Support NeoGAF

[Lunatic_Gamer]

AMD is the first to implement Microsoft Pluton

AMD is launching its Ryzen 6000 laptop processors today, and they’re the first to include Microsoft’s new Pluton security processor. It’s a new security chip that’s designed to bring Xbox-like security to Windows PCs, to secure hardware and cryptographic keys.

Microsoft has taken its learnings from Xbox, which has physical attack protections, to try to bring similar protections to Windows PCs. Pluton is essentially an evolution of the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) that’s baked directly into the CPU.

“Ryzen 6000 series will be the first PC processors that integrate the Microsoft Pluton security processor,” explained AMD CEO Lisa Su during a CES 2022 press conference today. “Our co-development work with Microsoft eliminates entire attack vectors on notebooks, better protecting critical data like system credentials, user identities, encryption keys, and personal information.”

AMD beats Intel with first CPUs that have Xbox-like security for Windows

AMD is the first to include Microsoft Pluton security.

www.theverge.com

 

[splattered]

Wow that's actually awesome. FK HACKERS.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Mama Su

 

[Kenpachii]

Standard has already been set by windows 11 TPM, pluton is completely useless.

 

[DenchDeckard]

i Just need to be told when it’s good for my 8700k pc to be updated to windows 11….then I’ll buy a new pc.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Standard has already been set by windows 11 TPM, pluton is completely useless.

Reading the above:

Pluton is essentially an evolution of the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) that’s baked directly into the CPU.

Sounds like Pluton is TPM but baked in CPU hardware. Not seeing how that's useless.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

NeoGaf: Does this mean I can freely surf all my favourite dodgy porn sites without fear of being infected by spyware or malware?

MS: lol, no!

 

[Kenpachii]

Reading the above:



Sounds like Pluton is TPM but baked in CPU hardware. Not seeing how that's useless.

Not seeing how that's useful in any way as nothing will be requiring it.

 

[JackSparr0w]

Anybody who sees this as a win is a complete moron. Microsoft has been trying to gain control over the last personal device that you actually own (PC) for decades and they seem that they will finally succeed.

 

[Sophist]

"security"

Not at all, it is just more obscure shit to enforce DRM. Always has been. Like HDCP, ARM TrustZone, ...

 

[IFireflyl]

I thought I read somewhere that gaming performance increased in Windows 11 with TPM turned off. If I'm wrong then cool, but if that's the case then a version of TPM that can't be turned off doesn't sound great to me. I'm sick with Covid, so I'll have to look that up in a bit.

Edit:

It looks like I was wrong. It is VBS that causes the performance hit. VBS requires TPM to be enabled, but it doesn't look like TPM itself is an issue. I'll blame this mistake on my fever, lol.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Anybody who sees this as a win is a complete moron. Microsoft has been trying to gain control over the last personal device that you actually own (PC) for decades and they seem that they will finally succeed.

Can you explain how they're gaining control over your personal device? I'm pro making my computer more unfuckwithable.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Better security is always great news.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Anybody who sees this as a win is a complete moron. Microsoft has been trying to gain control over the last personal device that you actually own (PC) for decades and they seem that they will finally succeed.

 

[MonarchJT]

Anybody who sees this as a win is a complete moron. Microsoft has been trying to gain control over the last personal device that you actually own (PC) for decades and they seem that they will finally succeed.

man ....a time when the internet was not so dominant .. I could have agreed with you but unfortunately the same people who understand more about computer science (hackers among them) have made the use of the PC so unsafe that at this point the majority are willing to lose some control in favor of more carefree use and personal safety.Same reason why Apple is finally gaining market in the world of personal computers. Windows is not the only operating system ... and I think that today computers are devices that, like phones, need maximum security even for those who are not PC wizards. Anything that makes Windows more secure is welcome ... anyone who wants 100% complete freedom on their machine can install Linux

 

[JackSparr0w]

Can you explain how they're gaining control over your personal device? I'm pro making my computer more unfuckwithable.

You can start here https://secret.club/2021/06/28/windows11-tpms.html and then look into "TPM attestation". There is literally nothing they can not control in the future apart from your choice to not use Windows.

man ....a time when the internet was not so dominant .. I could have agreed with you but unfortunately the same people who understand more about computer science (hackers among them) have made the use of the PC so unsafe that at this point the majority are willing to lose some control in favor of more carefree use and personal safety.

