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[AniHawk]

But seriously, thanks to Culex for doing this the last two months.

[b]Nintendo Gamecube[/b]           |  [b]Total[/b]  |
----------------------------+---------+
SONIC ADVENTURE 2 BATTLE    |1,203,493|
SONIC MEGA COLLECTION       | 973,050 |
SUPER MONKEY BALL 2         | 672,891 |
SUPER MONKEY BALL           | 663,338 |
SONIC ADVENTURE DX          | 591,497 |
SONIC HEROES                | 566,988 |
PHANTASY STAR ONLINE I & II | 190,133 |
BILLY HATCHER               | 168,286 |
SKIES OF ARCADIA LEGENDS    | 149,819 |
NFL 2K3                     | 141,665 |
NBA 2K3                     | 101,333 |
NBA 2K2                     |  82,519 |
HOME RUN KING               |  69,809 |
BEACH SPIKERS               |  66,304 |
PHANTASY STAR ONLINE III    |  50,578 |
SOCCER SLAM                 |  45,038 |
NCAA FOOTBALL 2K3           |  33,880 |
AMAZING ISLAND              |  33,125 |
PHANTASY STAR PLUS          |  28,082 |
SONIC GEMS COLLECTION       |  24,228 |
VIRTUA STRIKER 2002         |  11,111 |
NHL 2K3                     |  10,147 |
SAMURAI JACK                |   9,171 |
NCAA BASKETBALL 2K3         |   5,931 |
PUYO POP FEVER              |   5,610 |
VIRTUA QUEST                |   4,427 |
----------------------------+---------+
[b]Microsoft Xbox[/b]              |  [b]Total[/b]  | 
----------------------------+---------+
NFL 2K3                     | 303,520 |
SONIC MEGA COLLECTION PLUS  | 271,766 |
HOUSE OF THE DEAD III       | 209,771 |
ESPN NFL FOOTBALL           | 204,458 |
SONIC HEROES                | 205,590 |
NBA 2K3                     | 185,850 |
ESPN NBA BASKETBALL         | 154,421 |
WORLD SERIES BASEBALL       | 136,378 |
PANZER DRAGOON ORTA         | 129,197 |
NBA 2K2                     | 119,025 |
NCAA FOOTBALL 2K3           | 114,177 |
CRAZY TAXI 3                | 107,079 |
NFL 2K2                     | 103,309 |
JET SET RADIO FUTURE        | 101,276 |
GUNVALKYRIE                 |  95,632 |
SEGA GT 2002                |  90,414 | 
WORLD SERIES BASEBALL 2K3   |  89,543 |
NCAA BASKETBALL 2K3         |  84,586 |
ESPN MLB BASEBALL           |  75,806 |
NHL 2K3                     |  68,157 |
TOEJAM & EARL III           |  67,878 |
ESPN NHL HOCKEY             |  64,891 |
ESPN COLLEGE HOOPS          |  60,835 |
OTOGI: MYTH OF DEMONS       |  59,950 |
SEGA GT ONLINE              |  47,644 |
SUPER MONKEY BALL DX        |  40,759 |
SOCCER SLAM                 |  31,451 | 
WORMS 3D                    |  30,352 |
OTOGI 2                     |  27,318 |
WORM FORT UNDER SIEGE       |  26,825 |
HEADHUNTER REDEMPTION       |   8,986 |
SPIKEOUT                    |   1,091 |
----------------------------+---------+
[b]Sony Playstation 2[/b]          |  [b]Total[/b]  |
----------------------------+---------+
NFL 2K3                     | 842,494 |
VIRTUA FIGHTER 4            | 623,856 |
SONIC MEGA COLLECTION PLUS  | 497,711 |
NBA 2K2                     | 467,346 |
SONIC HEROES                | 459,432 |
NBA 2K3                     | 406,871 |
NFL 2K2                     | 359,553 |
SHINOBI                     | 287,200 |
VIRTUA FIGHTER 4 EVO        | 258,752 |
ESPN NFL FOOTBALL           | 221,009 |
ESPN NBA BASKETBALL         | 206,140 |
NCAA FOOTBALL 2K3           | 185,185 |
WORLD SERIES BASEBALL2K3    |  95,735 |
NCAA BASKETBALL 2K3         |  94,420 |
TENNIS 2K2                  |  90,326 |
ESPN NHL HOCKEY             |  88,712 |
NHL 2K3                     |  82,600 |
GUNGRAVE                    |  76,293 |
ESPN MLB BASEBALL           |  72,456 |
BASS FISHING DUEL           |  65,652 |
ESPN COLLEGE HOOPS          |  64,946 |
SEGA SUPERSTARS             |  58,407 |
SUPER MONKEY BALL DX        |  53,694 |
TENCHU                      |  53,016 |
SOCCER SLAM                 |  47,074 |
NIGHTSHADE                  |  42,992 |
SHINING TEARS               |  32,029 |
SEGA CLASSICS COLLECTION    |  31,115 |
AERO ELITE: COMBAT          |  28,768 |
ASTRO BOY                   |  26,049 |
WORM FORT UNDER SIEGE       |  22,999 |
REZ                         |  21,075 |
KING OF ROUTE 66            |  21,084 |
SAMURAI JACK                |  20,624 |
FERRARI F355 CHALLENGE      |  20,308 |
VIRTUAL-ON MARZ             |  14,578 |
BLOOD WILL TELL             |  13,878 |
HEADHUNTER REDEMPTION       |   9,436 |
VIRTUA QUEST                |   2,896 |
----------------------------+---------+--------+
[b]Top 10 [All-Formats][/b]        |  [b]Total[/b]  | [b]Format[/b] |
----------------------------+---------+--------+ 
10 NBA 2K2                  | 467,346 |   PS2  |
9 SONIC MEGA COLLECTION +   | 497,711 |   PS2  |
8 SONIC HEROES              | 566,988 |   NGC  |
7 SONIC ADVENTURE DX        | 591,497 |   NGC  |
6 VIRTUA FIGHTER 4          | 623,856 |   PS2  |
5 SUPER MONKEY BALL         | 663,338 |   NGC  |
4 SUPER MONKEY BALL 2       | 672,891 |   NGC  |
3 NFL 2K3                   | 842,494 |   PS2  |
2 SONIC MEGA COLLECTION     | 973,050 |   NGC  |
1 SONIC ADVENTURE 2 BATTLE  |1,203,493|   NGC  |

