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[Dunkelgrau]

Hey GAF!

The following may sound a bit strange at first, but let's see where it takes us...

Imagine you have to explain something to a person or even a very small group of people. Nothing complicated, like brain surgery or black matter: let's just say the basic functions of NeoGAF or an instant messenger like WhatsApp or Telegram. Let's also assume that these people would basically be able to understand the whole thing (so your 101-year-old grandmother wasn't there).

And: It just doesn't work! Your desperation is growing and you sometimes feel like you're being taken for a ride.

Am I overestimating people's abilities? Do they just not feel like it? Am I perhaps really getting screwed? What is usually the reason?

Many thanks in advance

 

[The Cockatrice]

Parents, education and a huge increase in internet usage at an early age are whats causing mental deficiency these days and its getting worse with each generation.

 

[Mossybrew]

Need more context to go on OP. Is it a work thing? Maybe some passive resistance because they don't want to integrate some new program or something. They can't really say no but they can drag their feet and make implementation difficult.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

You might not have explained it well enough. The first post, I'm afraid, alludes to that being a possibility.

 

[Bring Back Scalebound]

being taken for a ride.

Do they just not feel like it?

That's something you can judge from their attitude.
People that are actually trying to learn a new information, but aren't succeeding at it, tend to get visibly frustrated.

They tend to ask questions too. They look actively engaged.

I have tried explaining stuff to older people, for example, and I could tell when some of them were only trying to make me believe that they wanted to learn. When actually, they just want to call me to do it for them.

Am I perhaps really getting screwed? What is usually the reason?

Lack of practice, probably. And a willingness and patience to let the person make mistakes.

Any new information, regardless of how well you explained, needs practice, and trial and error.

"This is how a character in a video game controls.
Not their combos, not their mechanics. Just their basic movement. Here is how you control them (explained 3 times), now here, take the controller, and walk around this empty area for 20 minutes".



I'm not sure if anything I said applies to what you are saying. I apologize if it's completely unrelated.

 

[YCoCg]

If you explained it as well as the OP then I'm siding with them

 

[Daneel Elijah]

You can't teach someone who do not want to learn. And we all have something that we do not want to learn. It get worse in a group because people follow the trends and if the feel of the room is against it for wahtever reason you are fucked. Just move on if you can, and if this is work related, you hopefully don't have to see those people ever again.

 

[*Nightwing]

 

[dave_d]

That's something you can judge from their attitude.
People that are actually trying to learn a new information, but aren't succeeding at it, tend to get visibly frustrated.

They tend to ask questions too. They look actively engaged.

I have tried explaining stuff to older people, for example, and I could tell when some of them were only trying to make me believe that they wanted to learn. When actually, they just want to call me to do it for them.

Pretty much this is spot on. I mean once at work I was supposed to train 3 people on a process that we were doing.(Setting up a server with software) I could pick up that of the 3 only one actually wanted to learn it. So the other 2 would just ask pretty basic questions while the one that seemed like he wanted to learn would ask more nuanced questions. Yeah, pretty much I was right, only that guy actually learned how to set up a server.(Admittedly one of the 2 was a manager who just wanted a background in what we did so I didn't expect him to learn it. But wasn't technical so didn't expect him to do so.)

 

[dave_d]

Am I overestimating people's abilities? Do they just not feel like it? Am I perhaps really getting screwed? What is usually the reason?

Well I do say the following, "There's a greater difference between myself and the average person than there is between an average person and someone who is literally retarded." (Yeah, I'm pretty jaded at times.)

 

[ForAcademicPurposes]

Try the visual approach?

 

[MudoSkills]

If something feels incredibly obvious to you, you might be doing a bad job explaining it.

Start from a point of assuming someone has absolutely no knowledge on the subject.

 

[12Goblins]

are you explaining something so basic that it comes off patronizing so they are mocking you?

I do this a lot with management at work. they are so inept It's how I cope

 

[StylishMGTOW]

 

[ReBurn]

Are you sure the problem is all of the other people? Or could it be the way you're explaining it?

 

[Durien]

Hey GAF!

The following may sound a bit strange at first, but let's see where it takes us...

Imagine you have to explain something to a person or even a very small group of people. Nothing complicated, like brain surgery or black matter: let's just say the basic functions of NeoGAF or an instant messenger like WhatsApp or Telegram. Let's also assume that these people would basically be able to understand the whole thing (so your 101-year-old grandmother wasn't there).

