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[KSweeley]

Link: https://apnews.com/af41b699f67e43b3...Amtrak-to-discard-the-idea-of-shrinking-seats

July 16, 2017

U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer is asking Amtrak to discard the idea of creating new economy seating with reduced legroom aboard its trains.

Schumer says in a statement Sunday that Amtrak should find other ways to save money without burdening passengers.

Outgoing Amtrak co-chief executive Wick Moorman said last week that the company was looking at creating the “economy” seating that would add more rows of seats in an effort to make more money.

Schumer is calling the idea “right out of the airline’s playbook.” The senator from New York is urging Amtrak to “scrap the shrinking seats idea” and look at other ways of making money.

He said the government should invest in Amtrak every year so the company doesn’t have to consider proposals that hurt the consumer.

 

[Gallbaro]

Lol, the new CEO is from the Airline Industry.

Also, why not?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I'm 6'2. Fuck everything about this idea. How about Amtrak fix their shitty tracks instead. Legroom ain't got shit to do with that.

They might as well say "We can't figure out how to make money so let's fuck passengers over more!"

 

[shira]

soon

 

[Gallbaro]

I'm 6'2. Fuck everything about this idea. How about Amtrak fix their shitty tracks instead. Legroom ain't got shit to do with that.

They might as well say "We can't figure out how to make money so let's fuck passengers over more!"

They actually make a profit on the North East Corridor. That profit actually goes subsidize long distant trains and regional trains that operate in just over half of the nations congressional districts.

 

[CHC]

Ok Amtrak go ahead. I'll just take the BoltBus for 20 bucks you can fuck off and go out of business.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

soon

Not sure how the window seat person would get out, but pretty cool idea.

 

[UberTag]

I don't see why they don't allow people to sell their lap space to another passenger to get a slight rebate on their ticket purchase price.

It'll be like Uber... except in this case, you are your own car.

 

[Steejee]

I'm 6'2. Fuck everything about this idea. How about Amtrak fix their shitty tracks instead. Legroom ain't got shit to do with that.

They might as well say "We can't figure out how to make money so let's fuck passengers over more!"

As noted, on the NE Corridor they make money, but Congress controls their pursestrings and they can't end a lot of money-losing rural lines as a result. Doesn't help when assholes like Christie hobble them as well by blocking critical infrastructure upgrades.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Not sure how the window seat person would get out, but pretty cool idea.

Looks like the seats fold up

 

[Gallbaro]

As noted, on the NE Corridor they make money, but Congress controls their pursestrings and they can't end a lot of money-losing rural lines as a result. Doesn't help when assholes like Christie hobble them as well by blocking critical infrastructure upgrades.

What Christie blocked would have had zero benefit to Amtrak operations.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Why not just put seats on the roof?

 

[theWB27]

soon

I don't ride the train, but that looks boycott worthy.

 

[Nipo]

soon

wouldn't meet emergency evacuation requirements unless there is something we're not seeing.

 

[Ogodei]

Because riding the train is already so convenient unless you live somewhere between DC and Boston, let's take away one of it's few selling points.

 

[Mii]

Amtrak should be able to make this change - its terrible that Amtrak is stuck with this sort of government intrusion.

Amtrak needs to be released from the shackles of the government and be broken up for regional private players to decide how to best invest regional profits. We would have had a bullet train in the northeast corridor decades ago if it weren't for shit like this.

 

[Not]

Noooooo, fuck off, trains used to be the best way to travel for this reason alone

Amtrak should be able to make this change - its terrible that Amtrak is stuck with this sort of government intrusion.

Amtrak needs to be released from the shackles of the government and be broken up for regional private players to decide how to best invest regional profits. We would have had a bullet train in the northeast corridor decades ago if it weren't for shit like this.

Leg room or bullet train?

This isn't a decision man should be forced to make

 

[Septimus Prime]

Not sure how the window seat person would get out, but pretty cool idea.

By paying for Business Class.

 

[ahoyhoy]

No one wants to ride trains because they're slow, unreliable, and cost the same or sometimes more than flying.

I know, let's make them as uncomfortable as airplanes too!

 

[KSweeley]

Amtrak should be able to make this change - its terrible that Amtrak is stuck with this sort of government intrusion.

Amtrak needs to be released from the shackles of the government and be broken up for regional private players to decide how to best invest regional profits. We would have had a bullet train in the northeast corridor decades ago if it weren't for shit like this.

