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[ShadowRed]

Alleged bin Laden aide
arrested in Pakistan

Updated: 10:30 a.m. ET May 4, 2005ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - The man thought to be al-Qaida's operations commander, and who might know where Osama bin Laden is hiding, has been arrested in Pakistan, the government announced Wednesday.


The arrest of Abu Farraj al-Libbi, a Libyan who is also wanted in two attempts to assassinate Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf, is seen by U.S. officials as significant because of his alleged control over the daily operations of al-Qaida.

When asked whether Pakistan was close to capturing bin Laden, Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said that "this arrest gives us a lot of tips, and I can only say that our security agencies are on the right track."

U.S. officials tell NBC that Al-Libbi might know at least the general whereabouts of bin Laden because part of his responsibility was to manage the courier networks delivering messages, video and audiotapes.

$10 million reward cited
Interior Minister Aftab Khan Sherpao said the U.S. government was offering a $10 million bounty for information leading to al-Libbi’s arrest, though al-Libbi does not appear to be on the FBI’s list of the globe’s most-wanted terrorists.

Sherpao would not speculate on whether the arrest might help lead to the capture of bin Laden or his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, who have eluded a 3½-year dragnet since the Sept. 11 attacks.

“We have no information” about the al-Qaida leaders, he said. “It’s premature to say (whether al-Libbi’s arrest will help track them down), but definitely interrogation is going to take place.”

Sherpao said it was also too early to comment on whether al-Libbi might be turned over to the United States, but he stressed there were important cases pending against him in Pakistan.

Al-Qaida's number 3?
According to U.S. officials, al-Libbi is thought to have become al-Qaida's operations commander after the capture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in March 2003. Mohammed was later handed over to U.S. custody and his whereabouts are unknown.

The operations commander is thought to be third in line at al-Qaida after bin Laden and al-Zawahiri. Al-Libbi is also alleged to have earlier been Mohammed's deputy and to have had a role in planning the Sept. 11 attacks.

Al-Libbi was arrested earlier this week, Ahmed said, but he would provide no details on where al-Libbi was captured or where he is being held.

But three Pakistani intelligence sources said al-Libbi was one of two foreigners arrested Monday after a firefight on the outskirts of Mardan, 30 miles north of Peshawar, capital of the deeply conservative North West Frontier Province.

11 more arrests
One of the officials said 11 more terror suspects — including three Uzbeks, an Afghan and seven Pakistanis — were arrested before dawn Wednesday in the Bajor tribal region. The official would not say what prompted authorities to launch the raid or whether it was linked to al-Libbi’s capture.

The intelligence officials said authorities were led to al-Libbi’s hideout by a tip that foreigners had been spotted in the area. The suspect was held overnight at a military facility in Mardan, then transferred by helicopter to the capital, Islamabad, the officials said.

Al-Libbi reportedly spent time in South Waziristan, a tribal region along the border with Afghanistan that is considered a likely hideout for bin Laden. But he fled following a series of military operations in the area last year. Authorities had said privately in recent weeks that they believed they were zeroing in on his location.

Al-Libbi is accused of masterminding two bombings against Musharraf in December 2003. The military leader escaped injury but 17 others were killed in one of the attacks.

Musharraf, a key ally in the U.S.-led war on terrorism, named the Libyan as the chief suspect in the bombings against him. He was among six suspects identified as Pakistan’s “Most Wanted Terrorists” in a poster campaign last year.

In the poster, he appeared in a photo with a short beard, wearing a Western suit and tie. The other suspects were all Pakistanis, linked to Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, a Sunni Muslim militant group believed tied to al-Qaida.

Another suspect killed earlier
One of the suspects, Amjad Hussain Farooqi, was killed in a shootout with security forces in southern Pakistan in September.

Farooqi, a senior member of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, was accused of plotting the bombings against Musharraf with al-Libbi and of involvement in the kidnapping and beheading of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in Karachi in 2002.

Pakistan has arrested hundreds of terror suspects since Musharraf ended the country’s support of the Taliban regime in neighboring Afghanistan after the Sept. 11 attacks on America.