Not much this month. SA2B broke 1.2m. Sonic Heroes on Xbox broke 200,000. SMB2 sales now > SMB sales.

 

[cvxfreak]

Damn, SMC+ on PS2 outsold Gems Collection... wonder if Gems will pick up.

 

[Nightbreeze]

I have yet to see Gems Collection in a store or rental place. Looks like I'm stuck buying it online.

 

[Culex]

Glad to have you back doing this Anihawk!

This takes a LONG time to add up and hurts your arm, even if it's NOT broken!

 

[AniHawk]

This Month
Games: 97
PS2: 39 | 40.21%
Xbox: 32 | 32.99%
Gamecube: 26 | 26.8%

Amount Sold: 15,289,099
PS2: 6,066,711 | 39.68%
Xbox: 3,317,935 | 21.7%
Gamecube: 5,904,453 | 38.62%

Average: 157,620
Gamecube: 227,094
PS2: 155,557
Xbox: 103,686

Last Month
Games: 96
PS2: 39 | 40.63%
Xbox: 32 | 33.33%
Gamecube: 25 | 26.04%

Amount Sold: 15,075,458
PS2: 5,987,921 | 39.72%
Xbox: 3,279,791 | 21.75%
Gamecube: 5,807,746 | 38.52%

Average: 157,036
Gamecube: 232,309
PS2: 153,536
Xbox: 102,493

Six Months Ago: March 2005
Games: 95
PS2: 39 | 41.05%
Xbox: 31 | 32.63%
Gamecube: 25 | 26.32%

Amount Sold: 14,228,543
PS2: 5,617,636 | 39.48%
Gamecube: 5,506,971 | 38.70%
Xbox: 3,103,936 | 21.82%

Average: 149,774
Gamecube: 220,279
PS2: 144,042
Xbox: 100,127

 

[jgkspsx]

Sonic Gems Collection is a bit of a disappointment. However, it launched at $30 -- Sega's picking up the hardcore before dropping it to Players' Choice in (I predict) early November. It will sell well over the holiday season, especially after it drops below $20.

 

[AniHawk]

Sonic Gems Collection is a bit of a disappointment. However, it launched at $30 -- Sega's picking up the hardcore before dropping it to Players' Choice in (I predict) early November. It will sell well over the holiday season, especially after it drops below $20.