PCs have become unsafe to use? They have never been safer, even viruses are memes and a thing of the past. The only times you can get hacked these days is when companies get breached and lose your data or you use "1234567" for a password and with 2FA you can use "pleasehackme" as a password for everything and nothing can happen. When a company tells you that you absolutely need something for your own safety and security you know it 99% benefits them.

 

[MonarchJT]

You can start here https://secret.club/2021/06/28/windows11-tpms.html and then look into "TPM attestation". There is literally nothing they can not control in the future apart from your choice to not use Windows.


PCs have become unsafe to use? They have never been safer, even viruses are memes and a thing of the past. The only times you can get hacked these days is when companies get breached and lose your data or you use "1234567" for a password.

become unsafe when internet start to become so dominant in the use of the device ....and especially when the use of (real) sensitive personal data and especially the use of bank accounts and credit cards have grown so much .... the risks have increased exponentially. If 25 years ago the average user was infected with a virus or malware, a quick format and everything came back okay ...
Windows must become more secure even at the expense of losing those who want 100% control over the device.

 

[Drew1440]

As long as I can duel boot Linux and it won't get in the way of modifying system files. Though comparing it to a locked down console is not a good sign.

 

[JackSparr0w]

As long as I can duel boot Linux and it won't get in the way of modifying system files. Though comparing it to a locked down console is not a good sign.

No chance. Your PC will be flagged as untrustworthy because who knows what kind of piracy tools you could be running on your Linux distro. Of course this won't happen this year or next but the pieces are now moving together at an alarming speed.

Want something that will happen much sooner? VPNs will become absolutely useless as TPM and especially Pluton makes your PC identifiable anywhere in the world.

 

[IntentionalPun]

This stuff is largely for the enterprise space; work laptops and whatnot.

But I see people are properly overreacting to it lol

 

[Panajev2001a]

become unsafe when internet start to become so dominant in the use of the device ....and especially when the use of (real) sensitive personal data and especially the use of bank accounts and credit cards have grown so much .... the risks have increased exponentially. If 25 years ago the average user was infected with a virus or malware, a quick format and everything came back okay ...
Windows must become more secure even at the expense of losing those who want 100% control over the device.

Most of the risks you mention have nothing to do with your own machine security (welcome companies amassing and losing your personal data, including debit/credit card details [you enter them in your own account]), while this will be fun when it gets used not only to invade privacy rights being able to create a profile of your exact machine and tracking it uniquely globally (then again MS jumped with glee into PRISM), but for DRM… bye bye to lots of deals, region hopping, VPN’s, etc…

There must be a better way to provide security to users without invading on privacy rights this much and control, but why bother if people jump into the pan on their own .

 

[Dream-Knife]

man ....a time when the internet was not so dominant .. I could have agreed with you but unfortunately the same people who understand more about computer science (hackers among them) have made the use of the PC so unsafe that at this point the majority are willing to lose some control in favor of more carefree use and personal safety.Same reason why Apple is finally gaining market in the world of personal computers. Windows is not the only operating system ... and I think that today computers are devices that, like phones, need maximum security even for those who are not PC wizards. Anything that makes Windows more secure is welcome ... anyone who wants 100% complete freedom on their machine can install Linux

How are you getting "hacked" or computer viruses in this day and age? Don't use P2P (Kazaa, Limewire, etc if those are even still around) and don't go on shady porn sites. Since the XP era if you followed those rules you would be fine.

Mac has been a consistent 8-10% for a decade (a large chunk of which is K-12). Mac isn't a closed system yet either (probably will be in a few years though).

 

[Tams]

Mama Su

Golf bros are weird. Bizarre 'sport'.

 

[Three]

Wow that's actually awesome. FK HACKERS.

"physical attack protections"

This shit only causes problems really with data recovery and it's meant to stop mod chips/soft mods etc on consoles. It's only good if you work in some high security place like the CIA or something and have your laptop stolen. Otherwise nobody is going to go to the extreme lengths required here to look at your family photos.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

Standard has already been set by windows 11 TPM, pluton is completely useless.

what you even talking about?

yeah 11 requires a tpm...so what? pluton is an evolution of that. pluton is built into cpus but that doesn't make it much different from TPM2.0 because infact most people don't actually own physical TPM modules and attach them to their motherboards. instead they are built into the firmware of motherboards and the CPU is used to make a virtualised TPM. this kind of TPM is called fTPM. my pc can run windows 11 and i don't have a physical TPM so my CPU does it through firmware/virtualisation.

so really not much will change with Pluton. it seems like it's just gonna be an fTPM and the CPU/motherboard will communicate with each other. Pluton is essentially just "TPM3.0" in a way.