It has handed over about 700 al-Qaida suspects to the United States, including Mohammed, Sept. 11 planner Ramzi Binalshibh and al-Qaida senior operative Abu Zubaydah.

 

[xabre]

Bin Laden is dead and has been dead since 2001. While his death probably cannot be directly confirmed by the US administration, there is far more to be gained from his use as a instrument of propaganda then ever annoucing that he is, or he might be dead.

 

[Manics]

Bin Laden is dead and has been dead since 2001. While his death probably cannot be directly confirmed by the US administration, there is far more to be gained from his use as a instrument of propaganda then ever annoucing that he is, or he might be dead.

You think? What about those tape release messages he throws out with current information? I remember there was one that he mentioned the U.S. elections with Kerry etc. Are they faked?

 

[Guileless]

Bin Laden is dead and has been dead since 2001. .

Why do you think this?

 

[aoi tsuki]

Bin Laden is dead and has been dead since 2001. While his death probably cannot be directly confirmed by the US administration, there is far more to be gained from his use as a instrument of propaganda then ever annoucing that he is, or he might be dead.

It really wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Bigfonzie]

Why do you believe those tapes are real? because the media tells u so, because the goverment tells the media so....

There was a tape released days before the US elections, many feel this ONE TAPE won georgey B. the election.


Well im just pulling this out of my ass, but just shows you, DONT TRUST ANYONE, WHY SHOULD YOU?

 

[Guileless]

Did you see the Happy Days where Fonzie actively campaigned for Eisenhower, while Richie was a Stevenson man? Fonzie trusted the government.

 

[Manics]

Well im just pulling this out of my ass, but just shows you, DONT TRUST ANYONE, WHY SHOULD YOU?

OK...I don't trust you then.

 

[xabre]

Why do people assume he is alive? Because the benevolent US government continue to pander to the assumption that he is 'in hiding', all the while stringing along the joe/jane citizen sheep who are constantly coached to believe that the evil dark terror lord is ready to strike them with all sorts of nasty shit at any moment? In all honestly, the last we saw of Bin Ladan (October 2001 IIRC) the guy was in a pretty shitty state medically. He looked frail, fatigued, weak and altogether very ill. Bin Laden's kidneys were fucked basically and was in need of urgent dialysis, now unless he received emergency surgery in a cave or a Pakistani hut and has been able receive constant medical treatment and supervision (despite constantly moving around to avoid capture), the chances of the guy surviving for this long are rather remote. This, and the lack of any real solid evidence that the guy is alive leads me to the conclusion that he is dead and simply lives on as a propaganda myth to galvanise public support behind the 'War on Terror'.

And what about the audio tapes those CIA type analyst experts analyse? The extent of their 'expert analysis' is to probably listen to the supposed new Bin Laden audio tape, compare it to old Bin Laden archive footage and say "Yep, sounds like the same guy", put out a PR release and watch the media fornicate all over it like clockwork. So they basically confirm jack shit (they probably fake half of the tapes themselves and the rest come from pissed off Islamists pretending to be their personal hero); the CIA is first and foremost a propaganda institution whose primary purpose is to disseminate information supportive of the interests of the elite, in this case, to perpetuate an evil terror nemesis that is ready at any moment to destroy America and the free world. The cold war legacy ought to clue people in about the sort of shit this agency has spat out over the years, coup cover-ups, missile gaps, massive soviet military build-ups, propaganda films, radio, books etc. I don't believe a word of their crud.

 

[galeninjapan]

Bin Laden is dead and has been dead since 2001. While his death probably cannot be directly confirmed by the US administration, there is far more to be gained from his use as a instrument of propaganda then ever annoucing that he is, or he might be dead.

While this wouldn't suprise me one bit, you have no proof.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

There never was a Bin Laden.


Dum Dum Dum!

 

[demon]

There never was a Bin Laden.


Dum Dum Dum!

There was never a 9/11!

Dum DUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMM

 

[xabre]

While this wouldn't suprise me one bit, you have no proof.

What about all the MIA's from WW2? No proof they're dead either but it's been 60 years and I don't think they're coming home. And, as there is no indication that they are alive this also leads me to the conclusion that they also, are dead.

