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[Lemurnator]

B.B. King

Eric Clapton

John Lee Hooker

Albert King.

Blues is the foundation for Rock and Roll and it's still being played today without much change.

Appreciate Blues, BEOTCH.

 

[RevenantKioku]

My father's a huge blues nut, so I hear him listening to all this music. You'd be surprised at the number of songs just simply lifted by artists. Especially Zepelin. Although I do prefer "When the Levy Breaks" by Zepplin, still the point stands.
I'm actually named after Eric Clapton too.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"You'd be surprised at the number of songs just simply lifted by artists."

I would if I didn't already know how much was jacked by artists. Hell, the name Rock 'n Roll was stolen from jazz artists.

 

[RevenantKioku]

"You'd be surprised at the number of songs just simply lifted by artists."

I would if I didn't already know how much was jacked by artists. Hell, the name Rock 'n Roll was stolen from jazz artists.

Well I was mostly talking to our 13-year old friend here, but yeah, its all shamefully true, haha.

 

[Lemurnator]

Why is it whenever someone refers to me they have to include my age?

;_;

BLUES!

JAZZ!

WooWoo!

 

[Flynn]

Let R. Crumb school you on the Heroes of the Blues .

 

[Cooter]

The best music period.

SRV changed my life.

The guy is a legend.

 

[kablooey]

Anyone like Howlin' Wolf? I've been wanting to get into his stuff for a while. Recommendations?

Oh and yeah, blues kick ass.

 

[swoon]

i do this blues thing.

prewarblues.blogspot.com

 

[Dice]

I don't like newer artists, they are so annoying and their recordings are too squeeky clean and have no soul. I like the old school like Muddy Waters, Jimmy Rogers, Little Walter, etc.

 

[Flynn]

The recent Blues docs that aired on PBS are a must see for you guys.

 

[Dice]

You don't really need to know the history. I hate it when people try to turn something like music into a big competition and if you do a certain style how good you are at being "true" blues or if it's even blues in the first place and blah blah blah. It's like you just took all the fun out of music. Though I do like old delta blues stuff, I just prefer some of the stuff that came out after it hit Chicago, it's more available anyways.

 

[Flynn]

You don't really need to know the history. I hate it when people try to turn something like music into a big competition and if you do a certain style how good you are at being "true" blues or if it's even blues in the first place and blah blah blah. It's like you just took all the fun out of music. Though I do like old delta blues stuff, I just prefer some of the stuff that came out after it hit Chicago, it's more available anyways.

Um. There's there's lots of awesome Blues music in the documentary that you've probably never heard.

I hate it when people are content with scratching the surface.

 

[Dice]

If I was huge into blues I'd know it already, but as it is I just enjoy it in general, what I know is satisfactory until I get tired of it. I live near chicago, if I really wanted to I could go talk to some poeple who really know what they are talking about.

 

[Flynn]

If I was huge into blues I'd know it already, but as it is I just enjoy it in general, what I know is satisfactory until I get tired of it. I live near chicago, if I really wanted to I could go talk to some poeple who really know what they are talking about.

I guess it's just a difference in behavior.

When I get into something, I want to learn about it. I want to find out how my favorite artist started out and what their influences were. I enjoy the process of geeking out a digging deeper.

That's why those doc were so great to me. I learned so much about past, present and future Blues.

 

[swoon]

You don't really need to know the history. I hate it when people try to turn something like music into a big competition and if you do a certain style how good you are at being "true" blues or if it's even blues in the first place and blah blah blah. It's like you just took all the fun out of music. Though I do like old delta blues stuff, I just prefer some of the stuff that came out after it hit Chicago, it's more available anyways.

it's hard to understand why muddy waters was so good (and electric mud so bad) without understanding the where he came from and where he developed his style from. History is more important to blues music than to other forms of music because blues is a historical form of expression. listening to say a muddy waters track, but not hearing the son house track that laid down the foundation for that solo or that line is to not understand the music. muddy waters is channeling his teachers, the people he looked up to when he was young to guide him through his own personal blues, these aren't just notes and lyrics but a way of life and a form of expression that rooted in its past. Music is fun, but to limit your own personal knowledge of the music and thus your own personal understand of the music is to do yourself and the music a great diservice.

 

[Dice]

It might be because I'm very extroverted, I usually don't enjoy deep study unless it is with other people or very interesting to me. The Hirsch and Kummerow profile is soooo me.

But I don't mean to get off-topic...