Yeah, it'll be a good holiday seller. A good, cheap option for the Sonic fans (kids) next to Sonic Riders (that's out in NA this year, right?) and Shadow.

 

[Jewbacca]

So is this good or bad? Does this put them in the top 10 developers?

 

[jarrod]

Yeah, it'll be a good holiday seller. A good, cheap option for the Sonic fans (kids) next to Sonic Riders (that's out in NA this year, right?) and Shadow.

Riders is spring 2006 worldwide. Shadow's the big holiday title (in addition to Rush).

 

[Beowvlf]

Games: Xbox: 32 | 32.99%
Sales: Xbox: 3,317,935 | 21.7%

Games: Xbox: 32 | 33.33%
Sales: Xbox: 3,279,791 | 21.75%

Games: Xbox: 31 | 32.63%
Sales: Xbox: 3,103,936 | 21.82%

Stupid Sega... I wonder how different their game lineups would have been this gen if they didn't spend almost the entire first half near exclusive to the Xbox.

 

[AniHawk]

Riders is spring 2006 worldwide. Shadow's the big holiday title (in addition to Rush).

Thanks.

 

[Frankfurter]

Will Shadow be released on all consoles(PS2/XB/GCN)?

Btw. thx Anihawk!

 

[AniHawk]

Will Shadow be released on all consoles(PS2/XB/GCN)?

Yes.

There's also a PSP Sonic that was announced... was it ever confirmed to be Shadow or something else?

 

[Beer Monkey]

Stupid Sega... I wonder how different their game lineups would have been this gen if they didn't spend almost the entire first half near exclusive to the Xbox.

What did they get paid for those exclusives?

 

[callous]

Why won't Virtua Quest come down in price? I want it, but I'll be damned if I pay more than $20 for it.

N.B. Needs to be online and shipped internationally.

 

[Cheebs]

What did they get paid for those exclusives?

Probably less than they would make putting it on GCN and PS2

 

[Flakster99]

Always happy to see a Sega list.

As always, thanks, Anihawk.

 

[jarrod]

What did they get paid for those exclusives?

Nothing. They got fantastic royalty breaks... on games which then bombed. :/

Sega's Xbox performance was the driving force behind Smilebit's non-sports teams being reassigned under Nagoshi and TJ&E Productions being shut down.

 

[Lazy8s]

SEGA reported that they were well compensated for the Xbox arrangement. Those also weren't the games which were cited as detrimental in their financial disclosures.

After going third party, most of SEGA's brands have sold poorly on every system and kept their consumer division losing money, so the likelihood is that those Xbox exclusives would've lost money as well if they had instead been on PS2 or GameCube.

Xbox support was not the driving reason for any reshuffling or culling of SEGA's development studios. Smilebit and Amusement Vision were both among the relatively successful divisions in sales, and both consequently survived that reorganization. Because SEGA's plan for the regrouping and consolidation of the studios was to give the new teams a specific focus, Smilebit and Amusement Vision were reorganized based upon the kind of game development for which their brands were best known respectively. The Smilebit division was utilized for its reputation of successful sports development in management sims, and Amusement Vision was used for its fruitful development of original content. The staff were just reshuffled accordingly. ToeJam & Earl Productions was unfortunately working as a satellite studio to SEGA's most money losing division at the time, Visual Concepts, so the consolidation initiative was least discriminatory there.

 

[dark10x]

Damn, Spikeout only sold ~1000 copies? Kinda glad I picked it up.

 

[LordPhlegm]

SEGA reported that they were well compensated for the Xbox arrangement.

The money hats!

Also, I can imagine Sega sales benefitting through the Gamecube though, considering how few games Gamecube has when compared to the others.

 

[Buffy4ever]

The money hats!

Also, I can imagine Sega sales benefitting through the Gamecube though, considering how few games Gamecube has when compared to the others.

But really would they?? thier are only 6 games on the Nintendo Gamecube that made sold 200,000 copies or above. Also, all those games were either a sonic game or a Monkey Ball game. Billy hatchers, Phantasy star online 1 & 2, and skies of Arcadia legends didn't do too bad, but they made less then less then 200,000 copies on Gamecube, and other games flopped just like many PS2 and X-box games. Actually the PS2 had 11 games that sold a little over 200,000 copies. Alot of game that might not have sold any better on Gamecube then they did on X-box and PS2. I think the thinking "Sega should have thrown it all on Gamecube, it would have sold" is wrong. Sega's Games this Gen just didn't have the appeal for most gamers on any syste, except for Sonic. Sonic sells, and lttle else does for Sega.

