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[Draugoth]

Reprot vis Tweaktown
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Back in 2019, Gearbox shocked PC gamers by announcing that Borderlands 3 would be exclusive to the Epic Games Store. The move was a big bet from the Fortnite-maker, who was spending millions to secure exclusive games for its fledgling PC storefront in a bid to attract more users. Years later, Borderlands is back on Steam, with Borderlands 4 planning to launch on both EGS and Valve's store.

Back in 2019, Gearbox CEO Randy Pitchford believed in the Epic Store to a greater extent than he does now, so much that he declared Steam may "look like a dying store" in 5-10 years.

In a rather long and illuminating Tweet, Pitchford shares his thoughts on previous Borderlands exclusivity deal, on the Epic Store as a whole, and how he believes his initial gusto for Epic's challenging shop may have been misguided and misplaced.

If Epic successfully pressed its advantage, that may have been the case [that Steam will look like a dying store in 5 or 10 years].

But Epic did not.

So, famously, Steam does very little to earn the massive cut they take and continues its effective monopoly in the West while would-be competitors with much more developer friendly models continue to shoot themselves in the foot. I am a Steam customer and Steam developer that will continue to root for and support competition.

Borderlands 3 and Wonderlands demonstrated clearly that the customers show up for the games, not the store front. But the industry gives Steam their monopoly because publishers are afraid to take the risk to support more developer and publisher friendly stores. It's all very interesting and there is a huge amount of opportunity in the PC gaming space for retail disruption, but no one seems to be able to make it happen.

I had high hopes for Epic - hopes that were validated in the moment of the Borderlands 3 and Wonderlands launches.

But my long term hope (that appeared in a dozens-long Tweet storm I did five years ago) regarding Epic's store were misplaced or overly optimistic.

It's a cool lesson for me and anyone who wants to learn from my experience. Moving forward, we'll continue to support Steam (as we have for literally every PC games we've launched since Steam came into existence. Meanwhile, I sincerely hope Epic keeps up the fight and makes headway.

Epic is going to have to prioritize the store and try some new initiatives while also doubling down on earning pivotal exclusives if it is going to have a chance. I also hope other viable competitors arrive.

I am sure we will all be watching. As a developer I will continue to balance being where the customers are with being where I wished would earn the customers trust and loyalty. As a game player, I will be on all the platforms.

 

[adamsapple]

Really, Randy?

You don't say?

 

[DaciaJC]

So, famously, Steam does very little to earn the massive cut they take and continues its effective monopoly in the West

Oh, shut up already, you fucking idiot. Every time this guy opens his mouth, he manages to somehow sound even dumber.

 

[Holammer]

Oh, shut up already, you fucking idiot. Every time this guy opens his mouth, he manages to somehow sound even dumber.

It must be annoying as fuck for people like Randy to deal with Valve. He can pit MS and Sony against each other and get the best deal possible. Getting wine and dined, expensive trips and meetings. But with Valve it's a brick wall, they refuse to play the game and start "competing" with Epic, they ask him to pay the 100 dollar publishing fee like everyone else.

 

[Z O N E]

 

[Grildon Tundy]

"So, famously, Steam does very little to earn the massive cut they take and continues its effective monopoly in the West."

Yeah, they do very little except give developers and publishers access to the largest customer base. Quitcha bitchin

 

[bender]

Misplaced like a personal thumb drive.

 

[Tunned]

How about bringing Horizon Chase 2 to Steam you asshat?

 

[adamsapple]

Misplaced like a personal thumb drive.

Maybe it's misplaced, maybe it's magic.

 

[Holammer]

How about bringing Horizon Chase 2 to Steam you asshat?

The developer, Aquiris Game Studio was acquired by Epic. Turns out they are Epic Games Brazil now.

 

[bender]

Maybe it's misplaced, maybe it's magic.

 

[Tunned]

The developer, Aquiris Game Studio was acquired by Epic. Turns out they are Epic Games Brazil now.

Yeah I'm aware of that, damn exclusives

 

[Mokus]

He is just a coward. If he really wants EGS to succeed, then he should stick to that store and pay out of his pocket for the losses. But no he is talking about others how to fight his "fight".

 

[Midn1ght]

Oh, shut up already, you fucking idiot. Every time this guy opens his mouth, he manages to somehow sound even dumber.

Not surprising coming from a CEO of a studio who's regurgitating the same shit game loaded with DLC and Season Pass every 4 years.
This is your typical big gaming CEO not giving a shit about players and bitching about Valve putting consumers first and not rolling the red carpet for his company.

Coming from a guy who was caught with "barely legal porn" on a usb stick by the way.

Freak.

