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[Draugoth]

AMD returned to the enthusiast tier with the Radeon RX 6900 and later the 7900 series, both of which offer competitive price-to-performance ratios against NVIDIA’s GeForce RTX 30 and 40 series. Jack was asked by TH’s Paul Alcorn’s about competing in the high-end GPU market with NVIDIA, here’s how he responded:

I’m looking at scale, and AMD is in a different place right now. We have this debate quite a bit at AMD, right? So the question I ask is, the PlayStation 5, do you think that’s hurting us? It’s $499. So, I ask, is it fun to go King of the Hill? Again, I’m looking for scale. Because when we get scale, then I bring developers with us.
So, my number one priority right now is to build scale, to get us to 40 to 50 percent of the market faster. Do I want to go after 10% of the TAM [Total Addressable Market] or 80%? I’m an 80% kind of guy because I don’t want AMD to be the company that only people who can afford Porsches and Ferraris can buy. We want to build gaming systems for millions of users.
Yes, we will have great, great, great products. But we tried that strategy [King of the Hill] — it hasn’t really grown. ATI has tried this King of the Hill strategy, and the market share has kind of been…the market share. I want to build the best products at the right system price point. So, think about price point-wise; we’ll have leadership.

— Jack Hyunh to Tom’s Hardware

 

[ap_puff]

But people buy down the product stack because you have the halo product that's the king of the hill. So many people buy nvidia because they have the 4090s of the world, even if they're ripping you off with the -60 and -70 tier cards.

Bruh

 

[asdasdasdbb]

The problem with doing that is people end up buying the previous gen cards instead.

 

[Zathalus]

The same old story when they get demolished by Nvidia. I think this might be the fourth or fifth time they are not targeting the high end. Always the same excuse about how they want to target the average gamer, or how nobody buys flagship GPUs.

 

[winjer]

The low and mid range is where there are more sales to be made. So it's a good place to bet on.
But it's in the high end, where the bigger profit margins are. And Nvidia is making a killing in this range.

 

[Buggy Loop]

But people buy down the product stack because you have the halo product that's the king of the hill. So many people buy nvidia because they have the 4090s of the world, even if they're ripping you off with the -60 and -70 tier cards.

Bruh

Uh? No cmon.

Flagships are epeen wars I agree, but peoples aren't just buying Nvidia because the flagship wins. There's a long list of additional pros for the money and over a decade of reputation that you're buying the top.

AMD is right to go for the mid tier, but if they just price -$50 compared to Nvidia mid tier, then its all for nothing, again.

 

[Mownoc]

Excellent. Midrange is what I buy.

 

[Nikodemos]

But people buy down the product stack because you have the halo product that's the king of the hill. So many people buy nvidia because they have the 4090s of the world, even if they're ripping you off with the -60 and -70 tier cards.

Bruh

True. Nvidia's market share started rising a lot after they introduced the Titan versions, even though their run-of-the-mill cards weren't that much better than AMD's at the time.
Halo products are important, because they're aspirational. Even if the lower-tier products are unremarkable, people still buy the dream.

 

[Fake]

RT was a mistake.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I feel like we've heard this a few times over the years. Usually when they just can't compete with Nvidia's top end.

I really hope Intel doesn't cut GPUs and keeps trying, we need a shakeup in the duopoly.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

RT was a mistake.

It's worked out well for nvidia.

 

[P:axMagellanic]

Both companies are still shipping 8 and 12 gig E-waste to the mid range these days. Nvidia is truly deplorable for what they charge however.

 

[Shubh_C63]

Doesn't really affects a lot of people I suppose.

I can never buy a flagship GPU. RTX 4090 costs 3200$ in India so yeah.

 

[SantaC]

This is the reason Nvidia is taking their sweet time with 5000 series. No competition.

Bad for gamers

 

[Hudo]

I can never buy a flagship GPU. RTX 4090 costs 3200$ in India so yeah.

