Support NeoGAF

[kpopSuperstar]

I can't for the life of me get into this game. I love Banjo-Kazooie with a passion, and have tried to play Tooie several times throughout the years, but every area is so massive that it takes too long to traverse spaces. It's like the game wanted to be "bigger & better" so they overdid everything.

Imagine playing Elden Ring, and each area was 4 times as big with no additional enemies. That's how Banjo-Tooie feels compared to Kazooie.

Anyone else feel like this? because the reviews are great and I don't get it.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Felt just the same. Love the first one but the second is just too much of everything, like they threw all the shit they could imagine into the game and some of it sticks while some other stuff doesn't.

 

[Codes 208]

Now imagine if yooka laylee was more kazooie and less tooie

 

[Paltheos]

Same. I don't think it's an uncommon position really, and I think Rare was too much of a darling for the time for the game to get the criticism it deserved. It's a big step down from the tight design of Kazooie.

 

[Eevee86]

Played it when it came out on switch. Absolute dumpster fire of a game.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Yep, it's too much of a good thing.
The scope and level design is through the roof for its time. But it's exhausting.

 

[Diddy X]

Correct, maybe it wasn't the right path to follow, still a great game.

 

[Tg89]

Kazooie is the tightest, most focused collectathon Rare ever made. Probably their second best game behind DKC2.

Incredible pacing
A strong and varied moveset where everything was used regularly
Well designed levels that were big enough without being overwhelming
Just the right amount of collecting/exploration/backtracking
The best hub world in gaming period
GOATed soundtrack
The best Rare writing from a humour perspective

etc.


Tooie basically turned the dial to 11 on the size/scope/moveset/things to collect and it suffered for it. Still a fantastic game, but it's bloated and unfocused a lot of the time.

 

[MrRibeye]

Sometimes I sing Mumbo Jumbo's summoning chant in the shower, ugga bugga ugga bugga

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I never did play Tooie, but I have heard your same complaint from other.

I never played Tooie because I was prime age for Banjo-Kazooie when it came out. Got it, was excited about it, and had lots of fun, so I showed it to my older brother and cousin, and they baby-shamed me about it.

It took years of therapy and cutting all contact with my immediate and extended family to get over this singular trauma, so maybe I'll check out Tooie on emulator here soon.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

The game strayed too deep into being an all out collectathon and wasn't interesting enough. Donkey Kong went even further after that.

 

[fersnake]

if tooie is weird what about nuts and boltz?

 

[PauloRoberto]

Sometimes I sing Mumbo Jumbo's summoning chant in the shower, ugga bugga ugga bugga

With all due respect, i could bet that you could end your shower BEFORE mumbo jumbo finishes his 'ugga bugga'!

And probably that's why the game is a let down in the end... they simply did not find any 'time to stop'...

 

[Heart_Attack]

BK1 is in my top 5 games of all time. I despise Tooie. Even DK64 was better.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Kazooie is the tightest, most focused collectathon Rare ever made. Probably their second best game behind DKC2.

Word.
It's a masterclass in level design. Even the biggest levels are still somewhat tight, and every nook and cranny has been used to make everything feel bigger. Clanker's Cavern is an amazing example of design.

 

[Trilobit]

I really crave images when people talk about games so here're some screenshots:
Banjo-Kazooie:

Banjo-Tooie:

 

[Connificent]

We gettin Banjo Threeie in a couple of weeks tho

 

[Diddy X]

I really crave images when people talk about games so here're some screenshots:
Banjo-Kazooie:

Banjo-Tooie:

Wow those head breaking puzzles you had to guess the solution plus I didn't speak english by the time I played it, I got stuck like 6 months not knowing you had to use the train to enter Gruntilda's industries.

 

[Pimpollo818]

u

I can't for the life of me get into this game. I love Banjo-Kazooie with a passion, and have tried to play Tooie several times throughout the years, but every area is so massive that it takes too long to traverse spaces. It's like the game wanted to be "bigger & better" so they overdid everything.

Imagine playing Elden Ring, and each area was 4 times as big with no additional enemies. That's how Banjo-Tooie feels compared to Kazooie.

Anyone else feel like this? because the reviews are great and I don't get it.

I usually feel like "this is too big!" when it comes to Elden Ring. I know ER2 will happen, but what I really crave is entirely hand-crafted playspaces like Lordran/Yarnham with no boring traversal in between.

