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[Funyarinpa]

TW: Sexual abuse, rape

Hurriyet Daily News

Change.org campaign

I cannot believe what the fucking shit I am reading. AKP is Turkey's most popular democratic party, and they're known for their ultra-nationalist and Islamist approach. They just proposed a bill that will let 3000 convicted sexual abusers get off scot-free if they marry their victims.

Men guilty of sexually abuse may avoid being prosecuted if they marry the victim, according to a controversial motion proposed by the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) that has been harshly criticized by opposition parties.

In the case of sexual abuse committed before Nov. 11, if the perpetrator marries the victim “without force or threat,” the sentence will be postponed, according to the motion.

Minister Bozdağ slammed criticisms, arguing that the motion is valid only for verdicts given before Nov. 11 and will not be applicable in the future.

“It is a temporary regulation and it will be put into force only one time retrospectively,” he told reporters on Nov. 18, adding that there are around 3,000 people in jail that will be released with this regulation.

Bozdağ denied that the motion would cover rape cases and said there is a current “reality” encouraging marriage between girls and boys under the age of 18 that the motion aimed to address.

“This step has been taken to protect young people who are victims of underage marriage done by their families,” he said.

“Those who say rapists will benefit from this are distorting the situation. People who are convicted have definitive files that indicate clearly whether there is a rape or if it is a mistake of the parents,” he added.

“This kind of underage marriage exists in our society as a social reality because these laws could not be explained to society well and necessary awareness has not yet been developed. We have seen the reality and tried to find a solution,” Bozdağ also said

I'll leave it up to you if you want to trust AKP, which claims that this one-time measure will have enough countermeasures to prevent rapists from reengaging with their victims.

#TecavüzMeşrulaştırılamaz is trending on Twitter right now ("#RapeCannotBeInstitutionalized") as a response to the bill.

 

[frontovik]

Interesting logic, the bill implies that the victims (including their families) would just go along with this? Sounds like a recipe for disaster at home.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

In the case of sexual abuse committed before Nov. 11, if the perpetrator marries the victim “without force or threat,” the sentence will be postponed, according to the motion.

Oookay

 

[ClosingADoor]

What the hell is that guy talking about with his "mistake of the parents"?

This will lead to (even more) abuse and should not be allowed.

Interesting logic, the bill implies that the victims (including their families) would just go along with this? Sounds like a recipe for disaster at home.

This is unfortunately normal in some parts of the world. Girls being forced to marry their rapist for the "honor" of the family and that kind of bullshit.

 

[Pakoe]

wat.

 

[Ray Wonder]

In the case of sexual abuse committed before Nov. 11, if the perpetrator marries the victim “without force or threat,” the sentence will be postponed, according to the motion.

So you can bribe them?

 

[SlimySnake]

I remember a time when I admired Turkey for being a secular country run by muslims. Now its just another middle eastern country ran by ultra conservative muslims. you dont even see shit like this in Pakistan anymore.

 

[DarkKyo]

It's sad that there are individuals, never mind governments, who believe this sort of thing is a policy that solves problems.

 

[Aizen.S.Kennedy]

So is he trying to say this bill will protect underage ppl who have sex with someone who the parents didn't pick out for marriage and claim rape because of that ?? An this bill will allow them to not be charged if they get married??? That's how it reads to me. Can anyone explain what the line about "parents mistake" means.

 

[azyless]

Seems like this is meant to avoid (underage) guys going to jail for having sex with their (also underage) girlfriends ? Which I can't disagree with but this seems like an incredibly wrong way to solve it.

 

[mnz]

Remember, this is still a country that wants to join the European Union and the process is officially still pursued from both sides. And this is its leader's (Erdogan's) party and the by far biggest party in the parliament.

 

[Funky Papa]

Remember, this is still a country that wants to join the European Union and the process is officially still pursued from both sides. And this is its leader's (Erdogan's) party and the by far biggest party in the parliament.

The Sultan has already told the EU that he doesn't need us.

Toodles, I say.

 

[Funyarinpa]

The Sultan has already told the EU that he doesn't need us.

Toodles, I say.

Depending on the lingo of the day, he fluctuates between "Those dirty Europeans are two-faced liars! How dare they!" (regarding the coup and the visa-refugee deal) and "Our fair, heroic, honorable nation can stand on its own without European intervention!".

 

[ShyMel]

In the case of sexual abuse committed before Nov. 11, if the perpetrator marries the victim “without force or threat,” the sentence will be postponed, according to the motion.

How does one prove that an abuser didn't force or threaten the victim to marry them? Many abuse victims fear retaliation if they do speak out about the abuse they've faced.

 

[Funyarinpa]

How does one prove that an abuser didn't force or threaten the victim to marry them? Many abuse victims fear retaliation if they do speak out about the abuse they've faced.

