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Bill Cosby explains - but doesn't back away from - controversial comments

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Ripclawe

Banned
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/9058204.htm?1c


Jesse in the background thinking " fool is taking away my revenue if he keeps talking like this"

82049627500.jpg
 

Justin Bailey

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Cosby made it clear that he stands behind his earlier statements about how the importance of speaking proper English is lost on certain "knuckleheads" in the black community.

"If they set up businesses in the neighborhood, then they can have their own languages," he said to cheers and laughter.
Since when is slingin' rocks not a business?
 
Ripclawe said:
Jesse in the background thinking " fool is taking away my revenue if he keeps talking like this"

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/Illinois+State+News/DBF4EC0E682B5A1286256EC4007488B2?OpenDocument&Headline=Bill+Cosby+explains+--+but+doesn't+back+away+from+--+controv

Jackson defended Cosby's statements. "Bill is saying let's fight the right fight, let's level the playing field," Jackson told the audience. "Drunk people can't do that. Illiterate people can't do that."

It might help if you read the article before making smartass comments.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
For someone who at one point in his career made "Fat Albert" hardly the epitome of "proper usage" this is funny.

I both agree and disagree with him in certain aspects regarding this, but I respect him for being unapalogetic for his opinion on this issue.
 

belgurdo

Banned
What is "proper English?" I hear of CEOs who speak in nothing but street slang or in bizarre jargon-laced dialects...

Oh, yeah...

scola said:
For someone who at one point in his career made "Fat Albert" hardly the epitome of "proper usage" this is funny.

Yeah, fuck Cosby.

edit: And let's not forget the metric shitload of "street hustler" movies he did in the 70s...
 

karasu

Member
bishoptl said:
How is it hypocritical?


He created (and did most of the voicework for ) Fat Albert, a show that's written in the same vernacular he speaks against. He's also producing the live action version. So he hates it, but he's willing to get rich off of it. If you hate it so much, why put more images of the same out there?
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
belgurdo said:
What is "proper English?" I hear of CEOs who speak in nothing but street slang or in bizarre jargon-laced dialects...
Really? I'd venture that those are the exception rather than the rule.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
karasu said:
He created (and did most of the voicework for ) Fat Albert, a show that's written in the same vernacular he speaks against. He's also producing the live action version. So he hates it, but he's willing to get rich off of it. If you hate it so much, why put more images of the same out there?
That show was based off his childhood experiences. Did you expect him to clean it up?
 

karasu

Member
That show was based off his childhood experiences. Did you expect him to clean it up?

No. I expect him not to close his mind just because he's on the other side of the fence and the hill now. If you're making a profit from it, speaking out against it is ridiculous. The very reason the show is a success is because people can relate to it, and they continue to relate to it. He's making money off of ghetto imagery and experiences just like any rapper with his 'hat turned backwards'. For his words to have ANY weight as anything other than shock value, he needs to quit making cash off of "exploitive imagery". If not, he should have a coke and a smile and stfu.
 
karasu said:
No. I expect him not to close his mind just because he's on the other side of the fence and the hill now. If you're making a profit from it, speaking out against it is ridiculous. The very reason the show is a success is because people can relate to it, and they continue to relate to it. He's making money off of ghetto imagery and experiences just like any rapper with his 'hat turned backwards'. For his words to have ANY weight as anything other than shock value, he needs to quit making cash off of "exploitive imagery". If not, he should have a coke and a smile and stfu.

So... are you suggesting he's not allowed to change his mind or improve himself? Sure, I can see how his current stance contradicts his past work, but I don't hold it against him and it doesn't make his opinion any less credible with me.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
Meh - these rappers who revel in their willful ignorance are a far cry from a show like Fat Albert, who used (in the cartoon, I can only speculate in regards to the upcoming movie) the vernacular of the street to communicate a positive message instead of destructive ones. As far as the behaviour of people who insist on living beyond their means in order to keep up with the Joneses, what he said was long over due - a lot of these shitheads need a slap upside the head, but a verbal one was just as effective.

