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[Mibu no ookami]

It seems to me like people in the gaming community love to make hay over the most random of things, but before I call this random, I really want to better understand it.

My consoles are connected to via ethernet cables... they're always online. This is absolutely not a big deal to me. My PC is similarly always online (ethernet). My Macbook is always online (ethernet/wifi). There is nothing internet connected in my house that isn't always connected.

Which makes me wonder, what is with the vitriol towards things requiring an internet connection? Is there a legitimate concern here or is this just one more thing to get angry over?

*antagonism

 

[Spaceman292]

Did you play Outriders on release? No, because no one did, because the servers were fucked. I'd like to play Anthem again for a little bit because the gameplay was kinda fun, but microsoft has locked my account and my game is now worthless.

I don't like being beaten over the head with mtx ads on the start screen. I don't like the start up taking longer because the game has to log me in every time I start it up. I don't like the fact that the game will become literally unplayable in a few years when the servers shut down.

Also they're harvesting all your data and stuff. And if your house has spotty wifi you're fucked. Also you're forced to download every update even if sometimes they break the game.

A load of people who played FO76 on release had their personal details leaked.

There's tonnes of other reasons it's shit but I can't be bothered to type them out.

 

[64bitmodels]

Not everyone lives in a place where there's good internet

 

[TintoConCasera]

"It's not a problem for me, so who cares?"

Nice one OP.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

"It's not a problem for me, so who cares?"

Nice one OP.

Is that what I said, or have I explicitly said, I care, I want to know more.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Is that what I said, or have I explicitly said, I care, I want to know more.

Haha okay. In some cases it's shit because some countries have rural areas with low internet speed or connectivity issues. Imagine being thrown out of your single player session because your internet goes away.

For me, it's more about not conceding.

 

[rofif]

I pay for the thing. I dont want to rely on servers that I don’t have control over.
If someone is willing to pay 60-70 into thin air and give up all their consumer rights. That’s very strange.
Own nothing and be happy is strong

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Is that what I said, or have I explicitly said, I care, I want to know more.

You are either ignorant or a young kid. Because anyone old enough to be an adult would remember losing access to one game or another when the server shuts down. You don't know that because you are too young to have games you don't treat as disposable.

And if you are not a young kid... when did you start gaming?

 

[Robb]

It’s nothing but a downgrade. Why anyone would be content with it makes no sense to me.

If there’s a power outage I’d like to still be able to play my games.

If there’s an internet outage I’d like to still be able to play my games.

If the servers get shut down I’d like to still be able to play my games.

If I bring my console with me somewhere where I have no connection I’d like to still be able to play my games.

Etc. etc.

 

[Spaceman292]

Is that what I said, or have I explicitly said, I care, I want to know more.

This is absolutely not a big deal to me.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It’s nothing but a downgrade. Why anyone would be content with it makes no sense to me.

If there’s a power outage I’d like to still be able to play my games.

If there’s an internet outage I’d like to still be able to play my games.

If the servers get shut down I’d like to still be able to play my games.

If I bring my console with me somewhere where I have no connection I’d like to still be able to play my games.

Etc. etc.

What console are you playing through a power outage?

Where do you take your console to? How often does that happen?

 

[winjer]

And then the company decides it no longer wants to pay to keep the servers running, and you can't even play the single player portion of the game that you paid for.

 

[T4keD0wN]

I live in the poor part of Europe, my internet is not fully stable all the time and randomly goes out for a few seconds, although its rare. The internet is not as good in small cities as it is in the big ones.
I remember attempting to play AC vallhala recently and getting crashes if my internet went out for more than 5 seconds.
Some single player games not letting me play them without internet like Red dead redemption 2 which wouldnt let me play the campaign because they had a 3 day server maintenance.
If ISP has some issues, you cant play. If there is power outtage causing you to not be able to connect to the internet, you cant play. You can lose progress because of stuff like this.
Theres multiple issues.

 

[01011001]

It seems to me like people in the gaming community love to make hay over the most random of things, but before I call this random, I really want to better understand it.

My consoles are connected to via ethernet cables... they're always online. This is absolutely not a big deal to me. My PC is similarly always online (ethernet). My Macbook is always online (ethernet/wifi). There is nothing internet connected in my house that isn't always connected.

Which makes me wonder, what is with the vitriol towards things requiring an internet connection? Is there a legitimate concern here or is this just one more thing to get angry over?

*antagonism

is there a legitimate reason to have an online only game that is playable in singleplayer?

if the answer is no, stop even trying to defend this shit.


there are a plethora of reasons why this is pure bullshit.

