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[Adaren]

If you've ever spent any time looking in to how the combo point system works, then you probably know that normal punch and kick attacks have a diminishing return on them. If you land more than 6 punches/kicks in a row, the point value of each hit will steadily decrease (to a minimum of 1). The way to reset them back to full point value is to hit an enemy with a Wicked Weave.

If you've done a little more digging into the point system, then you might also know that Durga charge attacks and Kilgore rockets use the "Wicked Weave" point scoring icon. As might be expected, hitting an enemy with either Durga charge attacks or Kilgore rockets will reset the diminishing returns on your punches and kicks in the same way that a normal Wicked Weave would.

However, there are also several other moves that will reset the diminishing returns on your punches and kicks if they hit an enemy:
- Panther Within claw attack (hit punch or kick while in Panther Form)
- Hitting an enemy into another enemy (yes, this shows up on the combo point counter)
- When using the (Normal mode weapon unlock)

Spoiler

Handguns

, any move that would normally produce a Wicked Weave
- Attacks from the charged form of (NSIC mode weapon unlock)

Spoiler

Pillow Talk

- A non-Wicked Weave hit from Tetsuzanko
- A non-Wicked Weave hit from Heel Stomp
- The midair spin+kick attack from Scarborough Faire or the shotguns (the actual kick has to hit)
- A perfect parry counterattack (via the Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa)

I didn't know about the last four of those until today. It's amazing how there's always more to learn in this game.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Man I am so glad we've moved away from arena style stylish action level design. Feels a bit rough here even though the combat itself is great.

Moved away from this to replace with what, exactly? Because in the 7 years since Bayo 1, Bayo 2 is the only action game of this caliber, and that's a similarly designed stylish melee arena combat game.

 

[grandwizard]

I love the Onyx Roses shotguns so much. It's probably my favorite weapon when it comes to extending a punch or kick just because of the 'punchiness' of a shotgun blast that comes out. I missed them from Bayo 2, there is a similar weapon tied to a charachter but it comes with a big downside.

 

[NeoRaider]

 

[decisions]

Yes! Super happy to hear this. I get sognificant frame drops even on lowest settings and I was worried a patch wasn't coming. Glad the game sold pretty well.

Thanks SEGA.

 

[Fitz]

Just finished playing through the story last night, don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, just this game is awesome and I wish I'd been able to play it before now. Loved everything about it really, the campy story that mostly didn't take itself seriously, sublime gameplay, brilliant music.

Also the The Return of the King length ending was great, super pleased about the Play History as well, probably wouldn't have wanted to replay much without being able to easily check my scores.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I wonder if they're gonna fix the AA issues.

 

[nailbombxx]

If you've ever spent any time looking in to how the combo point system works, then you probably know that normal punch and kick attacks have a diminishing return on them. If you land more than 6 punches/kicks in a row, the point value of each hit will steadily decrease (to a minimum of 1). The way to reset them back to full point value is to hit an enemy with a Wicked Weave.

If you've done a little more digging into the point system, then you might also know that Durga charge attacks and Kilgore rockets use the "Wicked Weave" point scoring icon. As might be expected, hitting an enemy with either Durga charge attacks or Kilgore rockets will reset the diminishing returns on your punches and kicks in the same way that a normal Wicked Weave would.

However, there are also several other moves that will reset the diminishing returns on your punches and kicks if they hit an enemy:
- Panther Within claw attack (hit punch or kick while in Panther Form)
- Hitting an enemy into another enemy (yes, this shows up on the combo point counter)
- When using the (Normal mode weapon unlock)

Spoiler

Handguns

, any move that would normally produce a Wicked Weave
- Attacks from the charged form of (NSIC mode weapon unlock)

Spoiler

Pillow Talk

- A non-Wicked Weave hit from Tetsuzanko
- A non-Wicked Weave hit from Heel Stomp
- The midair spin+kick attack from Scarborough Faire or the shotguns (the actual kick has to hit)
- A perfect parry counterattack (via the Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa)

I didn't know about the last four of those until today. It's amazing how there's always more to learn in this game.

Great post, thanks. Very informative.