He touched that nerve that few others in the black community have the balls to address, and for that he gets props.
 

Lil' Dice

Banned
karasu said:
No. I expect him not to close his mind just because he's on the other side of the fence and the hill now. If you're making a profit from it, speaking out against it is ridiculous. The very reason the show is a success is because people can relate to it, and they continue to relate to it. He's making money off of ghetto imagery and experiences just like any rapper with his 'hat turned backwards'. For his words to have ANY weight as anything other than shock value, he needs to quit making cash off of "exploitive imagery". If not, he should have a coke and a smile and stfu.

You're not really comparing the Fat Albert cartoons to some of the tripe that's released, and labeled as "Hip-Hop"?
Fat Albert is nowhere near as demeaning as the tamest of rap albums.
Most black people hate hearing the truth, the shit hurts, and does not fit their ass-bacward ideals that 'the man' is somehow still responsible for our shortcomings.
I wonder how the Chinese would be today had they spent decades whining about white opression instead of lifting themselves from the same pit of opression we came from?
 

karasu

Member
ScientificNinja said:
So... are you suggesting he's not allowed to change his mind or improve himself? Sure, I can see how his current stance contradicts his past work, but I don't hold it against him and it doesn't make his opinion any less credible with me.




NO. Not at all. I'm not saying anything like that. He didn't simply "improve himself". He's talking to a group of people like they're the scum of the fucking earth. I hate that judgemental tripe when it's coming from someone like Pat Robertson and I hate it when it's coming from Cosby. To me, its more a reflection of his own problems more than the problems of anyone else. There is nothing he can possibly say that'll make me give a shit about whether some kid wears his hat backwards or forwards. He's a kid, and it's just a hat for petes sake.
 

Lil' Dice

Banned
Tre said:
"Fat Albert is nowhere near as demeaning as the tamest of rap albums."

Please, shut up. There are 100% positive rap albums.

Name one....And don't come back with some generic ass response until you can better prove your point....And take note that i said "rap" albums, if you can't spot the difference then hit the door....

bishoptl said:
Meh - these rappers who revel in their willful ignorance are a far cry from a show like Fat Albert, who used (in the cartoon, I can only speculate in regards to the upcoming movie) the vernacular of the street to communicate a positive message instead of destructive ones. As far as the behaviour of people who insist on living beyond their means in order to keep up with the Joneses, what he said was long over due - a lot of these shitheads need a slap upside the head, but a verbal one was just as effective.

He touched that nerve that few others in the black community have the balls to address, and for that he gets props.


I agree. You must be over 25, and a modeslty responsible young man to make sense of the whole situation....
 

karasu

Member
bishoptl said:
Meh - these rappers who revel in their willful ignorance are a far cry from a show like Fat Albert, who used (in the cartoon, I can only speculate in regards to the upcoming movie) the vernacular of the street to communicate a positive message instead of destructive ones. As far as the behaviour of people who insist on living beyond their means in order to keep up with the Joneses, what he said was long over due - a lot of these shitheads need a slap upside the head, but a verbal one was just as effective.

He touched that nerve that few others in the black community have the balls to address, and for that he gets props.



dude if I walked up to you on the street and expressed my problems with you the way he expressed his problems with a certain group of kids, you'd probably kick me in the earlobe.

Yeah, trying to keep up with the Joneses can be a major problem. Is it a problem unique to blacks? No. Yes, if you use proper grammar you're probably a little more likely to get the high paying job you want. Is this a problem unique to the black community? No! Sure, youth trends are kind of sloppy, and may turn some people off, especially the elderly. Is this unique to black youth? Nope. These are generally universal problems with youth, not limited to any one race or social class. Phrasing it the way he did only gave people the confidence to celebrate bash black people week. He could have put more thought into it if you ask me.
 

