lucasarts.com/swkotor_sithlords_telos.mov
Holy crap, the dark side ending rocks!
Edit: Although, as I referred to in my original post, I still seem to have some crashing problems with cutscenes, as it crashed right after the end credits, without me even having tried to skip them.
I almost felt bad about ordering Zalbaar to kill Mission, but he still owed me the whole life-debt thing, so it's all good.
Edit: Although, as I referred to in my original post, I still seem to have some crashing problems with cutscenes, as it crashed right after the end credits, without me even having tried to skip them.
B-B-Bomba!
Member
I tend to talk too much and say too little.