To be a Dr. Frankenstein allegory
Or less sarcastically, to create life like the Engineers did I guess.
Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS
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To be a Dr. Frankenstein allegory
Or less sarcastically, to create life like the Engineers did I guess.
IcyRhythms
Member
Also, I won't defend Ress. My Alien fan mind likes to pretend it doesn't exist.
evilromero
Member
Yea, the whole self-healing thing definitely leaves the window open for Scott to write in a Walter rescue mission.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
I liked the movie but I'm disappointed with Dr. shaw's story and how she ended up. I'm also a bit pissed about sill not knowing jackshit about the engineers and why they want to kill us. Godammit, I just wanna know about the engineers! How many more movies do we need to go through to finally get some real info about them?!
TheWrathOfSean
Member
Man just saw it tonight. That James Franco death was not what I expected. Totally thought they were going to do the planet of the apes thing where he had been dead for a while from going into hypersleep sick like he was in the video. Now that I think of it, there's no way that could really happen when they have constant life support monitoring and Walter running around the ship.
gutter_trash
Banned
excuse my ignorence, but what's a Space Jocky?
Not unless she had a kid as a teenager, and left her on Earth.
The dead giant thing in the ship where they find the face-hugger eggs in the original Alien film
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nope.
Interesting question is whether there was ever a draft where that was true.
Before Prometheus, "Space Jockey" is what people called the weird giant elephant thing sitting on a giant dick in Alien.
I don't think that they left enough time between Prometheus and Alien. Prometheus was something like 30 years before Alien. So Ripley would have been born around that same time. Covenant is 10 years later (20 years before Alien).
PandaShake
Member
Just watched it. While I enjoyed it, I had many gripes. They really shouldn't allow married people on space missions. If it was a warship, I would agree with no soldier left behind, but I don't agree with jeopardizing a colonization effort without more information of what's going on down there. When Captain Oram saw one of his crew dead after shooting the alien next to David and instead of regrouping with the rest, he would follow David to his basement to find out the truth? If the mission was to find out what happened to Prometheus, that's understandable, but the mission was to colonize so who cares about David and his truth? Get the fuck out! At the end, I understand they were fighting an Alien, but why wouldn't they prioritize questioning if Walter was himself or David? Also, why would they build a spaceship where you can't hear emergency broadcasts if you're taking a shower? I also don't like how quickly they killed off Elizabeth. Her struggling and surviving in the first movie was completely invalidated with no sendoff by turning out to being a corpse for an alien.
ronaldthump
Member
If Walter which is an old model compared to the rest of the androids that came after it can self heal; why can't the newer model. Opens a whole can of wormmmss.
Btw, angry Joe did two videos on covenant and he hates it. Lol
Considering how seemingly plausible that rumor was, it really says a lot about the quality of Ridley's worldbuilding with the "Alien" franchise (poor, the quality is poor).
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I liked it a lot. It did spend a lot of time on mythology and philosophy, but I'm kind of a sucker for that kind of thing, so I get that ymmv for some folks. Some random thoughts..
Saw the David twist coming a mile away. I though the design of the necropolis was fantastic. Highlight if the film, for me. The opening was a bit heavy handed, but cool.
Saw the David twist coming a mile away. I though the design of the necropolis was fantastic. Highlight if the film, for me. The opening was a bit heavy handed, but cool.
Inceptional
Member
David knows it's not the perfect organism yet, hence his look of disappointment everytime one of his creations gets destroyed. I think he'll eventually realize that creating the perfect xeno will require his own sacrifice, thus finally creating the final bio-mechanoid look of the Alien. It will finally be the perfect mix of organic and machine, smarts and hate, god and beast.
ronaldthump
Member
One is a review
One is a spoiler discussion.
Ive watched both and he makes for a very reasoned reviewer
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I strongly disagree with your appraisal of his talents as any sort of online personality of worth.
He even mastered the weird sexuallity.
My theater had around 40 people in it, and there was laughter from multiple people from all sides at the fingering line. Dunno what percentage, but it was a pretty good chunk.
Yeah. In Alien and Aliens, part of why they were so scary is you couldn't predict their behavior. They learned, they took their time, they were patient but relentless. Here they just sprint straight at you at full speed, repeatedly. It felt like a dumb, fast animal. Which just isn't as scary.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
I haven't seen the movie yet, but are these xenomorphs the same as in Alien/Aliens?
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if they're some kind of precursor, is it possible maybe they're just not advanced enough yet to not be stupid?
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if they're some kind of precursor, is it possible maybe they're just not advanced enough yet to not be stupid?
Empyrean Heaven
Member
Honestly? Was not a fan. This movie takes the Xenomorphs, one of the most legendary movie monsters of all time, and makes them the creation of a rogue android for the purpose of killing off humanity because robots are superior - aka the most used trope in the history of science fiction.
Also, the whole end of the movie, it was obvious that David killed Walter and took his place, so why would David need Dany and Tennessee if his ultimate plan was to infect the embryos and presumably create a Xenomorph army?