 

[galeninjapan]

What about all the MIA's from WW2? No proof they're dead either but it's been 60 years and I don't think they're coming home. And, as there is no indication that they are alive this also leads me to the conclusion that they also, are dead.

Do you have a brain?

 

[xabre]

Do you have a brain?

I know I do but you sure as fuck don't.

You're here asking me to prove that the guy is dead, well you fucking prove he is alive first mr shit for brains.

 

[galeninjapan]

I know I do but you sure as fuck don't.

You're here asking me to prove that the guy is dead, well you fucking prove he is alive first mr shit for brains.

I didnt ask you to prove it. I just said you have no proof that he is dead. And there is some evidence that he is alive, but like I said, I would not be suprised that he is dead. Jeez can you even read?

 

[Sathsquatch]

I think that the government would probably actually be talking about Bin Laden fairly frequently if they were using him for propaganda reasons. As it is, they rarely mention his name in public. Its not exactly like they are constantly telling us that Bin Laden, specifically, is a threat to Americans. In fact, they typically downplay his significance to Al Qaeda.

If anything, Bin Laden's continued survival undermines American authority. If he at least died of medical reasons, it could be seen that forcing him underground denied him medical treatment that could have saved his life. As things stand, he's a reminder that even the US is far from omnipotent and can still have enemies that it can't easily crush.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Wouldn't the fact that Bin Laden is dead prove to be a big PR Boon for the Administration? Knowing that he is dead, and yet faking that he is still alive, does serve a purpose, but they could easily transfer the fear of Bin Laden on to someone else. (Kim Jong Ill? (Sp?)) I think the Bush Admin would gain far more out of him dead then keeping him alive. Especially in the days leading up to the election. A fake tape may have given them a boost to win the election. A real body would have surely given them a boost to win the election.

 

[Xenon]

Wait weren't they going to "stage" his capture before the election?

 

[Guileless]

So you're making an assumption that reinforces your political beliefs. Not exactly convincing.
I bet you saw that BBC documentary right?

Last time I checked, we don't live in an Orwell novel. When they come to install a Big Brother screen at my house I'll consider the possibility that the entire government is consciously lying about this for mind control purposes. Until then, I'm not going to believe in conspiracy theories that are not grounded in any actual evidence.

 

[xabre]

I didnt ask you to prove it. I just said you have no proof that he is dead.

This was implied.

And there is some evidence that he is alive

Which is?

but like I said, I would not be surprised that he is dead.

I thought you said there was evidence he was alive? Galenin the contradiction king.

Jeez can you even read?

Yes I can read, because if I couldn't read I wouldn't be replying to your shitty disrespectful posts would I?

 

[galeninjapan]

This was implied.

No it wasnt.

Which is?

Audio tapes from last year. While the tapes could be forged, I think CNN said they were probably not. Thus, this is likely evidence he is alive.

I thought you said there was evidence he was alive? Galenin the contradiction king.

It is possible to believe one thing, but also know that something else is possible. It's called being open-minded.

 

[xabre]

So you're making an assumption that reinforces your political beliefs. Not exactly convincing.
I bet you saw that BBC documentary right?

Power of Nightmares? Yes I did. I bet you dismissed it off hand without any question right? To scared to challenge your own beliefs as they might conflict with your good vs evil back and white view of the world.

Until then, I'm not going to believe in conspiracy theories that are not grounded in any actual evidence.

I see, so to suggest that an intelligence agency, created for the sole purpose of information dissemination with a long history of coups and state sponsored terrorism (look it up, google it) as well as vast networks of propaganda throughout various forms of media from radio to tv, movies to literature, seminars to funded think-tanks, would spread information to manipulate the media and public opinion is somehow a conspiracy theory to you? That you question whether intelligence agencies, including such agencies in democratic countries have such a role and dismiss it as a conspiracy is completely absurd.

 

[xabre]

Audio tapes from last year. While the tapes could be forged, I think CNN said they were probably not. Thus, this is likely evidence he is alive.

