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Ben Stein: Mark Felt, aka Deep Throat, responsible for Cambodian genocide.

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Macam

Banned
Now I'm accustomed to certain right wing pundits putting their spin on things (and similarly, the left), but perhaps I'm either acutely unaware of Stein's past political opinions, but I stumbled on this article and I'm quite surprised by the level of ferocity leveled at Felt, especially with regards to the conclusion:

Re: The "news" that former FBI agent Mark Felt broke the law, broke his code of ethics, broke his oath and was the main source for Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward's articles that helped depose Richard Nixon, a few thoughts.

Can anyone even remember now what Nixon did that was so terrible? He ended the war in Vietnam, brought home the POW's, ended the war in the Mideast, opened relations with China, started the first nuclear weapons reduction treaty, saved Eretz Israel's life, started the Environmental Protection Administration. Does anyone remember what he did that was bad?

Oh, now I remember. He lied. He was a politician who lied. How remarkable. He lied to protect his subordinates who were covering up a ridiculous burglary that no one to this date has any clue about its purpose. He lied so he could stay in office and keep his agenda of peace going. That was his crime. He was a peacemaker and he wanted to make a world where there was a generation of peace. And he succeeded.

That is his legacy. He was a peacemaker. He was a lying, conniving, covering up peacemaker. He was not a lying, conniving drug addict like JFK, a lying, conniving war starter like LBJ, a lying, conniving seducer like Clinton -- a lying, conniving peacemaker. That is Nixon's kharma.

When his enemies brought him down, and they had been laying for him since he proved that Alger Hiss was a traitor, since Alger Hiss was their fair-haired boy, this is what they bought for themselves in the Kharma Supermarket that is life:

1.) The defeat of the South Vietnamese government with decades of death and hardship for the people of Vietnam.

2.) The assumption of power in Cambodia by the bloodiest government of all time, the Khmer Rouge, who killed a third of their own people, often by making children beat their own parents to death. No one doubts RN would never have let this happen.

So, this is the great boast of the enemies of Richard Nixon, including Mark Felt: they made the conditions necessary for the Cambodian genocide. If there is such a thing as kharma, if there is such a thing as justice in this life of the next, Mark Felt has bought himself the worst future of any man on this earth. And Bob Woodward is right behind him, with Ben Bradlee bringing up the rear. Out of their smug arrogance and contempt, they hatched the worst nightmare imaginable: genocide. I hope they are happy now -- because their future looks pretty bleak to me.


Ben Stein is a writer, actor, economist, and lawyer in Beverly Hills and Malibu, and author of "Ben Stein's Diary" each month in The American Spectator.

Source: http://www.americanprowler.com/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8242
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Well, you do know Ben Stein was a speech writer for Nixon (and Ford), right?
 
Pretty powerful words. While I do consider the Watergate affair to have been shady business, perhaps Ben is right in his assessment that it was no shadier than what has gone on in other administrations. He does seem to be a little too vitriolic however with all the kharma talk.
 

Boogie

Member
I do think Stein has a point. Despite how much he is reviled by the Left, Nixon did advance an agenda of policies that would mostly be supported by the Left.

Sure he was a jackass, and I guess a racist too (I dunno, I'm not that familiar with him), but from his policies, Stein has a point.
 

Macam

Banned
Dan said:
Well, you do know Ben Stein was a speech writer for Nixon (and Ford), right?

No, though that would explain the strong bias.

Still to suggest that they are responsible for genocide is woefully ignorant on unfathomable levels. Perhaps he shares such disdain for today's current world leaders, including this administration, who has been incessantly reluctant to interfere with Darfur or has been mum on the atrocities in Uzbekistan. Moreover, I hardly see how this moral relativism makes things any more acceptable, particularly against his comparisons. For example, is Clinton's sex scandal really more damning than Nixon's actions in regards to Watergate? I'm also baffled as to how he opted to dub Clinton "a conniving seducer", particularly when he just mentioned JFK in the same sentence just prior.
 

maharg

idspispopd
I feel vindicated for saying that he's a huge nixon booster in the thread about potential Deep Throats.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned one of the most significant crimes a government can commit against its people is secrecy, so coverups are absolutely worth 'deposition' imo.

And no (at least as far as I know). He was a teacher in Ferris Bueller's Day Off though. "Bueller.... bueller.... bueller...."
 
maharg said:
I

And no (at least as far as I know). He was a teacher in Ferris Bueller's Day Off though. "Bueller.... bueller.... bueller...."

a quick check on IMDB reveals that i was thinking of The Wonder Years, where he played a teacher, too.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Ben Stein can go to hell. The ends do not justify the means, especially when it involves disregarding the legal operation of democracy.