 

[Nonehxc]

I can't for the life of me get into this game. I love Banjo-Kazooie with a passion, and have tried to play Tooie several times throughout the years, but every area is so massive that it takes too long to traverse spaces. It's like the game wanted to be "bigger & better" so they overdid everything.

Imagine playing Elden Ring, and each area was 4 times as big with no additional enemies. That's how Banjo-Tooie feels compared to Kazooie.

Anyone else feel like this? because the reviews are great and I don't get it.

Couldn't agree more.

Banjo-Kazooie was the perfect spot in just about everything. Same happens to me with a few games, Doom 2016 sequels being on top of my mind right now. Stop making good shit bigger, I wanna shoot demons in the face, period, not juggle 27 different mechanics

 

[Physiognomonics]

yes tooie is really bad. never could play that game. kazooie was so perfect!

 

[tkscz]

I still enjoyed Tooie but I agree it's too big.

I still remember getting stuck for two weeks because I forgot about the train that works like a type of fast travel. You need to use it to get to a level as you unlock the level's train entrance rather than accessing it like every other level.

It's not a bad game, far from it, it's just trying to do too much.

 

[deriks]

I felt the same

When I was a kid, I didn't really got it. I didn't hated it, but didn't really liked. When it was released on the 360 I replayed and the key turned: game is just bigger, but doesn't add for real

I mean, you literally have the abilities that the first one has and got more, but the game just gets bigger and kinda boring. A big empty shell

Nuts and Bolts is even worse

 

[calistan]

Same thing with Donkey Kong 64, it's just massively bloated with filler.

I think with Banjo-Kazooie they looked at Mario 64 and said let's do that but way, way bigger. Then they lost all self-control and made the following games bigger still. Two characters isn't enough, let's have four - no, eight! And let's stick googly eyes on everything, and have 3,000 collectibles, and giant levels you have to backtrack through multiple times!

Rare were technical wizards but they sometimes fumbled on gameplay when they were 'inspired by' Nintendo's designs.

 

[touchfuzzy]

Banjo-Kazooie is a GOAT. I replayed it recently on Switch and it holds up, which many games from that era were impressive for the time have a lot of warts. It and Star Fox 64 are the two best N64 games.

You can really see Rare's output was starting to trend downwards toward the end of N64 (despite the continued critical acclaim they got by default)/

 

[keefged4]

BK is goat. Tooie is just as good imo. I've played both just as much as each other.

 

[Saber]

While I was playing I keep asking myself...what they were doing with this game?
Like, its completelly different from the first one. And the last boss is AWFULL. Never touch Tooie ever again, it was clearly not made by the same people.

 

[nkarafo]

Banjo-Kazooie was already a bit more than it had to be. But overall a great amount of stuff do do and see without being too overwhelming (only a tiny bit).

DK64 went too far. Overwhelming and tiresome.

Banjo-Tooie sits in between these two games. Not as overboard as DK64 but still too much. Banjo-Kazooie should be the maximum acceptable "stuff to do and see" platform game.

 

[Tg89]

I remember Blockbuster having a VHS about BK that you could rent for free, making my mom rent it for me multiple times before I actually got the game for Christmas. Honestly probably just my favourite N64 game, incredible vibes. GOATed boxart too.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Nuts and Bolts is even worse

No way. It is much better than Tooie. You get out of it what you put in.

 

[Magic Carpet]

The only game I've played in this series was Yooka Laylee. I didn't like it very much. So I assume the Banjo games are similar?

 

[crumbs]

The only game I've played in this series was Yooka Laylee. I didn't like it very much. So I assume the Banjo games are similar?

Broadly speaking, yes. All three games are 3D platformers that focus on exploration and collectables.

I think Yooka-Laylee suffered a lot of the same issues as Tooie: huge worlds that aren't rewarding to explore. They feel like busy work.