1: server issues making the game unplayable
2: rural areas with spotty internet making the game unplayable at times
3: the game flops and becomes unplayable as the servers shut down
4: Steam Deck users are fucked if they ever want to use their Deck as its meant to be used
5: ISPs often have issues related to faulty DNS servers, laying new cables or randomly outages related to random reasons
6: you're moving or switching ISP which means it's possible for you to be cut of from a stable home connection for sometimes days

why would it be ok for a SINGLE PLAYER GAME to become unusable if any of this happens?
it's not ok for that to happen IN A SINGLE PLAYER GAME.

so fuck online only games like these.

 

[Warnen]

I’m in the don’t bother me don’t care camp but extend down times, metered internet connection, archiving issues…

But I’m all digital these days, save a few Blu-ray’s for kids when internet is out. Been using them more then I thought this and last year.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You are either ignorant or a young kid. Because anyone old enough to be an adult would remember losing access to one game or another when the server shuts down. You don't know that because you are too young to have games you don't treat as disposable.

And if you are not a young kid... when did you start gaming?

I started gaming in the 80s, but appreciate your deductive skills here.

Haha okay. In some cases it's shit because some countries have rural areas with low internet speed or connectivity issues. Imagine being thrown out of your single player session because your internet goes away.

For me, it's more about not conceding.

So are you in one of those areas or are you protesting on behalf of the people who do? It sounds like maybe it doesn't impact you much (if at all) but you don't like the idea of it...?

Coming from someone who loves retro games, I've never really experienced not being able to play anything because the servers were shut down.

 

[Guilty_AI]

*flashbacks of playing The Crew and getting thrown to the start screen in the middle of a race due to random connection instabilities*

"Hey, this game called Nosgoth looks cool, maybe i could- oh you can't play it anymore"
"Oh well, maybe i'll try Ghost in the Shell: SAC - First Assault, i'm a big fan of the series so- oh its shut down too"

 

[Robb]

What console are you playing through a power outage?

Where do you take your console to? How often does that happen?

Switch, which thankfully has very few singleplayer games that requires internet from my experience.

Happens from time to time, maybe 2-3 times a year at most - usually to our summer vacation house. I don’t think the amount matters at all though, the option gets taken away which is always bad no matter if you use it or not.

 

[MALpractice311]

I don't appreciate my ownership and enjoyment of a product that I paid for being reliant upon servers that can go out randomly and can be shut down permanently. Simple as that.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

is there a legitimate reason to have an online only game that is playable in singleplayer?

if the answer is no, stop even trying to defend this shit.


there are a plethora of reasons why this is pure bullshit.

1: server issues making the game unplayable
2: rural areas with spotty internet making the game unplayable at times
3: the game flops and becomes unplayable as the servers shut down
4: Steam Deck users are fucked if they ever want to use their Deck as its meant to be used
5: ISPs often have issues related to faulty DNS servers, laying new cables or randomly outages related to random reasons
6: you're moving or switching ISP which means it's possible for you to be cut of from a stable home connection for sometimes days

why would it be ok for a SINGLE PLAYER GAME to become unusable if any of this happens?
it's not ok for that to happen IN A SINGLE PLAYER GAME.

so fuck online only games like these.

Legitimate reason? I mean I think the big reason for the publishers is to reduce piracy. Whether you think that is legitimate is up to you.

 

[gaming_again]

Is that what I said, or have I explicitly said, I care, I want to know more.

Practical reasons:

• Some countries and areas don't have good internet. The assumption that this is otherwise is infuriating.
• You don't own the software in an assumed state because it can be changed/switched off at any time.
• Playing the game is reliant on your internet connection working, which isn't guaranteed.
• Consoles aren't advertised as requiring an internet connection.

Other reasons:

• It's accepting of bad consumer practice in yet another industry
• On a deep and fundamental level I know it is wrong and I trust my instinct over any rational pros and cons list.

I'm reminded of an interview I heard with some tech guy who everyone says is a genius visionary. He said something like 'Now we Uber to our office, work on the cloud, order lunch from doordash, set our AC/heating on the way home from work from our phones, and check our emails while we eat dinner.'

And it's like... no, you do. And maybe 4% of the rest of the planet. Lots of people don't live that way because they can't, and lots of people don't want to live that way. Being forced to go online to enjoy my games when I don't have to feels like giving up another piece of individual freedom just because some extremely insulated, yet powerful people, believe their lifestyle is the moral and proper way to do things.

I play games to unhook from the world. The Xbox dashboard with its saccharine and cliched attempts at brainwashing is bad enough.

 

[skit_data]

It’s mostly because it inevitably means the game will be completely unplayable at some point, essentially become a useless piece of data. It’s especially strange to make games with single player components always online.

I have pretty much constant access to internet, but when GT7 was down for a couple of days it (crazy, I know) happened to coincide with my internet going down (was changing ISP and some idiot had forgotten to actually plug in the cable connecting my apartment to the switch). Although I could consider myself lucky that these two events coincided it made me reflect on how frustrated I’d have been if my internet wasn’t down at the time.

