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[eot]

Commentary from a pilot:


Full press conference:

Spoiler

 

[Stiflers Mom]

2035?

That's like it will never happen.

 

[Cunth]

But I want one now

 

[Elektro Demon]

2035? I'll prolly be dead by then.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

 

[eot]

2035?

That's like it will never happen.

That would be very quick for an aircraft using an entirely different fuel source. Introducing new technologies in the aviation industry is extremely time consuming and costly because of the safety and certification requirements.

 

[M1chl]

That would be very quick for an aircraft using an entirely different fuel source. Introducing new technologies in the aviation industry is extremely time consuming and costly because of the safety and certification requirements.

Well biggest challenge is probably how to store it safely, engines probably not going to be that much of an issue, since hydrogen combust basically by itself.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Beat me to it.

I was going to say they had hydrogen flying machines 100 years ago, I forget how it turned out

 

[godhandiscen]

Fuck, Airbus is taking a shit on Boeing. I am not a fan of Boeing, but its awful that the USA aerospace industry grew so complacent.

 

[Birdo]

Looks like an Ace Combat boss.

 

[Kenpachii]

Pretty sure there is a massive revamp on its way in the airplane industry.

I believe the second of your video is a plane that will be the future.

This one was released a few years ago which is currently getting build i believe, which seems to be far far more efficient at everything then the current planes.

Anyway this is really good news.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

you just know California is going to be the first to sign up for these.

 

[Kenpachii]

Hydrogen cars are already a thing and doing far better then those battery pack versions. The only problem is creating the hydrogen is expensive on energy, but with future power plants that won't be much of a issue anymore. Which basically makes electric for heavy machinery a thing. Also for cars i can see hydrogen being the future over battery packs for multiple reasons.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Hydrogen cars are already a thing and doing far better then those battery pack versions. The only problem is creating the hydrogen is expensive on energy, but with future power plants that won't be much of a issue anymore. Which basically makes electric for heavy machinery a thing. Also for cars i can see hydrogen being the future over battery packs for multiple reasons.

By what metric are hydrogen cars doing better than electric?

 

[Kenpachii]

By what metric are hydrogen cars doing better than electric?

Electric battery's are a real hazard for city area's because of the battery packs that simple will not go out when fire breaks out. It's even so bad they are currently here removing those charge stations out of flats and out of the city's denser areas like parking lots under flats.

Then the longer reach of a car with hydrogen which makes it suddenly possible to run trucks and other heavily equipment with it which is practically most of our traffic, and also the refuel time is beyond shorter then with electric cars. Which are big reasons battery powered trucks and mini trucks which are probably a big base of car users on the road will not move over towards battery tech anytime soon if at all.

Less powerup / refuel stations needed, faster fueling etc. ( no need to completely overhaul electric systems which is a big plus for governments )

No batteries in general. Which brings in a lot less costs and hassle and weight into the picture.

Battery type what tesla is pushing forwards is a good step forwards but honestly unless something drastically changes i don't' see it have much of a future. More and more car manufacturers move into hydrogen in europe and fuel stations are build more and more. And this will continue as battery's are simple just a mid step in between as of now.

The real clux of hydrogen atm is that there are fast interest in pushing electric battery cars forwards because of existing contracts and deals that are made, so its harder for hydrogen to get adopted because of it, but this is changing.

So yea there are lots of area's where hydrogen overtakes battery's really. However there are downsides towards it.
More explosive than battery packs. So a big boom that goes out vs a endless burning fire hazard, ( no clue however how the tanks are now to be honest, didn't follow much of it ).
More expensive to create the fuel, which could be fixed with thorium power stations in the future.
Have to put in a more expensive installation to supply fuel stations with it, but that offload the cost of having to revamp your entire electrical grid.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Electric battery's are a real hazard for city area's because of the battery packs that simple will not go out when fire breaks out. It's even so bad they are currently here removing those charge stations out of flats and out of the city's denser areas like parking lots under flats.

Then the longer reach of a car with hydrogen which makes it suddenly possible to run trucks and other heavily equipment with it which is practically most of our traffic, and also the refuel time is beyond shorter then with electric cars. Which are big reasons battery powered trucks and mini trucks which are probably a big base of car users on the road will not move over towards battery tech anytime soon if at all.

Less powerup / refuel stations needed, faster throughput etc. ( no need to completely overhaul electric systems which is a big plus for governments )

No battery's in general. Which brings in a lot less costs and hassle and weight into the picture.