 

[MonarchJT]

Most of the risks you mention have nothing to do with your own machine security (welcome companies amassing and losing your personal data, including debit/credit card details [you enter them in your own account]), while this will be fun when it gets used not only to invade privacy rights being able to create a profile of your exact machine and tracking it uniquely globally (then again MS jumped with glee into PRISM), but for DRM… bye bye to lots of deals, region hopping, VPN’s, etc…

There must be a better way to provide security to users without invading on privacy rights this much and control, but why bother if people jump into the pan on their own .

I'm talking about the most blatant keylogger ....and how much ur password and account are potentially are unsecure today. privacy rights are a things ...impossibility on the part of developers to really protect the system because for decades they have compatriated against a loud minority that wants total control over the machine (like Linux) is another topic. As I said, unfortunately today using the device is hundreds of times more risky than 25 years ago for the simple reason that the type of use is much more mainstream

 

[Unknown?]

No chance. Your PC will be flagged as untrustworthy because who knows what kind of piracy tools you could be running on your Linux distro. Of course this won't happen this year or next but the pieces are now moving together at an alarming speed.

Want something that will happen much sooner? VPNs will become absolutely useless as TPM and especially Pluton makes your PC identifiable anywhere in the world.

Glad my PC has Linux, coreboot, and IME disabled.

 

[JackSparr0w]

Glad my PC has Linux, coreboot, and IME disabled.

My plan is to switch to Linux and use Windows for strictly only gaming.

 

[Unknown?]

My plan is to switch to Linux and use Windows for strictly only gaming.

With Proton and Lutris like 90% or even more games run on Linux and without Windows bloat they can run even better in some cases. You may not even need Windows.

Try to get a device with coreboot so that you're not using proprietary firmware. If you have an Intel chip, disable the Intel management engine if possible too.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

My plan is to switch to Linux and use Windows for strictly only gaming.

i'd love to go to linux but every time i try something goes wrong and i'm not even trying to play games on it. i wanted to dual boot so linux would be for daily normal use and then i'd boot to windows for games.

linux is a nightmare to deal with and it's a pain in the ass getting the most basic things done. i suppose if you really know what you're doing and/or have the patience to troubleshoot then it's fine but Linux is not ready for the average user.

 

[Unknown?]

i'd love to go to linux but every time i try something goes wrong and i'm not even trying to play games on it. i wanted to dual boot so linux would be for daily normal use and then i'd boot to windows for games.

linux is a nightmare to deal with and it's a pain in the ass getting the most basic things done. i suppose if you really know what you're doing and/or have the patience to troubleshoot then it's fine but Linux is not ready for the average user.

Never had problems with it working. Although I do have a laptop made for Linux.

 

[Kenpachii]

what you even talking about?

yeah 11 requires a tpm...so what? pluton is an evolution of that. pluton is built into cpus but that doesn't make it much different from TPM2.0 because infact most people don't actually own physical TPM modules and attach them to their motherboards. instead they are built into the firmware of motherboards and the CPU is used to make a virtualised TPM. this kind of TPM is called fTPM. my pc can run windows 11 and i don't have a physical TPM so my CPU does it through firmware/virtualisation.

so really not much will change with Pluton. it seems like it's just gonna be an fTPM and the CPU/motherboard will communicate with each other. Pluton is essentially just "TPM3.0" in a way.

So what if you buy pluton cpu's, and pluton 2 is now required 4 years later and your platform is no longer supported? U need to upgrade your CPU, motherbboard so u can have compatibility?

What if its on the motherboard and u just update your bios that needs a update or slam in one of those for a few bucks and call it a day?

What do you prefer?

The fact is simple, pluton will never be used because its baked into cpu's and therefore gives it a hardware requirement. The moment pluton will get used its already outdated and older cpu's are simple not capable of doing so which requires updating of hardware. ( also a reason why tpm 2.0 kills w11 adoption big time )

And if you slam both solutions cpu and motherboard forwards, then CPU is again useless.

