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[Drexon]

So who among us are atheists? I one day found out I was an "atheist" when I said I didn't believe in a god or as that stupid movie contact described it, "higher power". I didn't "want" to be an atheist, cuz at the time I didn't really know what it was, but as it turned out it's just someone who doesn't believe in crazy stories from thousands of years ago.

Ok, this thread is by no means a way to bash christians or any other religion, just wanna know if this is widespread and maybe a couple of reasons for being atheist. And ofcourse the floor is open for widespread bashing against religions, in joking form that is.

Please don't kill me.

 

[sefskillz]

as it turned out it's just someone who doesn't believe in crazy stories from thousands of years ago.

takes just as much faith to believe in those stories as it does to believe there is no higher power. chances are, you're agnostic.

 

[crawlingpeter]

id consider myself more of a freethinker

 

[Drexon]

First: MAN! I am good at trolling! I hate myself for that. Sorry also.

What is an Agnostic?
Bertrand Russell

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What Is an agnostic?
An agnostic thinks it impossible to know the truth in matters such as God and the future life with which Christianity and other religions are concerned. Or, if not impossible, at least impossible at the present time.

Are agnostics atheists?
No. An atheist, like a Christian, holds that we can know whether or not there is a God. The Christian holds that we can know there is a God; the atheist, that we can know there is not. The Agnostic suspends judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for affirmation or for denial. At the same time, an Agnostic may hold that the existence of God, though not impossible, is very improbable; he may even hold it so improbable that it is not worth considering in practice. In that case, he is not far removed from atheism. His attitude may be that which a careful philosopher would have towards the gods of ancient Greece. If I were asked to prove that Zeus and Poseidon and Hera and the rest of the Olympians do not exist, I should be at a loss to find conclusive arguments. An Agnostic may think the Christian God as improbable as the Olympians; in that case, he is, for practical purposes, at one with the atheists.

Definitions of atheist on the Web:

A person whose worldview embraces Atheism [noun] [OW]. The natural condition of all humans at birth and prior to indoctrination in or self-invention of Theism. Atheists claim there is no proof for God. "Strong" Atheists claim God does not exist. "Weak" Atheists do not deny the possibility of God, or that proof might eventually be discovered. Athiest and Athesit are Fundie synonyms of Atheist [SD]. The word Atheism [CE] derives from the Greek atheos, a = without, theos = God.

I'm gonna go with door number 2.

 

[iapetus]

Athiest and Athesit are Fundie synonyms of Atheist [SD].

Um. Surely they're just misspellings of Atheist?

That's pretty much the set of definitions I go with, and I consider myself an agnostic. Given that you're going with that set of definitions, would you consider yourself a strong atheist (in which case sefskillz's point holds true) or a weak atheist (which going by the definitions given here is very little removed from agnosticism, IMO)?

 

[SpoonyBard]

Yeah, I'm atheist.

 

[Dan]

I consider myself an athiest even though I know it's irrational to both believe or not believe in a higher being. Rationally, I should be an agnostic, but I find being an athiest is more motivational and practical, and just works better for me.

 

[Drexon]

Guh, all these titles. Strong, weak, agnostic. I just don't believe in any of the known god's that religion(s) speak of. So no, I don't even recognize the idea of a god ever existing. Did we believe in gods 100000 years ago?

 

[Drexon]

Spoony> Please, go on. And while you're at it, you might wanna clarify the "exact" version of atheist you are, as there seems to be versions now.

I consider myself an athiest even though I know it's irrational to both believe or not believe in a higher being. Rationally, I should be an agnostic, but I find being an athiest is more motivational and practical, and just works better for me.

Hmm, interesting. Please elaborate on that. Give us some chunky details.

*God I sound like a sex in the city lady*

 

[ypo]

Seeing is believing.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Meh, it's all semantics. Agnostics are just atheists with no balls

 

[pnjtony]

I'm a weak atheist. I know that sounds well...weak and all, but the main difference between a strong and weak atheist is that a strong one contends that it's absolutely impossible for there to be or ever been a god. A weak atheist doesn't believe in any gods but recognizes that as humans, we don't and will never know all the secrets of the universe. It's all still atheist though.

