At what point does Xbox (The Console) become in danger of losing 3rd party day one support?

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onQ123

Member
An ~30 million user base is nothing to sneeze at but devs soon will have their hands full optimizing for PS5, Xbox Series, Steam Deck , Steam Machine, Steam PC , Xbox PC , Xbox Aly X , Switch 2 , PS6 & so on.

Switch 2 user base is growing fast & PS5 is pulling even further ahead so at some point the Xbox Series port might become an afterthought.
 
Xbox's biggest mistake was making GamePass so cheap in the beginning no one needed to buy anything, I primerly play on my Series X and I have bought 3 games this generation (Tales of Arise, Cyberpunk, Elden Ring), and I have no reason to buy anything on that is why they lost third party support
 
Steam PC only has one SKU by the Windows SDK. It then runs via Proton on the Deck or Machine.

Xbox PC SKU created by the GDK is what runs on the Xbox Ally X, the Handheld Optimization is optional, the GDK version scales based on hardware capabilities. The Console SKU is just the GDKX optimized version of the GDK game. It's all one unified environment.

PS6 Canis and Orion will be sharing the same dev environment, even including PS5.

There's only 4 dev environments for developers to target. Playstation, Xbox, Steam/Epic, Nintendo. You just listed more items than necessary in order to push your narrative. But go on.
 
Tobimacoss said:
Steam PC only has one SKU by the Windows SDK. It then runs via Proton on the Deck or Machine.

Xbox PC SKU created by the GDK is what runs on the Xbox Ally X, the Handheld Optimization is optional, the GDK version scales based on hardware capabilities. The Console SKU is just the GDKX optimized version of the GDK game. It's all one unified environment.

PS6 Canis and Orion will be sharing the same dev environment, even including PS5.

There's only 4 dev environments for developers to target. Playstation, Xbox, Steam/Epic, Nintendo. You just listed more items than necessary in order to push your narrative. But go on.
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I made sure to say " Optimizing" I know the games could run on all these devices as is but the more they sell the more important it becomes to have them optimized at or near launch.
 
onQ123 said:
I made sure to say " Optimizing" I know the games could run on all these devices as is but the more they sell the more important it becomes to have them optimized at or near launch.
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The Machine has other issues than optimization. Like not being able to run multiplayer games.

IF one is already using the GDK to build Xbox ecosystem game, then Optimization at least for Consoles is guaranteed as MS won't certify the game. There are very few GDK created Xbox PC games without a Console counterpart. Mostly ForSpoken and some Early Access titles. Console Optimization is mandatory for Xbox ecosystem, as that SKU also runs on xCloud. Handheld Optimization is optional.

news.xbox.com

Coming to Xbox Game Pass: Fortnite Crew, The Crew Motorfest, Moonlighter 2: The Endless Vault, and More - Xbox Wire

Coming soon to Game Pass: Fortnite Crew, The Crew Motorfest, Moonlighter 2: The Endless Vault, and more!
news.xbox.com news.xbox.com

As you can see in the Coming Soon infographic, only games with Presets get the Handheld Optimization tag.
 
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Tobimacoss said:
If a game is in the Xbox ecosystem, it will be optimized for Magnus.
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Define "games in the Xbox ecosystem". Third parties like Square Enix won't optimize games for a console that barely sells.
vaibhavpisal said:
Compare base PS5 or PS5 pro with equivalent GPU.

Let us know how much better console performs due to optimisation.
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Most modern AAA games including the UE5 and RE engine ones are optimized way better on PC than PS5.
 
Didn't Heisenberg said 3rd parties aren't really happy with Microsoft competing with them in PS store (and soon Switch 2 eShop) while already benefiting from 30% of their sales on Xbox store ?

And when you see the Circana charts filled with now Microsoft games, you understand why
 
Microsoft have made targeting Xbox simple enough that effort required to make an Xbox version when you're already making a PC version is minimal.
If their next console has Windows support, then it won't matter anyway.
 
Bernkastel said:
Define "games in the Xbox ecosystem". Third parties like Square Enix won't optimize games for a console that barely sells.
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Xbox ecosystem as in games that run with Xbox backend, for licensing, Cloud saves, multiplayer etc. Basically anything created by the GDK.

Magnus entire Raison d'être is for Console Optimization. Otherwise they could simply release different hardware at various price points from multiple vendors.