TPM 2.0 has been set as standard for w11, tons of people that buy prebuilds or laptops will be on those things for half a decade if not longer and they will need to support it or else large swamps of people will simple not move forwards.

Maybe u get it now.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I got a new job that forced me to daily drive Linux, now I cannot go back to Windows for anything except gaming. My main desktop PC is dualbooting into both. I am not going to ever upgrade to Windows 11, once 10 gets obsoleted I will VM 11 inside Linux for the (hopefully) few games that still need windows.

 

[chaseroni]

Most CPUs have TPM virtualization built into the chip anyways...but judging by this thread not a lot realize that

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Anybody who sees this as a win is a complete moron. Microsoft has been trying to gain control over the last personal device that you actually own (PC) for decades and they seem that they will finally succeed.

Yup, this is the worst part of list wars... people listing bad features as "good" because they are on their side.

 

[markusho3k]

Btw, here's microsoft talking about it's beloved security chip:

CES 2022: Chip to cloud security: Pluton-powered Windows 11 PCs are coming

As we enter this new year, security remains a top concern as businesses continue to evolve and define their digital transformation strategies and what hybrid work means for their organizations and their employees. Over the last year, we've seen a

blogs.windows.com

I found an interesting higlights in this document:
*Supporting the needs of our customers is always a top priority, which is why Pluton can be configured in three ways: as the Trusted Platform Module; as a security processor used for non-TPM scenarios like platform resiliency; or OEMs can choose to ship with Pluton turned off.

Also, call me ignorant btw but I think this is just another layer to combat piracy once for all: the chip protects encryption keys, among other sensitive data in Win11. Then if MS forces encourages game devs to encrypt all the packaged games in other stores (aside of MS's own) and store the decryption in this chip. Say goodbye to mods too.

 

[JackSparr0w]

i'd love to go to linux but every time i try something goes wrong and i'm not even trying to play games on it. i wanted to dual boot so linux would be for daily normal use and then i'd boot to windows for games.

linux is a nightmare to deal with and it's a pain in the ass getting the most basic things done. i suppose if you really know what you're doing and/or have the patience to troubleshoot then it's fine but Linux is not ready for the average user.

Major corporations use linux daily so the problem lies with you.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

Awesome, more "security", less liberty.

Enjoy your new life, it's coming.

 

[iHaunter]

Anybody who sees this as a win is a complete moron. Microsoft has been trying to gain control over the last personal device that you actually own (PC) for decades and they seem that they will finally succeed

Get your CPU hacked and blown up if you want. Not my job, not my prob, going to the warehouse to polish my knob.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

I have to agree with the more cynical posters. This is just more control for MS. These companies can't wait to have us all on thin clients.

 

[plushyp]

I got a new job that forced me to daily drive Linux, now I cannot go back to Windows for anything except gaming. My main desktop PC is dualbooting into both. I am not going to ever upgrade to Windows 11, once 10 gets obsoleted I will VM 11 inside Linux for the (hopefully) few games that still need windows.

Which distro are you using?

 

[Hari Seldon]

Which distro are you using?

Ubuntu 20.04 IIRC.

 

[KuraiShidosha]

I'm calling it now: Windows will eventually do away with local administrator accounts and all the custom software we run for cool tweaks and modifications will all outright be blocked one day. Just wait.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

i Just need to be told when it’s good for my 8700k pc to be updated to windows 11….then I’ll buy a new pc.

Same here, I decided to wait because unholy MB prices and limited choice (almost no ITX boards) and I think I want DDR4 version.

 

[IntentionalPun]

TPM is not going to be used to encrypt your games / stop moding / anything to do with piracy.

TPM simply makes what is already possible (enforcing only signed code executes for instance) is more secure, because things like certs are stored in a much harder to crack separate hardware module.

So are things like passwords and other info that should be kept private. Software that wants to store passwords or credit card numbers/etc. is more secure w/ a TPM.

It's really not piracy related, at all... people have been harping about that for nearly 2 decades and TPM and similar things have not been used for that in the consumer space and there's no indication WIndows 11/TPM enforcement is going to start it.

 

[Paulistano]

Yeah, let's trust Microsoft what could go wrong...

 

[MightySquirrel]

Awesome, more "security", less liberty.

Enjoy your new life, it's coming.

This is/was exclusive to pApple owners so far.