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[Kadve]

Malicious compliance at its best.

iOS apps can now offer external payment links, but Apple's rules make it very, very unappealing - Liliputing

iOS apps can now offer external payment links, but Apple's rules make it very, very unappealing

liliputing.com

This week the Supreme Court declined to hear appeals in the Epic v. Apple anti-trust case that’s been underway for the past few years regarding the company’s App Store.

That means lower court rulings stand, and that Apple does not have to allow users to sideload apps that aren’t available from the Play Store or to enable support for third-party app stores on its platform. But it also means Apple does have to allow developers to post links to alternate ways to pay for apps and subscriptions. Now Apple has done that. But it’s made the process just about as difficult and unappealing as possible for both developers and users.

According to Apple’s rules, developers need to follow a very strict set of guidelines and then submit a request to Apple to allow the approval of that external payment link, wait for Apple to approve the request, and only then can it be added.

• Developers can offer third-party payment in addition to App Store payment, but not as a replacement. All apps with in-app purchases for goods or subscriptions will still need to offer App Store payment as an option.
• Apps can only include a single link to an external site for payment, shown on a single page (that’s in a dedicated, persistent location in the app, and which cannot be shown anywhere else or in a pop-up, modal, or interstitial window).
• That page cannot be the same as Apple’s in-app purchase screen.
• It also cannot mimic Apple’s in-app purchase system or discourage users from use it.
• The external purchase link must open a new window in a user’s default web browser. Developers cannot use a web view to show that page in the app itself.
• Developers cannot include any information about external purchase options on the App Store product page for their apps or games.
• Apple’s StoreKit External Purchase Link API will show a “disclosure sheet” when users click a link to external payment, letting them know that they’re “about to go to an external website” and that “Apple is not responsible for the privacy or security or purchases made on the web.”

But possibly the biggest challenge is that while Apple is now letting developers point users toward alternate payment methods, there’s virtually no way for developers to save money by doing so. That’s because while Apple takes a 30% cut of in-app purchases or subscriptions when users make a purchase through the App Store, the company also wants to take a cut of purchases made through external website.

Apple says developers are required to pay Apple a 27% commission on any sales made after users click a link to an external payment source. Once you factor in credit card processing fees, it might actually cost developers more to offer this option.

The same goes for 12-month subscriptions. Apple normally charges developers 30% on the first year and 15% the following year, but the company says developers who offer annual subscriptions outside the App Store will have to pay Apple a 27% commission the first year and 12% for each following year.

 

[SJRB]

Idiots actually thought Apple was just going to let them use their platform without taking a cut.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Idiots actually thought Apple was just going to let them use their platform without taking a cut.

If that is how you read the above… well… sigh…

 

[Cyberpunkd]

But possibly the biggest challenge is that while Apple is now letting developers point users toward alternate payment methods, there’s virtually no way for developers to save money by doing so. That’s because while Apple takes a 30% cut of in-app purchases or subscriptions when users make a purchase through the App Store, the company also wants to take a cut of purchases made through external website.

Apple says developers are required to pay Apple a 27% commission on any sales made after users click a link to an external payment source. Once you factor in credit card processing fees, it might actually cost developers more to offer this option.

The same goes for 12-month subscriptions. Apple normally charges developers 30% on the first year and 15% the following year, but the company says developers who offer annual subscriptions outside the App Store will have to pay Apple a 27% commission the first year and 12% for each following year.

That is some Steve Jobs level of trolling.

 

[diffusionx]

Even if the EU seethes over this and demands they change it, Apple can afford to drag that process for years.

 

[Quasicat]

This would make it possible for Epic to bring Fortnite back to the App Store, but with the ill will between companies, I don’t think it’s ever going to happen.

 

[digital_ghost]

Tim Sweeny of epic right now:

 

[Trilobit]

Apple is a gross company.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

That's just petty, clearly a bunch of 8 year olds are running the company.

 

[ManaByte]

That's just petty, clearly a bunch of 8 year olds are running the company.

A bunch of super rich 8 year olds.

 

[PSYGN]

Apple is a gross company.

Tbh all big tech is gross, but Apple fanboys are obnoxious

 

[Shake Your Rump]

Epic literally prevents many games from being sold on any platform other than their own, yet they want the ability to directly sell their products on other platforms.

 

[demigod]

Apple stays winning!!!

This would make it possible for Epic to bring Fortnite back to the App Store, but with the ill will between companies, I don’t think it’s ever going to happen.

They got kicked off, I doubt Apple will let them back on there after doing that shady shit and dragging them to court.

 

[Sakura]

What is the point of forcing Apple to allow alternate payment options if they can still take a cut lol

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Apple is a gross company.

