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[Synbios459]

I've been replaying the Sonic games, and I have to say IMO Sonic 3 is the worst. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just seems as if the others were more "finished" so to speak. Anywhoo, this is how good I think the Sonic games are:

Sonic 2>Sonic 1>Sonic CD>Sonic and Knuckles>Sonic 3.

 

[Pachinko]

I"m in the sonic 2 camp myself, where it did everything perfect. Sonic 3 made the levels just about 2 large and especially in carnival night zone a bit confusing, I recall a part in act 2 of that zone where you have to bounce up and down on a pedastal for far to long to advance the stage.

Even sonic 3 though had better designed levels then the pathetic dash festivals known as the sonic advance series....

 

[Semjaza Azazel]

3 is my least favorite out of the Genesis titles. I absolutely cannot stand that Carnival world (I think it's the 3rd one).

 

[callous]

Even sonic 3 though had better designed levels then the pathetic dash festivals known as the sonic advance series....

God, don't remind me, you'll make me cry.

 

[LuckyBrand]

Sonic 2 and Sonic Pocket Adventure are the best ever..

But Sonic 1, Sonic 3/Knuckles, Sonic CD all had their own pros cons and own things going for them..

i really did enjoy sonic 3 and sonic & knuckles however, and many consider Sonic 3 & Knuckles (locked on) to be the best sonic game ever.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Level design: Sonic 1>Sonic 2>Sonic CD>S&K>Sonic 3

 

[SolidSnakex]

Sonic 2 takes the level design crown just for Casino Zone alone. I'd say Sonic and Sonic 3 would be about the same, neither were horrible or great.

 

[Neutron Night]

Sonic 3 was the best of Genesis games. By far. Not that I was a huge Sonic fan. Sonic Adventure 2 is the best Sonic game overall. It was light-years beyond SA1. People are always getting the Sonic games backwards. I don't get it.

 

[AlphaSnake]

SA2 sucked. And it sucked a lot.

Sonic 3 was awesome. Sonic 2 was the best. The Advance games are ass. Sonic 1 is nearly unplayable today for some reason.

 

[AniHawk]

I always thought the Sonic & Shadow levels of SA2 rocked hard. Didn't like the other crap though. Yuji Naka can't seem to get it right by giving us a game with just classic Sonic levels in 3D without any extra crap to slow it down. When I play Sonic, I want a fast paced game. Not any of this exploring and shooting bullshit.

 

[Optimistic]

Sonic 1 is still as playable as it ever was (which is very fucking playable) IMO. Sonic 1 > S&K > Sonic 2 > Sonic 3

Mind you, they were still all fantastic games. Easily the best 2d platformers ever. Mario fans just pretend I didn't say that.

 

[LuckyBrand]

My order:

Sonic 2
Sonic 3
Sonic Knuckles
Sonic CD
Sonic
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Pocket Adventure
Sonic R
Knuckles Chaotix
Sonic Advance Series
Sonic Game Gear games

I find the Sonic Advance games "okay", the game gear games were mostly unplayable, but Knuckles Chaotix on up, I loved them all...

Sonic R i really loved actually, I played that game so much...


Sonic Adventure 2 was exciting, I was so pumped for it, and I got one of those sonic 10th anniversary things, i nearly exploded when I picked it up at lunch break during the workday... i ended up getting like 3-4 more of them at random places.

anyone have that 10th anniversary pack too? i listened to that CD alot actually..

 

[Neutron Night]

SA2 sucked. And it sucked a lot.

I have yet to see a good explanation for this. Even the non-hedgehog levels at least had the awesome 60fps graphics. Blew my mind back in 2001.

 

[kiryogi]

Probably gameplay wise. Knuckles/Rouge levels were just plain evil. Only thing SA2 had going for it were the Sonic/Shadow levels. Oh and chaos if you're into that sorta thing.

 

[Wario64]

SA2 would have been great if it was all Sonic levels. I certainly did not enjoy those levels with Knuckles

 

[AniHawk]

I have yet to see a good explanation for this. Even the non-hedgehog levels at least had the awesome 60fps graphics. Blew my mind back in 2001.