If a game is in Xbox ecosystem, it will be optimized in order to get certification. Simple. A publisher is either in or out, no in between. IF they want to get on Gamepass, or xCloud, or even the Console's default storefront, or want free MS marketing, they will need a GDKX optimized Xbox ecosystem version for Magnus AT2.
 
onQ123 said:
An ~30 million user base is nothing to sneeze at but devs soon will have their hands full optimizing for PS5, Xbox Series, Steam Deck , Steam Machine, Steam PC , Xbox PC , Xbox Aly X , Switch 2 , PS6 & so on.

Switch 2 user base is growing fast & PS5 is pulling even further ahead so at some point the Xbox Series port might become an afterthought.
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If the next Xbox has access to Steam and is effectively a PC, would it even matter?
 
onQ123 said:
I'm pretty sure it would matter to the people with Xbox Series consoles
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Good point. I missed the point that this was about it specifically. In that regard I would say it already has, no? BG3 and Wukong being examples.
 
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Three said:
If it basically runs the windows developed version of a game why wouldn't they release on it though?
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I meant optimize for that hardware.
Tobimacoss said:
Xbox ecosystem as in games that run with Xbox backend, for licensing, Cloud saves, multiplayer etc. Basically anything created by the GDK.

Magnus entire Raison d'être is for Console Optimization. Otherwise they could simply release different hardware at various price points from multiple vendors.

If a game is in Xbox ecosystem, it will be optimized in order to get certification. Simple. A publisher is either in or out, no in between. IF they want to get on Gamepass, or xCloud, or even the Console's default storefront, or want free MS marketing, they will need a GDKX optimized Xbox ecosystem version for Magnus AT2.
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And why would games be made for Xbox ecosystem for a 1200 $ system that no one except for the few hardcore are going to buy?
 
Tobimacoss said:
What's a "windows developed version of a game"? What do you have in mind when you say that.
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I mean using DX12 and other MS APIs which windows and xbox share, which make a port a less expensive effort compared to the past. Now everything is almost the same whereas in the 360 era the APIs were different, the engines more customised for non-x86 hardware (not all cross compatible UE either) making ports between systems less likely due to cost.

If the rumour of other windows based stores is true then even more than that too. Unless xbox doesn't make windows based stores and their games compatible which is a possibility too considering I'm hearing the xbox shills now talking about "sideloading" a lot, meaning devs will have to create their own stores and still target a separate xbox version of games while MS can claim to be "open" to regulators and how they're so "proconsumer" while nobody actually targets the xbox.
 
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The next Xbox is rumoured to be a console/PC hybrid so if this is true then it won't matter if third-parties ignore the 'Xbox' because their games would still be available for PC.

Also, there are rumours that Sony is planning to abandon their PC ports of single player games, choosing only to release live service titles on PC going forward. I can't help but wonder if this is because of concerns that future Xbox owners would be able to play PS5/PS6 games on their hybrid consoles via Steam. This may only be a rumour and nothing concrete but it was something that crossed my mind when I saw a YouTube video on the topic pop up in my feed and it would make sense for them to change their strategy for that reason. Kind of.
 
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I wouldn't be surprised if developers already aren't initiating new projects with Xbox Series as a planned platform. Existing titles in development of course will be finished, this includes GTA6
 
Tobimacoss said:
Why did the chicken cross the road? To get on Gamepass and xCloud.

There are over 50 million active Xbox Console userbase.
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Most of them won't buy a 1200 $ console. Many of them like me have already abandoned the ship after believing in Xbox goodwill PR through 8th gen and early 9th gen. People have been leaving the Xbox ecosystem since late 360. Also, you can't just join Xbox One and Xbox Series numbers as separate. Game Pass number is around 35 million but with the 30 $ hike it would be way lower now.
 
L*][*N*K said:
Xbox's biggest mistake was making GamePass so cheap in the beginning no one needed to buy anything, I primerly play on my Series X and I have bought 3 games this generation (Tales of Arise, Cyberpunk, Elden Ring), and I have no reason to buy anything on that is why they lost third party support
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Maybe we can make a board poll about how many games people here who're not anti Xbox has bought for Xbox/Xbox App?

I've bought 1 game, which I didn't even like and wanted to refund but I had stepped over the days-since-purchase limit. Everything else has been played through Gamepass.

I'm still using cheap deals so I haven't turned sour on the service yet. For me it's awesome, especially this year when the games output has been good.
 
