Europe has a long history of showing their bellies to authoritarian states. Why stop now?
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Bill Browder's prepared statement to the Senate Judiciary Committee - must read
- Thread starter Windu
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Europe has a long history of showing their bellies to authoritarian states. Why stop now?
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Yep. Putin wants the US to repeal the Magnitsky Act, full stop. Trump got his money from... somewhere. "Wouldn't it be nice if we got along better with Russia?"
Putin and the oligarchs are stealing from their own country and laundering it through various means in the West including Trump businesses.
ADOPTIONS
StopMakingSense
Member
This has been the going assumption for quite some time in many circles.
So they are trying to spin away from Russia and focus this on blocking information from Fusion GPS? Why?
I don't think Putin cared that much about Sanders so long as it hurt Clinton.
If Sanders won the primary, Putin would have shifted gears depending on how the situation evolved.
I'm not kidding when I say he's really efficient.
The biggest point for foreign policy in France last April was relationship with Russia and basically all the candidates but the winners either folded before Vlad or didn't care.
I know we joke about how Putin bought the whole of the GoP but it's an actual real possibility.
LucidMomentum
Member
You know why.
What I get from this is that the whole Trump family and Kushner have been using dirty Russian money to fund their real estate businesses for years, essentially laundering Russian money now frozen by the Magninsky Act.
Pretty damning information when you start connecting some dots.
Pretty damning information when you start connecting some dots.
"Look over there, it's a (((Democrat))) doing a thing!"
I am still confused by what Fusion GPS's role was.
They did oppo against Romney, but they were also hired to be anti-Magninsky, and they funded the Steele Dossier?
Everything about this situation is no fucking joke. Just reading what Magnitsky went through and the picturing Putin doing one of his outlandish photo ops is fucking infuriating.
And the sad part is that I don't see any of this stopping anytime soon. Putin will continue doing his heinous shit while his adoring fanbase praise him at every opportunity.
Donald Trump and his family are crooks who hopefully see justice someday. That's the only thing that would bring some comfort because Putin and his band of rich cronies aren't going down anytime soon.
And the sad part is that I don't see any of this stopping anytime soon. Putin will continue doing his heinous shit while his adoring fanbase praise him at every opportunity.
Donald Trump and his family are crooks who hopefully see justice someday. That's the only thing that would bring some comfort because Putin and his band of rich cronies aren't going down anytime soon.
It makes sense, Trump Ltd (let's call the family like that) is basically unable to loan money from regular normal banks.
Only Deutch bank is willing to loan money to serial defaulter Trump, so he did the exact same thing LePen did in France when she was unable to secure funds :
Get that money from Russian banks.
They launder money because no one will fund them otherwise, it's a match made in heaven.
Do we really need to know the content of the meeting with Jr at this point?
I mean for proper justice maybe but the picture should be clear for everyone at this point.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Crazy reading.
Pretty baffling that McCain would help create the Magnitsky Act and then go on to support Trump.
Pretty baffling that McCain would help create the Magnitsky Act and then go on to support Trump.
There was a poster on daily kos that would write these really bombastic anti-Bernie tirades essentially saying we needed to vote for Hillary because Bernie was a white supremacist, and anyone that supported him was a white supremacist, and there were others that did similar things calling Hillary a warmonger/corrupt/etc. many of those people are still at it, but I feel like the people recommending the posts and retweeting them may not have the best interests of the Democratic Party in mind.
DrROBschiz
Member
I feel like the damage was done
It will take generations to undo the evil spell that consumes the minds of conservatives
Death to liberals at all costs mindlessly
I'm listening to the hearing now, and it seems like the major contradiction here is that Fusion worked with Russia to place stories in the media against the Magnitsky Act, as WELL as hire Steele and produce the Trump dossier.
However, the Trump dossier is likely to be some sort of blackmail against Trump to coerce compliance about Magnitsky. Looking at it that way, it makes sense that Russia would be responsible for both.
DrROBschiz
Member
Fuck man this shit goes deep
If that's really the job of anti-Democrat/pro Russian people, we've been played HARD.
And even knowing about it I don't think we could have done much, it's incredible how effective that was.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
Wow, words can't do this justice. The movie that could be made out of this report alone, Jesus the web of this thing.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
This right here is the story not only of one of the most despicable criminal conspiracies and organizations of all time, but the story of Donald Trump, the 2016 election, and the entire Republican Party. We all know it. Mueller knows it.
The election meddling was trumps carrot and the dossier was the stick.
Yep. Just heard this part with Browder and Graham in the Senate hearing. He said Russia would definitely play both sides to get an advantage in anyway they could. Making a blackmail piece about Trump to control him while also supporting Trump's candidacy is well within their strategy book.
Makes me think the dossier has a lot more truth to it than we know.
Where's the gaffer that was very sure Russia was a "non issue"? I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on this.
I mean, the Magnitsky Act is law, the events taking place are not disputed, and we believe Russia is doing this to manipulate our entire election process, politics, and world influence.
I mean, the Magnitsky Act is law, the events taking place are not disputed, and we believe Russia is doing this to manipulate our entire election process, politics, and world influence.
Not just the US. They tried it with France as well.
KarneeKarnay
Member
This shit is nuts and makes so much sense that out of any theory I have heard, this makes the most sense. How can we make a difference though?
FunkyMunkey
Banned
mueller bringing on board the world star finance lawyers makes more sense now too as this both require extreme finesse and knowledge of the illegalities, AND will be the biggest corruption case in history as far as i can tell
It's been a while since we've had a "non-issue" of this magnitude. Definitely the greatest non-existential threat to America of my lifetime.