And yet out of all companies that were thinking what cause to champion for profit it was Apple that went with user privacy and security.

 

[Panajev2001a]

And yet out of all companies that were thinking what cause to champion for profit it was Apple that went with user privacy and security.

A lot of it is because they can monetise it and some of it is performative (see where iCloud servers are in China, see for how long they kept iCloud backups and encryption keys side by side, etc…): look at how they effectively created an ad monopoly for themselves with ATS and how their Ads unit posts higher and higher profit projections. Look at how they are now asking companies to forcibly track people and their purchase on the website (full week history purchase by the same user, even if they only used the app to website functionality once), etc…

This is gross by their standards, very gross.

 

[winjer]

 

[fran.fernandez]

Sounds ok for me lol.

 

[Codes 208]

And yet out of all companies that were thinking what cause to champion for profit it was Apple that went with user privacy and security.

I suppose that's a fair trade for meticulously gouging its users with overpriced accessories from $10 99c microfiber cloths to $1000 monitor stands

 

[Sonik]

Even if the EU seethes over this and demands they change it, Apple can afford to drag that process for years.

A few tens of billions in fines might change their minds

 

[diffusionx]

A few tens of billions of fines might change their minds

That's not the way it works.

EU can try to fine Apple but they have opened up the store based on their interpretation of the DMA and have experts/lawyers/ex-regulators on staff to do that interpretation. If the EU disagrees then they can go through the appeals and court process. That will take years. In that time any momentum for a 3rd party ecosystem on iOS is murdered. Sure seems like EU got outsmarted.

 

[Kenpachii]

That's not the way it works.

EU can try to fine Apple but they have opened up the store based on their interpretation of the DMA and have experts/lawyers/ex-regulators on staff to do that interpretation. If the EU disagrees then they can go through the appeals and court process. That will take years. In that time any momentum for a 3rd party ecosystem on iOS is murdered. Sure seems like EU got outsmarted.

EU can change shit whenever they feel like it. And if the EU feels like apple is not complying to what they wanted to reach apple gets a new deadline and that's it.

 

[Azelover]

Petty Hiroshi Yamauchi levels of greatness..

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The best way to solve shady business tactics is just charge giant fees. If the gov doesn't then the company wont care.

Think of it like Michael Jordan wearing Nike's back in the day and getting fined $5000 per game. What does he care. Back then he was probably making $50M per year. Heck, Nike probably covered the fine too.

But if the NBA said due to ongoing infractions Jordan would get charged $5M per game, he a Nike would abandon ship ASAP. Thats $410M of fines per season. And if that is not enough just suspend him until he stops wearing them. He'd change.

 

[diffusionx]

EU can change shit whenever they feel like it. And if the EU feels like apple is not complying to what they wanted to reach apple gets a new deadline and that's it.

No, again, that's not the way it works. Not even in the EU.

 

[AJUMP23]

Apple says developers are required to pay Apple a 27% commission on any sales made after users click a link to an external payment source. Once you factor in credit card processing fees, it might actually cost developers more to offer this option.

How can this be enforced. And this is just another lawsuit. Apple is just playing they have more lawyer and can drag it out in court longer.

 

[Kadve]

How can this be enforced. And this is just another lawsuit. Apple is just playing they have more lawyer and can drag it out in court longer.

They approve every link added and will reject it if you don't comply

 

[Soodanim]

A lot of it is because they can monetise it and some of it is performative (see where iCloud servers are in China, see for how long they kept iCloud backups and encryption keys side by side, etc…): look at how they effectively created an ad monopoly for themselves with ATS and how their Ads unit posts higher and higher profit projections. Look at how they are now asking companies to forcibly track people and their purchase on the website (full week history purchase by the same user, even if they only used the app to website functionality once), etc…

This is gross by their standards, very gross.

I'd like to know more about the bolded, but it's vague (too many pronouns, pal) and searching some of the key words just get me Apple site results. Can you link to something where I can read more, please?

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'd like to know more about the bolded, but it's vague (too many pronouns, pal) and searching some of the key words just get me Apple site results. Can you link to something where I can read more, please?

Distributing apps in the U.S. that provide an external purchase link - Support - Apple Developer

developer.apple.com

Apple is charging a commission on digital purchases initiated within seven days from link out, as described below. This will not capture all transactions that Apple has facilitated through the App Store, but is a reasonable means to account for the substantial value Apple provides developers, including in facilitating linked transactions.