 

[Flynn]

it's hard to understand why muddy waters was so good (and electric mud so bad) without understanding the where he came from and where he developed his style from. History is more important to blues music than to other forms of music because blues is a historical form of expression. listening to say a muddy waters track, but not hearing the son house track that laid down the foundation for that solo or that line is to not understand the music. muddy waters is channeling his teachers, the people he looked up to when he was young to guide him through his own personal blues, these aren't just notes and lyrics but a way of life and a form of expression that rooted in its past. Music is fun, but to limit your own personal knowledge of the music and thus your own personal understand of the music is to do yourself and the music a great diservice.

Preach it!

 

[Dice]

it's hard to understand why muddy waters was so good (and electric mud so bad) without understanding the where he came from and where he developed his style from. History is more important to blues music than to other forms of music because blues is a historical form of expression. listening to say a muddy waters track, but not hearing the son house track that laid down the foundation for that solo or that line is to not understand the music. muddy waters is channeling his teachers, the people he looked up to when he was young to guide him through his own personal blues, these aren't just notes and lyrics but a way of life and a form of expression that rooted in its past. Music is fun, but to limit your own personal knowledge of the music and thus your own personal understand of the music is to do yourself and the music a great diservice.

Sorry, no offense but I think stuff like this is pseudo-intellectual BS.

Art is an expression of oneself: Yes

Thus, if you know the person better you'll appreciate it on a deeper level: Yes

Thus, you must know what makes them or you are doing yourself and it a disservice: No

The world doesn't hinge on my perfect understanding. If I don't have a good enough idea of who the person was and what/how they are expressing themselves by their creation then they are a poor artist. I'm all for opening your mind and getting a nice depth of understanding, getting people to do that is a major purpose that art has, but there is an extent to which you put your mind on the backburner and turn on your soul to really know whats going on.

If you don't you fall into danger of pointless intellectual critique, and start to miss the unique individual for all their influences. And in your own creations you start to merely analyze and try to take from the best influences and blend them perfectly into something that ultimately fails. The best art has a background yes, but it's all in afterthought because it was created from the heart in the moment. And if the heart behind that moment is poorly expressed or it's not even being created from the heart, it's gonna suck.

If you know the history and you can pick up on everything going on and you feel it then thats great, but other people can feel it too, and thats what counts more than knowing exactly what it is they are feeling. In fact I think it kind of ruins things to be like "Ooooohh that's so good! ...because you see this and that and blah blah makes this like that and..." I mean, yuck. Intellectual breakdowns just aren't my thing at all even if I do understand them, because they always try to label and categorize things that are from the human heart which is unique and beautiful in it's own right.

 

[Flynn]

Again, disinterest in the author is your perogative.

Stick to the top layer of meaning if that's all you want.

Edit: Sorry to derail this thread Camille, the blues does indeed rock.

 

[Dice]

And again, I don't think I am, maybe intellectually and factually but that is it. So a person was influenced by those before them... So? Who were those guys influenced by? What about the people before them? Blues hasn't been around forever, so somewhere along the line it came from someones heart and other people felt it and it developed. That creation from the soul is far more important to appreciating it than tracing the roots. Who cares where someone learned their licks and how well you can identify it, what are they expressing through the licks is more important and not something you can really grasp with just your mind and facts.

 

[Flynn]

And again, I don't think I am, maybe intellectually and factually but that is it. So a person was influenced by those before them... So? Who were those guys influenced by? What about the people before them? Blues hasn't been around forever, so somewhere along the line it came from someones heart and other people felt it and it developed. That creation from the soul is far more important to appreciating it than tracing the roots. Who cares where someone learned their licks and how well you can identify it, what are they expressing through the licks is more important and not something you can really grasp with just your mind and facts.

What do you use, the Force?

Anyway,

The Blues came from the music of the plantation, of southern poverty and slaves -- which itself originated in Africa.

The connection is a very real and important one. It informs the Blues. You could say that if "flows through" the them.

