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Blu Ray Worst Case Scenario

S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
The incredible shrinking technology.

Caveat: Same arguments apply to HD DVD for the most part.



1. Blu Ray plays HD content through your HDTV!

Um. If you have an HDTV. Most people don’t. And only if you have HDMI – most HDTVs don’t.

2. Blu Ray recorders record HDTV!
Um, they won’t record most movies in HD, thanks to HDCP. Same goes for cool TV shows like Lost, where they want you to buy the disc set. Maybe Leno and the local news?

3. Blu Ray games will hold more content.
That one is true. Most games will continue to be on DVD though.




Lesson: Both formats are doomed clusterfucks unless they relax HDCP and absolutely allow playback through component. /rant.


Please tell me I'm wrong. because I WANT to be wrong. I need HD content, badly.
 
Wait a sec, you work for Sony, don't you? Just get one of their TVs on discount!























Just buy a TV with HDMI like the rest of us man :P


Anyways, you can play BR discs through component. It's just that you won't get full resolution, but you will get some small increase over 480p (if I remember correctly, 560p).
 
Marconelly said:
Wait a sec, you work for Sony, don't you? Just get one of their TVs on discount!
Click to expand...


480p on almost every set. And I don't WANT 480p. I fucking HAVE 480p already. It's called DVD progressive scan. /rage
 
I don't think either one is going to prevent playback through analog connections period, it just won't allow you to playback full resolution 720p or 1080p HiDef through component - probably restrict it to 480p or 525p or something.
 
teiresias said:
I don't think either one is going to prevent playback through analog connections period, it just won't allow you to playback full resolution 720p or 1080p HiDef through component - probably restrict it to 480p or 525p or something.
Click to expand...

Then the point of the technology would be what exactly?
 
urk said:
It has DVI instead.
Click to expand...


Ja. You can buy a $15 HDMI to DVI cable. Worked for my HD Sat box. Remains to be seen if it will work for Blu Ray. I'm not sure that model has HDCP, or if it's a flavor of HDCP Blu Ray will like.


Again. A Blu Ray player playing back at 480p through component IS FUCKING STUPID><><<<<<>>>>>So don't use that argument again please.
 
960x540p is the max resolution thru analog apparently at this time which is a SIGNIFICANT improvement over DVD :) Even 480p downres would look alot better than DVD.

still, bluray/hd-dvd is prettymuch a clusterflock for joe-six-pack and mass-market as they will learn soon enough.
 
Yann said:
What about hd-dvd? Do you need HDMI to or can you use DVI directly or just component?
Click to expand...

being that this is an MPAA demand, and not something sony-specific, i wouldn't be surprised if HDVD had the same restriction built in.
 
Stinkles said:
Please tell me I'm wrong. because I WANT to be wrong. I need HD content, badly.
Click to expand...
You can get ALOT of HD content today that plays over analog from many sources (cable, OTA, sat, download, etc.)
 
I was under the impression that virtually every HD set shipping these days comes with HDMI. If you're an early HDTV adopter with a non-HDMI set, chances are you can afford a new set.

Honestly, if you want to complain about Blu Ray, there are far more retarded DRM restrictions to be concerned about, starting with the inability to make managed copies and stream over a home network (which HDDVD allows) and the alleged online authentication requirement.
 
Rhindle said:
I was under the impression that virtually every HD set shipping these days comes with HDMI. If you're an early HDTV adopter with a non-HDMI set, chances are you can afford a new set.
Click to expand...

Nope. Not even close. According to HDMI forecasts, they are hoping for about 42% of the market as of 2006. I would be interested in seeing concrete numbers.
 
Rhindle said:
I was under the impression that virtually every HD set shipping these days comes with HDMI. If you're an early HDTV adopter with a non-HDMI set, chances are you can afford a new set.

Honestly, if you want to complain about Blu Ray, there are far more retarded DRM restrictions to be concerned about, starting with the inability to make managed copies and stream over a home network (which HDDVD allows) and the alleged online authentication requirement.
Click to expand...


Yep, but the ones listed above are the ones that will make Joe Public say WTF!?

Also, most HDTV sets not having HDMI is not a bunch of early adpoters anymore. It is Joe Sixpack's rumpus room TV for watching football and movies.
 
chinch said:
960x540p is the max resolution thru analog apparently at this time which is a SIGNIFICANT improvement over DVD :) Even 480p downres would look alot better than DVD.

still, bluray/hd-dvd is prettymuch a clusterflock for joe-six-pack and mass-market as they will learn soon enough.
Click to expand...

