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[NotWii]

says everything lol

 

[subversus]

. Won't be surprised if some countries in Africa copy this and Russia decides to try this.

Russia has been trying this for a decade and with success (thanks to oil). But the trick is that it doesn't really modernise its economic system or doing it very poorly and in favour of government oligarchs. So even with rising oil prices the economic system slowly dissipates.

But until 2008 no one in Russia gave a damn about democracy, elections and stuff like that. Basically no one cared who runs the country and how they do it because money were coming and life was sweet. Now there are cracks. People still don't really care but they've become aware.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

I have distaste towards China. And honestly, the source of it was underage female gymnasts.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Besides, although China clearly wants its moment in the sun, it doesn't seem particularly eager or able to lead. "When was the last time Beijing offered its own peace plan for the Arab-Israeli conflict, for instance?" asks Jonathan Eyal, Europe correspondent for the Straits Times in Singapore.

Seems like the article writer assumes china gives a shit about this.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Seems like the article writer assumes china gives a shit about this.

China gives a shit about China, and to a lesser extent the US. Same way a landlord doesn't really care about his tenants, but wants to make sure they aren't fucking shit up.

 

[Blackace]

Feels very 80s but replace China with Japan

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Feels very 80s but replace China with Japan

China has yet to win me over with video games and cool robots.

 

[spiderman123]

China has yet to win me over with video games and cool robots.

and porn

 

[Rentahamster]

says everything lol

"Hi there, I'm the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize winner! Say, I don't suppose you happen to know where the 2010 winner might be, huh?"

 

[spiderman123]

Well China is in an economic overheating right now, where it production cannot compensation for excess demand. This may lead to a recession but we'll see.....

 

[Bento]

One way they could remedy this is by encouraging those who have been driven away by the xenophobia in europe and israel to immigrate to china. Also you see some Chinese moving from China to Africa, the reverse should be happening as well.

Oh come on now it's not that bad in Europe :I There's still tons of people emigrating from Africa and the Middle East to us and the majority of people that live here choose not to leave so obviously this menacing xenophobia isn't scaring people off yet and for good reasons imo, shit simply ain't that bad. Also I'm not sure if China, or any East Asian country for that matter, is more tolerant towards minorities and their cultures/beliefs then Europe or the United States.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

and porn

No not porn. I can go the rest of my life without squeaky voiced, hairy bushed porn.

 

[Aad]

Let her sleep, for when she wakes she will shake the world.

 

[_Xenon_]

Some of you guys need to buy a ticket to China and have a good look at the country, seriously. Almost every single China related thread on Gaf makes me lol.

 

[delirium]

It's unknown to the public how much of the Chinese stealth fighter is stolen from American blueprints, but I remember reading a story about how when Lockheed did a security audit, they found like nearly all of their subcontractors had been subverted or something.

Anyway, the US military is moving away from manned planes and more into UAVs. There's a saying about manned fighter pilots: "The last American fighter pilot has already been born."

 

[Askia47]

It's unknown to the public how much of the Chinese stealth fighter is stolen from American blueprints, but I remember reading a story about how when Lockheed did a security audit, they found like nearly all of their subcontractors had been subverted or something.

Anyway, the US military is moving away from manned planes and more into UAVs. There's a saying about manned fighter pilots: "The last American fighter pilot has already been born."

China is probably developing their own UAVs as well, they are working on alot of secret projects few know about.

 

[MrHicks]

Feels very 80s but replace China with Japan

except that japan could never realistically challenge the US's status and "overtake" them as the worlds superpower

china has that potential

 

[ElectricBlue187]

There's no way of knowing that from a few seconds of footage. You can only go by "it looks cheap".

Apparently the internet has known about the J-20 and it's capabilities for months (around dec 2010 according to wikipedia) before the press caught on after the Chinese demonstration. I don't have any figured or anything just taking the impressions at their word

 

[Sanjay]

except that japan could never realistically challenge the US's status and "overtake" them as the worlds superpower

china has that potential

Yeah you can just nuke Japan again unlike China, they have nukes

I never really understand the allure of being the worlds "superpower" in this day and age. Always comes off as a pissing contest between countries. I see the future with no one "superpower" but a collaboration between powerful countries.

 

[Megadragon15]

Yeah you can just nuke Japan again unlike China, they have nukes

I never really understand the allure of being the worlds "superpower" in this day and age. Always comes off as a pissing contest between countries. I see the future with no one "superpower" but a collaboration between powerful countries.