Battery type what tesla is pushing forwards is a good step forwards but honestly unless something drastically changes i don't' see it have much of a future. More and more car manufacturers move into hydrogen in europe and fuel stations are build more and more. And this will continue as battery's are simple just a mid step in between as of now.

So yea there are lots of area's where hydrogen overtakes battery's really. However there are downsides towards it.
More explosive than battery packs. So a big boom that goes out vs a endless burning fire hazard, ( no clue however how the tanks are now to be honest, didn't follow much of it ).
More expensive to create the fuel, which could be fixed with thorium power stations in the future.
Have to put in a more expensive installation to supply fuel stations with it.

You didn't answer the question. You said hydrogen cars are "doing far better" than eletctric cars. That is objectively not true in any sense.

 

[Kenpachii]

You didn't answer the question. You said hydrogen cars are "doing far better" than eletctric cars. That is objectively not true in any sense.

Technology wise/ use and application. Really battery tech is limited to such a extent it's not much more useful then being used in smaller cars and family cars basically what elon musk sells. For actual transport products like trucks / cars and planes and even mini fans that take up most of the road, electric powered cars are simple not a solution as of now simple because of the battery packs but that could change with hydrogen.

I wasn't talking about sales and adoption rate here if you thought i was. That's because governments etc don't' subsidize it massively as its new technology and there is fast interest and investment already being pushed out in power stations for battery's. but the needle is shifting here on that front pretty drastically in the last few years because there is fast interest in pushing electric engine forwards.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Technology wise/ use and application. Really battery tech is limited to such a extent it's not much more useful then being used in smaller cars and family cars basically what elon musk sells. For actual transport products like trucks / cars and planes and even mini fans that take up most of the road, electric powered cars are simple not a solution as of now simple because of the battery packs but that could change with hydrogen.

I wasn't talking about sales and adoption rate here if you thought i was. That's because governments etc don't' subsidize it massively as its new technology and there is fast interest and investment already being pushed out in power stations for battery's. but the needle is shifting here on that front pretty drastically in the last few years because there is fast interest in pushing electric engine forwards.

That’s not what you said in your original post. I’m not sure how you went from discussing cars to 18 wheelers and planes. Or why you’re making a distinction between cars and industrial transport, but in the same breath conflating the two. Your argument is non sensical.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

 

[Greedings]

Air travel is scary.

 

[nush]

This one was released a few years ago which is currently getting build i believe, which seems to be far far more efficient at everything then the current planes.

Anyway this is really good news.

Airport infrastructure *Cries*.

 

[notseqi]

The only problem is creating the hydrogen is expensive on energy, but with future power plants that won't be much of a issue anymore. Which basically makes electric for heavy machinery a thing. Also for cars i can see hydrogen being the future over battery packs for multiple reasons.

Electricity can be really expensive in other countries. We are currently thinking about additional solar panels and the projections for 2040 electricity prices are insane, double and more than what we have right now.

Getting every car on the road to be electric only is an insane thought and won't happen, it's gonna be hybrid, it'll probably be the abundant Hydrogen.

 

[GeorgPrime]

Commentary from a pilot:


Full press conference:

Spoiler

Fridays for future says we are dead by then

 

[triplestation]

get this on FS2020

 

[Kenpachii]

Electricity can be really expensive in other countries. We are currently thinking about additional solar panels and the projections for 2040 electricity prices are insane, double and more than what we have right now.

Getting every car on the road to be electric only is an insane thought and won't happen, it's gonna be hybrid, it'll probably be the abundant Hydrogen.

That's where thorium nuclear power comes in which is probably going to be a thing around the same time peroid.

 

[notseqi]

That's where thorium nuclear power comes in which is probably going to be a thing around the same time peroid.

Hope fusion will be something, Wendelstein7x proved the concept and ITER is being built.
There is no chance in hell that we're gonna do nuclear again.

 

[mcz117chief]

Looks like an Ace Combat boss.

You were right, it does look a lot like the Ark Bird

 

[MetalAlien]

and the power used to make hydrogen will make more GHG that just burning aviation fuel.

 

[Kenpachii]

Hope fusion will be something, Wendelstein7x proved the concept and ITER is being built.
There is no chance in hell that we're gonna do nuclear again.

Thorium + molten salt reactor is the future. So yea i partly agree with that.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

That’s not what you said in your original post.

How about being not anal about it.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

How about being not anal about it.

Battery electric cars are ahead of Hydrogen cars in every single way - in terms of consumer adoption, industry adoption, availability, infrastructure, efficiency, amount of money invested in R+D. There's literally not a single area where hydrogen cars are doing better. There's nothing "anal" about that. If you disagree, feel free to explain.