 

[jarrod]

SEGA reported that they were well compensated for the Xbox arrangement. Those also weren't the games which were cited as detrimental in their financial disclosures.

Wrong. Smilebit revealed in interviews that no SEGA division was "compensated" directly for their Xbox exclusives. The only SEGA games MGS funded were those they published directly (AM2's Shenmue II and Outrun 2, Sonic Team's PSO EpI&II). MGS did give SEGA a lucrative deal by bundling JSRF/Sega GT with one million Xbox consoles, but that was more of a last ditch effort to salvage their relationship after all SEGA's Xbox games failed to perform at market. And even then, the fiscally responsible studios who brunted the retail failures of those games didn't see a dime.

Xbox support was not the driving reason for any reshuffling or culling of SEGA's development studios. Smilebit and Amusement Vision were both among the relatively successful divisions in sales, and both consequently survived that reorganization. Because SEGA's plan for the regrouping and consolidation of the studios was to give the new teams a specific focus, Smilebit and Amusement Vision were reorganized based upon the kind of game development for which their brands were best known respectively. The Smilebit division was utilized for its reputation of successful sports development in management sims, and Amusement Vision was used for its fruitful development of original content. The staff were just reshuffled accordingly. ToeJam & Earl Productions was unfortunately working as a satellite studio to SEGA's most money losing division at the time, Visual Concepts, so the consolidation initiative was least discriminatory there.

Wrong again. Unsuccessful divisions were regrouped between AV and Smilebit... had Smilebit's Xbox endeavors not failed entirely at market, then those divisions would not have been reassigned under Nagoshi. SEGA's Xbox peformance was directly responsible for that.

TJ&E Productions was shut down directly due to their software performance... which consisted of only an Xbox exclusive. The head of TJ&E Productions pretty much admitted this when the axe fell.

thier are only 6 games on the Nintendo Gamecube that made sold 200,000 copies or above. Also, all those games were either a sonic game or a Monkey Ball game. Billy hatchers, Phantasy star online 1 & 2, and skies of Arcadia legends didn't do too, but they made less then less then 200,000 copies on Gamecube, and other games flopped just like many PS2 and X-box games. Actually the PS2 had 11 games that sold a little over 200,000 copies.

Er, what? Are you comparing US only GC figures (6 games over 200k) to worldwide PS2 figures (11 games over 200k)? Because SOA, PSOI&II and Billy Hatcher all sold over 200k worldwide.

edit~ Ack, I was thinking nonsports releases. Including sports, PS2 does have the most games over 200k. Looking at JP made games though, GC has the most over 200k.

I think the thinking "Sega should have thrown it all on Gamecube, it would have sold" is wrong. Sega's Games this Gen just didn't have the appeal for most gamers on any syste, except for Sonic. Sonic sells, and lttle else does for Sega.

Agreed here. "Platform agnostic" should've meant all games on all platforms. That means Shinobi on Gamecube, VF4 on Xbox and Sonic Adventure on PS2.

 

[Lazy8s]

What was revealed in that Smilebit interview was that SEGA studios don't take their development funding from outside companies, not that their projects don't generate compensation for exclusivity. The Microsoft deal that SEGA made gave the publisher multi-million dollar funding for TV ad campaigns among other benefits. The Jet Set Radio Future/Sega GT pack-in deal was further compensation as a result of the two company's close relationship, a relationship that was in negotiation a few times to actually be a lot closer than what resulted.

SEGA logically wouldn't allow outside companies to manage their development houses by funding game production; that would be intrusive into SEGA's operation and hard to manage logistically.

The accounting done for a game project does include marketing and licensing fees, so Microsoft compensation was factored into the studios' bottom line.

Smilebit had been relatively successful by supporting their generalized development with their staple sports simulations. Each sub-team within the studio didn't have their own balance sheet as development decisions were made on the balance of all game projects. Under the reorganzation which gave the studios specific game demographics to target, the sub-teams between Smilebit and Amusement Vision were simply placed accordingly.

SEGA's need to restructure and not some divisional performance standard is what triggered the evaluation of studios like ToeJam and Earl Productions, as even the few who were actually producing profitable development like Sega Rosso with their Initial D games were closed to follow the plan outline.