 

[CliffBronger]

The Epic store is a complete mess.

Why they haven't' updated the look and functionality in all these years is a complete mystery to me.

 

[Itchy Tickles]

So, he has one line about being mistaken, not wrong, mistaken, about his brain dead greed driven prediction, and then doubles down calling Steam a monopoly (more than once).
Also, instead of accepting he is wrong and stupid, he then says Epic had an advantage but didn't take it. So it's not only him not being wrong, but it was Epics' fault.

He says he'll always support competition while also being a "Steam Developer"(fucking King among men Randy. Brave. Hero) Does that mean he supports the people who dislike Epics store and practices, who didn't buy Borderlands until it went to Steam? Oh no wait, he's also implying Borderlands 3 and Wonderland sold its usual numbers, even being exclusive to Epic. Strange that, considering you don't hear ANY developer say that or see sales reports stating that. Alan Wake 2 says hello. And Steam does a lot for the 30%, you sell out thieving cunt.

This guy must've spent too much time in the magicians water tank, bought for with Sega money, upside down swallowing his USB sticks before someone pulled him out.

Borderlands 3 was medicore, but the writing was worse. Wonderland was just complete horseshit. Before Wonderland (and 3 tbf) they actively started spewing the "oh we are all for diversity if it helps us look good" and how stereotypes are wrong. In that game, soon before I gave up with the game, they had drunk skeleton characters. Can you guess their nationality? Well, Irish of course. They were all gay though, for some reason, so yippee. Fight the good fight.

 

[kikkis]

Typical person hates monopolies and wants government anti trust them immediately, but they always make exception for valve/steam. It's bizarre but never ask for logic in gamers discussions.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Steam: the insurmountable obstacle

 

[Trelane]

To his credit, what he’s fundamentally saying concerning competition is not wrong. However, to be competitive with Steam isn’t something that can be done easily. I’m not sure it realistically can be done without some major financial backing, lots of developer support, and an interface that doesn’t just do what Steam does, but does it better. Even then, I’m not sure it would work out.

I wish I could just install a game and start it up with NO launcher whatsoever like in the past, but it is what it is.

 

[StereoVsn]

I am shocked I tell ya, absolutely shocked that Randy The USB Porn Drive crawled back to Steam. Shocked!

 

[StereoVsn]

To his credit, what he’s fundamentally saying concerning competition is not wrong. However, to be competitive with Steam isn’t something that can be done easily. I’m not sure it realistically can be done without some major financial backing, lots of developer support, and an interface that doesn’t just do what Steam does, but does it better. Even then, I’m not sure it would work out.

I wish I could just install a game and start it up with NO launcher whatsoever like in the past, but it is what it is.

You can, just buy games on GoG. Yes, not everything is there but there are a ton of good titles.

 

[Spooky Scary Skeleton]

At least he admitted it. Would've been funnier if he doubled down on it for sole purpose of his ego and his seething hatred of Gaben and Steam.

 

[Trelane]

You can, just buy games on GoG. Yes, not everything is there but there are a ton of good titles.

I didn’t know that. Thanks! I’ll definitely check it out then.

 

[StereoVsn]

I didn’t know that. Thanks! I’ll definitely check it out then.

Yep, check it out. You can use their Galaxy launcher but can just download the installer directly. They don’t have any DRM in games they sell.

 

[Fbh]

If steam does nothing special to earn their cut why is the next Borderlands going to be on Steam?

 

[Robot Carnival]

I just like an excuse to post this image, that's all.

 

[DaciaJC]

Typical person hates monopolies and wants government anti trust them immediately, but they always make exception for valve/steam. It's bizarre but never ask for logic in gamers discussions.

Typical random poster butts in on a Steam-related thread to demonstrate they have no clue what a monopoly actually is, definitely haven't seen that approximately 1,327 times before.

 

[Sgt.Asher]

Randy is grease in human form

 

[ssringo]

Funny how Valve apparently does fuck all and yet not a single competitor can put a dent in them.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

It must be annoying as fuck for people like Randy to deal with Valve. He can pit MS and Sony against each other and get the best deal possible. Getting wine and dined, expensive trips and meetings. But with Valve it's a brick wall, they refuse to play the game and start "competing" with Epic, they ask him to pay the 100 dollar publishing fee like everyone else.

He's too much. He says some really outlandish things and I want to wring his neck, sometimes, like a cartoon!

 

[Punished Miku]

Can't say I disagree with him. The amount of money Steam collects compared to what they invest and return to the gaming world is obscene. All that money just goes in a black hole for no reason, and every 10 years a GAAS game from Valve pops out, at best.