The MPAA has made it a requirement that nothing over a 480p signal gets passed over component. I don't know exactly how it's handled in Europe, but I imagine the 576p PAL signal will be the limit over SCART.

A 1080i signal downconverted to 480p will not look a lot better than a DVD. It may theoretically look marginally better, but practically, it most likely won't.
 
im sure there will be some sort of converter for us early adopter component folk..
if not ill start reading books again.. at least publishers cant fuck me over like that
 
We were having this discussion about HDMI saturation in one of the HDTV threads right about the time the 360 kiosks were hitting Wally World so I checked out there stock of HDTV's.

Of six HDTV televisions that Wal-Mart sells, only one had HDMI input. Of course, they still had close to triple the number of standard definition televisions as well.

Basically, if you know your shit, and plan on making your set purchase in the near future, you should be good to go.

If you picked up a set already, or find yourself picking up your major electronics at Wal-Mart, then you just might be fucked.
 
Error Macro said:
The MPAA has made it a requirement that nothing over a 480p signal gets passed over component. I don't know exactly how it's handled in Europe, but I imagine the 576p PAL signal will be the limit over SCART.

A 1080i signal downconverted to 480p will not look a lot better than a DVD. It may theoretically look marginally better, but practically, it most likely won't.
Click to expand...
Nope. Those numbers came from a Microsoft VP at AVS.

Notice is sad "at this time" and "max". Nothing is set in stone and it seems studios *might* be able to lower it (ie. some jerky studio like Fox limiting it to 720x480p).
 
chinch said:
Nope. Those numbers came from a Microsoft VP at AVS.

Notice is sad "at this time" and "max". Nothing is set in stone and it seems studios *might* be able to lower it (ie. some jerky studio like Fox limiting it to 720x480p).
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that information was included in legislation the MPAA/FCC was trying to pass.
 
Error Macro said:
I'm pretty sure that information was included in legislation the MPAA/FCC was trying to pass.
Click to expand...
sorry but that is wrong. :)

the avg casual HDTV owner would easily mistake 940x540p for true HDTV imho
 
I'm not sure that model has HDCP, or if it's a flavor of HDCP Blu Ray will like.
Click to expand...
I don't think there's a different flavor of HDCP for BR.

It is Joe Sixpack's rumpus room TV for watching football and movies.
Click to expand...
Joe Sixpack likely won't be an early adopter and thus would buy one of the more recent models with HDMI. Exactly which HDTVs sold now don't have HDMI?
 
So if the casual average everyday regular HDTV d00d can't tell the difference between 720p and 540p, then what incentive is there for them to pick up a Blu-Ray player?
 
urk said:
So if the casual average everyday regular HDTV d00d can't tell the difference between 720p and 540p, then what incentive is there for them to pick up a Blu-Ray player?
Click to expand...
He said he thinks it would look like HiDef to them (better than 480p)

Btw, I think the difference between the real 720p and 480p of the same footage is pretty significant. Personally I can't wait for the HD movies to start selling.
 
chinch said:
sorry but that is wrong. :)

the avg casual HDTV owner would easily mistake 940x540p for true HDTV imho
Click to expand...

So that makes it OK? FUCK that. Also, it's not true. 720p looks significantly better AND many, many TVs won't or can't display your theoretical max component resolution. I am starting to feel an Isamu-style boiling of blood.
 
urk said:
So if the casual average everyday regular HDTV d00d can't tell the difference between 720p and 540p, then what incentive is there for them to pick up a Blu-Ray player?
Click to expand...
i don't believe there is an urgent incentive (for a casual) for HD discs

BUT i'm saying 960x540p WILL look ALOT better than avg 720x480 DVDs to people with HD equipment.

Stinkles said:
So that makes it OK? FUCK that. Also, it's not true. 720p looks significantly better AND many, many TVs won't or can't display your theoretical max component resolution. I am starting to feel an Isamu-style boiling of blood.
Click to expand...
Don't shoot the messenger. I've been watching HD movies & TV for almost 2 years now and loathe DVDs. I'm just bring in a dose of reality that HD zealots (bluray or whoever) might not identify 950x540p vs 1920x540p (ie 1080i) or 1280x720p on their HDTV.