Also, one of the things that was great about the original Alien was how much the Xenomorph was barely seen throughout the film making it truly terrifying. With the new one being CG, and rather rough at that, it really didn't invoke the same sense of fear. That said, there was some truly terrifying, gory moments that I appreciated.
One more issue, and I know I'm going to get some hate for it, but hear me out. I'm cool with the fact that among the couples were Lope and Hallett, a gay couple that are two big burly dudes people would typically consider the furthest thing from gay. However, it doesn't make sense from a scientific perspective. Isn't the whole point of a colony to propagate the species upon it to create a new Earth-like world? So why take a couple that cannot physically reproduce?
Also, yes, Michael Fassbender essentially fellatiating himself was a bit funny.
Also, the whole end of the movie, it was obvious that David killed Walter and took his place, so why would David need Dany and Tennessee if his ultimate plan was to infect the embryos and presumably create a Xenomorph army?
Also, one of the things that was great about the original Alien was how much the Xenomorph was barely seen throughout the film making it truly terrifying. With the new one being CG, and rather rough at that, it really didn't invoke the same sense of fear. That said, there was some truly terrifying, gory moments that I appreciated.
One more issue, and I know I'm going to get some hate for it, but hear me out. I'm cool with the fact that among the couples were Lope and Hallett, a gay couple that are two big burly dudes people would typically consider the furthest thing from gay. However, it doesn't make sense from a scientific perspective. Isn't the whole point of a colony to propagate the species upon it to create a new Earth-like world? So why take a couple that cannot physically reproduce?
Also, yes, Michael Fassbender essentially fellatiating himself was a bit funny.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's not really a Devil's Advocate kinda situation, though.
They're not the exact same as the one in Alien (which isn't the exact same as the one in Aliens [which isn't the exact same as the one in Alien 3]) but they're the same, yeah. Facehugger jumps out of egg, leads to chestburster, grows into alien.
There are opportunities for another one of these to take on the traits of its host, depending on what kind of host it has (or whether Scott gives a shit about this aspect anymore) which would lead to the ones we saw in Alien.
The story was taken down after Fox made a legal complaint, so it might have been an idea that was dropped.
GiantBombGamer
Member
I assumed that was the point of the human embryos, so that traditional reproduction wouldn't be necessary at first.
From an execution perspective as a scifi horror movie, I like this one better than Prometheus by a fair amount but it still falls into the same lazy storytelling mistakes that made that movie so maddening to watch. At least the crew of Prometheus stepped out onto an alien world for the first time with their hazard suits on, what's Covenant crew's excuse? Does Scott just not think its worth going through the motions to create a more believable breakdown of protocol?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
What did he mean by this?
Member
Alien Covenant made me no longer like Prometheus. Ridley Scott really has nothing left to say.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Aww, c'mon. It's not Prometheus' fault Covenant turned out the way it did. If you liked it before Covenant, you should still like it! It's the exact same movie! Nothing about anything in it has changed between then and now.
But now we know it's as vapid and shallow as we were afraid it was.
What did he mean by this?
Member
I've made up my mind and it will never ever change no matter what
Bobby Roberts
Banned
But that's on you all, though
It's not like the movie was fuckin' hiding that shit
It's not like the movie was fuckin' hiding that shit
No, I agree. Prometheus was always stupid.
But if you were holding out hope that maybe all of those unresolved questions from Prometheus meant something, like Scott was withholding some insight, this really put the fucking kibosh on that. Especially when the central mystery of Prometheus - why the Engineers decided to wipe out humanity - is, to my memory, not even addressed in Alien: Covenant.
Alien fans are old.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
LOL don't pull up the 'objective' card. People who do that are the worst of being really 'objective' and in the end it's just used as a cop-out to devalue those who disagreed.
'Objectively' my arse.
So the Engineer?
Nah. It's not a matter of expecting hard scifi here, just a token acknowledgment of basic common sense that they could have quickly written around and gotten on with all the other bad decision-making that largely makes sense given the circumstances. The theme that we're our own worst enemy really doesn't need to be THAT hamfisted.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Also not great at prioritizing their time
It's acknowledged there though.
For example: Not a single person, to my knowledge, has ever suggested the Marines needed to be in full space suits upon approaching Hadley's Hope, despite knowing there was an alien infestation. Now we know that Ripley doesn't know everything there is to know about the Xenomorph (especially considering her experience with it is limited to watching one pop out of a chest and then shooting it with a spear gun) so it makes basic common sense that anyone on a mission to interact with an (aggressively hostile) alien species should probably be suited up in case some sort of toxic atmosphere or chemical defense mechanism is employed.
Right?
But nobody says that.
Partially because Cameron himself never acted like Marines going in wearing football pads and tank tops was out of the ordinary (which goes a long way in selling that decision to the audience) and partially because Aliens was made well and Prometheus wasn't, but mostly because every dumb thing about Aliens wasn't memed within an inch of its life shortly upon release and reduced to simple critical shorthand repeated for five straight years. "No helmets" was a big part of that.