 

[GHG]

Typical person hates monopolies and wants government anti trust them immediately, but they always make exception for valve/steam. It's bizarre but never ask for logic in gamers discussions.

Can't say I disagree with him. The amount of money Steam collects compared to what they invest and return to the gaming world is obscene. All that money just goes in a black hole for no reason, and every 10 years a GAAS game from Valve pops out, at best.

Why is it always the ignorant Xbox obsessed console gamers who have nothing to do with PC gaming with these kinds of takes regarding Valve and Steam?

 

[Fess]

Help me understand the laws on monopoly. How can Valve be in a monopoly position with Steam if developers and gamers are free to use whatever launcher or store they want?
They’ve done nothing except become popular. They don’t go out to publishers and devs to pay for exclusivity. Publishers, Microsoft, Sony come to them. Indie devs come to them. Gamers come to them.

 

[flying_sq]

Maybe if Epic didn't gate keep games with a bunch of money, and still offered free games, lower prices, plus did steam library integration maybe it would have been different.

Instead of just forcing exclusivity on EGS, flat out give indie titles money and just give the game away for a month or something on EGS. Use it to promote good will in the PC indie scene. Do a AAA game once in awhile like they did too, would be a surprise bonus.

 

[GHG]

Help me understand the laws on monopoly. How can Valve be in a monopoly position with Steam if developers and gamers are free to use whatever launcher or store they want?
They’ve done nothing except become popular. They don’t go out to publishers and devs to pay for exclusivity. Publishers, Microsoft, Sony come to them. Indie devs come to them. Gamers come to them.

The people who cry "monopoly" are typically the people who thrive on being contrarians. Instead of looking at something and trying to understand why it's popular, they take the stance that anything popular is "bad", cry about imaginary monopolies and will root for the inferior alternative because "competition". This was the situation when borderlands 3 launched on PC:

The image speaks for itself.

From a consumer perspective there is no monopoly. If you want to purchase games on PC there are often dozens of storefronts you can purchase keys from, you are not forced to buy your games directly through Steam. Beyond that, for most games there's also the option to purchase via GOG, the Microsoft Store and/or the EGS.

The only monopoly is the one that they made up in their heads.

 

[Robot Carnival]

being the "Valve fan boy" that I am, I will say that Valve does have one advantage over their competitors. they do not answer to any shareholders. nobody is looking over their shoulders, other than themselves, nickel-and-dime-ing everything they do to make sure the profit margin keeps going up all the time.

 

[Fess]

The people who cry "monopoly" are typically the people who thrive on being contrarians. Instead of looking at something and trying to understand why it's popular, they take the stance that anything popular is "bad", cry about imaginary monopolies and will root for the inferior alternative because "competition". This was the situation when borderlands 3 launched on PC:

The image speaks for itself.

From a consumer perspective there is no monopoly. If you want to purchase games on PC there are often dozens of storefronts you can purchase keys from, you are not forced to buy your games directly through Steam. Beyond that, for most games there's also the option to purchase via GOG, the Microsoft Store and/or the EGS.

The only monopoly is the one that they made up in their heads.

As I thought, good post. The only thing annoying about Steam, which isn’t Steam’s fault, is that you can’t launch games from all storefronts from within Steam. And other storefront providers likes exclusivity. Meaning you need to leave Steam to play Star Wars Outlaws and Alan Wake 2 for example. And other storefronts don’t have a controller mode, meaning you need mouse and keyboard. Not a Steam problem but as a Steam user you get affected by it if you just want to boot a living room setup PC in Steam big picture mode.

 

[Fess]

being the "Valve fan boy" that I am, I will say that Valve does have one advantage over their competitors. they do not answer to any shareholders. nobody is looking over their shoulders, other than themselves, nickel-and-dime-ing everything they do to make sure the profit margin keeps going up all the time.

Yeah, makes me concerned about the future once Gabe throw in the towel. I don’t think a big corporation would be allowed to acquire Steam but whoever does it would probably ruin it fast and start pulling strings to make more money and make it worse.

 

[flying_sq]

As I thought, good post. The only thing annoying about Steam, which isn’t Steam’s fault, is that you can’t launch games from all storefronts from within Steam. And other storefront providers likes exclusivity. Meaning you need to leave Steam to play Star Wars Outlaws and Alan Wake 2 for example. And other storefronts don’t have a controller mode, meaning you need mouse and keyboard. Not a Steam problem but as a Steam user you get affected by it if you just want to boot a living room setup PC in Steam big picture mode.