Apple’s commission will be 27% on proceeds you earn from sales (“transactions“) to the user for digital goods or services on your website after a link out (i.e., they tap “Continue” on the system disclosure sheet), provided that the sale was initiated within seven days and the digital goods or services can be used in an app. This includes (a) any applicable taxes and (b) any adjustments for refunds, reversals and chargebacks. For auto-renewing subscriptions, (i) a sale initiated, including with a free trial or offer, within seven days after a link out is a transaction; and (ii) each subsequent auto-renewal after the subscription is initiated is also a transaction.

[…]

These commission rates apply to all amounts paid by each user net of transaction taxes charged by you. You will be responsible for the collection and remittance of any applicable taxes for sales processed by a third-party payment provider.

If you adopt this entitlement, you will be required to provide transaction reports within 15 calendar days following the end of each calendar month. Even if there were no transactions, you’re required to provide a report stating that is the case. If the cadence changes, we will update this page. To learn about the details that will need to be included in the report, view example reports. In the future, if Apple develops an API to facilitate reporting, you will be required to adopt such API within 30 days with an update of your app and follow the timing and requirements provided.

If payment to Apple is due, you will receive an invoice based on the reporting and will be required to remit payment to Apple for the amount invoiced within 30 days of the invoice being issued. Late payments bear interest at the rate of one percent (1%) per month or the highest rate permitted by law, whichever is less.

Please note that Apple has audit rights pursuant to the entitlement terms. This will allow Apple to review the accuracy of your record of digital transactions, ensuring the appropriate commission has been paid to Apple. Late payments accrue interest. Failure to pay Apple’s commission could result in the offset of in-app purchase proceeds owed to you, or other consequences such as removal of your app from the App Store, or termination from the Apple Developer Program.

 

[Soodanim]

Distributing apps in the U.S. that provide an external purchase link - Support - Apple Developer

developer.apple.com

That's a touch heavy handed. I wouldn't imagine that 7 days was enforceable legally speaking if anyone was bold enough to take Apple to court over it, that's a long time to hold dominion over a customer's choice. That's the ridiculous offer you make knowing you'll get haggled down to something far more reasonable.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

That's not the way it works.

EU can try to fine Apple but they have opened up the store based on their interpretation of the DMA and have experts/lawyers/ex-regulators on staff to do that interpretation. If the EU disagrees then they can go through the appeals and court process. That will take years. In that time any momentum for a 3rd party ecosystem on iOS is murdered. Sure seems like EU got outsmarted.

This has nothing to do with EU? Its US thing at the moment, no?

No, again, that's not the way it works. Not even in the EU.

Works just fine with every car related regulation, EU set a date, you don't follow the restriction you get fined.
I don't see why Apple would get any other treatment. Worked for EU Data storage, USB-C, GDPR etc...

 

[SidViscous]

This is going to go full pachinko where the external link doesn't directly buy you the in-app stuff, but buys you credits you can then "redeem" in the app and exchange for the DLC stuff, to skirt around whatever petty rules Apple is putting in place.

 

[DaciaJC]

Apple says developers are required to pay Apple a 27% commission on any sales made after users click a link to an external payment source. Once you factor in credit card processing fees, it might actually cost developers more to offer this option.

I didn't follow this whole thing very closely, but wasn't that the whole point of the lawsuit to begin with, that developers should be able to provide users with an alternate payment pathway that doesn't give a cut to Apple (or did I completely misunderstand the case)? If so, I can't imagine how this satisfies the terms of the ruling.

 

[peish]

This has nothing to do with EU? Its US thing at the moment, no?


Works just fine with every car related regulation, EU set a date, you don't follow the restriction you get fined.
I don't see why Apple would get any other treatment. Worked for EU Data storage, USB-C, GDPR etc...

EU always doing some surface pandering leftist shit, hypocrisy and all

Who cares about sideloading and sketchy third party payment portals

Just pay through apple for added security and if anything look to apple to resolve

Everyone please stop hatin’ and also hold some apple stocks to balance things out

 

[ScHlAuChi]

EU always doing some surface pandering leftist shit, hypocrisy and all

Leftist shit like General Data Protection - who needs such garbage!

Who cares about sideloading and sketchy third party payment portals

So any payment portal - like PayPal, Klarna etc, that isnt Apple, is sketchy? Interesting take....

Just pay through apple for added security and if anything look to apple to resolve

You mean the added security that Apples former security chief calls terrible?