 

[dark10x]

I'm a weak atheist. I know that sounds well...weak and all, but the main difference between a strong and weak atheist is that a strong one contends that it's absolutely impossible for there to be or ever been a god. A weak atheist doesn't believe in any gods but recognizes that as humans, we don't and will never know all the secrets of the universe. It's all still atheist though.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel too.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Another weak atheist for the reasons stated. And Bertrand Russel was a pussy.

 

[Drexon]

Weaklings! Moahahaa! Nah, just putting you down.

Still, you gotta achknowledge (I will never know how to spell that word) that science (basically logic) has done a helluva lot and come a pretty long way, even though we thought we'd come a long way back in the Newton days when we said there was nothing else to discover. I'm just not so optimistic about that one day we'll just be slumped about sertain stuff happening and we won't be able to explain it. We can basically explain life, do you need more than that?

 

[fallout]

The way I see it, it's fine to voice your opinion on atheism, so long as you don't call those who voice the opposing opinion "peachy". I've got nothing against atheists, but it's really annoying when I'm told that dumb for believing in a higher power (or whatever you care to call it), yet when I try to voice my opinion on it, I'm called "preachy".

Heh, I'd say that it works both ways of course, but I've never seen it happen.

 

[Dan]

Hmm, interesting. Please elaborate on that. Give us some chunky details.

Well, looking at those definitions now, I guess I'd be a weak athiest.

Anyway, I just find it motivational to keep my beliefs and all of that internal. I don't put any belief or faith in any external things and that allows me to take responsiblity for my life, for better or worse. Along with not believing in a god, I don't believe in an afterlife, and embracing that pushes or forces me to make the best of the 80 or so years I have on this planet. Stuff like that I guess. I find my mental health much improved after embracing athiesm and just centering my world on myself and not any external force.

I find it strangely liberating.

 

[Tarazet]

Agnostic, because I don't think Man has ever had any real insight into the Divine Being and its nature is still a mystery, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Kuroyume]

I'm an atheist but I say that there might be a god because who knows maybe there is, I don't know. I am VERY anti-religion though.... we have enough nuts on the streets.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I consider myself an athiest even though I know it's irrational to both believe or not believe in a higher being. Rationally, I should be an agnostic, but I find being an athiest is more motivational and practical, and just works better for me.

Word. Obviously the agnostic position that we can never really know is true... but that's the case about EVERYTHING. Do I know a god didn't just create me with the world and supposed past memories 3 seconds ago? No, I can't disprove it. Do I know that's really a camera in front of me and not an awesome shapeshifter? Do I really know that there are any cameras which aren't really shapeshifters? No, I can't truly tell one way or the other, but I wouldn't consider myself a "camera agnostic".

 

[Manics]

but as it turned out it's just someone who doesn't believe in crazy stories from thousands of years ago.

Ok, this thread is by no means a way to bash christians or any other religion

Calling them "crazy stories" could be a form of bashing.

 

[McLesterolBeast]

Agnostic, because I don't think Man has ever had any real insight into the Divine Being and its nature is still a mystery, as far as I'm concerned.

No.

I'm positive that some being created the basic flora and fauna. I don't see any way around it.
...
But I don't see the possibility of a rabbit turning into a deer. Something had to create the first deer. That's where the Divine Being is the logical, rational answer.

Not agnostic.

 

[Drexon]

The way I see it, it's fine to voice your opinion on atheism, so long as you don't call those who voice the opposing opinion "peachy". I've got nothing against atheists, but it's really annoying when I'm told that dumb for believing in a higher power (or whatever you care to call it), yet when I try to voice my opinion on it, I'm called "preachy".

Heh, I'd say that it works both ways of course, but I've never seen it happen.

If you look carefully inside your self you'll find the answer to that.

