Stop with the reasonable post, we need more baseless anger over this.
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Bioware fire-fighting reactions to SWtOR's 'gay ghetto' planet
- Thread starter nickcv
- Start date
Weltall Zero
Member
You could romance Liara as FemShep in ME1, though. Not like it had a whole lot of special dialogue or anything...
I kind of feel bad for BioWare, though. They've done what they think is right (to provide gay players with same-sex options) with the limited resources they had (a game pretty obviously developed around strictly heterosexual romance, probably because of the assumption that its general audience doesn't care about gay relationships), managing to enrage both gay players and anti-gay rights zealots. You can't please them all, but this time they've managed to piss them all off.
I personally think that this could be handled as easily as in real life. Is your world shattered when someone the same sex as you makes a pass at you? You simply decline like an adult person and that's all. Why can't we have the same thing in games? If you as a player decline a pass by a same-sex character, it doesn't go further. I guess that homophobic people just loathe the idea of homosexuality so much that they want erase the slightest hint that it exists from every single piece of entertainment, since they can't erase it from the real world? Do they put the same energy into deleting every gay character from every movie and TV series ever? Seems like an awfully painful and denialist existence. :S
Neuromancer
Member
Haha
i think we all know that, the real story here for me is how could the EA PR department don't see this one coming.
we do know how game development works, what are MMO expansions, but the general public and the general press is going to see this as segregation, discrimination, etc
They probably thought that people would read their earlier announcement. I guess that's expecting too much from the gaming community, though.
Indeed.
However, there are people in this very thread that don't seem to acknowledge how much of a clusterfuck programing story content for TOR is and seriously believe Bioware is being shady. I posted that as, since this is NeoGAF, I would hope it would be read and a few of those people who are displeased would calm their irritation a bit.
But, yes, Bioware/EA didn't do a good job of rolling this out. In my opinion, it really shouldn't have even been rolled out if you will. Just throw the gay guy/girl in there and have people run into them.
Weak deflection.
i'll help you out and add your post to the OP
anyhow if informed gamers like us don't get why this is happening what chances do we have with the general public and press?
imho they should have waited for some bigger expansion to bring the new service to more planets at the same time, so even who doesn't read/care about this thing couldn't find some way to misunderstand it
As I recall, they have been promising SGR for a while now. In fact, they missed their original target date for adding them when they realized how much work they'd be. So they felt it was more important to add them as soon as possible rather than as wide as possible.
jediyoshi
Member
Pretty sure there are people in this thread who don't even realize how romances in the game work that are throwing out their opinion. People may as well be under the impression they can romance other players but can only do sgr on this single planet.
Excuse me?
Reading comprehension: question =/= comparison.
Oops, I assumed you were trying to make a point and not just asking a genuine question.
I interpret your comment as, complaints are because they aren't gay. Correct me if I'm wrong.
TheContact
Member
good idea but stupid implementation, it should be able to happen everywhere or nowhere at all
No. I'm talking about the people who are complaining about SWTOR being infected with "the gay" and destroying family values, etc.
They wanted to add it to the game. Their options were:
(a) Satisfy people who were asking for the option in a new part of the game or
(b) Not adding it and not satisfying those same customers, also raising questions as to why other BW games have gays but not this one
Bioware has been pretty big, as of late, on making your PC able to get the sexing in a way that makes little sense, gender and species be damned. Some people were, I would say rightfully, a little perplexed when there was no same sex options in the entity of the game, despite the number of companions between the classes. Hell there's even a character who is probably bisexual, given her quests, in the agent story line that you cannot pursue as a female PC. This does not make sense.
This is, honestly, the best way they can implement the "feature" (not really a feature, but you get what I'm saying) in a timely (read: ASAP) fashion. Start making an effort to integrate homosexuality with new content that can be pursued if desired or ignored if not. Then, in the future, make an effort to continue that trend. Going back is, simply, not a realistic options for reasons I listed in a previous post.
Weltall Zero
Member
Can't speak for the others, but there's exactly the same amount of same gender romance options than opposite gender romance options in GW2. That is to say, zero.
GW2 doesn't really feature romance in its personal story. That said, there is some slightly platonic subtext with your character and the hero that represents your faction (or perhaps I only inferred it), which indeed is the exact same if both are the same gender (which was the case with my female Norn and Eir, the Norn representative). On the other hand, the entire Sylvari race are presented to be inherently bisexual (if the term even applies), in that gender is pretty much a cosmetic difference for them (as they are made to resemble humanoids). They can and sometimes do form romantic relationships with other races, too.