So a Bin Ladin tape is authentic because CNN said so? Wow. What did Fox News say?

It is possible to believe one thing, but also know that something else is possible. It's called being open-minded.

Then obviously this so called evidence is not very water-tight is it?

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I see, so to suggest that an intelligence agency, created for the sole purpose of information dissemination with a long history of coups and state sponsored terrorism (look it up, google it) as well as vast networks of propaganda throughout various forms of media from radio to tv, movies to literature, seminars to funded think-tanks, would spread information to manipulate the media and public opinion is somehow a conspiracy theory to you? .

hmmmmm

 

[whytemyke]

only way they're gonna get answers is torture.

i feel like watching The Seige.

 

[human5892]

I think that the government would probably actually be talking about Bin Laden fairly frequently if they were using him for propaganda reasons. As it is, they rarely mention his name in public. Its not exactly like they are constantly telling us that Bin Laden, specifically, is a threat to Americans. In fact, they typically downplay his significance to Al Qaeda.

If anything, Bin Laden's continued survival undermines American authority. If he at least died of medical reasons, it could be seen that forcing him underground denied him medical treatment that could have saved his life. As things stand, he's a reminder that even the US is far from omnipotent and can still have enemies that it can't easily crush.

Wouldn't the fact that Bin Laden is dead prove to be a big PR Boon for the Administration? Knowing that he is dead, and yet faking that he is still alive, does serve a purpose, but they could easily transfer the fear of Bin Laden on to someone else. (Kim Jong Ill? (Sp?)) I think the Bush Admin would gain far more out of him dead then keeping him alive. Especially in the days leading up to the election. A fake tape may have given them a boost to win the election. A real body would have surely given them a boost to win the election.

Call me crazy, but these seem like far more reasonable explanations than a conspiracy theory about a man who routinely releases new media and whose capture would be considered a great boon to the current administration still being alive.

 

[Guileless]

The CIA was not created for "information dissemination" in the Untited States. It was created to gather intelligence abroad. Its domestic role is clearly limited by federal law and the jurisdiction of the FBI.

What are the CIA's "vast networks of propaganda throughout various forms of media from radio to tv, movies to literature?" What are some examples of this propoganda in action? And I'm not talking about a link to a website that claims that if you play "Weekend at Bernie's" backwards Jonathan Silverman tells you to vote Republican or brown people will blow you up.

It's a "conspiracy theory" until you cite me credible evidence of the CIA manipulating domestic public opinion through one of its myriad propaganda organs. Hell you're convinced so there must be a good reason right? What is it?

 

[CloudNL]

I think 24's Marwan is based on Bin Laden.
Bin Laden escapes all the time, just like Marwan. And Marwan made a videotape just like Bin Laden did a couple of times.

 

[acoustix]

Not many people living in this country have the information neccesary to say wheather Bin Laden is dead or alive, however...

I think that if Bin Landen was dead we would know about it. The Bush Administrations #1 failure was letting him get away, and they have recieved relentless criticizem to that end. The republican party has to milk even the most inconsequential successes in the war and if they had any kind of evidence he was dead they would annoucnce it. The entire point of invaiding another country post 9/11 was to find Osama Bin Laden. Bush made promises to victims families that he would find and him and bring him to justice and he has not.

 

[Incognito]

only way they're gonna get answers is torture.

i feel like watching The Seige.

:lol :lol

Besides the martial law segments of the movie, it's amazing how prescient the movie is regarding today's CULTURE OF TERRRRORISM!!1

 

[Pimpwerx]

I thought there was a report on the BBC just like Monday or so where a US military guy said that it's likely that Bin Laden is long gone, and probably hiding out somewhere in Pakistan. Almost captured my ass. PEACE.

 

[Pimpwerx]

:lol :lol

Besides the martial law segments of the movie, it's amazing how prescient the movie is regarding today's CULTURE OF TERRRRORISM!!1

Dude, I said this righter after 9/11. Everyone was all apeshit at the time, and muslims were quickly being targeted, and I was like, this is gonna turn into The Seige. Well, it's happened, just that the internment camps are over in Iraq and Afghanistan and Gitmo. PEACE.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Not many people living in this country have the information neccesary to say wheather Bin Laden is dead or alive, however...