I am also very impressed by the amount of depth in Bayonetta. I've played the game for 200+ hours on and off since its release and I keep finding stuff that I've never seen before.

 

[pa22word]

He ain't kidding about that SSD user quip. I swear the window for scoring a training load screen is tighter than a third strike parry sometimes v.v

 

[Mr_Zombie]

I'm not the only one who thinks the

Spoiler

motorcycle

segment is abysmal, right?

I fell through the floor just driving around multiple times.

It can be kind of glitchy. And yes, it is abysmal. The worst thing is, there's another segment in the game that is similarly bad (although at least not so glitchy).

I don't mind interjecting the standard gameplay with something new and unique, just for fun, but both

Spoiler

motorcycle

and

Spoiler

rocket

segments were just too long and shockingly boring. I dread replaying those chapters :/

 

[CadetMahoney]

The window for scoring a training load screen is tighter than a third strike parry sometimes.

One thing I hope they don't change tbh. Just quirky like that.

 

[Adaren]

I'm not the only one who thinks the

Spoiler

motorcycle

segment is abysmal, right?

I fell through the floor just driving around multiple times.

The "trick" to not falling through the floor is to not speed up at all. Just keep going at normal speed without hitting forward on the stick; you'll still get Platinum time.

Which doesn't really excuse the segment at all...but hopefully it'll at least be a little less terrible next time you replay it!

 

[Jinserver]

Been playing this a lot, and even though I've spent 200+ hours on 360/Wii U versions...STILL having a blast again on PC. @4K 60fps locked at that! Game is gorgeous and plays even better.

Really, really hope Vanquish finds a home on Steam. @60fps that game would be mindblowing, pure score attacking and pure epic style/substance. IMO, the best TPS of that generation (from a gameplay depth/fun standpoint), from Mikami again ironically.

Also, wouldn't mind seeing Shadows of the Damned come to PC considering sales, another Mikami/Suda51 underated gem imo.

 

[5olid_5nake]

Do you guys have this feeling that the music and sound in general is of poor quality? Like they used sounds and music of lower bit rate?

Or maybe that's just me.

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

Do you guys have this feeling that the music and sound in general is of poor quality? Like they used sounds and music of lower bit rate?

Or maybe that's just me.

Coming from Nier, audio quality is indeed way more underwhelming to me too.

 

[magnetic]

I usually just play with the music off because I rely on audio cues so much.

Same with Monster Hunter. I need to hear what´s going on around me, which means I´m missing out on potentially awesome music, but on the other hand, the sound effects in Bayo are very satisfying and juicy!

Happy that this game has a 2nd chance. It deserves everything and more.

Yeah, such a cult hit having a second chance to shine is really nice to see. Being able to use the reputation it built over 7 years probably really helped. I also have this gut feeling that people might be more ready for a game like Bayo at this point in time, with other mechanically deep games like Monster Hunter and the Souls series having grown their fanbases.

 

[leng jai]

Been playing this a lot, and even though I've spent 200+ hours on 360/Wii U versions...STILL having a blast again on PC. @4K 60fps locked at that! Game is gorgeous and plays even better.

Really, really hope Vanquish finds a home on Steam. @60fps that game would be mindblowing, pure score attacking and pure epic style/substance. IMO, the best TPS of that generation (from a gameplay depth/fun standpoint), from Mikami again ironically.

Also, wouldn't mind seeing Shadows of the Damned come to PC considering sales, another Mikami/Suda51 underated gem imo.

Vanquish is such an obvious port. The game had dreadful IQ on consoles and was only 30fps.

 

[A-V-B]

Vanquish is such an obvious port. The game had dreadful IQ on consoles and was only 30fps.

Know what would really suck?

"PC Vanquish port announced! Game logic tied at 30fps"

 

[sixteen-bit]

Know what would really suck?

"PC Vanquish port announced! Game logic tied at 30fps"

Jet Set Radio all over again

 

[Bl@de]

Know what would really suck?

"PC Vanquish port announced! Game logic tied at 30fps"

Very possible. It's a Mikami game. Lots of his games were locked to 30 and tied to game logic (classic Resident Evil on PC) (some of them were fixed via INI etc.).