The rest of the game slowed down the pace the Sonic and Shadow levels had set up. Rouge and Knuckles having collectathons for their levels were not fun in the least. It was kinda fun blowing shit up as Eggman and Tails, but still wasn't up to the intensity of Sonic and Shadow.

 

[jcjimher]

Um, Sonic 3 alone fells like an unfinished game.... because it's an unfinished game. The last Launch Base level is not a proper final level, and the last boss is a joke. With Sonic & Knuckles attached, it surely feels as the epic complete game that Sonic 3 should have been from the beginning, had it not been for the greed of Sega when they split the game and sold it *twice*.

Thus, I refuse to consider Sonic3 and Sonic & Knuckles as two separate releases. With this in mind, my ranking about level design would be:

Sonic 3 & Knuckles > Sonic 2 >> Sonic 1 >> Sonic CD >>>>>>> Sonic Advance.

First of all, I agree that the Sonic Advance series cant' compare with the old games when it comes to gameplay, because it just consists of a senseless running and running.

Sonic 3 and Sonic 2 are very close, but Sonic 3 has the Knuckles paths and the game, despite featuring much larger levels, feels even more polished than the second one in all aspects. Even the Carnival Night Zone or that crazy last Death Egg zone made sense after some playing for me.

Sonic 1 is clearly below those two games, and Sonic CD is even lower IMO. Sonic CD feels like a bastard sequel/remake of Sonic 1, (bastard because the real sequel was the already released Sonic 2). The stages have too much abrupt edges and walls that break the flow of the gameplay, and some elements like the spindash are worse implemented than in Sonic 2. On the other hand, the game has probably the best soundtrack of any Sonic game, and some very inspiring visuals (artistic-wise), but when it comes to gameplay and level design it's clearly the worst of the 16-bit Sonic games IMO.

 

[CoryCubed]

many consider Sonic 3 & Knuckles (locked on) to be the best sonic game ever.

I actually consider it one of my most favorite games, if not the favorite.

 

[Suerte]

All Sonic games rawk. The end.

 

[Great King Bowser]

Can someone explain what the difference between Sonic 3 and Sonic 3 + S+K is? I thought connecting the carts just allowed you to play as Knuckles in the game?

 

[op_ivy]

hmm, i rather loved sonic cd, and would rank them as follows

sonic 2 > sonic cd >>> sonic 1

i never spent much time with 3 or s&k. got burnt out i suppose

 

[belgurdo]

Probably gameplay wise. Knuckles/Rouge levels were just plain evil. Only thing SA2 had going for it were the Sonic/Shadow levels. Oh and chaos if you're into that sorta thing.

Get better at the game. Finding the pieces is piss easy if you don't run around like a maniac and ignore the clue boxes. Only difficult one is Mad Space.

ANd Sonic 3's level layouts were fine (better than Sonic 2's "go forward and occassionally down" level designs); I'm surprised that Carnival Night was such a stopgap to most people...

 

[MoxManiac]

Sonic 2 was definitely the best. Sonic 3 was decent, dunno why the music went into the shitter, though.

The SA games are horrible...hopefully that series is dead for good.

 

[Kobun Heat]

What hurts more when you hit yourself in the head with it, a hammer or a brick?

 

[imastalker co.]

only reason Sonic 3 sucked was because of the level design. you came to a complete halt waaaay too many times. i was a bit confused by this because Sonic Teams design philosophy is all about having good flow, something that Sonic 3 completely lacked.

the game just wasn't about speed.

 

[Warm Machine]

For whatever reason Sonic 3 was the first Sonic game where they tossed the angular graphic environments and went with really typical "realistic" levels. Even the Sonic character himself was redesigned and didn't look anywhere near as good as the prior 1,2, and CD. Knuckles Chaotix actually marked a return to that style but too bad that game had that terrible tether mechanic.

 

[Bauer Action Hour]

S3+K > *, though 2 and 1 are excellent as well.