Holy shit, that's 1,158,080.00 Zimbabwe Dollars.

 

[RagnarokIV]

AMD returned to the enthusiast tier with the Radeon RX 6900 and later the 7900 series, both of which offer competitive price-to-performance ratios

Even as an owner of a 7900 XTX, fucken what?
Hopefully by the time I need to upgrade next Intel will be making strides.

 

[simpatico]

They could make a killing by figuring out how to get xx70 performance for 60% the price of Nvidia. That’s what they’ve always done best. They never really contended on the flagship level. Do R&D on how to get insane value stuff

 

[BennyBlanco]

RT was a mistake.

For AMD maybe

 

[Senua]

Excellent. Midrange is what I buy.

It's not excellent, it's less competition for Nvidia

 

[SolidQ]

This is the reason Nvidia is taking their sweet time with 5000 series. No competition.

You mean 5080\5090? for 5060\5070 there is competition = mass market

 

[OverHeat]

Meh 5090 lock and loaded

 

[MikeM]

Their receipts likely reflect that this is best. Why invest in larger chips to flagships when you can allocate that wafer to AI for far more margin?

 

[Mownoc]

It's not excellent, it's less competition for Nvidia

In the high-end, but potentially stronger competition for the mid-range which is a larger share of the market anyway.

 

[Senua]

In the high-end, but potentially stronger competition for the mid-range which is a larger share of the market anyway.

I doubt it lol.

 

[intbal]

He's probably speculating that Cloud gaming will improve sufficiently to drive high-end "local" GPUs into extinction.

 

[TheRaidenPT]

Alright, so let' me say this as a 7900XTX owner and as an AMD/NVIDIA/Broadcom/TSMC investor.

I completely understand it, there's literally 1 person in real life I know that has one (among my best friends) and some bunch of guys from /r/raedeon that actually has anything above a 7800XT. That's simply because it doesn't make any sense. The only reason I have the 7900XTX is due to being an open box deal at 780€ and the fact that I hate to use upscales at 3440x1440.

AMD's situation and focus is on the Datacenter, we all know that and I'd rather have them go that route and only chase performance at mid range on the PC. Their main market for gaming revenue comes from consoles and they already will have an 'Halo' product there with the PS5 Pro.

When it comes to PC Gaming they indeed need to focus on the low-mid end segment (even though I think the low end sector will become an APU one in the future)

Now for them to have success they need to focus on the 8600/8700/8800 line up with good pricing and good incentives. Also they need to continue with the software stack to their last gen owners, that's really really important.

 

[MarV0]

They could make a killing by figuring out how to get xx70 performance for 60% the price of Nvidia. That’s what they’ve always done best. They never really contended on the flagship level. Do R&D on how to get insane value stuff

So if Nvidia charges $500 for an xx70 gpu you want AMD to charge $300 for the same performance?

Man Nvidia fanboys are something else...

 

[BennyBlanco]

AMD has been so behind in their tech for so long. FSR sucks. Their frame gen stuff is just getting started. Their most expensive cards can’t really use raytracing.

Nvidia is riding the AI wave for all its worth and making absurd profits doing it. AMD always felt like they were 2 steps behind Nvidia and playing catchup, but by the time they caught up Nvidia was already on to the next thing. If Nvidia drastically shifted resources away from their GPU business to chase AI money maybe AMD can finally catch up. But all that remains to be seen. I hope they can finally get it together.

 

[RoboFu]

That is some MS thinking there. " oh our RT performance isn't up to current standards ... what should we do....... lets kill the top cards!

but really its seemed like they already made this decision years ago.

 

[kittoo]

Doesn't really affects a lot of people I suppose.

I can never buy a flagship GPU. RTX 4090 costs 3200$ in India so yeah.

It's about $2800, but your point stands. Maybe you can get it for $2500 if you wait for sales and scour the net etc. I was able to get a 3080 at launch for about $900 this way, at the height of covid and crypto craziness.
Anyway what's the price of 4090 in US? $2000?