 

[GurgleBot20]

Very possible. It's a Mikami game. Lots of his games were locked to 30 and tied to game logic (classic Resident Evil on PC) (some of them were fixed via INI etc.).

Resident Evil remake and Resident Evil 4 can run at 60fps on PC via in game options.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Resident Evil remake and Resident Evil 4 can run at 60fps on PC via in game options.

Don't remember if REmakebhad any issues, but RE4 required some serious work from QLOC to make it run in 60fps since, you guessed it, a lot of in-game logic were tied to the framerate (projectiles getting stuck in air, chickens laying eggs like crazy, wonky enemies' AI etc.). Even the final version (after few patches) has to work in stable 60fps if you choose the mode, otherwise the game runs in slow-mo until it can achieve stable 60fps again.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Do you guys have this feeling that the music and sound in general is of poor quality? Like they used sounds and music of lower bit rate?

Or maybe that's just me.

It's like that in both games. I hate it.

 

[sixteen-bit]

It's like that in both games. I hate it.

I wonder if Sega can fix this if we complain. Maybe replace the sound files with the ones on the OST disc releases?

 

[Dinjoralo]

Do you guys have this feeling that the music and sound in general is of poor quality? Like they used sounds and music of lower bit rate?

Or maybe that's just me.

For me, it's just really quiet. Even turning the audio settings all the way up, it's not as loud as anything else on my computer by a good margin.

 

[Dahaka]

Do you guys have this feeling that the music and sound in general is of poor quality? Like they used sounds and music of lower bit rate?

Or maybe that's just me.

Seems they just used the files for the 512MB consoles and didn't bother working with the masters again (if they still exist at all).

 

[pa22word]

Know what would really suck?

"PC Vanquish port announced! Game logic tied at 30fps"

Platinum botching the mouse controls would be a worse fate than that.


I wouldnt even buy the game, honestly. 30 fps I could tolerate. It would hurt, but I would take it. If platinum ships a third person shooter with mouse controls as fucking horrid as nier I would not subject myself to playing it. For whatever reason they love their negative acceleration, and for someone who loves using a mouse that shit is an automatic poison pill for a game. Especially when it's as stupidly aggressive as it is in nier.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Does anything carry over if you start a new save file with a different character or is it just the difficulty unlocks that stay? Don't really remember much from the PS3 version (other than suffering).

 

[sixteen-bit]

Does anything carry over if you start a new save file with a different character or is it just the difficulty unlocks that stay? Don't really remember much from the PS3 version (other than suffering).

If I remember correctly, you have to start from scratch with new characters (Bayo 2 remedied this tho)

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Goddammit, Hard mode is hard. I keep dying during the Prologue, being killed by Grace and Glory. D:

 

[Auto-Reply]

Goddammit, Hard mode is hard. I keep dying during the Prologue, being killed by Grace and Glory. D:

It's not really an extraordinary tipp but the Moon of Mahaa-Khalaa really defuses Grace and Glory (well, defuses nearly all enemies to be honest) when I face them I always have my thumb on the left stick, always halfway already going for the block at any movement they make. Their attacks are very hard to read and you have to be fast imo, but once you are compfortable with the blocking/parrying then you don't even need to dodge/evade them any longer. Which is a good trainig for Gracious & Glorious where you don't get witchtime from standard-dodging their attacks. If they get you and lift you off the ground to combo you in the air you can still block them there to avoid further damage. Only thing that is dangerous is when facing 2/3 at the same time and they attack from different angles, in which case I still dodge instead of trying to block/parry different directions (which is absolutely doable but I don't like doing that)

 

[Tain]

I would never consider playing Vanquish with a mouse unless the original team made a whole new set of difficulty levels and challenges for it.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

It's not really an extraordinary tipp but the Moon of Mahaa-Khalaa really defuses Grace and Glory (well, defuses nearly all enemies to be honest) when I face them I always have my thumb on the left stick, always halfway already going for the block at any movement they make.