I think that if Bin Landen was dead we would know about it. The Bush Administrations #1 failure was letting him get away, and they have recieved relentless criticizem to that end. The republican party has to milk even the most inconsequential successes in the war and if they had any kind of evidence he was dead they would annoucnce it. The entire point of invaiding another country post 9/11 was to find Osama Bin Laden. Bush made promises to victims families that he would find and him and bring him to justice and he has not.

Not sure that I would call this the Adminstrations #1 failure. Yes, there was probably an opportunity to at least attempt to grab him early on, but we were not really geared up to make a big push to do so.

In contrast, Clinton had the ability to take Bin Laden out, and decided against it. At the time, they had him in their sites and could have killed him, but didn't, and it came back to bite Clinton in the ass too with the Cole bombing. He then made the attempt to get him again by lobbing some cruise missiles at terrorist camps, but Bin Laden wasn't there any longer.

Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's easy to critisize these presidents for the choices they made. Some people have said that if Clinton had killed Bin Laden when they had the chance, there would not have been a 9/11. I disagree with that. Bin Laden is obviously a major player in Al Queda, but there are others to take his place, and the planning was there with or without Bin Laden. He's an important figurehead for the terrorist groups, and obviously his cash helps fund them, but I'm not sure that killing him would have prevented 9/11.

 

[kurisu]

The CIA was not created for "information dissemination" in the Untited States. It was created to gather intelligence abroad. Its domestic role is clearly limited by federal law and the jurisdiction of the FBI.

What are the CIA's "vast networks of propaganda throughout various forms of media from radio to tv, movies to literature?" What are some examples of this propoganda in action? And I'm not talking about a link to a website that claims that if you play "Weekend at Bernie's" backwards Jonathan Silverman tells you to vote Republican or brown people will blow you up.

It's a "conspiracy theory" until you cite me credible evidence of the CIA manipulating domestic public opinion through one of its myriad propaganda organs. Hell you're convinced so there must be a good reason right? What is it?

Not to stir the pot, but the CIA has used various forms of media to spread propaganda for American interests (corporations, administraitions, etc.)

The documentation that has been recovered under the Freedom of Information Act regarding the Chilean coup of the early 1970's shows that the CIA planted articles and editorials, both in the US and abroad, in an attempt to plant the belief that the democratically-elected marxist president of Chile was a brutal dictator, and that after the coup, general Pinochet's Chile was all sunshine and flowers, meanwhile thousands of civilians were being executed in the national stadium. (Wow, that was a run-on sentence!)

Read more about it here: CIA-Chile Coup Documents

Point is, the CIA has indeed used media to disseminate propaganda, here and abroad, for US "interests." Their history is controversial enough to believe that ongoing propaganda may be occurring. Hey, this administration is compared to Nixon's pretty often.

EDIT: Here's another link detailing the events: The Chile Coup: The US Hand

 

[acoustix]

Not sure that I would call this the Adminstrations #1 failure. Yes, there was probably an opportunity to at least attempt to grab him early on, but we were not really geared up to make a big push to do so.

I defenitely think the Bush Administration has made bigger failures recently when it comes to Iraq, foriegn trade negociations, social security, economy, etc, but I contend that had Bin Laden been captured early on, alot of the domino effects from the slacking economy couldve been avoided. Hindsight IS 20/20 but these concepts hold alot of weight when you look at trends in almost every economic catagory post 9/11.

In contrast, Clinton had the ability to take Bin Laden out, and decided against it. At the time, they had him in their sites and could have killed him, but didn't, and it came back to bite Clinton in the ass too with the Cole bombing. He then made the attempt to get him again by lobbing some cruise missiles at terrorist camps, but Bin Laden wasn't there any longer.

I agree that Clinton had his chance and let it go, but two wrongs dont make a right.

Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's easy to critisize these presidents for the choices they made. Some people have said that if Clinton had killed Bin Laden when they had the chance, there would not have been a 9/11. I disagree with that. Bin Laden is obviously a major player in Al Queda, but there are others to take his place, and the planning was there with or without Bin Laden. He's an important figurehead for the terrorist groups, and obviously his cash helps fund them, but I'm not sure that killing him would have prevented 9/11.

Well, I never said killing him wouldve prevented 9/11, I just feel that the Bush Administration mislead the American people by saying they wanted Bin Laden. Its hard to deny that Bin Laden was (and possibly still is) a major funder of terrorism and a significant inspiration to many terrorists. Had he been killed it would have no doubt taken some of the thunder out of his supporters.

 

[Guileless]

Yes, I know the CIA did unsavory things in the name of Cold War realpolitik. And it still does unsavory, quasi-legal things when it thinks it can get away with it.

I'm looking for a reason to believe that the CIA is orchestrating a vast coverup of bin Laden's death in an effort to control the minds of the US population, which is what xabre is asserting. If this is the best you've got, I'm going to have to stay in the unconvined camp. I can't make that logical leap based solely on a South American coup that happened in the 70s.

 

[bionic77]

Bin Laden has been living in the US for the past 5 years pretending to be a quarterback of an NFL team.

v.

The resemblance is eerie.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

acoustix: I didn't mean to imply that you had even hinted at the fact that 9/11 wouldn't have occurred if Bin Laden was killed. I just meant that I heard a lot of people saying stuff like that when the reports came out about Clinton not ordering the trigger to be pulled when they had the guy in their sights. That's all.

Both Administrations made mistakes. Clinton had the better chance to take him out, but didn't have any clue that 9/11 would occur, so he let him go, believing it wasn't a good idea to stir up the hornet's nest, nor use assasination as a form of policy. The Bush administration drug it's feet for too long before going into Afghanistan. We should have had some special forces troops on the ground ASAP to get that bastard. The excuse was that we didn't want to disrupt the sovreignty of Afghanistan and that we didn't have the troops in position at the time, both of which are a load of crap. Clearly sovreignty wasn't on our minds when we invaded Afghanistan, nor Iraq, later on. And spec op forces are designed to drop in to a country, work independently, and handle covert ops like an assasination or capture.

As we both said, hindsight is 20/20 and there is plenty of blame to go around. I certainly wasn't saying that two wrongs made a right either, just saying that this guy has escaped us for years, and we've had chance before that we didn't take advantage of.

 

[kurisu]

Yes, I know the CIA did unsavory things in the name of Cold War realpolitik. And it still does unsavory, quasi-legal things when it thinks it can get away with it.

I'm looking for a reason to believe that the CIA is orchestrating a vast coverup of bin Laden's death in an effort to control the minds of the US population, which is what xabre is asserting. If this is the best you've got, I'm going to have to stay in the unconvined camp. I can't make that logical leap based solely on a South American coup that happened in the 70s.

Quasi-legal bordering on Legion-of-Doom-evil, in my opinion.

You asked for evidence that the CIA has used media forms to spread propaganda, and I gave you that. The CIA has been implicated, if not directly linked, to coup attempts and other occurrences of civil unrest throughout South America and throughout the world, from the 1960's onward.

I'm not asking you to believe that Bin Laden is dead and that his continued existence is a lie. I don't believe that. I'm just saying that, given the organization's history, it doesn't take a leap of faith to believe that such things may still go on. Funny thing is, there are similarities between the Cold War-era mindset and the War on Terror-era mindset. In both we had, for all intents and purposes, a real enemy, percieved by the public at large as a nebulous threat to their safety. If we can attribute CIA propaganda to the spread and continuance of fear during the Cold War, here and abroad, and we see similar symptoms today, is it not possible that the propaganda machine is at work today as well?

 

[acoustix]

acoustix: I didn't mean to imply that you had even hinted at the fact that 9/11 wouldn't have occurred if Bin Laden was killed. I just meant that I heard a lot of people saying stuff like that when the reports came out about Clinton not ordering the trigger to be pulled when they had the guy in their sights. That's all.

Fair enough.

