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All Xbox 360 in 1080i????
- Thread starter KarishBHR
- Start date
lachesis
Member
Just curios.. what's going to happen who don't have Wide Screen TV? I mean, I already have HD setup, but I'm just wondering that there will be millions others who don't have yet...
Will all the games be playable in full screen or will be letter boxed? Just wondering how they are addressing that HDTV is not exactly the mainstream when compared to the regular CRT owners..
lachesis
Will all the games be playable in full screen or will be letter boxed? Just wondering how they are addressing that HDTV is not exactly the mainstream when compared to the regular CRT owners..
lachesis
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
Apparently the scaler in the machine will be very good, developed by the team who worked on the Matsushita M2 (vaporware). It'll be able to output at 720p, 1080i, and a few other custom resolutions like 1366x768. I'm still gonna test it, though, outputting at 720p and 1080i on my CRT to see which looks better. CRTs generally have very good scalers; I actually can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080i content on mine.
Edit: To make things clearer; certain games will be developed for 720p, others 1080i (most will be 720p). You won't have to choose which resolution for every game, of course. Just go into the dashboard and set the resolution you want to output. Choose 1080i and EVERYTHING will be output at 1080i - games, dashboard, everything.
Edit: To make things clearer; certain games will be developed for 720p, others 1080i (most will be 720p). You won't have to choose which resolution for every game, of course. Just go into the dashboard and set the resolution you want to output. Choose 1080i and EVERYTHING will be output at 1080i - games, dashboard, everything.
Beer Monkey
Member
The Samsung 1366x768 set they use for their demos and kiosks, from what I hear, can take 1360x768 PC VGA input, and it just doesn't render three columns of pixels on each side.
Unison said:
There is no suspense. The Xbo360 will output to any resolution you need.... The output of the video is handled by a completely seperate chip from the GPU which does the scaling. All games are made at 720p with AA and the scaler chip does the upconvert/downconvert of the signal to whatever kind of TV you've got. Pretty smart idea, I thought.
Beer Monkey
Member
I doubt this is true for 480i/480p 4:3 modes. If it is true, they'll have to letterbox the games.
Beer Monkey
Member
When I watch ESPN 720p on my 1080i set, it still looks pretty darned good, notably better than DVD in general.
Sometimes you will see moire on background fences and such, this cannot be avoided.
Sometimes you will see moire on background fences and such, this cannot be avoided.
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Yeah, i've watched HDTV broadcasts on my set as well... It looks great to me. Like I said, I am perfectly happy with how DVDs and HDTV looks on my set. I would just feel better about having an outdated HDTV if someone who's seen the 360 firsthand on one could say definitively "games don't look comparatively jaggy" or something.
cubicle47b
Member
That would be nice.
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
That's sort of my point too. The scaler will most likely do a good job. But it doesn't hurt to experiment a bit. I mean, when I got my HD CRT, I picked up a cheap little Sony progressive scan DVD player on sale until I could get a nicer unit. The de-interlacer in this thing was so bad that I was LOSING image detail when I chose to output at 480p. If I chose to output 480i, and let my TV do the de-interlacing (most HDTVs will automatically convert 480i to 480p), the difference was unbelievable. I couldn't believe how crappy this player was - and it's made me more skeptical about just how good internal de-interlacers/scalers actually are.Unison said:
gunstarhero
Member
Awesome - my new Sony has a native res of 1366x768.
Beer Monkey
Member
Wow, a lot of games are going to look like hell when HUDs and other elements are chopped right off the screen. Just think how awful GR:AW will look, and even play, with all that important stuff sliced right off.
In Ridge Racer, the speedometer and map would get sliced right in half, at least.
Come on, there's no way. The scaler is not converting these games to 4:3. Nope.
Some sets can't actually accept, as input (VGA in this case), their native resolution. Beware, and check at AVSForum.
beermonkey@tehbias said:Wow, a lot of games are going to look like hell when HUDs and other elements are chopped right off the screen. Just think how awful GR:AW will look, and even play, with all that important stuff sliced right off.
Come on, there's no way. The scaler is not converting these games to 4:3. Nope.
The pics of in-game Madden seem to support my theory. Only a few UI elements go outside the 4:3 area, and that can just be moved in for 4:3 displays.
Jonnyboy117
Member
urk said:1080p?
They're saving that for the "HD+ Era", starting in 2008 with Xbox 420. Its controller will be even more comfortable, to the point that you won't even want to play games, just hold the controller for hours and hours.
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
Well, that's what I'm wondering too. I still don't think there has been any info released on the options that 4:3 TV owners will have. Will games be cropped, squeezed, or letterboxed? I would hope that at least two of those will be choices. The average gamer isn't going to like letterboxed games, just like they don't like OAR DVDs.beermonkey@tehbias said:
I'm thinking that HUDs will also be developed with 16x9 in mind. If you're a 4:3 user who chooses to crop/squeeze, the HUD will be scaled down to fit the 4:3 window. All of the videos I've seen of gameplay suggest that HUDs, menus, everything, ARE designed with 16x9 in mind (circles look like circles, etc). Big improvement over this gen, where playing in 16x9 mode meant having an oval crosshair.
vatstep said:
Yeah, it's a good point, and it's frustrating that more 360 coverage isn't focusing on this. Even an article that showed what the same screenshot looked like output to all of the supported formats would be a great help.