You'd be amazed how many DUMMIES think Fox 480wide is "HDTV" all summer long during baseball season. LOL.
 
urk said:
So if the casual average everyday regular HDTV d00d can't tell the difference between 720p and 540p, then what incentive is there for them to pick up a Blu-Ray player?
Click to expand...

It's still a significant upgrade from even upscaled DVD. What incentive is there for them to pick up a Blu-Ray player? To play PS3 games of course. :D
 
Its not just TV's as well.

In our family room

I have a AV reciever that I bought just last year for close to $1500 that takes in all my devices and upscales all of them so that 1 component connection is made to the TV. Of course it pushes the audio for the room as well. Makes it much easier for people to watch what they want and not to tweak the TV for what kind of signal is coming to it. Well they have only just recently starting making AV recievers with HDMI connections and last time I checked they are over $3000. Not to mention having to pull another set of cables thru the wall.

I have 3 HDTV's and only 1 accepts HDMI out of the box (The basement projection TV). For the TV in the Family room I can purchase a new plugin for it (Panasonic Plasma), but the other no luck.

To boot HDMI gives you next to no improvement over Component. Just a pain in the ass is all it gives you.
 
Here in Europe a tv cannot be defined as HD ready unless it has HDMI. I guess it was a good idea afterall.
 
I don't know if you all know yet (or if its been stated in this thread) but HDCP isn't only for HDMI. For instance, my 27" DynaFlat Samsung HDTV has only DVI ports, both of them are DVI-HDCP compliant. A common myth with Blu-Ray is that you need HDMI.
 
Error Macro said:
Okay, thanks for that link. I read a lot of posts. I traced it back to were some guy says there's a rumor that AACS will allow 960x540p analog output. It's not fact yet.

Nevermind the fact that there are probably a lot of HDTV sets that won't accept a 540p input.
Click to expand...
that guy helped author AACS. :lol

most PJs can handle 540p
 
BlueTsunami said:
I don't know if you all know yet (or if its been stated in this thread) but HDCP isn't only for HDMI. For instance, my 27" DynaFlat Samsung HDTV has only DVI ports, both of them are DVI-HDCP compliant. A common myth with Blu-Ray is that you need HDMI.
Click to expand...
HDCP can be via HDMI or DVI.

Most people associate HDCP with HDMI as DVI never made a large dent outside the PC world and DVI can be non-HDCP compliant hence the confusion.
 
BlueTsunami said:
A common myth with Blu-Ray is that you need HDMI.
Click to expand...

I think the information is fueled by the PS3's integrated player due to the HDMI-only output (as far as HDCP is concerned).

But yeah, the standard should allow for any HDCP compliant device to serve up full resolution.

Personally, I think Blu-Ray would do well to soften their stance on HDCP. They are fooling themselves if they don't think circumvention is going to be employed about a week after players start saturating the mainstream marketplace. After that, the spec only serves to limit the number of sets that can display the technology in its best form.
 
I can see Blu Ray and HD-DVD failing in the Entertainment Market. But I can see it going well in the RW market. I just hope they are reasonably priced. When do the HD-DVD/Blu Ray Hybrid ROMS come out? And god help sony if they try that rootkit shit with their disc.
 
HDCP won't broken anytime soon but IF it is then they can simply disable your player thanks to BR+.

Hurray!!!
 
Almost as useless as macrovision was to prevent people from copying DVDs to VCRs... almost
 
chinch said:
that guy helped author AACS. :lol

most PJs can handle 540p
Click to expand...

So what? That doesn't change anything. Besides, like studios are going to allow that?

I didn't say projectors, by the way. I'm talking all HD displays.
 
chinch said:
HDCP won't broken anytime soon but IF it is then they can simply disable your player thanks to BR+.
Click to expand...

Oh, that will be circumvented too. It'll add a couple of hours to the whole process though.
 
WHY IS THE MPAA BOTHERING WITH THIS USELESS BULLSHIT!? This is all just a clusterfuck of inconveniences and hassle for the average consumer and the hackers are just going to get around it in no time to pirate thier movies.

Everyone loses!
 
chinch said:
HDCP can be via HDMI or DVI.

Most people associate HDCP with HDMI as DVI never made a large dent outside the PC world and DVI can be non-HDCP compliant hence the confusion.
Click to expand...


There are "flavors" of HDCP that may not be acceptable to the code a studio adds to its disk either by accident or design. There are already versions of HDMI. (1.1 etc) It is a giant fuck up. The whole thing. All fueled by greed and stupidity and the m ost short sighted tech thinking this generation.
 
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