There's a bullet train proposal for the Northeast Corridor, the first leg is being studied right now: http://baltimorewashingtonscmaglevproject.com/index.php

Here's the website for the entire proposal: http://northeastmaglev.com/

It'll use Japanese high-speed train technology: http://northeastmaglev.com/the-train

We have a unique opportunity to benefit from the decades of maglev development in Japan, and bring unprecedented speed and safety to the busiest corridor in the U.S.

The SCMAGLEV has been in development in Japan since the 1960s, and has carried passengers over a cumulative distance of more than 545,000 miles – enough to circle the globe more than 21 times or travel to the moon and back. The first commercial line using this technology will connect Tokyo, Nagoya and Osaka.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

soon

i fail to see how this creates more seats as opposed to all seats facing the same way

 

[Gallbaro]

Because riding the train is already so convenient unless you live somewhere between DC and Boston, let's take away one of it's few selling points.

First of all the NY -> Boston portion sucks. Only good segment in the entire country is NY to Washington (and even that is literally falling apart at the moment).

Second of all our cities are not made for intercity rail travel and for the vast majority of the population the local airport is a more convenient location for the "last mile" travel in a automobile.

 

[Gallbaro]

There's a bullet train proposal for the Northeast Corridor, the first leg is being studied right now: http://baltimorewashingtonscmaglevproject.com/index.php



Here's the website for the entire proposal: http://northeastmaglev.com/

It'll use Japanese high-speed train technology: http://northeastmaglev.com/the-train

If you dig into the plan one of the key points of making it viable is non-union labor. High productivity labor is one of the main reasons JR is able to run such good service.

A.K.A not going to happen.

 

[KSweeley]

If you dig into the plan one of the key points of making it viable is non-union labor. High productivity labor is one of the main reasons JR is able to run such good service.

A.K.A not going to happen.

JR Central wants SCMAGLEV to be exported to the U.S.: http://www.japan.go.jp/tomodachi/2017/spring2017/the_japanese_technology.html

SCMAGLEV is a unique transportation technology developed in Japan. When materials are cooled to temperatures below a certain level, their electrical resistance approaches zero; this is the phenomenon of superconductivity. Small but powerful superconducting magnets allow trains to levitate 10 cm (4 inches) above the tracks and reach top speeds of 500 km/h (310 mph). ”The maglev technology developed outside Japan uses larger, non-superconducting coils, so it can only levitate the train 1 cm [0.4 inch] and reach speeds of 430 km/h [267 mph]. Japan's technology is fundamentally different." explains Noriyuki Shirakuni, a senior corporate executive officer at Central Japan Railway Company (JR Central), the developer of SCMAGLEV. An SCMAGLEV train can travel at super-high speeds, and because it uses only half the energy that air travel requires and emits just a third of the CO2 per passenger seat, this form of transport is also superior from an environmental perspective.

JR Central is also working closely with The Northeast Maglev (TNEM), a U.S. marketing firm, to promote the adoption of an SCMAGLEV system for a line from Washington DC to Baltimore to be built as a joint project of the Japanese and U.S. governments. This is part of a larger plan for the construction of an SCMAGLEV passenger line in the section of the Northeast Corridor from Washington DC to New York. The first steps toward implementation of the project have already been taken, with the U.S. government agreeing to grant the state of Maryland USD 27.8 million to fund its research on the proposed Washington-Baltimore link. Shirakuni's outlook on the project is hopeful. ”As we can see from the U.S. government's decision to provide a grant, understanding of SCMAGLEV is progressing within the United States, and momentum towards implementation of the project appears to be building," he says. ”We look forward to contributing our technology to America as a symbol of U.S.-Japan friendship. I have high hopes that both the U.S. and Japanese governments will continue exploring ways to bring this plan to fruition."

Also, the government of Japan has committed funding towards bringing SCMAGLEV between D.C. and Baltimore: http://www.raillynews.com/2016/japan-commits-fund-baltimore-washington-scmaglev-project/

Progress on the Baltimore – Washington Superconducting Magnetic Levitation (SCMaglev) Transportation Project was highlighted, with Japan committing US$2 million in support of feasibility studies for the project. This sum complements the nearly $28 million in U.S. federal grants secured to complete the necessary environmental and engineering studies.