Lil' Dice

Banned
karasu said:
dude if I walked up to you on the street and expressed my problems with you the way he expressed his problems with a certain group of kids, you'd probably kick me in the earlobe.

Yeah, trying to keep up with the Joneses can be a major problem. Is it a problem unique to blacks? No. Yes, if you use proper grammar you're probably a little more likely to get the high paying job you want. Is this a problem unique to the black community? No! Sure, youth trends are kind of sloppy, and may turn some people off, especially the elderly. Is this unique to black youth? Nope. These are generally universal problems with youth, not limited to any one race or social class. Phrasing it the way he did only gave people the confidence to celebrate bash black people week. He could have put more thought into it if you ask me.

Bill isn't concerned with other races though.
If you've ever hung around inner city black youths you'd know that there's a serious epidemic threatening black men, and to a lesser extent black women. It's not white people, but rather our own regressed state of mind, and welfare mentality that's keeping our little brothers down. No one is making them sell dope, shoot each other, and splurge on an Escalade instead of paying their child support. Growing up i was presented with those choices as well, and i don't recall a white man ever twisting my arm to sell poison to the niggaz on the block....
 

karasu

Member
Lil' Dice said:
You're not really comparing the Fat Albert cartoons to some of the tripe that's released, and labeled as "Hip-Hop"?
Fat Albert is nowhere near as demeaning as the tamest of rap albums.
Most black people hate hearing the truth, the shit hurts, and does not fit their ass-bacward ideals that 'the man' is somehow still responsible for our shortcomings.
I wonder how the Chinese would be today had they spent decades whining about white opression instead of lifting themselves from the same pit of opression we came from?


How ignorant. Black people are "lifting themselves out of the pit of oppression". If not people like Cosby wouldn't even have an audience. There wouldn't be a Colin Powell or ...Condolezza Rice (ugh), Jesse Jackson's etc etc etc, so let that go. Naturally people still complain about opression, if you're black I'm sure your mom suffered some of it, just like mine did. It's not like the sins of the past are ancient things, you hear stories growing up and the spirit gets passed down to a point. It happens with any group that has struggled with civil rights. People are still being opressed, they are still being harassed. It's nothing like in the 60's of course, not on the same scale at least, but it does happen. Our shortcomings aren't totally a fault of our own and they aren't totally the fault of "the man". The world isn't that black and white (no pun intended). Naturally as a minority group, we're playing a game of catch up. History gives you the reasons, so I don't have to.

I agree, the "the white man is holding me down" stuff is often overstated. But just because it's overstated, it's no reason to paint us all with the same brush. It's no reason to cheer when the 'black people wear stupid clothes and speak the sucky language!' type talk starts.

and I'm 27.
 

karasu

Member
Lil' Dice said:
Bill isn't concerned with other races though.
If you've ever hung around inner city black youths you'd know that there's a serious epidemic threatening black men, and to a lesser extent black women. It's not white people, but rather our own regressed state of mind, and welfare mentality that's keeping our little brothers down. No one is making them sell dope, shoot each other, and splurge on an Escalade instead of paying their child support. Growing up i was presented with those choices as well, and i don't recall a white man ever twisting my arm to sell poison to the niggaz on the block....

I've lived the same way. I grew up in the projects, people I've grown up wth have been shot and killed. Yeah there were killers and drug dealers there, but BY NO MEANS were they the majority.

And of course you didn't see a white man twisting your arm, wtf would he be in the ghetto for lol. What twists arms is poverty. It's a rough life, therefore you see the rougher sides of humanity. Yelling at the people doing the dirt whie at the same time yelling at those who aren't isn't gonna solve a thing. We need changes in the system.
 

AssMan

Banned
Name one....And don't come back with some generic ass response until you can better prove your point....And take note that i said "rap" albums, if you can't spot the difference then hit the door....



WILL SMITH!
 

