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ATI PS3 Is Unrefined
- Thread starter puebla
- Start date
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Doom_Bringer
Banned
DCharlie said:
!
monkeymagic
Banned
MbGCaM said:
And how long ago was the G5 design completed?
The CPU gap is indeed much larger than the GPU gap between the two systems.
Next gen is all about physics and animation for me so even if the games end up looking similar I know where my multiplatform titles will be heading.
Hmm, last June the architecture for X360 was pretty much finalised (we had a leaked diagram that was exactly what we got, minus CPU clock downgrade), and the GPU taped out November last year (CPU - December).MbGCaM said:
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/9004/Burning-Down-the-Xbox-360/
Not sure, I think initial design was finished either late last year or earlier this year, but thats irrelevant, since there have been revisions since then.MbGCaM said:
There is no denying that there is a considerable transistor advantage for CELL vs. XeCPU (as well as, by all accounts, even greater architectural advantages).
Doom_Bringer
Banned
DCharlie said:
Maybe because Sony is still making $$$ with PS2? Maybe they really want to deliver AAA, great looking software? I will enjoy reading the damage control commentary by you when Sony shows the finished hardware at CES. Oh and few devs also have the final PS3 dev kit. Charlie am cry :'(
Every public statement or info I've seen Sony ever make or state about the PS3 release schedule has indicated an early to mid 2006 release for the console.
So to talk about the PS3 not 'being released yet' doesn't make much sense unless there is some public statement I've missed about Sony wanting the PS3 to be already on the shelves.
So to talk about the PS3 not 'being released yet' doesn't make much sense unless there is some public statement I've missed about Sony wanting the PS3 to be already on the shelves.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
i have absolutely no idea what you are going on about here. I'm responding to "the only reason PS3 isn't out is because of Bluray" - i don't see what this has to do with my post.
then our information differs. As far as i know there is still things that are not nailed down yet. I don't expect final hardware announcements at CES. Who has final dev kits then?
Liquid said:
The Madden team has already said that they're waiting until next year to implement physics based animation in their game. What console comes out next year?
The developers of Fight Night already said that the PS3 will be getting a different version than the one being released on the Xbox 360. Hopefully the PS3 version doesn't use the current gen animation system thats currently in place.
pestul said:Okay.. I'm an ATI fanboy and all, but that's just bitter. You can't knock the 7800GTX design.
I don't think he's knocking the 7800 design per se though. He's simply saying that the PS3 is akin to 1980's Detroit parts-bin technology. IOW, the RSX isn't purpose built for the PS3. It's a 7800GTX modified to work with the Cell architecture. Consequently, while it's a brute, it will have to be to keep up with the Xenos design.
This type of propaganda reminds me of the "Sony will sell 200 million consoles in five years" stuff. Eventually, time will tell, but IMO, the truth resides somewhere betwixt the bullshit being slung from both sides.
Of course there is marketing spin in their but I thought it was accepted that sony tried to use only cell chips, even for graphics which didn't work out. This would have been their goal to make the chips themselfs like with the PS2. Now they had to resort to parts from nvidia which is going to eat into their profits. How much of a late start nvidia had due to this I don't know but the fact certainly didn't help them.
I don't know what this talk about the split rendering architecture is with SPEs doing vertex work (what are the vertex shaders for then?) and the RSX exceling in fill rate (from what I hear the 360 outperforms PS3 in fillrate). Was this just marketing fluff reworded or actual inside knowledge?
I don't know what this talk about the split rendering architecture is with SPEs doing vertex work (what are the vertex shaders for then?) and the RSX exceling in fill rate (from what I hear the 360 outperforms PS3 in fillrate). Was this just marketing fluff reworded or actual inside knowledge?
Bluemercury
Member
Deg said:
That's debatable.....
monkeymagic
Banned
Liquid said:
Yes because all multiplatform titles come from EA and Activision :lol
Besides, PS3 will be the lead platform for these companies and it will be easier to downgrade ports for X360 than it would the other way round.
If X360 were the lead platform obviously that wouldn't be the case but luckily it won't be by virtue of Playstation's historical dominance, market presence and consumer mindshare.
SolidSnakex
Member
BigBoss said:The Madden team has already said that they're waiting until next year to implement physics based animation in their game. What console comes out next year?
The developers of Fight Night already said that the PS3 will be getting a different version than the one being released on the Xbox 360. Hopefully the PS3 version doesn't use the current gen animation system thats currently in place.
We also know that the next gen MoH is being built from the ground up on the PS3.
They do make it themselves, with royalties per chip made to nVidia, its not really that bad a deal (vs. MS who subcontract production and pay royalties).elostyle said:
I'm pretty sure this was one of the areas where the RSX definitely schools Xenos quite badly? So uh, one of us is confused here.elostyle said:
My understanding is that the theoretical fill rate is slightly higher on the RSX but the bandwidth is pretty similar. The EDRAM helps the 360 conserving bandwidth with zbuffer etc writes. The fillrate limiting factor on the PS3 thus would be bandwidth.Striek said:
See? Izzy of course spun that in Sony's favor
Striek said:
?
CELL has so many transistors because it contains a lot of six transistor SRAM. Each SPE is made of 21 million transistors: 14 million SRAM and 7 million logic. Then one of the eight SPU's is deactived, so you have 7 left. So that lowers effective number of transistors in CELL's original 234 million transitor count down to 213 million.