With possibly even more Japanese money on the way: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-md-maglev-reception-20150921-story.html

Northeast Maglev hopes to build a magnetic levitation line that would shorten the trip between Baltimore and Washington to 15 minutes and eventually extend all the way to New York.

The first leg is estimated to cost $12 billion, but could be offset by the Japanese government and Central Japan Railway subsidizing about half the construction cost.

 

[massoluk]

Lol, leg room and the stations being in the middle of the cities were the two only reason I use Amtrak.

Don't be an idiot, Amtrak. Just modernize your train would go a long way. Your snack car is stuck in the 60s

 

[Gallbaro]

JR Central wants SCMAGLEV to be exported to the U.S.: http://www.japan.go.jp/tomodachi/2017/spring2017/the_japanese_technology.html



Also, the government of Japan has committed funding towards bringing SCMAGLEV between D.C. and Baltimore: http://www.raillynews.com/2016/japan-commits-fund-baltimore-washington-scmaglev-project/



With possibly even more Japanese money on the way: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-md-maglev-reception-20150921-story.html

$300 million a mile (this is inline with the Japanese Budget)? Hah, way too little for our pathetic construction methods and labor. $1 billion per mile is much more likely with USA/Japan multipliers.

 

[sarcastor]

There's a bullet train proposal for the Northeast Corridor, the first leg is being studied right now:

They're building a high speed rail in California from San Francisco to Los Angeles. It was approved in 2008 and so far its a boondoggle.

• When voters approved the measure, the estimated cost of the project was $40 billion. The 2016 business plan reviewed by the Legislative Analysts Office estimated a cost of $64 billion.
• The first 29 miles of the Central Valley section was originally expected to be finished this year. The latest estimates from the rail authority are for August 2019.
• it would take 203.8 years of passengers paying $86 for a ticket to break even with the current $64 billion cost estimate. Of course the total budget will be way more, and this will not even factor in maintenance.

 

[Steejee]

What Christie blocked would have had zero benefit to Amtrak operations.

Sorry, mixed up the tunnels in this case, just thinking about that man makes me angry...

That being said, the ARC money should have gone to Gateway, and not to the general transit fund. At least then he could have made a better case that he was simply supporting a better option.

 

[RevoDS]

i fail to see how this creates more seats as opposed to all seats facing the same way

The widest part of the human body is the shoulders. With this, the seats can be tigher together because legs don't take as much width.

This is probably more comfortable than regular seats facing the same way. You get a little bit of space between the two people sitting next to each other which you wouldn't get with normal seats.

It's a clever idea, but it has to be awkward sometimes...

 

[Regiruler]

i fail to see how this creates more seats as opposed to all seats facing the same way

It basically lets you use the seats to your side as legroom.

It's hard to explain, but looking at that diagram it does look better in terms of comfort, IMO.

 

[sturgboski]

Oh sure, after affecting the services of the LIRR and NJT by basically shirking responsibility to upkeep tracks leading to what is deemed the summer of hell while you do some track work, causing shit service for the metro area with derailment after derailment, power outage after power outage, signal failure after signal failure, all while raising ticket prices, yet lets make the commute even worse by fucking over folks with leg room/economy seating. I hope the CEO and the executive group fornicate themselves with one of the nice rusted railway spikes.

 

[Gallbaro]

Sorry, mixed up the tunnels in this case, just thinking about that man makes me angry...

That being said, the ARC money should have gone to Gateway, and not to the general transit fund. At least then he could have made a better case that he was simply supporting a better option.

Realistically the agencies should not be Balkanized. The reason NJ Transit and Corzine chose the ARCS implementation was because it created a (useless) station and infrastructure entirely under their control. MTA did this amoungst itself with the ridiculously useless new terminal under Grand Central Terminal because they could not get LIRR and MN to agree to share the amazingly large capacity of that terminal.

If New Jersey Transit was thinking regionally, they would have proceeded with ALT-G a new tunnel under the Hudson River and new continuing Tracks to continue to GCT.

They're building a high speed rail in California from San Francisco to Los Angeles. It was approved in 2008 and so far its a boondoggle.

• When voters approved the measure, the estimated cost of the project was $40 billion. The 2016 business plan reviewed by the Legislative Analysts Office estimated a cost of $64 billion.
• The first 29 miles of the Central Valley section was originally expected to be finished this year. The latest estimates from the rail authority are for August 2019.
• it would take 203.8 years of passengers paying $86 for a ticket to break even with the current $64 billion cost estimate. Of course the total budget will be way more, and this will not even factor in maintenance.