Covenant actually addressed that meme-ified complaint from Prometheus, and did so in a way that actually fits with how these things were handled in previous Alien movies. It's consistent with the rules of that universe, and handled better than it was handled in Prometheus (where people taking their helmet off was highly stupid).
jack_package_200
Banned
I liked it. It does have some issues but the positives outweigh the negatives for me.
Those negatives being:
1. Some dumb characters
2. The movie feels a bit too safe and familiar. You can predict some of the story beats based off the tittle.
3. I kind of get the impression Ridley Scott wanted to make Prometheus 2 and Fox wanted an Alien movie so it tries to do both with some mixed results.
Its a much better movie than Prometheus.
I adore Michael Fassbender in this. Felt like a director stand in who gets a sick thrill of unleashing his horrifying creations.
Those negatives being:
1. Some dumb characters
2. The movie feels a bit too safe and familiar. You can predict some of the story beats based off the tittle.
3. I kind of get the impression Ridley Scott wanted to make Prometheus 2 and Fox wanted an Alien movie so it tries to do both with some mixed results.
Its a much better movie than Prometheus.
I adore Michael Fassbender in this. Felt like a director stand in who gets a sick thrill of unleashing his horrifying creations.
GravityInsanity
Member
Man, what they did to Elizabeth Shaw really pissed me off. In Prometheus Ridley Scott wants you to root for her. Her struggles, near deaths, etc. So many times I thought she was going to die and she manages to escape it. At the end of the movie it felt like she was somewhat of a hero. I thought we were going to go on a journey with her in a sequel to Prometheus, instead she is killed by the one android she helped be put back together and is made into a corpse with her stomach dissected for an Alien farm. What was the point of the first movie...
My reaction seeing her body...
My reaction seeing her body...
Referring to how Aliens handled it isn't really making a great case for internal consistency since that movie had a completely different thematic approach than either the original movie or Prometheus/Covenant do. More to the point, 30 years on from that movie I would hope its not asking too much to see a slightly more evolved approach to basic scientific plausibility. They're certainly happy to acknowledge that we wouldn't really be using monochrome CRT displays in this future anymore.
Yeah, that was a pretty awful fate for Shaw. I think Scott simply lost interest in what Prometheus was about, as along with Shaw, the entire topic of the Engineers is dismissed. They were ultimately what that film was about, and the follow up tosses them into the trash.
There's barely a line of dialogue from the crew of Covenant about this race of aliens whose city they are staying in. They're not the least bit curious about it, and neither is Scott. Somewhere between movies, he decided that Weyland goading David into spiking what's his name's drink to see what happens is what the series is really about. Which, to me, is just about the least interesting direction he could possibly have gone in.
There's barely a line of dialogue from the crew of Covenant about this race of aliens whose city they are staying in. They're not the least bit curious about it, and neither is Scott. Somewhere between movies, he decided that Weyland goading David into spiking what's his name's drink to see what happens is what the series is really about. Which, to me, is just about the least interesting direction he could possibly have gone in.
jack_package_200
Banned
Some thoughts:
One of the things that was super creepy was how David would speak about Shaw. You would think she was his spouse by the way he was talking about her. She would mother his children against her will. David's behavior feels like an extension of the rape metaphor that the original Alien was all about. When Daniels asks David what he is going to do to her, he forces himself on top of her and kisses her.
I get the impression Scott saw all of the whining and endless nitpicking of Prometheus and wanted to win those people back by making those elements of Prometheus be much less important to the story of Alien: Covenant
One of the things that was super creepy was how David would speak about Shaw. You would think she was his spouse by the way he was talking about her. She would mother his children against her will. David's behavior feels like an extension of the rape metaphor that the original Alien was all about. When Daniels asks David what he is going to do to her, he forces himself on top of her and kisses her.
I get the impression Scott saw all of the whining and endless nitpicking of Prometheus and wanted to win those people back by making those elements of Prometheus be much less important to the story of Alien: Covenant
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
So can Scott just not handle criticism? He seriously disavowed Prometheus with Covenant. The engineers,Shaw,fans he basically said as we say in Texas 'Fuck all of y'all!'
HoodWinked
Member
the floating dismembered head in the water was a shocking scene but then they kept going back to it over and over and over again.
Man, what they did to Elizabeth Shaw really pissed me off. In Prometheus Ridley Scott wants you to root for her. Her struggles, near deaths, etc. So many times I thought she was going to die and she manages to escape it. At the end of the movie it felt like she was somewhat of a hero. I thought we were going to go on a journey with her in a sequel to Prometheus, instead she is killed by the one android she helped be put back together and is made into a corpse with her stomach dissected for an Alien farm. What was the point of the first movie...
My reaction seeing her body...
Same for me. It basically ruined Covenant for me. Daniels wasn't nearly as memorable as Shaw. I realize that this is all about getting to the first Alien movie, but Covenant felt like a subpar transitional act in between major acts.
Honestly I think Scott just doesn't want to deal with his actors wearing helmets
Also, LV426 had already been colonized and terraformed at that point