Agnostic, because I don't think Man has ever had any real insight into the Divine Being and its nature is still a mystery, as far as I'm concerned.

So that "the Divine Being" and everything like that is a creation of man doens't bother you? You do know there was a time when we couldn't talk (atleast like we do. Cummunicate, probably) or had any perception of time, space, god(s), right? Even if it might me in the very beginning of mankind it still must've existed such a time.

 

[Drexon]

Word. Obviously the agnostic position that we can never really know is true... but that's the case about EVERYTHING. Do I know a god didn't just create me with the world and supposed past memories 3 seconds ago? No, I can't disprove it. Do I know that's really a camera in front of me and not an awesome shapeshifter? Do I really know that there are any cameras which aren't really shapeshifters? No, I can't truly tell one way or the other, but I wouldn't consider myself a "camera agnostic".

Occam's Razor
one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything

Basically what I'm thinking.

Calling them "crazy stories" could be a form of bashing.

Yeah I know, that's why I said I'm such a good troller. I really must better myself at that aspect of my life.

 

[Fresh Prince]

Atheist +1

 

[Tarazet]

Beast, you're right - I had my definitions mixed up. I'm theistic.

So that "the Divine Being" and everything like that is a creation of man doens't bother you? You do know there was a time when we couldn't talk (atleast like we do. Cummunicate, probably) or had any perception of time, space, god(s), right? Even if it might me in the very beginning of mankind it still must've existed such a time.

No, I believe there is a divine being but our concepts of it are probably all wrong.

 

[fallout]

If you look carefully inside your self you'll find the answer to that.

Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding this, but you do realize that I just said that I have nothing against atheists and atheists voicing their views, right?

I know it sounds like a dumb complaint, but I feel that it's a valid one. I really hate being accused of forcing my beliefs on others when all I'm doing is responding to a debate.

 

[McLesterolBeast]

Beast, you're right - I had my definitions mixed up. I'm theistic.

It SOUNDS like you're more deistic than you are theistic.

 

[Drexon]

So the fact (well, more or less) that gods were created by man just for the soul reason that we don't know everything isn't a bother? I mean, christianity even thought that the earth was the center of the universe for a goood time before it changed it's mind. Doesn't that discredit every belief that isn't scientifically based? They were just substitutes for science, and along came science and then those beliefs were no longer needed. Or?

 

[Fresh Prince]

It SOUNDS like you're more deistic than you are theistic.

Definitions?

 

[radios shipping overview]

Weak atheist here, and my views are mostly secular humanist. Science and social science provide the answers I seek, and everything I've read on history and anthropology points to our religions and deities being constructs of humankind. I don't need religious beliefs or the associated mental gymnastics in my life, nor do I need the social structure of an organized religion. I do recognize, however, that what works for me may not work for other people, and that religion can provide a definite benefit in some people's lives. I would never try to force my views on others, and I appreciate when those who don't share my beliefs don't try to force theirs on me.

 

[Tarazet]

The distinction between 'deist' and 'theist' is that a deist believes God created the world and then abandoned it. Since my stand is basically that I don't know, I would call myself the more general theist rather than go specific.

 

[Drexon]

To fallout and everybody else: In the science vs. religion case science has the upper hand in the long run. Achknowledging science is achknowledging it forever. Once you turn you can never go back. This is the reason atheists bash other beliefs, simply because they're totally sure about their thing and that that is the most probobal answer (occam's). Also I welcome other views, but your it's on your own risc.

 

[pnjtony]

a theist believes in a god...like an authoritarian figure...deists believe in higher powers...mystic energy and whatnot...something controlling "destiny" but not an old man with a white beard in the sky that talks to you.

 

[pixelated]

I'm a secular humanist, non-theist. Basicly how jiji explained in the first couple of sentences.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I don't think a deist necessarily believes God "abandoned" the world so much as leaves it alone.

When my thinking was more along Deist lines, I felt an omnipotent god would not *need* to intervene in the world, as everything woudl happen as he planned for.