You can't. Especially in a country like Turkey, where there's a ton of stigma about marriage.

 

[TCRS]

Guess that's it for Turkey as a shining beacon in the islamic world.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

Like, how big of a fucking idiot do you have to be to exist in 2016 and think this is going to result in anything positive?

 

[Skellig Gra]

Remember, this is still a country that wants to join the European Union and the process is officially still pursued from both sides. And this is its leader's (Erdogan's) party and the by far biggest party in the parliament.

The EU isn't "pursuing" this one very hard, lol.

 

[Steejee]

Atatürk spinning in his grave.

 

[Brazil]

Straight out of 1500 BC.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Just learned about this

WTF?

 

[Des0lar]

Atatürk spinning in his grave.

Atatürk spinning so fast he could power the entire nation

 

[Dalibor68]

Last night on austrian TV there was a debate about Turkey where one of the people there was a german-born AKP politician who said that a) the "anti-rape-bill" was actually also instituted by AKP in 2005 or something (meaning they can't be "pro-rape" because they were the ones who brought the "anti-rape" legislation in the first place, by their argument) and b) that its a specific reaction to a particular case where a 17year old had sex with his 15year old gf but due to current laws it was considered rape and he was facing 5years of prison which is why this law was drafted and only works backwards and not for the future.

Of course I have no idea if what he said is true and the AKP doesn't exactly deserve benefit of the doubt anymore, but I still think people should read up more on it instead of just reading the thread title and making quality posts like "Straight from 1500 BC". And I'm saying that as probably one of the most outspoken anti-erdogan/akp users here.

 

[archnemesis]

BBC | Turkey withdraws child rape bill after street protests

 

[TemplaerDude]

What "parts of the country" is this supposed problem, what exactly is this problem and how did anyone at all think that this was a solution to whatever this problem is?

 

[Berto]

What the hell happened to you Turkey?

 

[qazqaNii]

The bill was actually mostly proposed for people that actually marry before 18 mostly happening in east Turkey which had some severe consequences that you couldn't officially register your marriage and when you had child they would "walk" around unregistered.

What they hadn't considered was this "loophole"/flaw, glad this was actually spotted and that the government withdrew the bill although there is still problem with marriage before 18.

 

[Funyarinpa]

Last night on austrian TV there was a debate about Turkey where one of the people there was a german-born AKP politician who said that a) the "anti-rape-bill" was actually also instituted by AKP in 2005 or something (meaning they can't be "pro-rape" because they were the ones who brought the "anti-rape" legislation in the first place, by their argument) and b) that its a specific reaction to a particular case where a 17year old had sex with his 15year old gf but due to current laws it was considered rape and he was facing 5years of prison which is why this law was drafted and only works backwards and not for the future.

Of course I have no idea if what he said is true and the AKP doesn't exactly deserve benefit of the doubt anymore, but I still think people should read up more on it instead of just reading the thread title and making quality posts like "Straight from 1500 BC". And I'm saying that as probably one of the most outspoken anti-erdogan/akp users here.

There are photos of the law being drafted, published on reputable newspapers, and I can assure you that not a single thing in the law being drafted specifies that both participants have to be underage/restricted by date for this law to be applicable. Even if it were so, it sets a legal precedent for taking stuff further. It also excuses underage marriage because "tradition and they love love love each other!!!1!!1!!11!".

What "parts of the country" is this supposed problem, what exactly is this problem and how did anyone at all think that this was a solution to whatever this problem is?

Generally speaking, as you go from Western Turkey to Eastern Turkey, poverty and bigotry increases while quality of life and education decreases. So mostly the eastern parts, I'd presume.

BBC | Turkey withdraws child rape bill after street protests

Thank you for the link.

It needs to be mentioned that the law has just been withdrawn to be redrafted and presented again later. The hashtag #GeriÇekmekYetmezİptalEdilsin ("Withdrawal Is Not Enough, It Should Be Cancelled") is trending on Twitter right now.

A Turkish news source, Hurriyet, reports that according to the Minister of Justice (who's defending this bill), the whole legislation will be withdrawn to the Commission of Justice, where the clause about pardoning for underage marriage will be removed (allegedly). The rest will apparently be legalized (apparently the motion is part of a larger draft or something). That said, that is no guarantee that this motion *will* be removed.

 

[hohoXD123]

Turkey going full Saudi Arabia

Last night on austrian TV there was a debate about Turkey where one of the people there was a german-born AKP politician who said that a) the "anti-rape-bill" was actually also instituted by AKP in 2005 or something (meaning they can't be "pro-rape" because they were the ones who brought the "anti-rape" legislation in the first place, by their argument) and b) that its a specific reaction to a particular case where a 17year old had sex with his 15year old gf but due to current laws it was considered rape and he was facing 5years of prison which is why this law was drafted and only works backwards and not for the future.