Both Administrations made mistakes. Clinton had the better chance to take him out, but didn't have any clue that 9/11 would occur, so he let him go, believing it wasn't a good idea to stir up the hornet's nest, nor use assasination as a form of policy. The Bush administration drug it's feet for too long before going into Afghanistan. We should have had some special forces troops on the ground ASAP to get that bastard. The excuse was that we didn't want to disrupt the sovreignty of Afghanistan and that we didn't have the troops in position at the time, both of which are a load of crap. Clearly sovreignty wasn't on our minds when we invaded Afghanistan, nor Iraq, later on. And spec op forces are designed to drop in to a country, work independently, and handle covert ops like an assasination or capture.

Agreed, although given the nature of special op missions its hard to know exactly what went down.

As we both said, hindsight is 20/20 and there is plenty of blame to go around. I certainly wasn't saying that two wrongs made a right either, just saying that this guy has escaped us for years, and we've had chance before that we didn't take advantage of.

Heh, didnt mean to imply that you were sayin that either. Anyway, I'll be surprised if we ever catch this bastard. My guess is if he does get caught it'll be by some means of insider betrayel.

 

[Raw64life]

You think? What about those tape release messages he throws out with current information? I remember there was one that he mentioned the U.S. elections with Kerry etc. Are they faked?

By this logic, 2pac is also still alive.

 

[Guileless]

Planting newspaper articles about coups in faraway countries is not what xabre was talking about. He was talking about an Orwellian organization lying about an issue of vital national interest in order to control the minds of the population at large. Therein lies the leap of faith.

The CIA planted articles in order to influence the understanding of events on Cold War fronts and counter Pravda. That doesn't make me believe that today, in 2005, the CIA is actively lying about the status of bin Laden in order to gain control of my mind and make me "scared." I can't believe that without some actual evidence.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

My guess is if he does get caught it'll be by some means of insider betrayel.

Yeah, I agree with you there. That's why we upped the bounty to $50 million recently. BTW, anyone see the report recently about the US ambassador to Pakistan not distributing materials to the population that would help to rat out Bin Laden? Apparently, we made up fliers, match books, etc that had info about Bin Laden, what the reward was, and who to contact to turn him in. Boxes and boxes of the crap was just sitting in a store room until recently. Someone from the Dept. of Homeland Security went to Pakistan to co-ordinate the info on the increase in the reward, and found out the stuff was just sitting around, and never distributed. It has been sitting there for two or three years. That doesn't help the effort either.

 

[King Jippo]

BTW, anyone see the report recently about the US ambassador to Pakistan not distributing materials to the population that would help to rat out Bin Laden?

Got a link to this story/report? Its not that I dont believe you, just wanted to read it in its entirety.

Anyway, the CIA has had its hands in a lot of shit that blew up in their faces or came back to bite them in the ass. And because of their past f-ups they faced hearings in the 70's & 80's that basically crippled them from getting anything effectively done about Bin Laden in the 90's.

What gets me all the time though is people who think the CIA is this monolithic, invincible force that controls the entire world like its a walk in the park. I've heard stupid shit along the lines of "Bin Laden is only alive because the US/CIA wants him to be" which is the lazy man's expression for "I have no idea what the fuck I am talking about but Bush is evil and the CIA can do anything so there must be a reason why this guy is still alive". There is a lot more to the situation than the gross oversimplification some people seem so intent of keeping.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Got a link to this story/report? Its not that I dont believe you, just wanted to read it in its entirety.

I first saw the report on CNN or Fox News some weeks ago. But a quick google seach turned up this.

Interesting read to be sure.

 

[tsp_gatmog]

Do you have a brain?

Says the man with a cartoon character with a dildo strapped to his head.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

^^^ I noticed that too.

Bin Laden is probably dead and buried. I doubt it was 2001 but maybe 2002 or 2003. He would have to constantly be on the run and with shitty health, I don't see how he could be alive.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

I say they up the reward to 1 billion dollars and see what happens.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I know I do but you sure as fuck don't.

You're here asking me to prove that the guy is dead, well you fucking prove he is alive first mr shit for brains.

Great Truth™: Question Authority....but have the correct answer already.