 

[swoon]

And again, I don't think I am, maybe intellectually and factually but that is it. So a person was influenced by those before them... So? Who were those guys influenced by? What about the people before them? Blues hasn't been around forever, so somewhere along the line it came from someones heart and other people felt it and it developed. That creation from the soul is far more important to appreciating it than tracing the roots. Who cares where someone learned their licks and how well you can identify it, what are they expressing through the licks is more important and not something you can really grasp with just your mind and facts.

of course it developed from certian areas/regions/people, it is that passion that soul that is important to hear, not just over produced white boy chess records, blues, but what those people are trying to accomplish. the blues isn't about "licks" or any thing so cheap, it's about what those guitar runs mean, it's about why muddy waters chooses to play like son house and william brown. you cannot divorce the blues from itself, it's not possible. you can't just listen to one type of blues and expect to understand what you are hearing. the soul of blues is traced through time and history it is not formed by people at school, but by the fear and the oppression of soul and of passion. the blues is an escape. muddy waters sings about hard times. he sings about the levee and about his mistreatin' woman. but all of that, his entire soul is really calling out for the past, he is channeling the souls of all the blues before him and releasing it to the world as away to escape and understand his hardtimes he is going through right then. he is referencing the great blues men and women with his "licks" he's not doing it alone. that is the importance of learning about the genre. to understand the struggle that the blues is talking about, and that's not something undestood by just listening to chess records.

this quest for knowledge however, should not be something looked up or read about in any book. you can't study and learn to love the blues, but you must look into yourself and see these same connections that etta baker and al green and etta james and b.b king are making from their lives to the "blues" as a concept. this isn't as dogmatic as i make it of course, it is fine if this isn't your thing and that you just like good guitar players or whatever, the blues is here for you. but to say that you dont' think history is important to understand the blues is foolish and just young.

 

[Flynn]

of course it developed from certian areas/regions/people, it is that passion that soul that is important to hear, not just over produced white boy chess records, blues, but what those people are trying to accomplish. the blues isn't about "licks" or any thing so cheap, it's about what those guitar runs mean, it's about why muddy waters chooses to play like son house and william brown. you cannot divorce the blues from itself, it's not possible. you can't just listen to one type of blues and expect to understand what you are hearing. the soul of blues is traced through time and history it is not formed by people at school, but by the fear and the oppression of soul and of passion. the blues is an escape. muddy waters sings about hard times. he sings about the levee and about his mistreatin' woman. but all of that, his entire soul is really calling out for the past, he is channeling the souls of all the blues before him and releasing it to the world as away to escape and understand his hardtimes he is going through right then. he is referencing the great blues men and women with his "licks" he's not doing it alone. that is the importance of learning about the genre. to understand the struggle that the blues is talking about, and that's not something undestood by just listening to chess records.

this quest for knowledge however, should not be something looked up or read about in any book. you can't study and learn to love the blues, but you must look into yourself and see these same connections that etta baker and al green and etta james and b.b king are making from their lives to the "blues" as a concept. this isn't as dogmatic as i make it of course, it is fine if this isn't your thing and that you just like good guitar players or whatever, the blues is here for you. but to say that you dont' think history is important to understand the blues is foolish and just young.

I both feel you and understand you.

 

[Dice]

Swoon: Dude, you are agreeing with me. You are saying it is something deeper, it is something about the whole history and culture, the struggle and passion there. But it not something you can just read and know, something you have to pick up on from hearing it. I agree... That's what I said already, you listen and you hear it in their expression, and that is what counts.

but to say that you dont' think history is important to understand the blues is foolish and just young.

But I never said that. To have an understanding you need to do that, yes, but appreciating it with a deeper understanding doesn't change their soul in it, and you can feel their soul in it all the same without the understanding. It's just an afterthought and intellectual breakdown of what you feel when you first heard them, but no matter what kind of history lessons you give you can't put the emotion into words, it's just something you hear and feel whether in ignorance or understanding.

-edit-
I suppose we just disagree on the importance of having an intellectual understanding of things. Maybe you get a much greater appreciation from knowing all that, but I just don't work that way. Maybe my being an ENFP (linked to earlier) has something to do with it. I am also a musician (BTW), and for me all that stuff just tends to get in the way. I don't critique music, I feel it and live it.

 

[Teknopathetic]

The Black Keys are a cool new blues band. Very gritty and soulful.

 

[Cafeman]

don't forget Robert Cray, especially Strong Persuader.

 

[Flynn]

Nice, lets bring this discussion back to turning people on to the blues.

My picks:

Blind Willy Johnson -- Raw, heartfelt and soulful original blues. His song, "What is the Soul of A Man" succinctly and expertly digs deep. Perfect introspection.

The Jon Spencer Blues Explosion -- Punked-out, re-appropriation of the blues with a touch of Rollings Stones swagger.

R.L. Burnside -- A living blues legend. He's profane, funny and amazingly cool.