And: It just doesn't work! Your desperation is growing and you sometimes feel like you're being taken for a ride.

Am I overestimating people's abilities? Do they just not feel like it? Am I perhaps really getting screwed? What is usually the reason?

Many thanks in advance

The easiest way to explain something that isn't understood the first time is using relatable examples. Sometimes people don't get in unless you can relate it to something they are familiar with. You might not understand how DHCP and IP addresses work but if I explain it like, it is a computer's way of giving you a phone number so that another computer can reach out then you might understand better.

 

[winjer]

Always consider Hanlon’s Razor:

“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”

 

[Ikutachi]

 

[Deleted member 1159]

OP thinks black matter and brain surgery are complicated lmfao

 

[Wildebeest]

The best way to clearly communicate an idea is to bury it in 40 minutes of waffling about all sorts of things, many of them being just how you feel about things totally irrelevant to the point.

 

[Robot Carnival]

 

[Hudo]

What's your target audience? Experts in your domain in your field? Experts in adjacent domains to yours? Experts in a related field to yours? ... People with no prior knowledge about your field? Like, e.g., you are a mathematician and you want to explain to a type theory guy why operads are interesting vs to a carpenter why operads are interesting.

Think about what the core messages or ideas are that you want to communicate (which also depends on your target audience). Think about if you can use metaphors or analogies that might be more familiar to your audience. Think about how deep you really need to go in order to communicate what you want to communicate. And then try to explain it to a wall or a rubber duck on your desk. That's a test if you yourself actually understand the topic. Try to engage your audience by asking them questions. And be careful not to "talk down" to them. They might not have a clue about your field and domain of expertise, that doesn't mean they're stupid nor should they ever get the feeling that they are when they listen to you.

 

[Trunx81]

Can someone explain why this thread is a gold mine now?
Please use simple words.

 

[FeralEcho]

 

[Lord Panda]

 

[John Marston]

Can someone explain why this thread is a gold mine now?
Please use simple words.

It was vague enough to warrant some Gafting but not really silly?

Anyway I'm done for today

 

[Nydius]

Reminded me of this little anecdote.
Most relevant part in bold.

Back in the 1980s, Yosemite National Park was having a serious problem with bears: They would wander into campgrounds and break into the garbage bins. This put both bears and people at risk. So the Park Service started installing armored garbage cans that were tricky to open—you had to swing a latch, align two bits of handle, that sort of thing. But it turns out it’s actually quite tricky to get the design of these cans just right. Make it too complex and people can’t get them open to put away their garbage in the first place. Said one park ranger, “There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists.”

 

[Grildon Tundy]

In cases at work when I've struggled to communicate something I feel that I know well, it's been because I'm describing in terms I understand (technical, back-end details) whereas the folks I'm working with care about what it looks like in the front-end as end-users. So it's a matter of perspective/understanding the audience and adjusting what I do based on that. I have not come close to mastering this, and it's a goal of mine to continue to improve on.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Some people just dont give a shit.

I can tell some people at work a million times how to do basic Excel or database clicking this or that or formulas. They'll never get it even though they are smart enough to know how to use PCs.

 

[Rayderism]

Some people refuse to learn something new at work for fear that it will be yet another thing they'll be expected to do everyday.

 

[Drake]

yep, one of my favorite quotes and I think it most likely applies to OP here.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I

 

[Facism]

I believe in you, OP

 

[bitbydeath]

Am I overestimating people's abilities? Do they just not feel like it? Am I perhaps really getting screwed? What is usually the reason?

Yes.

 

[cash_longfellow]

 

[Putonahappyface]

 

[Bloobs]

John Marston the real simpleton

 

[Peggies]

I

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Many thanks for the gift John Marston .

 

[Dunkelgrau]

Many thanks for the gift John Marston .

Yeah, same here!

 

[IDKFA]

Hey GAF!

The following may sound a bit strange at first, but let's see where it takes us...

Imagine you have to explain something to a person or even a very small group of people. Nothing complicated, like brain surgery or black matter: let's just say the basic functions of NeoGAF or an instant messenger like WhatsApp or Telegram. Let's also assume that these people would basically be able to understand the whole thing (so your 101-year-old grandmother wasn't there).

And: It just doesn't work! Your desperation is growing and you sometimes feel like you're being taken for a ride.

Am I overestimating people's abilities? Do they just not feel like it? Am I perhaps really getting screwed? What is usually the reason?

Many thanks in advance

What's the context behind this post?