Edit: I was of course still pretty frustrated but it was aimed at my ISP, and more about not being able to access my literature for studies than worrying about GT7.

 

[TintoConCasera]

So are you in one of those areas or are you protesting on behalf of the people who do? It sounds like maybe it doesn't impact you much (if at all) but you don't like the idea of it...?

It doesn't really impact me since I'm not even interested in the games that require it. It's just that I don't like the practice, since it hurts other people.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Legitimate reason? I mean I think the big reason for the publishers is to reduce piracy enforce microtransactions more easily and stop mods that adds extra better content to the game for free. Whether you think that is legitimate is up to you.

fixed

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Practical reasons:

• Some countries and areas don't have good internet. The assumption that this is otherwise is infuriating.
• You don't own the software in an assumed state because it can be changed/switched off at any time.
• Playing the game is reliant on your internet connection working, which isn't guaranteed.
• Consoles aren't advertised as requiring an internet connection.

Other reasons:

• It's accepting of bad consumer practice in yet another industry
• On a deep and fundamental level I know it is wrong and I trust my instinct over any rational pros and cons list.

I'm reminded of an interview I heard with some tech guy who everyone says is a genius visionary. He said something like 'Now we Uber to our office, work on the cloud, order lunch from doordash, set our AC/heating on the way home from work from our phones, and check our emails while we eat dinner.'

And it's like... no, you do. And maybe 4% of the rest of the planet. Lots of people don't live that way because they can't, and lots of people don't want to live that way. Being forced to go online to enjoy my games when I don't have to feels like giving up another piece of individual freedom just because some extremely insulated, yet powerful people, believe their lifestyle is the moral and proper way to do things.

I play games to unhook from the world. The Xbox dashboard with its saccharine and cliched attempts at brainwashing is bad enough.

Some countries (again it seems as though much of the outrage is on behalf of others). There are way too many people complaining about this for this to all be people living in countries with poor internet.

Any major games that you've lost access to?

I haven't had an internet outage in over a year and if I did, I'm sure I could find a game to play that wasn't requiring internet.

But you aren't buying the console, you're buying the game. I think maybe I'd see your point if a game didn't advertise needing online always, and you bought it and you didn't have stable internet, but most of the time the publishers are pretty transparent about it...

Is it a bad consumer practice? Or is it the companies trying to protect themselves against piracy, which loses them money, which causes them to have to get their margins elsewhere? I'd much rather have a game require internet than be taxed to death on DLC and MTX.

But appreciate how passionate you are about this.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

fixed

mods on console?

 

[01011001]

Legitimate reason? I mean I think the big reason for the publishers is to reduce piracy. Whether you think that is legitimate is up to you.

piracy on an Xbox which is not jailbroken and can't even be pirated? same on PS5...

no, the REAL reason games like Suicide Squad and GranTurismo 7 have an always online lock is so that people can't circumvent their microtransactions.

THAT is the real reason. and the only reason.
how much do you wanna bet that, just like GT7, Suicide Squad will have a way to speed up progression with real money?
well... if you could play offline you could skip patches that might fix a trick or two that lets you farm XP/Money extremely quickly, which would make their microtransactions that are meant to monetize fast progression cheats completely worthless.

and GT7 has shown us that they absolutely adjust in-game pricing and patch out tricks that let you progress faster, while also selling you faster progression.

THAT is the only reason these games are always online. there is NO other legitimate reason for this.

if they were concerned about piracy just stick in Denuvo on PC and be done with it. as we know Denuvo takes ages to be cracked these days.

 

[just_jr]

Additionally to moments where you need to travel to a place with no good internet connection or no internet at all, after some time the servers will close and you won't be able to play this old game anymore

 

[Puscifer]

I pay for the thing. I dont want to rely on servers that I don’t have control over.
If someone is willing to pay 60-70 into thin air and give up all their consumer rights. That’s very strange.
Own nothing and be happy is strong

These people let companies think and make decisions for them, it's ridiculous

 

[Guilty_AI]

mods on console?

Another perfectly possible thing stopped by console manufacturers in fact

 

[GametimeUK]

The always online thing isn't inherently bad as an option. Like yeah if you keep your console online you have remote access to your console, or having your console online allows you to party chat etc

However, always online becomes an issue when it's a mandatory requirement with no real reason. So an MMO requiring online has a good reason. A game you can play single player doesn't really justify mandatory online connections. Single player games can justify an OPTIONAL online connection to enhance the experience to compare leaderboards with friends etc.

So it's not as simple as "always online = bad", but when it's always online for no real reason it becomes a problem.