The original BK was a much tighter experience. I played the Rare Replay version a couple of years ago and I found it holds up, still a lot of fun. The soundtrack is great.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

I really crave images when people talk about games so here're some screenshots:
Banjo-Kazooie:

Banjo-Tooie:

Those screenshots don't do it justice, but really nothing does without a proper crt

 

[Redeeming Casualty]

I've been playing it recently on NSO. So I have some thoughts. When I was younger playing this on my N64. I remember enjoying the game but never beat it and felt very confused on where to go in the game. As I have gotten older and started to enjoy more adventure and open world games. Coming back to Tooie was a really interesting experience. I can agree that the pacing can feel off and I still have a lot of that where am suppose to go and do thought when playing. But I really love that honestly. Its such an art to get lost and have me get curious to go scope out areas in the world I haven't visited. Its been real perfect writing notes down in my game journal and putting the pieces together to find the jigsaw pieces. I love how much more self aware this game is also in the story and characters. The level design also opened up when you separate Banjo and Kazooie. The open design is great and reminds of why I love Pikmin 4 open start anywhere and go environment. It's a liberating change from Kazooie quick small level design.

That said the game still has problems of objectives. I think having jiggles to collect by completing tasks in one area and then back track to another area to complete is cool, but I do think they leaned to heavily into that and I feel can drag the pacing. I wish this was more focused or less of because I really do like this idea how if you do something in one world it can change something in the other world to help solve problems and earn jigsaw pieces. If you play on original hardware as impressive as the wide screen was for the time. The frame rate is awful. And this is coming from someone who loves playing Ocarnia and Majors Mask on the 64 hardware and doesn't feel the frame rate is that bad in those games. I also think the mini games are cool, I do think there could have been less of them though. Other than that. I think Banjo Tooie is pretty good.

 

[Plies]

Just wait until you play kanjobazooie

 

[Plies]

How can something be "too big" ?

Lol, you Tooie haters are so wild.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Banjo kazooie was a banger, the bee area, the spooky area, using eggs to your advantage, the big reward boss fight.

 

[powder]

I tried the first game recently and found it totally unplayable.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Always thought it was crazy that the game has such a high % of the Jiggies to complete it.

 

[DreamcastSkies]

In quite a few ways I prefer Tooie and I played Kazooie at launch and Tooie like 25 years later so my experience with Tooie isn't soaked in nostalgia. I prefer Tooie's hubworld. I love how the levels have connections to each other. I think the game can be oddly mean-spirited or cynical but I do like the darker atmosphere. I think some of Tooie's worlds are a bit too large. I found the dinosaur level difficult to navigate. I prefer the themes for Kazooie's worlds. I think Kazooie also has Tooie beat on the feeling of mystery with it's Ice Key and question mark eggs. That added sort of a mystic aura to Kazooie. Something was going on but it was hard to say what.

 

[Cramoss]

I've finished BK many times but never BT. I always get frustrated with something in that game.

One day though, one day..

 

[Physiognomonics]

The only game I've played in this series was Yooka Laylee. I didn't like it very much. So I assume the Banjo games are similar?

kazooie is much better than yooka. not even a contest

music is sublime too and adds a lot to the game overall quality and replayability. Wise was at its peak just after the dk games

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

How can something be "too big" ?

Lol, you Tooie haters are so wild.

It's a Nintendo 64 game that requires around 30-35 hours to 100% the first time, and pretty close to that anyway just to beat it, because (see next quote)

Always thought it was crazy that the game has such a high % of the Jiggies to complete it.

That was the worst thing about Rare's N64 collectathons. Hide a secret ending behind 100%, sure, but why simply lock the regular ending behind literally 90+% completion? I never finished Jet Force Gemini on Rare Replay because I simply couldn't beat a certain mini- game that would have been optional in any other game, but no, it's absolutely required. Same with the original DK in DK64. I mean, that one is not that hard, but it's still shitty that you're forced to beat it just to get to the final boss of a game that has enough content for two or three games of its time already.

 

[Neff]

Love 1, hate 2

 

[MagnesD3]

Banjo Tooie is great but it has a couple issues that trip it up from being a masterpiece like BK. The main one is there is no map when its desperately needed due to its size.

Another being it needed a logbook to keep up with secret signs and longer multistep jiggies progression so it would be easier for people to remember what they had to do or help them figure out what the next part of solving a "quest" might be.

Other than that all I would really want is for Cauldron Keep to have been a full completed level since there isnt 100 jiggies and that level feels like it was meant to be fully realized (cloud cuckuland is a bit of a weird one to end on).

There also should have been a few more jiggies regulated to requiring use of some of the lesser used split up abilities.

 

[Georges Chiellins]

if tooie is weird what about nuts and boltz?

Amazing game.
Only one I actually beat, out of the three.

 

[Majukun]

is an example of too much of a good thing...too many different object, levels that were too big