Apple engineer likened App Store security to ‘butter knife in gunfight’

Revelation part of legal documents released by Epic Games ahead of antitrust trial

www.ft.com

Or the security of Apple approving multiple fake crypto apps and then saying it was the users fault?

iPhone user loses $600,000 after downloading scam Bitcoin app from Apple's store

The story began last month when Phillipe Christodoulou wanted to check his Bitcoin balance. He decided to do a search for "Trezor," the company that makes the...

www.techspot.com

Everyone please stop hatin’ and also hold some apple stocks to balance things out

Good idea, I´m pretty sure clashing with the EU regulators by non compliance and having a looming anti trust case in the US will raise that stock!

 

[peish]

Leftist shit like General Data Protection - who needs such garbage!


So any payment portal - like PayPal, Klarna etc, that isnt Apple, is sketchy? Interesting take....


You mean the added security that Apples former security chief calls terrible?

Apple engineer likened App Store security to ‘butter knife in gunfight’

Revelation part of legal documents released by Epic Games ahead of antitrust trial

www.ft.com

Or the security of Apple approving multiple fake crypto apps and then saying it was the users fault?

iPhone user loses $600,000 after downloading scam Bitcoin app from Apple's store

The story began last month when Phillipe Christodoulou wanted to check his Bitcoin balance. He decided to do a search for "Trezor," the company that makes the...

www.techspot.com

Good idea, I´m pretty sure clashing with the EU regulators by non compliance and having a looming anti trust case in the US will raise that stock!

Do you feel protected in EU ?

As a consumer why should i care about sideloading or having to key in my details with other payment portals? These gives off more security risks, so what’s the tangible benefits to me for EU to make such a fuss….

Give me one Apple login as intended by Tim Apple

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Do you feel protected in EU ?

Yes? Considering I did not receive a single robo call in my life that is as I understand a plague in the US?

Internet fees at 20€?
Mobile plans for 15€?
24 months obligatory warranty on everything vs. 12 months in the US?
Affordable healthcare?
Free education?
GDPR laws that made Apple force apps to demand not to track you?

Fuck yes, I feel protected. Move here, we are always looking for skilled people.

 

[Clear]

Idiots actually thought Apple was just going to let them use their platform without taking a cut.

I know... Bless!

Been telling people for literally years that getting the law or some other sort of regulation involved is always a partial solution at best. Getting one means of monetization outlawed doesn't remove the desirability for monetization; it just puts up a barrier to be worked around. Or in this instance erecting fresh barriers to incentivize the most lucrative monetization pathway for the operator.

 

[Trilobit]

As a consumer why should i care about sideloading or having to key in my details with other payment portals? These gives off more security risks, so what’s the tangible benefits to me for EU to make such a fuss….

Give me one Apple login as intended by Tim Apple

I'm not sure I understand you correctly, you are complaining that you are getting more personal choices? You can still continue letting daddy Tim decide for you and then others who want more freedom can choose that.

I've used sideloading maybe once on my Android phone and was aware of the risks, but I was happy that it was possible as it allowed me to use and connect an older pheripheral device that still works perfectly fine, to my phone.

 

[peish]

I'm not sure I understand you correctly, you are complaining that you are getting more personal choices? You can still continue letting daddy Tim decide for you and then others who want more freedom can choose that.

I've used sideloading maybe once on my Android phone and was aware of the risks, but I was happy that it was possible as it allowed me to use and connect an older pheripheral device that still works perfectly fine, to my phone.

I hate having to deal with such risks, thank god this stays in EU.

 

[Tams]

Do you feel protected in EU ?

As a consumer why should i care about sideloading or having to key in my details with other payment portals? These gives off more security risks, so what’s the tangible benefits to me for EU to make such a fuss….

Give me one Apple login as intended by Tim Apple

I'm not in the EU anymore, but when I was, yes, yes I did.

Things like two year warranties, unlike the shitty one year one standard almost everywhere else.

And that warranty? Yeah, Apple tried to swindle people on that by including the mandatory warranty in their 'extended' warranty products. They got found out, fined, and forced to change it.

 

[Erebus]

Curious to see EU's reaction to this. Good stuff.

 

[DeafTourette]

I'm so weirded out by Apple stans who are ok with limited choice, being told what's best for them and unchecked capitalism... And balk at accountability....

The cult is real!

 

[Trilobit]

I hate having to deal with such risks, thank god this stays in EU.

Using a Mac or any computer must be a terrifying experience to you.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

And that warranty? Yeah, Apple tried to swindle people on that by including the mandatory warranty in their 'extended' warranty products. They got found out, fined, and forced to change it.

They still do that in the EU, showing 12-months coverage in all their products when the actual one is clearly 24 months.

 

[Kenpachii]

No, again, that's not the way it works. Not even in the EU.

That's exactly how it works

https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-faces-strong-action-if-app-store-changes-fall-short-eus-breton-says-2024-01-26/

EU decides the rules not apple.