Have you struggled to explain something recently? What were you trying to explain? How did you deliver it?

We need more to go on in order to answer this question.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

The human race has become a monkey with a smartphone.

 

[Dunkelgrau]

The human race has become a monkey with a smartphone.

John Marston Do your job!

 

[Dunkelgrau]

Thanks for all the answers!

What's the context behind this post?

When I wrote this post, I was primarily thinking of the following three situations:

1. A new system was introduced in a department at my former employer. The system sucked, it wasn't my idea, but there was no way around it. I was responsible for explaining this to a handful of other employees. It worked quite well so far, but the head of department (a classic older craftsman without much knowledge of computers), couldn't cope with it at all (or at least pretended to). Over a period of around one and a half year he asked me the same questions over and over again. (I'm sure that sooner or later this would have landed me in a psychiatric ward.) To this day, I still wonder what exactly was going on back then.

2. I have created a gaming group in a messenger. Due to the system, the whole thing was not very intuitive, but if you understood and paid attention to a little something, it was no problem at all. (You also have to say that gamers tend to be younger and tech-savvy.) In any case, the project failed completely because around half of the people didn't understand this one small point. (Incidentally, it wasn't my fault or my idea, but that of the Telegram developers.)

3. Within this group, I have made the events as idiot-proof as possible: Date, time, game ... For one event, I wrote that this time - due to another event - it will not be possible to travel by car. I hope I don't have to write that someone wanted to come by car because he didn't read that… To be honest, it drives me to despair, when people these days are overwhelmed by a primitive text like "date, time, game X and it will not be possible to come by car because of Y".

 

[John Marston]

Thanks for all the answers!


When I wrote this post, I was primarily thinking of the following three situations:

1. A new system was introduced in a department at my former employer. The system sucked, it wasn't my idea, but there was no way around it. I was responsible for explaining this to a handful of other employees. It worked quite well so far, but the head of department (a classic older craftsman without much knowledge of computers), couldn't cope with it at all (or at least pretended to). Over a period of around one and a half year he asked me the same questions over and over again. (I'm sure that sooner or later this would have landed me in a psychiatric ward.) To this day, I still wonder what exactly was going on back then.

2. I have created a gaming group in a messenger. Due to the system, the whole thing was not very intuitive, but if you understood and paid attention to a little something, it was no problem at all. (You also have to say that gamers tend to be younger and tech-savvy.) In any case, the project failed completely because around half of the people didn't understand this one small point. (Incidentally, it wasn't my fault or my idea, but that of the Telegram developers.)

3. Within this group, I have made the events as idiot-proof as possible: Date, time, game ... For one event, I wrote that this time - due to another event - it will not be possible to travel by car. I hope I don't have to write that someone wanted to come by car because he didn't read that… To be honest, it drives me to despair, when people these days are overwhelmed by a primitive text like "date, time, game X and it will not be possible to come by car because of Y".

Just like Zack Snyder your Director's cut is much better.

 

[Dunkelgrau]

Just like Zack Snyder your Director's cut is much better.

It's far too long, comes too late and nobody watches it anymore?

 

[dave_d]

When anybody posts this I will always retort, "You don't know Jack, literally." (Yes I'm referring to a professor I had once. It's a bit of a story.)

 

[BadBurger]

Hey GAF!

The following may sound a bit strange at first, but let's see where it takes us...

Imagine you have to explain something to a person or even a very small group of people. Nothing complicated, like brain surgery or black matter: let's just say the basic functions of NeoGAF or an instant messenger like WhatsApp or Telegram. Let's also assume that these people would basically be able to understand the whole thing (so your 101-year-old grandmother wasn't there).

And: It just doesn't work! Your desperation is growing and you sometimes feel like you're being taken for a ride.

Am I overestimating people's abilities? Do they just not feel like it? Am I perhaps really getting screwed? What is usually the reason?

Many thanks in advance

I think maybe I am one of these people you're referring to.

 

[dispensergoinup]

It's probably not one thing that's the roadblock for most but a combination of resistance to change, new technology that is unfamiliar (or too complicated) even to tech familiar folks, and apathy to whatever's going on.

So however you explain it, it wont matter if some of the above are in the mix.

Edit: I will add that sometimes it takes time or a different approach (like explaining it in person instead of on chat) that can help quite a bit. But of course, if there's no interest then that's gunna be a losing battle on your part.

 

[Dunkelgrau]

I think maybe I am one of these people you're referring to.

You were intellectually capable of creating an account here. So I don't think so.