 

[jarrod]

What was revealed in that Smilebit interview was that SEGA studios don't take their development funding from outside companies, not that their projects don't generate compensation for exclusivity. The Microsoft deal that SEGA made gave the publisher multi-million dollar funding for TV ad campaigns among other benefits. The Jet Set Radio Future/Sega GT pack-in deal was further compensation as a result of the two company's close relationship, a relationship that was in negotiation a few times to actually be a lot closer than what resulted.

True, there were other "incentives" involved (mainly advertising and promotion) but the "real" percieved value from SEGA's viewpoint came in the form of royalty breaks. Unfortunately, when their Xbox titles failed to perform as expected, that value evaporated... which is why MS offered the bundle deal to try and salvage SEGA's support.

SEGA logically wouldn't allow outside companies to manage their development houses by funding game production; that would be intrusive into SEGA's operation and hard to manage logistically.

SEGA's done it repeatedly. Shenmue II Xbox, PSO Xbox, F-Zero AX, Finnie the Fish, etc...

The accounting done for a game project does include marketing and licensing fees, so Microsoft compensation was factored into the studios' bottom line.

Not for foreign release... and JP advertsing wasn't included iirc. Essentially, the deal was made by SEGA managment before the stuios were made fiscally responsible... then the studios were forced to follow contracts with no direct financial aid and brunt the failures of that software at retail.

Smilebit had been relatively successful by supporting their generalized development with their staple sports simulations. Each sub-team within the studio didn't have their own balance sheet as development decisions were made on the balance of all game projects. Under the reorganzation which gave the studios specific game demographics to target, the sub-teams between Smilebit and Amusement Vision were simply placed accordingly.

Not at all, the bottom line is with Smilebit and AV weak performing sectors were reassigned. That's why the JSRF/Orta team was no longer called "Smilebit". They were now "Amusement Vision", who'd stuck huge commercial succes with their Gamecube centric Super Monkey Ball brand.

Likewise, AV's Virtua Sports team was shifted to Smilebit, who's Shutoku games were big sellers across Dreamcast, PC, GBA and PS2 (while VS flondered after moving to GC and stagnating in arcades). Yes there was some level of strategic demographic focus, but only because the weak sectors coincidentally worked out in such a way. Pretty clear given SEGA overall didn't shift based on demographics.

SEGA's need to restructure and not some divisional performance standard is what triggered the evaluation of studios like ToeJam and Earl Productions,

Nice PR. Here's what Greg Johnson (co-founder of TJ&E Productions) said...

Sorry to say there are no further plans for TJ&E games. Our plan was to go directly on to other ports of the game after the Xbox version, and then on to sequels, but sales on the Xbox version were not so great and Sega pulled the plug on all further TJ&E development. We do have the rights to the IP and could conceivably do more in the future if we found someone interested in funding the development, but the team that built TJ&E3 was forced to disband.

...SEGA's Xbox failures had a direct impact on it's studios. All who heavily supported the platform suffered as a result, this really isn't open to interpretation. It's hard reality.

as even the few who were actually producing profitable development like Sega Rosso with their Initial D games were closed to follow the plan outline.

Not really, as Sega Rosso management were promoted up to higher positions within Hitmaker (the division they originally broke off from anyway)... there the move was actually more similar to the merger between Overworks and WOW in terms of staff reassignment. The same can't be said of Smilbit's Xbox teams, AV's Virtua Sports team or UGA, all of whom were reassigned into subordinate positions under Amusment Vision, Smilebit or Sonic Team. Mianly because they all failed to produce any commerically viable software.

 

[LordPhlegm]

But really would they?? thier are only 6 games on the Nintendo Gamecube that made sold 200,000 copies or above. Also, all those games were either a sonic game or a Monkey Ball game. Billy hatchers, Phantasy star online 1 & 2, and skies of Arcadia legends didn't do too bad, but they made less then less then 200,000 copies on Gamecube, and other games flopped just like many PS2 and X-box games. Actually the PS2 had 11 games that sold a little over 200,000 copies. Alot of game that might not have sold any better on Gamecube then they did on X-box and PS2. I think the thinking "Sega should have thrown it all on Gamecube, it would have sold" is wrong. Sega's Games this Gen just didn't have the appeal for most gamers on any syste, except for Sonic. Sonic sells, and lttle else does for Sega.