DrROBschiz
Member
yeah like
What happens next
Clearly we are already maintaining a hard line stance on russia outside of Trump
What do we do about the Trump Administration
Just sit around and block him until the clock runs out?
What happens next
Clearly we are already maintaining a hard line stance on russia outside of Trump
What do we do about the Trump Administration
Just sit around and block him until the clock runs out?
Ampersands
Member
Jesus.. It all really came together for me after reading his statement. It's always money that motivates but seeing the numbers and methods used to get it really grounds things in reality.
One major takeaway from this is also that Putin's Russia is not necessarily interested in Trump or American conservatism, and this 'friendship' is about as one-sided as you can imagine.
Browder's assertion, under oath, is that Putin's Russia meddles and creates chaos without partisanship, and their goal here is to get the US to repeal this act that threatens the will of their entire mafia that's running the Russian government.
Even if Trump & Co. had zero intent to collude with Russia, they are fucking idiots for letting all of this happen. Best case scenario, they are being played like fools (and that's a generous one). I don't think they're that innocent, but I really can't see how ANYBODY can allow these people to stay in office with this knowledge.
Browder's assertion, under oath, is that Putin's Russia meddles and creates chaos without partisanship, and their goal here is to get the US to repeal this act that threatens the will of their entire mafia that's running the Russian government.
Even if Trump & Co. had zero intent to collude with Russia, they are fucking idiots for letting all of this happen. Best case scenario, they are being played like fools (and that's a generous one). I don't think they're that innocent, but I really can't see how ANYBODY can allow these people to stay in office with this knowledge.
Believe that's what Mueller is working on no?
DrROBschiz
Member
Trump family HAD to know at the very least that what they were engaging in was shady
No way they are simply dumb dupes in all of this
even then their negligence to their country is damn near treason in itself
We really need Mueller to come through with concrete charges backing all of this.
It being condensed into a short linear story with references to immediate events that are in the daily news.
Also the concise representation of scale.
200 billion $ in personal, illegal gains from state sanctioned protection money scheme.
TWO
HUNDRED
BILLION
DOLLARS
Guy is the biggest kleptocrat that every lived. he can finance all the Farages, Le Pen's, Manaforts and Petry's of the World out of pocket change.
Dismantling the West as a happy side effect of him trying to safeguard his ill gotten gains. It is pure win-win for him, he must chuckle sovietly all day long.
TWO
HUNDRED
BILLION
DOLLARS
Guy is the biggest kleptocrat that every lived. he can finance all the Farages, Le Pen's, Manaforts and Petry's of the World out of pocket change.
Dismantling the West as a happy side effect of him trying to safeguard his ill gotten gains. It is pure win-win for him, he must chuckle sovietly all day long.
There's a reason a bill's currently in the process that limits Trump's ability to lift sanctions.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Best to assume that they'll dig up dirt on anyone given that the price is right.
I'm wondering, if Russia does have some kind of destructive dirt on Trump (such as the stuff in the dossier, if not more), at what point do they play that card?
If their objective is solely to get this act repealed and secure Putin's power at home, you can't play it too soon as long as Trump is in power, it's the only chance they've got.
They could watch the fucking circus over here burn half the country to the ground, they could possibly even watch Trump's family get hauled away to jail as long as somebody gets around to repealing the one thing they care about.
If their objective is solely to get this act repealed and secure Putin's power at home, you can't play it too soon as long as Trump is in power, it's the only chance they've got.
They could watch the fucking circus over here burn half the country to the ground, they could possibly even watch Trump's family get hauled away to jail as long as somebody gets around to repealing the one thing they care about.
I mean i could see how it is a bit suprising to americans but it's kinda naive to think putin wouldn't try to create chaos and lobby for his gain in the US when their inofficial manifesto literally describes this.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
This is a better movie plot than most political thrillers I've seen, holy shit. O_O
Thank you, stealing this for the inevitable "tl;dr give me a summary plz".
Dude c'mon, that act was voted on in what, 2010, 2012? Long before the primary. I don't know why Bernie voted against it, but that kind of ridiculous accusatory speculation helps no one.
Thank you, stealing this for the inevitable "tl;dr give me a summary plz".
What happens when a mafia state is backed into a corner?
Revolution really on the table for a superpower in this day in age?
Surreal.
You're right. I don't think anyone is "surprised". Everyone already kinda knows this is happening. I think just having it mapped out in such concise detail like this is what is knocking the wind out of people. Presented this way, it's really hard to look away. Really cutting into my work attention actually.
Revolution really on the table for a superpower in this day in age?
Surreal.
You're right. I don't think anyone is "surprised". Everyone already kinda knows this is happening. I think just having it mapped out in such concise detail like this is what is knocking the wind out of people. Presented this way, it's really hard to look away. Really cutting into my work attention actually.
Uh, I don't think anybody here is experiencing an "omg Putin is trying to dick around with our democracy" revelation here. This statement is important because of how it spells out the fine details and tightly wraps a bow around that whole Trump Jr meeting. A large portion of the screenplay for the film that will be made about this 10 years from now could be taken from this statement. "We were just talking about adoptions."
I think Putin might beg to differ with the bolded lol.
ShironRedshift
Member
Thread title definitely ain't wrong. The whole thing definitely is a must read. Puts it all together in a neat, concise format concerning why all this Russia stuff is anything but a nothingburger. Nothing I hadn't heard about in bits and pieces here and there, but putting it all together like that definitely makes it a must read.
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