I can't see developers prioritising a niche pre-build (with quirks) that will sell a few thousand units over the general PC hardware combinations people put together today.

Xbox Series will continue to see support for its natural generation lifecycle, but I can see MS dropping support for this PC hybrid very, very quickly. To a point where users will end up having to install newer Windows, drivers, software themselves after a short period. Something that might end up leading to many issues if a few components are not standard.

Most users also aren't going to be spending £1000+ on a machine just for their existing Xbox library, when they could keep their current One/Series console for that.
 
If we believe the leaks saying both xbox pc and ps6 gonna launch holidays 2027, then it means by that time crossgen period starts, so likely around 2030 xbox series will barely get any 3rd party support(probably only legacy version of fifa/madden/nba2k and such), ps5(likely 120m units+ of instalbase by then and equaly important no gamepass unlike in xbox case)probably gonna ride the x-gen train till 2032, obviously not with all the games but with many for sure.
 
If Xbox Series S support continues to be mandatory that will accelerate the Xbox Series consoles being dropped. Porting to Xbox Series X from PS5 is minimal effort, porting to Series S, with 10gb of ram, is a pain in the ass. I think Xbox Series versions of games could start disappearing by as early as 2028. While PS5 will probably keep getting cross-gen releases into 2031/2032.
 
L*][*N*K said:
Xbox's biggest mistake was making GamePass so cheap in the beginning no one needed to buy anything, I primerly play on my Series X and I have bought 3 games this generation (Tales of Arise, Cyberpunk, Elden Ring), and I have no reason to buy anything on that is why they lost third party support
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I have bought 62 games on my Series X this gen so far and puts my library at 800 games I own on Xbox. I am not a game pass subscriber. They have my third party support. It's where I get most of my third party games.

Most games aren't on Game Pass. In fact when it came out there were only 100.
 
It already is.
200.gif
 
Kvally said:
I have bought 62 games on my Series X this gen so far and puts my library at 800 games I own on Xbox. I am not a game pass subscriber. They have my third party support. It's where I get most of my third party games.

Most games aren't on Game Pass. In fact when it came out there were only 100.
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What the hell are you talking about?
 
Fess said:
Maybe we can make a board poll about how many games people here who're not anti Xbox has bought for Xbox/Xbox App?

I've bought 1 game, which I didn't even like and wanted to refund but I had stepped over the days-since-purchase limit. Everything else has been played through Gamepass.

I'm still using cheap deals so I haven't turned sour on the service yet. For me it's awesome, especially this year when the games output has been good.
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Yeah we actually should
 
I mean it's much better rn than the One ever was, but even now they get excluded out of games every now and then, and a surprising amount of those games turn out to be sleeper hits (Latest ones are Dispatch and Where Winds Meet).

I think a lot of devs simply skip out on providing an XDK version and just post Steam/Epic/GOG, if Microsoft wants them to be on the cloud then these devs will probably want a GP deal.
 
Xbox total collapse started basically last year with "only 4 games".
It's doubtful that publishers expected such a rapid negative outcome and considering that games need years to be developed, they won't cancel what's already in development (although companies like Rockstar were royally fucked by betting on Xbox instead of a day one PC version of GTAVI) and they won't give up immediately on the possibility to sell their games to a 30m potential audience (although given how these people got used to not pay full price for games the effective installed base is much much lower).

The problem exists for the future but was kinda removed by Microsoft itself since their future hardware will be basically a PC, a Steam-box manufactured by MS with the Xbox logo likely capable of running native PC code, so developers will just support PC. Xbox as a dedicated closed platform is dead so no problem to support something that won't exist anymore in 2 years.
 
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I think it already has, a lot of games are just released on the other systems without even mentioning the word "exclusive" in their communications.

I'm not going to build a list while on my phone, but this has been known for a while.

When will CoD skip Xbox? That's the real question.
 
This forum can't go a day without a new Xbox doom thread can it?

Threads be like: "I stubbed my toe this morning, what does this mean for Xbox market share?"
 
adamsapple said:
If the next Xbox will play games from Steam etc natively, then the answer is never.
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The next Xbox will be based on Windows; it's a PC called Xbox, xino xbox in name only. If that happens, the Xbox Series X has no reason to receive new games because this hinders the SDK transition.

We've seen this type of transition before: the old product stops receiving games while the new one claims to be the same as the old one, but all the new games are only compatible with the new one.
 
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