I guess this might change once the websites get machines in their hands, but right now, I feel really in the dark on this issue, and am glad I have 2 HDTVs, just in case I'm not satisfied with the output on one of them.
T
thepusherman
Unconfirmed Member
I'm really going to laugh hard when PS3 games are rendered natively at 720p..... Blu-Ray will primarily be 1080p... not the games. Plus you'll need an HDMI or DVI connection to enjoy Hi-Def movies. Something a lot of earlier adopters don't have on their sets.
Patrick Klepek
furiously molesting tim burton
I can't afford a new TV 
4:3 4 lyfe
4:3 4 lyfe
Jonnyboy117
Member
Suikoguy said:
$300 price difference was a big deal to me when my 4:3 was only $800. If you're in the market for a $2000 set, I agree, go all the way with 16:9.
GitarooMan
Member
Suikoguy said:
Why? I bought a 36-inch Sony HDTV CRT a couple of years ago (when more of my watching and gaming was in 4:3). You realize it just shows HDTV content in letterbox, not cropped or anything. It's basically just like having a 33-inch widescreen TV...
Beer Monkey
Member
I bought a 4:3 HDTV four years ago, no regrets. When I bought it, I only expected it to last for four or five years before being replaced by HDMI, etc.
It's been a fantastic set to have in this last generation, as I have enjoyed beautiful 480p games with no nasty stretching (most 480p games don't have widescreen modes).
When I want 16:9, it squeezes the raster slightly and becomes the equivalent of a 48" 16:9 set instead of a 53" 4:3 set.
You know all those 16:9 CRT-based RPTVs? They all have 4:3 CRTs and spherical lenses inside, all they do is squeeze the raster and chop the top and bottom off of the passive screen...
It's been a fantastic set to have in this last generation, as I have enjoyed beautiful 480p games with no nasty stretching (most 480p games don't have widescreen modes).
When I want 16:9, it squeezes the raster slightly and becomes the equivalent of a 48" 16:9 set instead of a 53" 4:3 set.
You know all those 16:9 CRT-based RPTVs? They all have 4:3 CRTs and spherical lenses inside, all they do is squeeze the raster and chop the top and bottom off of the passive screen...
Version 3.0
Member
I've been feeling sorry for (as opposed to laughing at) all the people with 16:9 sets that don't have a 4:3 480p mode for this entire console generation. I call that "fat game mode". And I've been surprised how many sets are like that, and also at how many people whose sets are not like that don't bother to change to 4:3 anyway--they prefer a fat picture to one with the side bars (WTF?).
As for me, 16:9 looks awesome on my TV, too. Been watching movies like that for years with no regrets, now new games will look the same. If I were to switch, all older games would have side bars--is that really any better than new games having top/bottom blank space? Not for me, not yet.
As for me, 16:9 looks awesome on my TV, too. Been watching movies like that for years with no regrets, now new games will look the same. If I were to switch, all older games would have side bars--is that really any better than new games having top/bottom blank space? Not for me, not yet.
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
Yeah, I'm wondering that too. Even my cheap little Samsung lets me run 480p in 4x3, 16x9, Zoom or Panorama. 720p and 1080i can be viewed in 16x9 or 4x3 (great for for TNT, who insists on airing cropped-then-stretched movies - pointless and horrifying). The more expensive Sony sets actually let you use zoom modes on 720p and 1080i stuff - though I don't really see the appeal.Yusaku said:
One issue you might want to keep in mind is that the xbox 360's internal scaler will have minimal lag when scaling from 720p to whatever resolution.
Some HDTVs have scalers that add noticable lag. (I think in certain modes Samsung DLPs add nearly 100ms.) This doesn't matter as much for movies, but for games it might be an issue. Telling the 360 to output at native resolution will hopefully bypass that.
Some HDTVs have scalers that add noticable lag. (I think in certain modes Samsung DLPs add nearly 100ms.) This doesn't matter as much for movies, but for games it might be an issue. Telling the 360 to output at native resolution will hopefully bypass that.
Version 3.0
Member
Yusaku said:
I don't remember what kinds they were, but I've seen it twice, and been told about it a few other times. Both times I saw it myself, they were projection TVs. I think one was a Mitsubishi? I remember thinking "they make TVs?".
And the other situation, I must've seen a half-dozen times--people who play a 4:3 game in stretched 16:9 just so it fills the screen. Bugs the hell out of me. One of those 'techie' things, I guess, like being irritated at people who use composite video from their DVD players to their HDTVs.
Ghengis Cohen
Banned
Technical Requirement Certification. All games have to pass certain requirements that the hardware manufacturers have set in order to be published.Helznicht said:
Beer Monkey
Member
Yeah, there were a fair amount of TVs in the first few years that would lock into stretched 16:9 if you fed it 480p. It was called something like the 'lock in full' bug. If you wanted to watch a DVD of a 4:3 TV show or old academy ratio movie, you had to put your DVD player into interlaced mode to stop the stretching. If you search AVS, Home Theater Forum, or alt.video.digital-tv, you'll find discussion of the problem. DVDO even added a black 'windowbox' function to one of their iScans just to address the issue.
Beer Monkey
Member
It's possible, though I still wouldn't do it unless the TV has the same or less lag than the 360. I'll take a drop in scaling quality to eliminate lag any time (in fact, that's what 'Game' mode in some new sets do, reduce lag at the expense of scaling quality).
I suspect that the internal scaling in 360 will be very good.