.... and everyone else calling Deep Throat a "traitor" can go to hell too. Apparently loyalty to your Great Leader is more important than loyalty to your country.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
We need a government that makes Mark Felt obsolete.
 

MC Safety

Member
It might be me, or it might be the early hour that I'm posting/reading this, but this doesn't seem entirely legitimate to me. I haven't checked the source material, mind you, so I can't gauge its reliability or accuracy...

Would Ben Stein, a pretty smart guy, misspell "Karma"?

(Is "Kharma" an accepted variant?)
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
the Cambodian genocide and the rise of the Khmer Rouge were directly facilitated by the massive secret bombing campaign that Nixon ordered on the region after we 'withdrew' from Vietnam.

this stupid reply by Ben Stein is akin to the countless jingoists who follow Bush's retort of "if you're not with us, you're against us". i'm shocked he didn't blame Felt for the rise of Bin Laden or Micheal Jackson either.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
If some random asshole got your boss fired, and you ended up losing a dream job, I'm pretty sure you would hold a grudge for the rest of your life also.


That being said .. it's still a ridiculous statement.
 

SteveMeister

Hang out with Steve.
The one thing I'm surprised Stein didn't mention was an accusation that Felt was "getting back" at the Nixon administration for not getting the top job at the FBI after Hoover died. Felt WAS bitterly disappointed about this -- ostensibly because the man Nixon placed there had a different philosophy of how the FBI should be run than Hoover and Felt did, but it's no big stretch to imagine sour grapes as well.

I'm not sure how I feel about Felt being Deep Throat. I do know that the Watergate scandal was the nail in the coffin for this country's trust in its government. LBJ started it; the Watergate scandal finished it. Who knows what might have happened if Felt hadn't decided to tell Woodward & Bernstien what happened? Nobody, not even Ben Stein.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
stein has some points, however I think he is completely missing the bigger picture.

throughout history nixon will likely be remembered more for "watergate" than anything else (though watergate will be nothing more than a word to most). however, when looking at nixon's policies, I don't think one can question that overall he did more good than bad.

so yes, ben stein is right. nixon was for the most part about brining peace, not war.

that still does not excuse ones behaviour or general level of secrecy in office. Was JFK a shit? of course. Johnson? of course. Clinton? ummmm.. the biggest pimp to ever serve as president. but excusing their actions as some sort of "terms of behavior" in office as the president is retarded, and saying "Hey, nixon isn't that bad, look at these other assholes he is just as bad as" is equally retarded.

unfortunately presidents like nixon, clinton, johnson, and bush are the norm now. career politicians who view the white house as a gold rin to obtain. when you get there bring as many people with you as you can that are friends or helped you out along the way. work for four years to try and make sure you get another four years, and then try to work so your party has a strong foundation to work from to get another four years in office. oh, and if you can do some good while you're there I guess that is ok also.
 
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You mean THIS GUY has some intellectual authority in your country? His books are filled with some of the most inane stupidities I've ever read (I read a couple of pages standing in a library, shaking my head).
 

SteveMeister

Hang out with Steve.
What makes you think he has intellectual "authority" here? OK, so he was a speechwriter 35 years ago. But most people here know him as the droning teacher in "Ferris Beuller's Day Off" or as host of the game show "Win Ben Stein's Money". It's not like he's making policy or exerting any political power.
 

6.8

Member
I'm canadian too, but Ben Stein is allowed to say whatever he wants, and people can care however they want.
 
scorcho said:
the Cambodian genocide and the rise of the Khmer Rouge were directly facilitated by the massive secret bombing campaign that Nixon ordered on the region after we 'withdrew' from Vietnam.

this stupid reply by Ben Stein is akin to the countless jingoists who follow Bush's retort of "if you're not with us, you're against us". i'm shocked he didn't blame Felt for the rise of Bin Laden or Micheal Jackson either.


DING! And exactly why I revile Nixon (and Kissineger).

Re Nixon, and his accomplishments: Yeah, he was a progressive, moderate Republican at a time when the contry was very liberal, which makes a lot of sense. (Just as Clinton was a progressive, moderate Democrat when the contry was conservative.) But to credit him with peacemaking in Asia and ending the Vietnam conflict is absurd. He went into office in 68 with a promise to end the war, and didn't for 5 or so years, and made things *worse* in the meantime.

And, icing: he also catered to some of the worst of the liberal agenda, notably he was a tax-and-spender and a deficit-builder, and advaocated price-controls to curb inflation (eek, thank god that idea is dead).

That said, he was a diplomat of serious chops. he went to China. He engineered arms reduction and scaling back the cold war (which Reagan, that asshole, undid).

But for Cambodia and Vietnam, he gets a warm spot if hell right next to LBJ (my next-least-favorite president).