Of course I have no idea if what he said is true and the AKP doesn't exactly deserve benefit of the doubt anymore, but I still think people should read up more on it instead of just reading the thread title and making quality posts like "Straight from 1500 BC". And I'm saying that as probably one of the most outspoken anti-erdogan/akp users here.

If that's the case then I assume there is a clause somewhere in the bill in regards to age?

 

[GrizzleBoy]

It's a shame we can't just terraform Mars already.

Would really like to escape this shit hole of a planet sometimes.

 

[Funyarinpa]

Turkey going full Saudi Arabia



If that's the case then I assume there is a clause somewhere in the bill in regards to age?

Besides seeing nothing in the bill to any such effect, let me remind you that the minister who's one of the main supporters of this bill (Bekir Bozda&#287 has literally and unironically used the phrase "Consent of children". The way the clause defines consent is also problematic. It's something to the effect of "<marriage negates punishment yadda yadda> provided that the child(ren) are not coerced, threatened, forced or have their consent influenced in any manner". Tell me how you can have children with an underage person without influencing their consent?

 

[Stereogatari]

What the hell happened to you Turkey?

Turkey is exactly what it was.

The demographic in power is what changed.

 

[TheSecondSpitter]

BBC | Turkey withdraws child rape bill after street protests

I'm starting to think the proposed law was actually a ruse to out more disssnters to AKP.

 

[gutter_trash]

boycott Turkey

 

[Funyarinpa]

I'm starting to think the proposed law was actually a ruse to out more disssnters to AKP.

If it wasn't a sincere attempt at establishing such a law, then it was likely to avert attention from the disastrous $/Turkish Lira exchange rate. $/TL rate has been literally breaking historic records almost at a daily basis in the last few months. I'm pretty sure the record was at 3.15 or thereabouts before October. The record is now 3.42. It's been somewhat stable for the last few days, around 3.36.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

What "parts of the country" is this supposed problem, what exactly is this problem and how did anyone at all think that this was a solution to whatever this problem is?

It's basically a problem in the conservative heartland and Kurdish regions. Underdeveloped, low education level and poor. The more westward (or north) you go this becomes less of an issue. Tunceli is the city with the highest education level in Turkey and this problem is almost nonexistent there.

http://i.hurimg.com/i/hurriyet/90/848x3074/5832b429c03c0e2edce24027

So the solution is to educate people, but that I suppose scares the shit out of the AKP/ Erdogan. Can't have people actually know shit, that would cost them votes in those regions.

Back in the 70's a similar kind of law was still active. Then a Turkish writer called Vedat Türkali wrote a book called Fatmagül'ün Suçu Ne. That lead to a big outcry when people read about such practises and they changed the law not long after the books release. They made a tv drama out of it a couple of years back. It was pretty big. I think the Turks here will remember that series.

If it wasn't a sincere attempt at establishing such a law, then it was likely to avert attention from the disastrous $/Turkish Lira exchange rate. $/TL rate has been literally breaking historic records almost at a daily basis in the last few months. I'm pretty sure the record was at 3.15 or thereabouts before October. The record is now 3.42. It's been somewhat stable for the last few days, around 3.36.

Also this! Always when something bad happens for them they throw a fit about something. If it isn't this then it will be them trying to abolish the abortion law or something. Whatever it takes... don't look to the economy!

 

[El Topo]

If it wasn't a sincere attempt at establishing such a law, then it was likely to avert attention from the disastrous $/Turkish Lira exchange rate. $/TL rate has been literally breaking historic records almost at a daily basis in the last few months. I'm pretty sure the record was at 3.15 or thereabouts before October. The record is now 3.42. It's been somewhat stable for the last few days, around 3.36.

I wonder how much support Erdogan still has if he undoes his own economic accomplishments, arguably the one big selling point he used to have.

 

[Funyarinpa]

I wonder how much support Erdogan still has if he undoes his own economic accomplishments, arguably the one big selling point he used to have.

Third Bosphorus bridge, check.

Infrastructure stuff, check.

Anti-West, Islamist rhetoric, check.

Anti-coup, nationalist ego masturbation, check.

I can assure you that Erdocucks will find a way to blame it all on the West.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

so i guess the wankerer is marrying that goat

 

[El Topo]

I can assure you that Erdocucks will find a way to blame it all on the West.

People are willing to accept a lot as long as they see benefit. That has always also been the case for Turkey. Erdogan's biggest trump card was always the economy though, without that things could get ugly.
What if e.g. tourists stay away? What if investors continue to withdraw support? What if the exodus of talent cannot be stopped? More powerful and smarter people than him have fallen victim to that.

 

[Salty Rice]

Its sad to see how they gone hundreds of years backwards since the failed coup.

Erdogan has to go somehow.