For ports and basically no solid online plan, I'd say Phantasy Star Online I & II did well. As did Skies of Arcadia. Billy Hatcher, a no-name game that looked riduclously silly (although fun, in my opinion), did decently as well.

Let's look at the remaining Sega Gamecube games. Sports, sports, Amazing Island, a cruddy version of Puyo Pop, sports, a card game with a gimped online support, Samurai Jack, and Virtua Quest. I'm not even gonna comment on these.

Now, truly, we can never know if Sega games such as PDO, JSRF, and Gunvalkyrie would've sold better on Gamecube, because speculation is a two-faced hore. Regardless, I believe sales would've been better for Gamecube considering their library and their fans who soak up exclusives.

 

[MrDaravon]

I've got 1,000 more on Shining Tears than you do:

March 2005 12,310
April 2005 8,465
May 2005 4,698
June 2005 3,817
July 2005 2,157
August 2005 1,582
LTD 33,029


Also, do you have a monthly breakdown of PSO 3? I used one of your numbers from an old Sega sales thread last year as a base and have kept track since then, and I have a VASTLY different number than you (like 7,000 or so less than yours), and I swear I've double checked it twice now.

 

[Lazy8s]

While the funding for the games which SEGA developed for outside publishers came from the money involved in those deals, SEGA handled the management in-house. They directly supplied their studios with the money and resources after coming to an initial agreement with the outside publisher on production, budget, and timeframe so that the studios wouldn't have to be dependent on an outside source. Progress checks and two-way communication on development issues with the publisher were occasional, but SEGA basically just delivered the finished product when they were done, self-supervised.

The studios had to do accounting for the worldwide business that their games did and so benefitted from any compensation in the other territories too; adapting their game development to the worldwide market was actually one of the main reasons they were made fiscally responsible by the spin-off back in mid-2000 -- long before any Xbox arrangement. The investment for most games was heavily dependent on the return from multiple markets, and some of the designers, like Tetsuya Mizuguchi, even designed games like Rez while primarily counting on sales from Europe, an overseas region, to make their balance sheet.

Development houses like ToeJam and Earl Productions coming under fire was a direct result of SEGA's restructuring initiative that came with the company's new management change. The studios would've been getting folded periodically through the years instead if such drastic measures were the direct result of poor sales from a game release. The balance sheet of the studio producing TJ&E's development, Visual Concepts, didn't leave satellite studios room to struggle at all in sales as Visual Concept's failure with the multiplatform 2K3 and 2K4 sports lines were cited for decreasing SEGA's expected profits by over 90% for the year. Greg Johnson's comments show that his team suffered as the result of a change in SEGA which cancelled plans that originally had already called for further ToeJam and Earl development.

 

[jarrod]

While the funding for the games which SEGA developed for outside publishers came from the money involved in those deals, SEGA handled the management in-house. They directly supplied their studios with the money and resources after coming to an initial agreement with the outside publisher on production, budget, and timeframe so that the studios wouldn't have to be dependent on an outside source. Progress checks and two-way communication on development issues with the publisher were occasional, but SEGA basically just delivered the finished product when they were done, self-supervised.

Only with Microsoft. Nintendo, Bandai and SCEI were intimately involved in the planning and design of their SEGA developed software.

The studios had to do accounting for the worldwide business that their games did and so benefitted from any compensation in the other territories too; adapting their game development to the worldwide market was actually one of the main reasons they were made fiscally responsible by the spin-off back in mid-2000 -- long before any Xbox arrangement. The investment for most games was heavily dependent on the return from multiple markets, and some of the designers, like Tetsuya Mizuguchi, even designed games like Rez while primarily counting on sales from Europe, an overseas region, to make their balance sheet.

Regardless... royalty breaks and free ads don't amount to much when your game still fails to perform at market.

Development houses like ToeJam and Earl Productions coming under fire was a direct result of SEGA's restructuring initiative that came with the company's new management change. The studios would've been getting folded periodically through the years instead if such drastic measures were the direct result of poor sales from a game release. The balance sheet of the studio producing TJ&E's development, Visual Concepts, didn't leave satellite studios room to struggle at all in sales as Visual Concept's failure with the multiplatform 2K3 and 2K4 sports lines were cited for decreasing SEGA's expected profits by over 90% for the year. Greg Johnson's comments show that his team suffered as the result of a change in SEGA which cancelled plans that originally had already called for further ToeJam and Earl development.