 

[Ballthyrm]

So for people who are asking themselves why are they doing this exactly ?

There is a really good video from Curious Droid about hydrogen and aviation.




The big thing for me is that the weight of battery is not getting any lighter which is a deal breaker for long haul aviation.

The infrastructure has to be built yes but it is much easier and safer to do it at the relatively few airports than all the gas stations you would need for cars for comparison.
Hydrogen make a kit of sense for Planes and really big moving things like cargo ships, etc.


It is really exciting !

 

[lock2k]

Aviation is the shit! Do we have any pilots on GAF?

 

[notseqi]

Battery electric cars are ahead of Hydrogen cars in every single way - in terms of consumer adoption, industry adoption, availability, infrastructure, efficiency, amount of money invested in R+D. There's literally not a single area where hydrogen cars are doing better. There's nothing "anal" about that. If you disagree, feel free to explain.

Our infrastructure is not capable of handling fully electric mobility. Some kind of 'precursor' fuel will be required, hydrogen seems sensible as long as you're not going for airships.
If some fundamental questions aren't answered about efficiency and power production we're gonna stick to what we've got.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Alternative fuels is good could be backup fuel

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Our infrastructure is not capable of handling fully electric mobility. Some kind of 'precursor' fuel will be required, hydrogen seems sensible as long as you're not going for airships.
If some fundamental questions aren't answered about efficiency and power production we're gonna stick to what we've got.

Our infrastructure *now* is not capable of an all BEV *future*. But we don't need it to - we just need our infrastructure now to handle the state of BEV as it currently stands. And Hydrogen is better in this regard...how? The energy efficiency of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles is 3-4x worse than BEV.

 

[notseqi]

Our infrastructure *now* is not capable of an all BEV *future*. But we don't need it to - we just need our infrastructure now to handle the state of BEV as it currently stands. And Hydrogen is better in this regard...how? The energy efficiency of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles is 3-4x worse than BEV.

What else will be used to power hybrids? And when are we going to improve our infrastructure and where is the power coming from? Fusion is still quite far out, Thorium-salt reactors are not viewed in a good light, Solar is difficult, Hydroelectric is a net loss almost everywhere, Geothermic isn't far enough along.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

What else will be used to power hybrids? And when are we going to improve our infrastructure and where is the power coming from? Fusion is still quite far out, Thorium-salt reactors are not viewed in a good light, Solar is difficult, Hydroelectric is a net loss almost everywhere, Geothermic isn't far enough along.

You do realize that Hydrogen is not an actual fuel source, right?

 

[notseqi]

You do realize that Hydrogen is not an actual fuel source, right?

Hydrogen vehicle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Be more of a dick about it and ignore the rest of my post. You seem like a bit of a nut.

Edit: A Toyota Mirai drove 100.000km on one ton (1000kg) of H2, costing roundabout the same in fuel as effcient Diesel cars and is a fair cheaper than Petrol.
Range is more than most electric cars can manage.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Hydrogen vehicle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Be more of a dick about it and ignore the rest of my post. You seem like a bit of a nut.

Edit: A Toyota Mirai drove 100.000km on one ton (1000kg) of H2, costing roundabout the same in fuel as effcient Diesel cars and is a fair cheaper than Petrol.
Range is more than most electric cars can manage.

What?
Hydrogen is not naturally abundant on earth. We need to produce it. The process of producing hydrogen, compressing it, transporting storing it and finally delivering it to consumer is about 3-4x more inefficient than taking that energy from the gird and storing it in a BEV. You need energy to produce hydrogen fuel - it is not an alternative to any form of power generation.

The Mirai has a range of 320 miles, not far off from BEV values. It also costs about $13 to go 100 km in it based on current hydrogen fuel prices, compared to $4.50 for a Toyota corolla running on Petrol. So not "fair cheaper" but "over twice as expensive".
And if hydrogen fuel cell cars are "so far ahead" of BEVs, then where are all the hydrogen fuel stations and hydrogen fuel cell cars?

 

[NecrosaroIII]

i almost bought a Toyota Mirai, ended up getting a prius. The infrastructure just isn't in place for adoption of hydrogen cars yet. Still, the technology is amazing. I'm excited to see how aerospace will adapt it.

 

[Mr Nash]

I hope these wing shaped planes become the norm. It would be nice to tell young 'uns in the distant future about stuff like 747s the same way bi-planes are talked about today.

 

[notseqi]

What?
Hydrogen is not naturally abundant on earth. We need to produce it. The process of producing hydrogen, compressing it, transporting storing it and finally delivering it to consumer is about 3-4x more inefficient than taking that energy from the gird and storing it in a BEV. You need energy to produce hydrogen fuel - it is not an alternative to any form of power generation.