For the the 7 active/useable SPU's you have 98 million transistors dedicated to memory storage, and 49 million for logic.
elostyle said:Well, you can read that quote in 2 ways. Either the Cell is so powerful that you can have spare spes for physics and stuff or the RSX is so weak fillrate wise that it leaves the cpu idling
I was specifically referring to the 'EA physics' comment - I wasn't even involved in the fillrate argument. And yet I 'spun'?
mashoutposse
Ante Up
MbGCaM said:
Do you remember first gen XBOX games? Four years later, Halo, PGR, DOA3, Wreckless, and Rallisport still have yet to be blown away by today's software on the same system. Those games turned out to be very accurate representations of the power of the XBOX, and all came within 6 months of launch.
The ease of X360 development suggests that history may repeat itself.
MightyHedgehog
Member
mashoutposse said:
...
mashoutposse said:
1. You act like you've seen "Xbox 360-ish" performance. You know, MS could have taken the concept footage route with the Xbox 360 if they wanted to, but seeing as the console was launching six months later, concept footage wouldn't cut it.
2. You act live you've seen real PS3 graphics performance based on a bunch of concept footage. Real-time or not, concept footage is concept footage.
3. If you're expecting PS3 to have the same level of graphics advantage over the Xbox 360 like the Xbox had over the PS2, you might as well buy a fishing rod and take up a new hobby. You're heading for disappointment. The Xbox launched damn near 20 months after the PS2. The PS2 will launch within six months of the Xbox 360.
mashoutposse said:
those games werent ports and leftovers from other systems. again PGR3 is like the only game that was built just for the 360 and it also shows the bst even though it was rushed. still, i expect the ps3 will be more power, but not by much. a gamecube/xbox difference, to be exact.
:lol :lol
mashoutposse
Ante Up
StoOgE said:
With the exception of maybe Riddick, none of those games blow away their respective predecessors. Are they graphical improvements over the originals? Yes; of course they are. However, none of them are superior to the point where one might not have believed them to be possible back in 2001. Not even close.
There's nothing about the "jump" from, say, Halo to Halo 2 that suggests that a significant amount of horsepower was unlocked in between their releases. The X360 situation will likely be very similar.
Barry Lightning
Banned
Q&A: Richard Huddy European developer relations manager, ATI
We're a bit underpowered
in the short timeframe microsoft afforded us
IE, more forward-thinking
in the amount of time you're giving us (or lack thereof)
..backwards compatability?
we asked for more money
my subconscious betrays me...can you scratch that part?
for what we got paid in the time microsoft afforded us
but, i aint one ta gossip, so you didnt hear it from me...
i'm pulling this part out my ass, but if it's printed in a magazine, it may as well be true
ibm and sony's engineers are known to make blunders such as these
after saturn and xbox, it was the in-thing to do
and rofl! omg! that's exactly what we did with microsoft! only our stock is falling! copycats!
like kick our feet up and yawn
unlike our chip and xbox360 which...is...essentially a PC graphics design bolted on to a processor and...can we scarcth that last part too?
So how about this one: can those E3 PS3 demos be achieved on Xbox 360?
and then there was tgs...and mgs4...and whoops! can we scratch that?
We're a bit underpowered
in the short timeframe microsoft afforded us
IE, more forward-thinking
in the amount of time you're giving us (or lack thereof)
..backwards compatability?
we asked for more money
my subconscious betrays me...can you scratch that part?
for what we got paid in the time microsoft afforded us
but, i aint one ta gossip, so you didnt hear it from me...
i'm pulling this part out my ass, but if it's printed in a magazine, it may as well be true
ibm and sony's engineers are known to make blunders such as these
after saturn and xbox, it was the in-thing to do
and rofl! omg! that's exactly what we did with microsoft! only our stock is falling! copycats!
like kick our feet up and yawn
unlike our chip and xbox360 which...is...essentially a PC graphics design bolted on to a processor and...can we scarcth that last part too?
So how about this one: can those E3 PS3 demos be achieved on Xbox 360?
and then there was tgs...and mgs4...and whoops! can we scratch that?
Heh, ati, tsk, tsk, tsk. He shouldn't speak so boldly especially when several of the initial s/w products are said to be missing even basic easy to implement stuff like AF, from what I've heard.
Ps3 much weaker non-final dev. kits, which were at e3 and the later ones at tgs were capable of displaying gphx that, IMHO, exceed pretty much 90+%, some would argue all, of the s/w that's outhere on any platform announced or out now. That while going at a solid 60fps, so highly detailed that famous dev.s have said it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to dev. full games while keeping such an extraordinarily high lvl of detail(ffvii demo)... 60fps on substantially weaker non-final kits and the lvls of details possible with such, already stressing top dev.s in terms of their ability to create such highly detailed content, hitting the limits of what the largest dev.s with the largest budgets and greatest amounts of sales, can humanly hope to accomplish! :lol
Ps3 much weaker non-final dev. kits, which were at e3 and the later ones at tgs were capable of displaying gphx that, IMHO, exceed pretty much 90+%, some would argue all, of the s/w that's outhere on any platform announced or out now. That while going at a solid 60fps, so highly detailed that famous dev.s have said it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to dev. full games while keeping such an extraordinarily high lvl of detail(ffvii demo)... 60fps on substantially weaker non-final kits and the lvls of details possible with such, already stressing top dev.s in terms of their ability to create such highly detailed content, hitting the limits of what the largest dev.s with the largest budgets and greatest amounts of sales, can humanly hope to accomplish! :lol
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