You mean how it was prior to World War II?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

and porn

Come on, man. I'm eating breakfast here. Don't make me gag.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

You mean how it was prior to World War II?

Mega alliances squaring off != Capitalist nations cooperating through ever increasing globalization

 

[_Xenon_]

America shouldn't be afraid of China, instead you guys need to worry more about yourselves. This article just makes much more sense than the one in OP does:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/the-real-economic-lesson-_b_811230.html

But you know, it's always easier to blame undervalued yuan, or human rights, or whatever crap that can be found outside America.

 

[numble]

America shouldn't be afraid of China, instead you guys need to worry more about yourselves. This article just makes much more sense than the one in OP does:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/the-real-economic-lesson-_b_811230.html

But you know, it's always easier to blame undervalued yuan, or human rights, or whatever crap that can be found outside America.

Interesting article; I think it needs to be contrasted with this NY Times article on the glut of college-educated students in China:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/world/asia/12beijing.html

From my experience, this isn't really hitting people from top-tier universities, maybe not even second-tier schools as I know college grads from second-tier schools that were able to get good jobs in Beijing. It's also good for Chinese companies since they can choose amongst a lot of over-qualified people for jobs. But tons of disgruntled college grads, even if they are from crappy schools, is still a problem, especially with the rising costs of living in the big cities.

 

[charsace]

America has feared China for like the last 12 years. At the same time China itself has been preparing to implode. Some of the poor and disenfranchised citizens are starting to band together to make a grab for more (which they do deserve).

 

[Dalauz]

China got that magnetic train stuff first or something like that!

 

[_Xenon_]

Interesting article; I think it needs to be contrasted with this NY Times article on the glut of college-educated students in China:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/world/asia/12beijing.html

From my experience, this isn't really hitting people from top-tier universities, maybe not even second-tier schools as I know college grads from second-tier schools that were able to get good jobs in Beijing. It's also good for Chinese companies since they can choose amongst a lot of over-qualified people for jobs. But tons of disgruntled college grads, even if they are from crappy schools, is still a problem, especially with the rising costs of living in the big cities.

There's problem with the job market of course. There's also this problem that people tend to blindly believe they have a better chance to find good jobs in big cities and live a better life (Chinese version of America dream I guess). The reality is, Shanghai and Beijing are over packed by grads from other provinces and the real estate bubble only makes it worse. It's kind of funny because all of my non-Shanghai residing classmates have already built their family and paid off their houses while most of my Shanghai residing classmates are either still struggling with mortage, or thinking about moving back to their hometown.

 

[numble]

America has feared China for like the last 12 years. At the same time China itself has been preparing to implode. Some of the poor and disenfranchised citizens are starting to band together to make a grab for more (which they do deserve).

I think people have been saying that China has been preparing to implode for the last 60+ years. With KMT, warlord, and non-friendly controlled areas at the onset, to the outbreak of the Korean War on its borders, to the Great Leap Forward (where millions died), Cultural Revolution (chaos everywhere), the unrest in the 80s that led to the Tiananmen Square protests, to the growing inequality, human rights, and gender imbalance (a problem I think is overstated) today. They are problems to be sure, but I don't think it will be a cause for some type of revolutionary implosion, especially given the increasing nationalism of the populace.

 

[charsace]

I think people have been saying that China has been preparing to implode for the last 60+ years. With KMT, warlord, and non-friendly controlled areas at the onset, to the outbreak of the Korean War on its borders, to the Great Leap Forward (where millions died), Cultural Revolution (chaos everywhere), the unrest in the 80s that led to the Tiananmen Square protests, to the growing inequality, human rights, and gender imbalance (a problem I think is overstated) today. They are problems to be sure, but I don't think it will be a cause for some type of revolutionary implosion, especially given the increasing nationalism of the populace.

Some of those were implosions though. And it looks like something is going to happen again because of how globalization is taking shape there.

 

[numble]

Some of those were implosions though. And it looks like something is going to happen again because of how globalization is taking shape there.

I guess I see an implosion as something more dramatic--where the Communists fall out of power or the country splits up.

I think 2006-2009 were more dramatic in terms of population unrest. There have been reforms regarding labor laws and takeover of property since then, even relaxing of population control measures in some places that seems to have mollified things (they even let workers go on strike at major auto plants, which would be unheard of 2 years ago), though of course more can be done.