Watergate is just the ugly reality of presidential politics made public. What he did was wrong, and I was outraged at it (and still am, somewhat) for years, but when I read an extensive J Edgar Hoover bio, I realized that all the presidents since FDR had done similar things-- they just had the FBI do it for them. Hoover, aware that the FBI was under more and more scrutiny, turned down Nixon's request to wiretap the DNC's HQ (which he had done, or things similar, for all past sitting presidents) and Nixon was forced to have his own guys do it instead. And they got caught.

Anyway, for this ridiculous spin, Ben Stien gets -10000 from me. I used to like the guy. he's smart and funny. But this is just revisionism.
 
6.8 said:
I'm canadian too, but Ben Stein is allowed to say whatever he wants, and people can care however they want.
Yep, and I'm allowed to say that it's stupid to care about Ben Stein's opinion! VIVE LA DÉMOCRATIE!
 
Nixon was a far better president than he is given credit for, and he did a lot of things, especially in the area of foreign policy. However, he will always be rememberd for Watergate in most people's minds. He lied to the American public, and took steps to deceive and cover-up investigations. No matter how much good he did in other areas, that's still wrong, and we should expect more out of our leaders. What Clinton did was not much different, and although sleeping with an intern, to me, is not as bad as breaking into the democratic campaign headquarters, the lies and cover-ups are along the same lines. As I said, we need to expect more out of our leaders.

As for Mark Felt, there is of course, going to be a lot of sour grapes from some Nixon old guard like Ben Stein. For the most part, the general public, upon hearing about the true identity of Deep Throat first went "Deep What?". Than when it was explained to them, they said "Mark Who?". Upon further explanation, it was mostly a "Who cares?". Sad, but true.
 

Bluecondor

Member
Ben Stein is a business school professor at Pepperdine (I believe). He teaches business ethics (in addition to his tv shows and movie appearances). I'm not sure, but he may even have a Ph.D.

The thing is, when you teach ethics, the worst thing you can do is be blatant about your political beliefs and opinions, because people can always see right through this. If you aren't objective, people who don't agree with your ideology turn you off from day one.

I hope he doesn't stand on the soapbox like this in class. Otherwise, a lot of his students probably can't stand him.
 

6.8

Member
Foreign Jackass said:
Yep, and I'm allowed to say that it's stupid to care about Ben Stein's opinion! VIVE LA DÉMOCRATIE!
Did I ever say that you weren't allowed to say it?
 

Triumph

Banned
Haha, Ben Stein is full of shit. Richard Nixon was so fucking crooked his pants weren't straight. And the whole Cambodian horseshit? Like somebody else said, Nixon is pretty much responsible for that thanks to the bombing after the war. Not to mention that Stein conveniently forgot to mention the genocide in East Timor, which happened at roughly the same time, at roughly the same scale. Of course nobody in the US likes to talk about that, because we sold the fucking butchers their weapons. It was "politically convenient".
 

impirius

Member
(The best part of this whole W. Mark Felt thing is getting to see all the chirpy news anchors say "Deep Throat" over and over)

I can appreciate what Stein is saying in the first part, but a cover-up is a cover-up, and Nixon deserved to get caught. Blaming Felt for genocide is just a liiiiittle bit over the top.
 

Shinobi

Member
Bluecondor said:
Ben Stein is a business school professor at Pepperdine (I believe). He teaches business ethics (in addition to his tv shows and movie appearances). I'm not sure, but he may even have a Ph.D.

The thing is, when you teach ethics, the worst thing you can do is be blatant about your political beliefs and opinions, because people can always see right through this. If you aren't objective, people who don't agree with your ideology turn you off from day one.

I hope he doesn't stand on the soapbox like this in class. Otherwise, a lot of his students probably can't stand him.

Yep. This read as nothing more then a partisan rant from a bitter patriach. Frankly this is one of my biggest annoyances the last few years...people have become even more partisan then usual (happens here in Canada as well), choosing to tow the party line no matter what the angle over basic common sense.

Gotta say though, I wish Felt had unveiled himself when Nixon was alive...it could've provided some great comedic moments. :lol
 

Santo

Junior Member
This isn't news or anything but Ben Stein has always been very republican, I wouldn't be surprised to see him defending GWB over WMD in Iraq either (or something of the like).
 
Santo said:
This isn't news or anything but Ben Stein has always been very republican, I wouldn't be surprised to see him defending GWB over WMD in Iraq either (or something of the like).
We can start making a list of entertainment conservatives so when someone complains about liberal Hollywood actors talking too much, we can just put up the list.

Another person people might not know about is Pat Sajak. Have you read his blog? Heh.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
>>>This isn't news or anything but Ben Stein has always been very republican, I wouldn't be surprised to see him defending GWB over WMD in Iraq either (or something of the like).<<<

Howard Stern was a vocal Republican for decades, and look what happened there.
 
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