 

[ap_puff]

Uh? No cmon.

Flagships are epeen wars I agree, but peoples aren't just buying Nvidia because the flagship wins. There's a long list of additional pros for the money and over a decade of reputation that you're buying the top.

AMD is right to go for the mid tier, but if they just price -$50 compared to Nvidia mid tier, then its all for nothing, again.

Be real. No one is buying a -60 or -70 level card and turning on max path tracing in games. Vast majority of people turn on RT once, see that it runs like dog shit, then turn it off again. People are buying nvidia based off of the reputation created by the halo products.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

So Nvidia will reach 99% market share

 

[kittoo]

I feel that AMD's problem is not even price or competing at high end. It's the software stack. Nvidia is so far ahead that even if I got the same AMD card at like 70% of price, I still might go for Nvidia. From DLSS to Frame generation to RTX HDR to Ray tracing solutions, Nvidia is in a different league altogether.

 

[Shubh_C63]

It's about $2800, but your point stands. Maybe you can get it for $2500 if you wait for sales and scour the net etc. I was able to get a 3080 at launch for about $900 this way, at the height of covid and crypto craziness.
Anyway what's the price of 4090 in US? $2000?

In US, about 2400$ I think.
2.5Lacs for a GPU is insane. I will just wait for a xx70 variant once GTA6 releases.

 

[Bashtee]

It's worked out well for nvidia.

Not because of RT. CUDA cores in general and being the market leader for everything AI. RT is a footnote, at best. For gaming DLSS and FSR are good benefits, but that took some time to cook.

So if Nvidia charges $500 for an xx70 gpu you want AMD to charge $300 for the same performance?

Man Nvidia fanboys are something else...

They want cheap AMD cards, so that NVIDIA has to lower their prices, too. And then they would buy the NVIDIA cards.

 

[Fake]

It's worked out well for nvidia.

Not so good for the others.

 

[Dorfdad]

The issue is not that they can’t compete because they have the talent to do that, however they would have to spend such a massive amount of money in R&D to just catch up that it’s facially irresponsible for them and their shareholders would not be happy.

What they need to do is to vastly improve their APU’s for consoles at a reduced cost. This would allow consoles to get really close to pc performance at a much cheaper cost giving them scale with mass console sales.

They also need to improve drivers. Nvidia is much better and faster addressing things.

 

[kittoo]

In US, about 2400$ I think.
2.5Lacs for a GPU is insane. I will just wait for a xx70 variant once GTA6 releases.

Yeah agree with that. I remember building my first cutting edge PC in 2007, for about 85000 total cost (including monitor). In 2013 I shelled out about 100,000 total. Not bad still. Suddenly in 2020 the total cost escalated to 150,000 (mainly because of 75k GPU) but now my next one in 2025 seems it might cost 300,000, which is crazy. Add the cost of 65" OLEDs and we are looking at 500,000. That's some serious dough.

Not to mention my wife might kill me too.

 

[Gaiff]

The low and mid range is where there are more sales to be made. So it's a good place to bet on.
But it's in the high end, where the bigger profit margins are. And Nvidia is making a killing in this range.

They're getting destroyed in the low and mid ranges too. It's a trickle-down effect, really. NVIDVA's lower-tier cards are just cut-down versions of their higher-end models. Almost all of the features are there, but they just perform worse overall. The news isn't any better for AMD at the lower end. People will still overwhelmingly choose the 3060 over the 6700/XT.

 

[winjer]

They're getting destroyed in the low and mid-ranges too.

They have won on the low end, with the APUs.
But yes, in the mid range, AMD is also losing hard.

 

[SolidQ]

Man Nvidia fanboys are something else...

They have RX6600 which 30% faster and cheaper, than RTX 3050, and 3050 still outsold RX6600, and NVIDIA doesn't have any good cards 150-500$, and people still buy trash cards from NV. That users problem have in head, not AMD.