Just the fact I can be online at all times is irrelevant. If the game doesn't need the connectivity then why make it a requirement that can introduce unnecessary complications? Its dumb as fuck. You have to think about how the end user benefits from it. Sometimes they do from always online, but sometimes they don't.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Which makes me wonder, what is with the vitriol towards things requiring an internet connection? Is there a legitimate concern here or is this just one more thing to get angry over?

People pay money to own a product and being always online or a Game as a Service basically means you don't actually own it. You just play off a server that in the future will some day disappear.

The other issue is that when making a game there should be an option for the game to function offline if they are giving the option for their playerbase to play their game solo.

If it is marketed as a MMO or strictly a multiplayer game then it is more permissible.

There are a plethora of games that can be online experiences but also offer offline functionality so you have the choice.

The always online mantra means there is no choice. And people hate that.

 

[01011001]

Another perfectly possible thing stopped by console manufacturers in fact

not really. Microsoft allows mods on their console without much restrictions.
but developers don't implement support for them.

Bethesda's games support all kinds of mods. even to a limited degree on PlayStation (very limited tho on there)

 

[TheUsual]

I'm all ears if a publisher can say in a single sentence why a game must be always online is beneficial to me as a player.

But they can't.

It's about control, harvesting data, and pushing shitty MTX.

 

[brian0057]

I like owning what I buy.
An always-online requirement means that devs or publishers can choose at any time to either change or remove the software that I paid for without my consent and there's nothing I can do about it. Miss me with that Sword of Damocles shit.

The quality of the internet service, the features provided by online connectivity, or the ease of acquiring said service are immaterial.
This is about property rights for me. And if your game requires an internet connection to function, even if it's single player, I'm not buying it.

 

[remember_spinal]

I got a wake up call when i got my VR a couple days ago and couldn’t play anything in GT7 because for some reason my internet started to act up. Then i couldn’t download COTM either, so i was stuck without a way to play it for hours.

Always online is stupid if games have robust single player components, we dont need that shit in gaming right now

 

[ManaByte]

If there’s a power outage I’d like to still be able to play my games.

 

[ReBurn]

Exactly what I was thinking

 

[CGNoire]

Is that what I said, or have I explicitly said, I care, I want to know more.

In fairness you did post an "old man shakes hand at cloud".gif
What did you exspect?

 

[Robb]

Exactly what I was thinking

I mean.. Switch, SteamDeck, 3DS, portable computers, or literally any system not tethered to the wall.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Offline games are forever.

Online only has an expiration date.

That’s a BIG problem when it’s tacked onto a single player campaign where there’s no reason for it to be there.

 

[brian0057]

Exactly what I was thinking

You can tell they're from a first world nation by the fact that not having an internet connection during a blackout is a foreign concept for them.

 

[ReBurn]

You can tell they're from a first world nation by the fact that not having an internet connection during a blackout is a foreign concept for them.

The weird thing to me is expecting your console and router to work during a blackout.

 

[Guilty_AI]

not really. Microsoft allows mods on their console without much restrictions.
but developers don't implement support for them.

Bethesda's games support all kinds of mods. even to a limited degree on PlayStation (very limited tho on there)

Yeah i was mainly refering to ps/nintendo. Not much familiar with MS policies on this. Either way, the source of the problem steems from how console manufacturers don't let you access the games files normally.

 

[brian0057]

The weird thing to me is expecting your console and router to work during a blackout.

I think the point he's trying to make is that, with a charged laptop/Switch/Deck, he can still play games as long as they don't require an internet connection to work.

 

[kyussman]

Not being able to play single player in a game that allows it because my internet is down is fucking bullshit.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I also never really understood it OP, yes it's a problem if you have dogshit internet, buy I doubt the members of gaf, an enthusiast gaming forum, fall majorly in that category.

Also I still have all of my old systems except the dreamcast, og xbox is even still hooked up, but do I actually use them? Not really, the fear of one day, someday not having access to a game seems hyperbolic and overblown to me, there's tons of games you haven't touched in decades or completely forgot about even "owning".

 

[CGNoire]

Im sorry OP but the very many legitimate reasons for oposition towards always online SP has been so well documented bye now threads like this comes off as just Trolling.

 

[killatopak]

First tell me, what are my benefits?

Does it only benefit the producer of the product? Fuck off then.

 

[Nemesisuuu]

Well, I had situation in the last 2 weeks - there are street works going on and as they were digging they cut the internet cable so I was few days without the internet. When they fixed the cable, then they managed to cut it again just further down the street - so another few days without internet.

Ofc that was just in time for the latest GT7 update and there is one example what is wrong with always online. It is rare case, but when it happens, it happens in the wrong time - I didn't even fire up GT for few months and I wanted it to play exactly the day when they cut the wire lol.

Yes, I could've hotspot but I didn't bother due to limited bandwidth, yes I got wireless temporary solution from my provider - but that is not something great since the speed varies greatly.

It is just an annoyance.