There are apparently homosexual NPC couples as well, although the game is generally rather subdued with romantic relationships in general and there is discussion about whether some of them qualify or not; see for example this discussion:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/races/charr/Charr-Sexuality-Customs
Teletraan1
Banned
People segregate themselves from my perspective. Look at the city of Toronto. Often touted for being a multicultural city. Yet most cultures, races, sexual preference tend to segregate themselves into pockets of large communities within the city. You know exactly which community you have wandered into just by observing the people around you where they will be predominately <Insert Community Here>. Store signs are all in that communities native language. Not exactly inviting. Why would star wars be any different but on a planetary basis?
I know people like to dream of some world with every race holding hands singing one song but the reality is that people are creatures of familiarity, people want to live in an area that they can get their own cuisine and who wants to be the only gay person living on Hoth.
I know people like to dream of some world with every race holding hands singing one song but the reality is that people are creatures of familiarity, people want to live in an area that they can get their own cuisine and who wants to be the only gay person living on Hoth.
Quicksilver4648
Member
Is this for real? Because Star Wars is a family based story it means gay marriage shouldn't be included... because I am assume gay people are anti-family?
MeBecomingI
Member
Ugh, segregation? I don't even. The reactions to this are absolutely ridiculous, both in this thread and even the media. I just don't understand it...
Sure, Bioware and EA have made some poor decisions regarding The Old Republic but it seems like no matter the situation, even if it was simply good vs good, people would find some matter to be outraged at Bioware over.
Yeah, you have to pay for the expansion to have access to the option of SGR on Mekeb but at least it is starting somewhere. I can understand the amount of effort it would take Bioware to retrofit the entire game with the option and that the best route to take would be to start with the new planet. A whole new planet is a pretty significant avenue for them to start because of the sheer scope of the project. Additionally, now that they have introduced SGR to the game, it'll create a precedent that everything from this point forward should have the option of SGR, so it'll likely off-shoot into the rest of their content patches and expansions.
I'm glad to support Bioware in their effort to introduce the option of SGR. I hope the critics don't get the best of them and they pull it now. However, I wouldn't mind them release a press release that absolutely slams the critics and places like Fox News and gamesindustry.biz for propagating the whole segregation and "gay planet" bullshit. I'm happy they are introducing more content for the expansion. Makes the purchase more worth it.
Sure, Bioware and EA have made some poor decisions regarding The Old Republic but it seems like no matter the situation, even if it was simply good vs good, people would find some matter to be outraged at Bioware over.
Yeah, you have to pay for the expansion to have access to the option of SGR on Mekeb but at least it is starting somewhere. I can understand the amount of effort it would take Bioware to retrofit the entire game with the option and that the best route to take would be to start with the new planet. A whole new planet is a pretty significant avenue for them to start because of the sheer scope of the project. Additionally, now that they have introduced SGR to the game, it'll create a precedent that everything from this point forward should have the option of SGR, so it'll likely off-shoot into the rest of their content patches and expansions.
I'm glad to support Bioware in their effort to introduce the option of SGR. I hope the critics don't get the best of them and they pull it now. However, I wouldn't mind them release a press release that absolutely slams the critics and places like Fox News and gamesindustry.biz for propagating the whole segregation and "gay planet" bullshit. I'm happy they are introducing more content for the expansion. Makes the purchase more worth it.
Honestly I find it pretty hard to find any fault with Bioware's attitude towards LGBT relationships. They've been the ones really pushing forward with this and I can't think of many other studios pushing the issue as hard as they have.
Sure, there have been huge issues with the way TOR has gone F2P and this is just another one of them. It's clearly not an issue with homophobia or anything like that and it's pretty obtuse that people are suggesting otherwise.
Sure, there have been huge issues with the way TOR has gone F2P and this is just another one of them. It's clearly not an issue with homophobia or anything like that and it's pretty obtuse that people are suggesting otherwise.
Interfectum
Member
Same for ME3: I thought they way they handled Kaidan was awful for my story. I gave him a single compliment and he wanted to sex me. I didn't fit where we stood at all in terms of 99% of our other conversations. Christ I think everyone on my ship wanted to fuck me besides Garrius towards the end of the game. It gets really annoying.
Bioware needs to stop their obsession with "sexual relationships in games." It's mechanically obvious and awkwardly written 99% of the time.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Anybody familiar with how MMO content is rolled out most of the time shouldn't be batting an eye at this, much less deciding that they're doing this just because of SGR.
This is how new content is almost always rolled out, regardless of what it is. They don't go back and add one or two mobs to each zone as an expansion, who would pay for that? They add entirely new zones with new encounters.
I'm getting fed up with people looking for what isn't there, finding it anyway, and then attempting to raise hell about it. If the best use of your time is searching for and ultimately creating something to be offended about you need to take a long, hard look at your priorities.