 

[simpatico]

So if Nvidia charges $500 for an xx70 gpu you want AMD to charge $300 for the same performance?

Man Nvidia fanboys are something else...

They did that already. HD4870 vs 280 GTX. That was the literal price gap in what everyone remembers as the ATi heyday.

 

[P:axMagellanic]

Alright, so let' me say this as a 7900XTX owner and as an AMD/NVIDIA/Broadcom/TSMC investor.

I completely understand it, there's literally 1 person in real life I know that has one (among my best friends) and some bunch of guys from /r/raedeon that actually has anything above a 7800XT. That's simply because it doesn't make any sense. The only reason I have the 7900XTX is due to being an open box deal at 780€ and the fact that I hate to use upscales at 3440x1440.

AMD's situation and focus is on the Datacenter, we all know that and I'd rather have them go that route and only chase performance at mid range on the PC. Their main market for gaming revenue comes from consoles and they already will have an 'Halo' product there with the PS5 Pro.

When it comes to PC Gaming they indeed need to focus on the low-mid end segment (even though I think the low end sector will become an APU one in the future)

Now for them to have success they need to focus on the 8600/8700/8800 line up with good pricing and good incentives. Also they need to continue with the software stack to their last gen owners, that's really really important.

He makes perfect sense in the article. AMD have been thumbing their dicks into Intel's arsehole ever since Ryzen launched 7 years ago and they're still not equal in market share. That's how powerful their competition is, and it's because of volume.

 

[SolidQ]

they're still not equal in market share

OEM not easy to take

 

[ap_puff]

He makes perfect sense in the article. AMD have been thumbing their dicks into Intel's arsehole ever since Ryzen launched 7 years ago and they're still not equal in market share. That's how powerful their competition is, and it's because of volume.

thats also because intel has a lot of long term contracts with large OEMs and system integrators like dell and hp... as well as owning almost the entirety of the laptop market. with the raptor lake issues and a lot of their problems with security flaws things are starting to change though... but nvidia has never gotten complacent like intel has and wont as long as Jensen is in charge. They have the market over a barrel and it sucks for the consumer.

 

[Preseznik]

Uh? No cmon.

Flagships are epeen wars I agree, but peoples aren't just buying Nvidia because the flagship wins. There's a long list of additional pros for the money and over a decade of reputation that you're buying the top.

AMD is right to go for the mid tier, but if they just price -$50 compared to Nvidia mid tier, then its all for nothing, again.

Pretty sure buying a card that's ~20 off the brand number (4070 +20 = 4090) has a significat psychological effect on buying decisions.

For example, that's literally why car manufacturers build F1 cars and compete. That association with their championship level brand.

 

[FireFly]

They did that already. HD4870 vs 280 GTX. That was the literal price gap in what everyone remembers as the ATi heyday.

The GPU in the GTX 280 was almost double the size though. AMD had a big performance per area lead that they subsequently lost.

It's possible the AMD 8800 XT could be priced aggressively if Navi 48 isn't too much bigger than Navi 32.

 

[SplunkyMunkey]

I think it's mainly the pricing of the gpu. Amd is killing it with the cpus and apus in the console and handheld space. Sure nvidia has a power house with gpu side of things but comes at a high cost where amd wants it to be at an affordable cost that still gives u a high quality experience in gaming. I just hope one day amd will find a way to make powerful gpu that can compete with nvidia despite less cores etc etc similar to ryzen vs Intel cpu

 

[KuraiShidosha]

Posting in legendary thread.

 

[Wolzard]

The best-selling GPUs are mid-tier, the company's focus makes sense.
However, they just won't launch a flagship now, because the project didn't work out very well and in order not to delay, they will only launch the mids, the flagship should appear in RDNA 5.
Technically, it is a transition period, like Polaris and RDNA1.