 

[tino]

I'm so sick of hearing people say this. Sure, ancient China was the major power in their region, but when did their influence ever spread across the globe? They got beat the hell down by multiple powers, and the China of today is very different than the various Chinese dynasties that have existed throughout history.

I want to hear your definition of "beat down", beside the 20th Century and the Mongolians, China didn't get "beat down".

China has had an overall expension history. People generally dont realize two strength of China, 1: number of the population (literally, over coming a problem by keep throwing people at it) and 2: highly penetrative nature of the Confucism culture.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Today Hu said "China intends to develop a socialist democracy and build a socialist country under the rule of law"

So I've heard this from Chinese govt a few times before and I do not get it. Everything I hear about China is that it's a hyper capitalist autocracy, is this a fact that is embarassing to the Chinese government? Do they have a fondness for the past socialist policies? Do they have an inferiority complex when it comes to democracy? Do they really expect us to believe that they have a socialist democracy like France or someshit?

 

[SpectreFire]

I want to hear your definition of "beat down", beside the 20th Century and the Mongolians, China didn't get "beat down".

China has had an overall expension history. People generally dont realize two strength of China, 1: number of the population (literally, over coming a problem by keep throwing people at it) and 2: highly penetrative nature of the Confucism culture.

Ancient Chinese has always been a story of foreign powers coming in and ruling. The Jurchens, the Mongols, the Manchus, and later Europeans.

 

[Enosh]

I want to hear your definition of "beat down", beside the 20th Century and the Mongolians, China didn't get "beat down".

I think he was refering to the late 19th to early 20th century beat down

I like China, they are cool, I'd like to visit some day ^^

 

[numble]

Today Hu said "China intends to develop a socialist democracy and build a socialist country under the rule of law"

So I've heard this from Chinese govt a few times before and I do not get it. Everything I hear about China is that it's a hyper capitalist autocracy, is this a fact that is embarassing to the Chinese government? Do they have a fondness for the past socialist policies? Do they have an inferiority complex when it comes to democracy? Do they really expect us to believe that they have a socialist democracy like France or someshit?

The "rule of law" language is what they've been on about since the end of the Cultural Revolution. The opposite is the arbitrary "rule of man" that characterized the Mao era. It's resonance lies more to domestic Chinese audiences and maybe foreign businesses. Basically, before the Cultural Revolution, governance was pretty arbitrary--for instance, there wasn't a criminal law code until 1979--they went 30 years where people were criminally punished without concrete criminal law codes on the book. There weren't even Tort Laws until 6 months ago, and no Contract Law until the early 1980s. No comprehensive labor contract law until 2008, and there still is no administrative procedure law, among other things. They want to move to a regime where actions have to follow laws, and not the whim of the leaders (the fact that laws are enacted undemocratically are a different issue though). So that's what they mean about being under a rule of law. That reduces corruption and arbitrariness and makes people confident that they know what actions constitute a crime, or that they can sue for injuries, or that businesses know that their contracts will be enforced, instead of having to get a government official to help you out. There's been more progress on this front in the richer areas than the rural areas.

I don't see how him saying they "intend" to develop a socialist democracy means that he feels that they currently are a socialist democracy.

They are hyper-capitalist, but there are still some socialist aspects:
5% of all companies and 1/3 of all financial assets still exist in state-owned industries. The difference is that they try to run these industries these days in a capitalist mode--they can layoff employees instead of give guaranteed jobs, they can keep and invest their profits instead of giving it to the state at the end of each year, and they're often allowed to shutter if they don't break even. They run them with graduates from US business schools and they also have IPOs.
http://blogs.worldbank.org/eastasiapacific/state-owned-enterprises-in-china-how-profitable-are-they

Nearly all colleges and schools are government-run, they invest a ton of money in state infrastructure, and they do have a developing universal health care system (though not that strong).

 

[Deku]

... or what is America afraid of?





I don't understand this sudden fear of China. Especially among the right, who seem to feign fear in Obama "kowtowing" to their delegation currently in Washington. If anything, we should be relieved that there is another economic superpower that can help alleviate the stress of having to shoulder the many economic/social problems that seem to flare up every year.

l

The right is what it is.

The best way I've seen US-China relations put is the mythical nation of Chimerica.

Both countries, despite their differences, are literally that close economically.

China depends on US consumers, and the US depends on Chinese savers.