The Adventure series, even part 1, sucks balls. It's just not Sonic. Never played the Advance games or Heroes and don't plan to.

Sonic Team, in the future make the next "proper" Sonic game on a 2D plane. Thanks.

 

[DDayton]

Neverplayed the Advance games or Heroes and don't plan to.
Sonic Team, in the future make the next "proper" Sonic game on a 2D plane. Thanks.

You know, odds are that the only way you'll ever play a new 2D Sonic again would be via the Sonic Advance games.

 

[Bauer Action Hour]

From what I've heard, the Advance games aren't worth playing. Why bother?

Besides, I don't care about the graphics being 2D, just the gameplay.

 

[kiryogi]

If anything, the finest sonic games this generation are the advance series.

 

[Kiriku]

I think Sonic 3 is the best in the series. I liked the gameplay additions, with the shields for example. Big levels yes, but rather than thinking "I'm confused", I thought "I wonder what's over there". It was fun re-playing the same levels finding other routes and more secrets.

And you didn't even have to explore, you could just run, run, run on some levels. Not ALL levels obviously, but when have you been able RUN through every level in a Sonic game? There have always been levels with "slower" gameplay in every Sonic game, Sonic 3 is no better or worse in this regard IMO.

I have only tried the first and 2nd Sonic Advance game briefly, but from what I've played I don't like them. I could feel it right away, the gameplay is "wrong". Maybe it's related to the flat character graphics as well, it just doesn't have the same feeling to it.

 

[RiZ III]

I have a hard time choosing between Sonic 2 and Sonic&Knuckles. 2 has a lot of memories attached to it but I think Knuckles had a much better design.

 

[Suerte]

I hear Advance 3 feels more like the genesis games, true?

 

[kiryogi]

Well, it does have a green hill remix

 

[Kobun Heat]

I hear Advance 3 feels more like the genesis games, true?

They'd pretty much have to.

 

[kiryogi]

Ohh, missed that part about the dash festivals. Sonic Advance 2 was indeed, but it was nice high octane action. Id say it was the pinnacle of if it wasn't for the music. In any case, advance 3 is a bit more like the originals + advance 1. It's a combination of everything thus far really. Features from advance 1-2 and Heroes.

 

[belgurdo]

From what I've heard, the Advance games aren't worth playing. Why bother?

Besides, I don't care about the graphics being 2D, just the gameplay.

"Hearing" is not the same thing as "playing."

 

[stonedwal]

While not a Sonic game as such, I'd give the worst levle design to Chaotix - absolutely woeful.

The graphical style and level design of the Advance games has really put me off. I keep trying to get into them, but it's an uphill battle.

 

[Gattsu25]

Sonic 3 is indeed a great game...especially with S&K

Sonic 1 was great...sonic 2 was fucking awesome...CD was great as well

Sonic Advance sucks ass

Sonic Adventure (Sonic and Tails) and SA2 (Sonic and Shadow) are just decent

 

[Spiritreaver]

I don't see why people have a problem with the Advance games, I've enjoyed each of them...

 

[Gattsu25]

My main problem with them is i can't stand the levels...the terrible art doesn't help either


and my problem with the adventure games is the other character's levels aren't fun...eggman's, knuckle's, etc. there was NO fun in those...and the actual sonic-style levels weren't up to quality either...good effort at bringing the series' gameplay into 3D but maybe it should stay in 2D

However, given the Advance games i'm more inclined to believe that Sonic Team, like the rest of SEGA, has gone to shit

 

[FightyF]

Um, Sonic 3 alone fells like an unfinished game.... because it's an unfinished game. The last Launch Base level is not a proper final level, and the last boss is a joke. With Sonic & Knuckles attached, it surely feels as the epic complete game that Sonic 3 should have been from the beginning, had it not been for the greed of Sega when they split the game and sold it *twice*.

Thus, I refuse to consider Sonic3 and Sonic & Knuckles as two separate releases. With this in mind, my ranking about level design would be:

Sonic 3 & Knuckles > Sonic 2 >> Sonic 1 >> Sonic CD >>>>>>> Sonic Advance.