Ripclawe

Banned
Is this a problem unique to the black community? No! Sure, youth trends are kind of sloppy, and may turn some people off, especially the elderly. Is this unique to black youth? Nope. These are generally universal problems with youth, not limited to any one race or social class. Phrasing it the way he did only gave people the confidence to celebrate bash black people week. He could have put more thought into it if you ask me.

WTF? There are problems in the black community that is beyond universal threads, it is a full blown crisis. Thats in part what Cosby is talking about and you are still trying to downplay it because you think its unfair to single out black people. its not all blame whitey or blame society. There is nothing in this speech you can point too and say thats a lie.

But just because it's overstated, it's no reason to paint us all with the same brush. It's no reason to cheer when the 'black people wear stupid clothes and speak the sucky language!' type talk starts

He never painted the whole black community, he pointed out a certain segment of the community.
 

karasu

Member
Ripclawe said:
WTF? There are problems in the black community that is beyond universal threads, it is a full blown crisis. Thats in part what Cosby is talking about and you are still trying to downplay it because you think its unfair to single out black people. its not all blame whitey or blame society. There is nothing in this speech you can point too and say thats a lie.

What.


He never painted the whole black community, he pointed out a certain segment of the community.

I was talking about Lil Dice there, not Cosby.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
Lil' Dice said:
Bill isn't concerned with other races though.
That's what I'm talking about. If someone wants to speak to a problem that's running rampant through his own community, why on earth would that community turn on him unless they didn't like having the mirror held up? It's not like he's saying anything that isn't true - and it's a damn sight more acceptable to hear it from Bill Cosby than a white/Latino/whatever saying, "you people need to get your shit together".

I've been reading Hurricane Carter's book "The 16th Round" on transit in to work all this week, and he made a statement roughly halfway through that really struck home. To paraphrase, his point of view was that the poor black community in America had made excuses for negative behaviour for so long, that when he said that blacks should defend themselves against the police or any oppressive force, blacks reflexively turned on him instead of analyzing the position he raised. That's bullshit.

Now Cosby is getting flack for telling his own people that they are in a state of crisis - initially created through racism, but perpetuated by their own ignorant, self-serving behaviour. I applaud him for saying that black America has to quit whining.
 

Lil' Dice

Banned
karasu said:
I've lived the same way. I grew up in the projects, people I've grown up wth have been shot and killed. Yeah there were killers and drug dealers there, but BY NO MEANS were they the majority.

And of course you didn't see a white man twisting your arm, wtf would he be in the ghetto for lol. What twists arms is poverty. It's a rough life, therefore you see the rougher sides of humanity. Yelling at the people doing the dirt whie at the same time yelling at those who aren't isn't gonna solve a thing. We need changes in the system.

Come on now, we both know that was a figure of speech.
And i don't paint everyone with the same brush, it's exactly why i'm able to walk around without a chip on my shoulder, it's why growing up i never blamed my having to hustle credit cards and sell weed to my boys on the white man. Now i'm reformed, mature and it's the reason i'm not personally insulted by Cosby's comments.
It's like that old saying, if the shoe fits......
 

karasu

Member
Lil' Dice said:
Come on now, we both know that was a figure of speech.
And i don't paint everyone with the same brush, it's exactly why i'm able to walk around with a chip on my shoulder, it's why growing up i never blamed my having to hustle credit cards and weed on the white man. Now i'm reformed, mature and it's the reason i'm not personally insulted by Cosby's comments.
It's like that old saying, if the shoe fits......

Wow. I grew up in the projects sure, but I don't wear hip hop gear for one, I have dreads so I don't wear any hats backwards, I've never comitted any kind of credit card fraud or been in any legitimate trouble with the law, I have no baby mama's, and I'm not exactly known for being heavy on the hip hop slang. So uh, yeah... at least now I see why you support Cosby.
 