Thanks. I already have Moon of Mahaa-Khalaa, but I still need to learn how to use it properly; my problem is that I always hold the stick in the direction the enemy is, so in order to parry/block an attack, I have to get off the stick and push it again. :/

Anyway, I'm still surprised that the Hard is so hard. Not only is the enemy layout drastically changed (Grace & Glory and Fearless in the very first level D, but it seems enemies are more aggressive now, their attacks hurt more (a successful air combo from Grace or Glory can take almost half of my current health bar) and land successfully more often (I'm being hurt by attacks I'm pretty sure would considered "dodged" on Normal); it's also harder to interrupt those attacks, even when being hit enemies often don't stop their attack animation.

 

[KingBroly]

I would never consider playing Vanquish with a mouse unless the original team made a whole new set of difficulty levels and challenges for it.

I do the mini-game in this with a Mouse. It's a lot easier.

 

[Jintor]

Thanks. I already have Moon of Mahaa-Khalaa, but I still need to learn how to use it properly; my problem is that I always hold the stick in the direction the enemy is, so in order to parry/block an attack, I have to get off the stick and push it again. :/

Anyway, I'm still surprised that the Hard is so hard. Not only is the enemy layout drastically changed (Grace & Glory and Fearless in the very first level D, but it seems enemies are more aggressive now, their attacks hurt more (a successful air combo from Grace or Glory can take almost half of my current health bar) and land successfully more often (I'm being hurt by attacks I'm pretty sure would considered "dodged" on Normal); it's also harder to interrupt those attacks, even when being hit enemies often don't stop their attack animation.

hard mode is where the real bayo begins. true bayo gameplay is basically never getting hit.

i was so relieved when i finally bought crow spear and bat within and unlocked panther. I had no frigging maneuverability before then

 

[KainXVIII]

I wonder how Platinum Games get away with these shitty mini-games (bike race, flying on rocket and turret shooting) and one of the worst button-mashing QTEs in my memory (Jeanne fight 3 is just brutal, i can't pull this QTE even if i dedicate my whole hand to it). 10/10 my ass 😌

 

[Mr_Zombie]

I wonder how Platinum Games get away with these shitty mini-games (bike race, flying on rocket and turret shooting) and one of the worst button-mashing QTEs in my memory (Jeanne fight 3 is just brutal, i can't pull this QTE even if i dedicate my whole hand to it). 10/10 my ass 😌

Don't forget insta-death QTE out of nowhere (even during boss fights), or situations where you can miss QTE and the boss replenish part of its health (two last bosses). That's bullshit.

When the game works, it's 10/10, but there are so many baffling design decisions.

 

[Shredderi]

Don't forget insta-death QTE out of nowhere (even during boss fights), or situations where you can miss QTE and the boss replenish part of its health (two last bosses). That's bullshit.

When the game works, it's 10/10, but there are so many baffling design decisions.

Truth. The game is a masterclass in it's genre but goddamn should instakill QTE fails during bossfights be outlawed. That is cheap. That is indeed cheap and not needed in these games.

 

[Mohasus]

(Jeanne fight 3 is just brutal, i can't pull this QTE even if i dedicate my whole hand to it).

Try using two hands for it then. Not joking, that's how I do it. Alternating between index fingers.

 

[Auto-Reply]

Thanks. I already have Moon of Mahaa-Khalaa, but I still need to learn how to use it properly; my problem is that I always hold the stick in the direction the enemy is, so in order to parry/block an attack, I have to get off the stick and push it again. :/

Anyway, I'm still surprised that the Hard is so hard. Not only is the enemy layout drastically changed (Grace & Glory and Fearless in the very first level D, but it seems enemies are more aggressive now, their attacks hurt more (a successful air combo from Grace or Glory can take almost half of my current health bar) and land successfully more often (I'm being hurt by attacks I'm pretty sure would considered "dodged" on Normal); it's also harder to interrupt those attacks, even when being hit enemies often don't stop their attack animation.