It is a particularly pathetic project.

 

[Daedardus]

There's a bullet train proposal for the Northeast Corridor, the first leg is being studied right now: http://baltimorewashingtonscmaglevproject.com/index.php



Here's the website for the entire proposal: http://northeastmaglev.com/

It'll use Japanese high-speed train technology: http://northeastmaglev.com/the-train

Maglev is a (kind of) dead technology though. Too expensive, especially the track cost per mile is very high and many deployments suffered from a quite a few delays. It would be better to invest those very high speed trains that use regular tracks with a special concrete bedding. China has many of them in use and they easily reach 400 kph ( 250mph). Yes, Maglev is rather cool technology and that's why it has this wow factor, but technically it's not really the best suited for many railways.

 

[chugen]

maybe we could seat like that, lots of legroom and more space for seats

 

[elostyle]

I am not an expert but I'd wager the cost impact of extra legroom in a train is the fraction of what it is for airplanes, making this a rather dumb idea.

 

[SenorArdilla]

soon

How will you get out to pee though?

 

[rackham]

If Amtrak wasn't so expensive I'd use them more. If they offered some kind of reasonable subscription service I'd definitely use it. As it is, it's so expensive without discounts and booking 3+ days in advance.

Add to the fact that every time I ride there is always room. There was only ever one time it was full up and it was only for a partial portion of my trip


They're kind of garbage right now. Fuck em.

 

[TarNaru33]

maybe we could seat like that, lots of legroom and more space for seats

Why is the guy on his stomach rather than on his back with his legs up?

From Danville, VA to Northern, VA or to NY is more than $100 one way. I can go both ways in my car for less than that. The pricing really is too high, if it wasn't that expensive, I would easily choose a train since I hate driving.

 

[Tall4Life]

Why must us tall people suffer.

 

[ibyea]

I loved taking the train to DC thanks to the leg room.

 

[Gallbaro]

Why must us tall people suffer.

As someone who is 6'8" if you are on Amtrak you are suffering.

 

[Frozenprince]

Maybe you could start by actually making train travel somewhat affordable without killing the customer.

Just a thought.

 

[everyday math]

Why is the guy on his stomach rather than on his back with his legs up?

From Danville, VA to Northern, VA or to NY is more than $100 one way. I can go both ways in my car for less than that. The pricing really is too high, if it wasn't that expensive, I would easily choose a train since I hate driving.

Real questions are why is his smile so deformed and are those arms or wings?

 

[red731]

soon

 

[nhlducks35]

They're building a high speed rail in California from San Francisco to Los Angeles. It was approved in 2008 and so far its a boondoggle.

• When voters approved the measure, the estimated cost of the project was $40 billion. The 2016 business plan reviewed by the Legislative Analysts Office estimated a cost of $64 billion.
• The first 29 miles of the Central Valley section was originally expected to be finished this year. The latest estimates from the rail authority are for August 2019.
• it would take 203.8 years of passengers paying $86 for a ticket to break even with the current $64 billion cost estimate. Of course the total budget will be way more, and this will not even factor in maintenance.

Is it really that cheap for a ticket? $86?

 

[nelchaar]

Isn't the whole point of taking the train the comfort aspect of it?

 

[TarNaru33]

Real questions are why is his smile so deformed and are those arms or wings?

In fact, why is he even smiling at all? That is a very painful position to be in for a long duration, he should be crying.

EDIT: Is it cheaper to take trains than drive in other countries with a better transportation system like Japan? Just wondering if I should ever expect it to be cheaper to take public transport long distances over driving. As stated earlier, taking a train to NY from where I am is more expensive than making a complete drive to and back.

Not including the maintenance or cost to own the car, just the commute.

 

[sangreal]

the amtrak acela is comfortable as hell, this would be a shame

why can't they just sell their existing seats cheaper? it's not like they're sold out. Use some sliding pricing scale based on demand

 

[Gallbaro]

the amtrak acela is comfortable as hell, this would be a shame

why can't they just sell their existing seats cheaper? it's not like they're sold out. Use some sliding pricing scale based on demand

I think the Yankess have the same problem...

 

[NESpowerhouse]

Fuck you Amtrak. Where am I gonna put my 2 carry-ons now? (I usually put a full-sized suitcase and a large duffle bag up top, so there's no more room.