Lil' Dice

Banned
I don't necessarily "support" Cosby, he's rich enough to not need my support. I do however support upwardly mobile thinking, accountability and foresight. Therefore i find his statements to be a breath of fresh air to the lower common denominator of black community. It's like seeing a bad-ass kid finally get his ass whooped after years of freely terrorizing everyone around him.
 

Dreamfixx

I don't know shit about shit
Name one....And don't come back with some generic ass response until you can better prove your point....And take note that i said "rap" albums, if you can't spot the difference then hit the door....
Nas
Talib Kweli
Mos Def
Kanye, to some extent
many "old school" rappers
surely there is more...
 

MC Safety

Member
karasu said:
He created (and did most of the voicework for ) Fat Albert, a show that's written in the same vernacular he speaks against. He's also producing the live action version. So he hates it, but he's willing to get rich off of it. If you hate it so much, why put more images of the same out there?

The Fat Albert kids, as I recall, all spoke fairly good/normal English. Some of them, however, spoke it with difficulty as they had speech impediments.

Mushmouth, anyone?
 
I've never seen fat albert myself, but from what I gather it shows what was. The majority of commercial "rap" is garbage that proliferates the "thug" life. Big diff.
 

Dragmire

Member
It's nice to see progressive thinking in the black community. Even if it is a hypocritical statement from Bill Cosby (and I don't think it is), I agree with the message. You don't have to be "God's right hand angel that's a virgin to wrong-doing" to know a thing or two. Let me add a little of my story to this argument.

It reminds me of my brother (not black, by the way). He has done so much wrong to me, my parents, everyone around us, but my dysfuctional parents make excuses for him. I'm held up to a different standard, however. He's the favored firstborn... wreckless, abusive and selfish. And I'm the quiet, unwanted secondborn that avoided doing things wrong because I hated myself and wanted to be liked by my parents. So of course I have hatred for him and my parents.

But what really hits this point home is his whole gansta-rap lifestyle. He calls himself a pimp, listens to underground rap, dresses in all the latest urban fashions, uses all the newest speech impediment-slang fresh from the ghetto... And he's not from the ghetto. The lifestyle makes me sick, and it's not just because he's the one I see it through. As bishoptl succinctly put it, he's willfully ignorant, like his retarded lifestyle. He runs around in denial trying to be like some like rappers, but I see that he's really a loser in denial, wasting his life to get high and party. He lives with mommy and daddy with no job, while I work and live on my own. He concerns himself with intimidating people, but that facade isn't protecting anything. He's just a hallow person.

Some people may adopt parts of that lifestyle, I'm sure, and not be willfully ignorant (though as a life-long music-writer, I can't see how rap is in anyway intelligent). But that stuff (the fashion, the slang, etc.) tends to be rather interconnected to the lifestyle, and the ignorance, IMO. I like to see anyone stand up against it. To me, being black doesn't make Bill Cosby more right when he says that stuff.

One thing my brother doesn't do, because he can't, is blame white people. But I think this lifestyle is so much more widespread in the black community because of widespread racism against white people. My brother doesn't have any black friends. They're all white and one latino. That thug lifestyle is usually used, as far as I can tell, as a springboard to distance the black man from the white man. It's a very ignorance-breeding lifestyle that is perpetuated by a lot of the most 'vocal' blacks in schools and society. The intelligent black people are never nearly as heard, of course, because the ignorant keep them down.

I had a very close friend throughout school who was black, a music-player like me. Really smart, and I considered him my best friend. But he's one of the quietest people I know. I have a feeling there are a lot of people like us in the black community.
 

Meier

Member
Uhh why are you comparing Cosby's work on Fat Albert to.. now? 30 years have passed dude and the world has changed. Cosby wants black youths to continue to change with it and for the better. Racism still exists to a certain extent but kids nowadays have a LOT more opportunities than kids 30 years ago and theyre simply not taking advantage of it in his eyes.
 
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