First of all, I agree that the Sonic Advance series cant' compare with the old games when it comes to gameplay, because it just consists of a senseless running and running.

Sonic 3 and Sonic 2 are very close, but Sonic 3 has the Knuckles paths and the game, despite featuring much larger levels, feels even more polished than the second one in all aspects. Even the Carnival Night Zone or that crazy last Death Egg zone made sense after some playing for me.

Sonic 1 is clearly below those two games, and Sonic CD is even lower IMO. Sonic CD feels like a bastard sequel/remake of Sonic 1, (bastard because the real sequel was the already released Sonic 2). The stages have too much abrupt edges and walls that break the flow of the gameplay, and some elements like the spindash are worse implemented than in Sonic 2. On the other hand, the game has probably the best soundtrack of any Sonic game, and some very inspiring visuals (artistic-wise), but when it comes to gameplay and level design it's clearly the worst of the 16-bit Sonic games IMO.

Well said!

You hit the nail on the head, and said everything that needed to be said.

Oh and my own opinion regarding the 3D games...as Sonic sequels they are incredible dissappointments. As 3D platformers they are decent. I'll write an essay on this later

 

[Grubdog]

Ice Cap Zone and Hydrocity Zone save Sonic 3 for me.

My favourite Sonic game is Sonic Mega Collection =p, but back in the day it was Sonic 2, I would play that game for hours every time I picked it up, it was my favourite game of all time and is still up there among other games.

 

[boutrosinit]

I've been replaying the Sonic games, and I have to say IMO Sonic 3 is the worst. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just seems as if the others were more "finished" so to speak. Anywhoo, this is how good I think the Sonic games are:

Sonic 2>Sonic 1>Sonic CD>Sonic and Knuckles>Sonic 3.

We are in agreement (Y)

 

[jcjimher]

Sonic 3 alone had 6 zones, you could play as Sonic or Tails, and while Tails had access to some high places that Sonic couldn't reach, they basically followed the same path.

Sonic & Knuckles alone had 8 zones, although only the first four were proper complete stages with two acts each. The rest of them were more like a long and epic final (lots of boss battles and such). You could play as Sonic or Knuckles, and this time they not only had quite differente abilities, but there were also different paths in the acts and storylines for each other.

If you attached Sonic 3 to Sonic & Knuckles, you were presented a single game which consisted of the first 6 Sonic 3 stages, followed by the 8 S&K stages. The good thing is that you could play as Knuckles in all the Sonic 3 stages, unlocking the new paths in the first 6 levels and following a different storyline from the beginning as well.

This could seem like a big plus on Sega's side, but digging a bit into the original Sonic 3 game it was clear that S3&K was meant to be a single game that got split later for reasons I don't know (maybe greed or tight schedules, or both). The fact is that if you do the level select code in Sonic 3, you not only can see the names of all the S&K stages, but you can also listen to almost all its music as well. And, with the debug code, you can access the Knuckles areas and see some animation frames for Sonic and Tails that were only used in S&K stages. Add to that the cheapness of the Sonic 3 original ending (compared to the ultra-epic S&K ending), and the fact it only had 6 zones (while Sonic 2 had around 10), and that's why I felt quite disappointed 10 years ago .

Surely the separate release and the lock-on thing meant some added bonuses, the possibility of playing with Knuckles in Sonic 2 being the most notable of all. I would also bet that those Hyper Sonic and Hyper Knuckles thingies, or the doubled emeralds in the second half of the game, were added later because they didn't made much sense. Anyway, despite this bonuses I would have preferred Sega to release what would have clearly been the greatest and biggest Sonic game to date.

 

[Synbios459]

Can someone explain how exactly the Knuckles add-on worked? Like, did Yu already have the whole concept of Knuckles back when he was creating Sonic 2, and just decided to hide him? Or did the Knuckles add-on somehow rewrite the data in Sonic 2 and 3? And would it be possible to play Knuckles in Sonic 2 via Game Genie?