You don't really need to hold the stick toward the direction where the enemy is because the game softlocks you into that direction when you're close and you can overwrite it by holding RB or tapping it towards a different enemy when attacking. The position of the left stick is usually neutral when fighting an enemy and is only moved when doing some technique or when blocking/parrying.
You have to move the stick quickly towards the enemy that is about to hit you to block/parry and with a bit of practise you can pull that off consistantly like dodging.
It's worth the effort to get good at that as you can really block nearly everything in the game, even boss attacks/failed qte's that lead to getting hit and laserbeams (you have to move the stick repeatedly towards the beam to not get hit and Bayonetta will bring up the blocking-sign in quick succession = /notquite/notquite/notquite/notquite. etc)

 

[toastyToast]

I wonder how Platinum Games get away with these shitty mini-games (bike race, flying on rocket and turret shooting) and one of the worst button-mashing QTEs in my memory (Jeanne fight 3 is just brutal, i can't pull this QTE even if i dedicate my whole hand to it). 10/10 my ass 😌

Bayonetta 2 removed most of that stuff and is much better for it. Although when the original is not busy being shit its superior

 

[UrbanRats]

Moved away from this to replace with what, exactly? Because in the 7 years since Bayo 1, Bayo 2 is the only action game of this caliber, and that's a similarly designed stylish melee arena combat game.

Walk & Talk, duh.

 

[Jintor]

is mashing harder on PC or are my fingers just wrecked?

trying to beat Jean in her ora ora ora battles gets my ass handed to me every time. it has been like 5 years since i last tried to mash it out tho.

 

[EatChildren]

I wonder how Platinum Games get away with these shitty mini-games (bike race, flying on rocket and turret shooting) and one of the worst button-mashing QTEs in my memory (Jeanne fight 3 is just brutal, i can't pull this QTE even if i dedicate my whole hand to it). 10/10 my ass 😌

They're bad, but to be fair they're Platinum's worst. Every subsequent title dials back insta-kill QTEs and events more and more, or at the very least increases the window of success considerably. Bayonetta is unfortunately bloated with some awful insta-death shit.

 

[Jintor]

also it's been 7 years and kamiya shoehorning in a 10-15 minute space harrier sequence before the best boss fight in the entire game is still bullshit

why kamiya

why

 

[Geraldo_Ray]

Got through Normal and Hard Difficulty, and making my way through Non-Stop ∞ Climax. Been smooth sailing going through the game again on PC (despite the in-game AA not working).

And yeah, the insta-death QTE are pretty bad on the first playthrough (although I've gotten used to them for the most part).

 

[DOBERMAN INC]

After hearing so much about this game over the years I'm really disappointed with it, the gameplay does seem like something I would like to sink my teeth into but the overall presentation is a complete put off. The cutscenes and acting are so cheesy and over the top,not to mention how pervy it is, I just felt awkward playing it.

 

[Anteater]

I only tried the button mashing twice in the Jeanne fight in non stop climax, lost both times and said fuck it and dodged that shit everytime

 

[lmimmfn]

I do the mini-game in this with a Mouse. It's a lot easier.

Damn, I must remember this, lol, I'm useless at the mini game

 

[Auto-Reply]

After hearing so much about this game over the years I'm really disappointed with it, the gameplay does seem like something I would like to sink my teeth into but the overall presentation is a complete put off. The cutscenes and acting are so cheesy and over the top,not to mention how pervy it is, I just felt awkward playing it.

I have to admit that I did feel akward too when I first played it, over time I not only started to don't mind anymore, I actually love it now, the way it presents itself. It is extremely unique in it's presentation and tone among videogames, it's more like a big music video with crazy people and a crazy storyline lot's of dancing and lot's of sexual innuendo and extreme violence and gore. And still, it is not without heart, there are some feels in the story too, despite it's over the top pervy crazyness.
I wish there were more games like this!

Spoiler

I've played Lollipop Chainsaw, nice humor in that one, but it doesn't even come close in everything else.

Damn, I must remember this, lol, I'm useless at the mini game

It is better with a mouse, but it also works on a controller when you stay in the middle/horizontal line of the screen and only go left and right (not up and down) and also always fire when the enemies head is a little above the crosshair and not directly on it then it becomes much easier.