We know. We are working on it. We need a fuel that makes energy and frees the car from the electric grid, even if running on electricity only, for autonomy and time constraints.
What else do you want to look into?

The Mirai has a range of 320 miles, not far off from BEV values. It also costs about $13 to go 100 km in it based on current hydrogen fuel prices, compared to $4.50 for a Toyota corolla running on Petrol. So not "fair cheaper" but "over twice as expensive".

That's for countries that have kept their fuel prices low which is not the case for Europe. Roundabout 4,80€/5,60$ for a gallon of petrol, and that's the lowest it's been for almost 15 years.

And if hydrogen fuel cell cars are "so far ahead" of BEVs, then where are all the hydrogen fuel stations and hydrogen fuel cell cars?

The concept is far ahead.
More problems need to be solved, the oil industry wasn't built in a day.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

We know. We are working on it. We need a fuel that makes energy and frees the car from the electric grid, even if running on electricity only, for autonomy and time constraints.
What else do you want to look into?


That's for countries that have kept their fuel prices low which is not the case for Europe. Roundabout 4,80€/5,60$ for a gallon of petrol, and that's the lowest it's been for almost 15 years.


The concept is far ahead.
More problems need to be solved, the oil industry wasn't built in a day.

Hydrogen does not make energy.

Even with european prices, petrol is still cheaper than hydrogen.

The "concept is far ahead" is a meaningless statement.

 

[notseqi]

Hydrogen does not make energy.

Semantics, you're being deliberately obtuse.

Even with european prices, petrol is still cheaper than hydrogen.

No, as stated before.

The "concept is far ahead" is a meaningless statement.

Your posts are meaningless because you don't answer questions.
BEV hurr durr, go upgrade the electrical grid you prick.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Semantics, you're being deliberately obtuse.


No, as stated before.


Your posts are meaningless because you don't answer questions.
BEV hurr durr, go upgrade the electrical grid you prick.

Hydrogen requires electricity to be produced. It’s sole advantage is that it is more easily transported than large batteries once it is produced. This isn’t semantics, you fundamentally don’t understand how it works. You can choose to use energy to store in batteries, or you can store it in hydrogen fuel. The latter takes far more energy. If the electrical grid and power generation capabilities aren’t up to par for BEV, they will be even worse off for hydrogen.

The Corrola gets 35 mpg. By your own European petrol numbers that would cost $10 to do 100km. So yeah, still cheaper than Hydrogen. “As stated before” doesn’t mean anything if you haven’t proved it.

“Hur dur”. I’ve answered all your questions

 

[eot]

Hydrogen requires electricity to be produced. It’s sole advantage is that it is more easily transported than large batteries once it is produced. This isn’t semantics, you fundamentally don’t understand how it works. You can choose to use energy to store in batteries, or you can store it in hydrogen fuel. The latter takes far more energy. If the electrical grid and power generation capabilities aren’t up to par for BEV, they will be even worse off for hydrogen.

I know you're talking about cars, but since this thread is about aviation, I'll just add that another major difference is that if you burn hydrogen then you lose weight in the process. One reason electrochemical batteries are almost useless for aviation is that they're heavy, and the plane isn't any lighter when landing (max take-off weight is typically quite a big higher than max landing weight).

 

[ripeavocado]

Ugly as fuck

 

[V4skunk]

What?
Hydrogen is not naturally abundant on earth. We need to produce it. The process of producing hydrogen, compressing it, transporting storing it and finally delivering it to consumer is about 3-4x more inefficient than taking that energy from the gird and storing it in a BEV. You need energy to produce hydrogen fuel - it is not an alternative to any form of power generation.

The Mirai has a range of 320 miles, not far off from BEV values. It also costs about $13 to go 100 km in it based on current hydrogen fuel prices, compared to $4.50 for a Toyota corolla running on Petrol. So not "fair cheaper" but "over twice as expensive".
And if hydrogen fuel cell cars are "so far ahead" of BEVs, then where are all the hydrogen fuel stations and hydrogen fuel cell cars?

LOL Hydrogen is almost every where. What do you think water is made out of?
There are also scientists developing vacuum flywheel tech. With the goal of splitting water fast enough for a average combustion engine to work, with out having to even store the hydrogen in a tank! Instead you'd have a water tank for fuel.

 

[notseqi]

“Hur dur”. I’ve answered all your questions

Nope, and I won't talk to you anymore you lording twonk.