Funny then that TJ&E Productions (which wasn't a VC satellite btw) was killed while Kush Games (which was a VC subsidairy) went on making games. Also, TJ&E Productions was closed 6 months before the company wide restructing with Sammy... I dunno Lazy, even when the fucking founder of TJ&E clearly admits his company was shut down thanks to their poor Xbox sales, you just can't seem to accept that? Why continually trying to explain around it? I thought you were a Sega fan, not an Xbot?

 

[Rlan]

Wasn't TJ&E Productions basically just two guys in a room over at Visual Concept Studios?

 

[jarrod]

Wasn't TJ&E Productions basically just two guys in a room over at Visual Concept Studios?

Nope, it was a small team located in the same building. VC oversaw R&D in a management position (like they did for all SOA made projects) but TJ&E Productions was entirely seperate. Unlike Kush Games, who was actually a VC subsidiary and shared some staff iirc.

 

[Rlan]

Ah, I was under the impression that TJ&E productions basically was two fellas who directed a team of VC people. What the hell we're they doing for the 10 years between games [other than that kids point and click adventure]?

 

[jarrod]

Ah, I was under the impression that TJ&E productions basically was two fellas who directed a team of VC people. What the hell we're they doing for the 10 years between games [other than that kids point and click adventure]?

Disbanded before Saturn, refoirmed after Dreamcast pretty much.

 

[Lazy8s]

While SEGA teams have worked closely in a design/creative capacity with outside publishers for development, they are still managed by SEGA so that they don't operate like typical independent developers who receive direct funding from the external publisher upon reaching production milestones. They simply work under their typical SEGA management structure yet collaboratively with the outside party.

The millions of dollars that Microsoft saved SEGA from having to spend on marketing and royalties for the exclusives is the same as a direct pay-off in the bottom line.

The management change at SEGA during the Sammy integration lead to restructuring of operations throughout the first half of 2004 and the consolidation of the studios in July 2004, with resulting news of ToeJam and Earl Productions' closure following in August. With the tightening of SEGA's belt squeezing Visual Concepts, only developers under their production that were working on the primary focus of sports, like Kush, had a fair chance to be kept around.

 

[jarrod]

While SEGA teams have worked closely in a design/creative capacity with outside publishers for development, they are still managed by SEGA so that they don't operate like typical independent developers who receive direct funding from the external publisher upon reaching production milestones. They simply work under their typical SEGA management structure yet collaboratively with the outside party.

Nope. For F-Zero, AV was reporting directly to Nintendo (EAD) for milestones.

The millions of dollars that Microsoft saved SEGA from having to spend on marketing and royalties for the exclusives is the same as a direct pay-off in the bottom line.

Not really, as SEGA likely wouldn't have budgeted the same resources to advertising. Again, millions spent in ads don't account for much when your game isn't selling and you have to eat those costs incurred to make it.

The management change at SEGA during the Sammy integration lead to restructuring of operations throughout the first half of 2004 and the consolidation of the studios in July 2004, with resulting news of ToeJam and Earl Productions' closure following in August. With the tightening of SEGA's belt squeezing Visual Concepts, only developers under their production that were working on the primary focus of sports, like Kush, had a fair chance to be kept around.

TJ&E Productions closed in the early spring of 2004, with official news finally leaking out in May. TJ&E Productions was closed due to their own performance (on Xbox), it had nothing to do with Visual Concepts.

 

[D-X]

Riders is spring 2006 worldwide. Shadow's the big holiday title (in addition to Rush).

The end of the Riders moves states a Winter 2006 release. Probably to compensate for those budget gamers who don't have an X360 or PS3 to play next gen Sonic.

 

[Lazy8s]

Collaborative development under the supervision of an outside party for production milestones is not at all like being managed by them under their direct funding and operation. SEGA has partnered to have their studios work with outside publishers but does not have them get hired off to work for such groups. The studios have never had a complete operational structure for management, payment, human resources, insurance, etc. that was independent of SEGA to even be able to work outside of their parent like that. Their independence was largely a paper construct to facilitate their individual accounting.

After Sammy got its 22.4% stake in SEGA in December 2003 and held special voter/shareholder meetings to start seating its group of managers, SEGA restructuring was then ongoing throughout early 2004 and on, leading into some of Visual Concepts' relations with Take-Two and the decisions on ToeJam and Earl Productions and the Japanese studios.