This is how new content is almost always rolled out, regardless of what it is. They don't go back and add one or two mobs to each zone as an expansion, who would pay for that? They add entirely new zones with new encounters.
I'm getting fed up with people looking for what isn't there, finding it anyway, and then attempting to raise hell about it. If the best use of your time is searching for and ultimately creating something to be offended about you need to take a long, hard look at your priorities.
The Bioware 'fans' who are upset about gay relationships being in games period.
Aquamarine
Member
That's why it's not a good idea to put these things in the first place.
Even if people are asking for it, it has to be perfect and massive, otherwise such backlash is guaranteed.
And I don't mean gay relationships only. It's hard to find an interesting well-written romance in a movie built around it, let alone (Bioware) videogames.
Even if people are asking for it, it has to be perfect and massive, otherwise such backlash is guaranteed.
And I don't mean gay relationships only. It's hard to find an interesting well-written romance in a movie built around it, let alone (Bioware) videogames.
oh good lord
they aren't "segregating" gay relationships onto this one planet. It's the planet that they're adding in the expansion pack. That is where all the new, added content is. They are, for the first time, allowing same sex relationships with NPCs, which they are placing with the rest of the new content. They're adding it into the game going forward.
Somehow this gets twisted into a "gay ghetto"?
they aren't "segregating" gay relationships onto this one planet. It's the planet that they're adding in the expansion pack. That is where all the new, added content is. They are, for the first time, allowing same sex relationships with NPCs, which they are placing with the rest of the new content. They're adding it into the game going forward.
Somehow this gets twisted into a "gay ghetto"?
Cortez?
Lots of people like being reactionary idiots.
Why are you trying to bring something silly like "logic" into this argument?
Theres only one language spoken here and thats blind hatred.
Eh... playing ME3 as male Shep, whenever i was talking to Cortez and he was "I don't know how i can go on with my life because of what happened with my dead husband *cry*"... my choices were something like "I'm here for you." or "Get over it."
Now, i wanted to comfort the poor guy without flirting with him, but knowing the usual approach of Bioware with their romances, i had to tell him to get over it. =/ This is the kind of dialogue where a neutral option would have been nice Bioware!
Interfectum
Member
Yup the same thing happened to me. I really liked Cortez as a character but I knew if I was too "nice" to him the Bioware mechanic would trigger a sexual relationship response.
balladofwindfishes
Member
how hard would it have been to retrofit one or two original NPCs with dialog for bi relations? Maybe not the entire game, but this would iron out the obvious image problem of a single planet having gay relationships. I honestly don't know, I've never really paid attention to this game.
There are things they could have done. I don't accept "well it's too expensive" well too bad. How expensive is this PR problem you got now, eh?
Going back and redoing dialog for one or two old characters wouldn't have broken the bank. I don't understand the "all or nothing" aspect of it, in real life not everyone is bisexual... do what you need to do to fix the image and help PR. Anyone with a brain could have seen this controversy from a mile away, and they could have planned better for it or thought of solutions on how to smooth it out.
There are things they could have done. I don't accept "well it's too expensive" well too bad. How expensive is this PR problem you got now, eh?
Going back and redoing dialog for one or two old characters wouldn't have broken the bank. I don't understand the "all or nothing" aspect of it, in real life not everyone is bisexual... do what you need to do to fix the image and help PR. Anyone with a brain could have seen this controversy from a mile away, and they could have planned better for it or thought of solutions on how to smooth it out.
Why couldn't you choose "I'm here for you"? That doesn't sound flirty to me at all. I don't know what happens after you choose that option, but presented with those options, I wouldn't suddenly think that I'm being forced into a relationship or something. Also, even BioWare games tend to have fairly obvious trigger options for relationships.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Made me laugh.
Actually, if I remember correctly, it didnt do that, at most I think he invited you to hang out at the bar, as friends and then he talks about all the things he likes at the bar, and then you can subtly(somewhat) express if you are gay or not.
The initial game did, and it's not like it's making a ton of money now.
I dunno, i just didn't trust their romance system.
But maybe you're right, even if i always choose the renegade option with him, when i eventually see him at the Citadel's bar, i still have the option to tell him how sexy i am or some shit like that. :lol
It's not just adding dialogue.
They would have to completely redo the entire interaction tree for these characters. Then, there's the fact that the redo would impact people who have already played through those compactions social interactions. Then, there's picking who's a gay/bi and who's not going to be a gay/bi and how that impacts the current straight options. Then, there's the full voice acting each of these characters along with animations. Clusterfuck.
The game really did a lot of cool things when it comes to individual story lines and making the game feel cinematic. However, it's set up more as a single player experience rather than an MMO due to the incredible difficulty in adding content to what's already been created, and of course making more unique content.
I don't think people realize just how much money this game cost.