(I was also a determinist, in the comp-sci sense, not the predestination sense, by the way).

 

[Warm Machine]

Athiest here.

Just like these people...

http://www.celebatheists.com/

 

[tt_deeb]

Athiest here.

Just like these people...

http://www.celebatheists.com/

That's not exactly completely accurate. Bjork isn't athiest, she just doesn't beleive in organized religions.

Having the same religion is like having the same fingerprint

Same goes for Tool.

 

[fallout]

So the fact (well, more or less) that gods were created by man just for the soul reason that we don't know everything isn't a bother? I mean, christianity even thought that the earth was the center of the universe for a goood time before it changed it's mind. Doesn't that discredit every belief that isn't scientifically based? They were just substitutes for science, and those beliefs were no longer needed. Or?

Heh, as Maynard once said ... Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, they all had great ideas. Then their agents moved in and fucked it all up.

Anyway, Christianity doesn't even exist as an organized religion, but why do people always assume that science and religion are meant to counter each other? Yeah, religion was a source of scientific knowledge many years ago, but the fact that it's not anymore doesn't mean that it serves no further purpose. It's always held the belief in a higher power and preached the ideal that we should follow the golden rule.

 

[Tarazet]

I don't think a deist necessarily believes God "abandoned" the world so much as leaves it alone.

God (for lack of any better word) certainly doesn't come out of the clouds and talk to people, but I'm not prepared to say that there is no involvement. There may not be, but I just can't tell and, really, wouldn't expect to be able to distinguish an act of God.

When my thinking was more along Deist lines, I felt an omnipotent god would not *need* to intervene in the world, as everything woudl happen as he planned for.

It's an intriguing idea. Certainly, a sneaky way of justifying a belief in a higher power.

(I was also a determinist, in the comp-sci sense, not the predestination sense, by the way).

This is another question I don't bother with. I don't much care if the freedom we seem to have is an illusion, because most of us can't tell the difference anyway.

 

[NLB2]

Hi everyone. My name's Nathan, and I'm an agnostic.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

A: God (for lack of any better word) certainly doesn't come out of the clouds and talk to people, but I'm not prepared to say that there is no involvement. There may not be, but I just can't tell and, really, wouldn't expect to be able to distinguish an act of God.



B: It's an intriguing idea. Certainly, a sneaky way of justifying a belief in a higher power.



C: This is another question I don't bother with. I don't much care if the freedom we seem to have is an illusion, because most of us can't tell the difference anyway.

A: I suppose I wouldn't either, but it was a belief, not a reasoned stance.

B: And that's all it was, really, hence my primary identification as an atheist today.

C: Me either. Actually, I'd go further, but it's a whole 'nother topic that basically adds up to "It doesn't really matter"

 

[nathkenn]

agnostic, don't know, don't care

 

[Priz]

So what's a "Bright" and how does it differ?

 

[pnjtony]

So what's a "Bright" and how does it differ?

Bright is just a blanket term for mysticism-free people. Obviously atheists but then fall under a lot of the difference sects. I find the word elitist and arrogant. It implies they're smarter than everyone else.

 

[madara]

No atheist here. I go with higher power theme. I just been to close death with my illness over years not have experienced some really wild things.. to quote yellow guy, Sorry I just dont share you bleak world views.

 

[Koshiro]

Yeah, I'm atheist.

^

 

[Manabanana]

I'm sort of between atheist and agnostic. I personally don't believe there's a higher power, but my argument to others often comes down to the fact that they CANNOT know and religion is a coping mechanism. Most people don't like to hear that, though so I tend not to bring it up much

 

[Macam]

+1 on the atheist front.

 

[Drexon]

No atheist here. I go with higher power theme. I just been to close death with my illness over years not have experienced some really wild things.. to quote yellow guy, Sorry I just dont share you bleak world views.

This is the jolt this thread needs. Feeling like sharing your experience? I mean, you don't have to describe it from a believers point of view, just describe what happend, without the intent of trying to make anyone a believer if you know what I mean.