Last time I check (quite a few years ago) you can, functions just like launching a game with a different launcher via steam. It is a completely manual process, you just have to manually add the .exe to steam. Doing that will auto launch whichever launcher the game belongs to. You can break it up via different categories by launchers. There might be a way to automate it, but I did it once, then eventually reinstalled steam or wiped windows and never cared to redo it. Hell you can launch any application via steam.

I used to like to have the steam overlay in all my games.

 

[Fess]

Last time I check (quite a few years ago) you can, functions just like launching a game with a different launcher via steam. It is a completely manual process, you just have to manually add the .exe to steam. Doing that will auto launch whichever launcher the game belongs to. You can break it up via different categories by launchers. There might be a way to automate it, but I did it once, then eventually reinstalled steam or wiped windows and never cared to redo it. Hell you can launch any application via steam.

I used to like to have the steam overlay in all my games.

Huh I googled on that and was told that Ubisoft games can’t be added and neither Gamepass but never tried it myself to verify, I’ll go check it out asap and will report back.

Update 1: Gamepass works! Added the gamelaunchhelper.exe for Scorn, changed the name to Scorn, added StoreLogo.png in Resources folder is library art, added SplashScreen.png as background, and it totally looks like a Steam game. One click on play and it starts, controllers input works.
Don’t know how to change the art seen in big picture mode though, it’s gray now.

Update 2: Epic Games Store works. Added absolutedrift.exe, changed name to Absolute Drift, no splash logo to use but took a screendump from Epic’s library and tweaked cut and pasted it into a logo. Looks good enough! Starts with one click, controls work, great stuff

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Borderlands 3 and Wonderlands demonstrated clearly that the customers show up for the games, not the store front

I would say it’s exactly the opposite as Epic failure to grow their market share despite giving away tons of free games demonstrate.

Also Randy had to have taken extra dose of whatever he is snorting to look at Epic Store, who didn’t have basic features like wish lists and search a few years into operation and think - yup, that’s a competitor.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Yeah, makes me concerned about the future once Gabe throw in the towel. I don’t think a big corporation would be allowed to acquire Steam but whoever does it would probably ruin it fast and start pulling strings to make more money and make it worse.

There is no way any of the big publishers will be allowed to acquire Valve.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I would say it’s exactly the opposite as Epic failure to grow their market share despite giving away tons of free games demonstrate.

Also Randy had to have taken extra dose of whatever he is snorting to look at Epic Store, who didn’t have basic features like wish lists and search a few years into operation and think - yup, that’s a competitor.

This is exactly it. I think that a Steam competitor is possible but free games isn't going to cut it.
Why did Epic never copy Steam's features?

 

[Retrofluxed]

Huh I googled on that and was told....

In case you didn't know, Steam Grid is a great resource for artwork when you add a non-Steam game, or hell, even replacing shoddy artwork provided by the publisher.

 

[llien]

Developers giving 12% of the revenue up, instead of 30% is bad, amiright?

Help me understand the laws on monopoly. How can Valve be in a monopoly position with Steam if developers and gamers are free to use whatever launcher or store they want?

Help me understand the laws on monopoly. How can Alphabet be in a monopoly position with google if people are free to use whatever search engine they want?

The "evil Epic vs glorious Valve" discussions feel like people intentionally switch "/dense-mode on".

 

[llien]

Why did Epic never copy Steam's features?

I don't know what the feck you guys are doing on puny software stores. The only feature I've ever missed on ANY non steam game store, was Deck integration.

 

[llien]

Instead of looking at something and trying to understand why it's popular

Let me pretend Steam is popular because it is so great and not because it just historically happened to be the first games store of its kind that grew to overwhelmingly large user base over time.

See the contrast between:
1) "Because it is so great"
2) "Because it has 90% of the market under the belly of its obese CEO"

 

[jcorb]

If steam does nothing special to earn their cut why is the next Borderlands going to be on Steam?

 

[jcorb]

I never understood why people *hate* Randy Pitchford so much. He just seems like kind of a dude-bro that has poor his foot in his mouth a couple of times, and maybe isn’t super professional, but seems like by most accounts he’s a decent guy?

In any case, I definitely love Steam, and it’s the only digital marketplace I can say wholeheartedly that I have faith that any purchase I make will still be there in 15+ years.

But it’s also a good point that Steam takes a huge cut of sales on the platform, and I can absolutely see where that can hamstring smaller devs. I can’t say I’ve done much research on the minutiae of it all, but I’ve heard that the Epic store is actually pretty generous towards smaller devs (but again, I may be mistaken).

In any case, I don’t think there’s really a whole lot of discussion to be had here. He didn’t really say anything provocative, or terribly insightful either.

 

[Fbh]

Help me understand the laws on monopoly. How can Alphabet be in a monopoly position with google if people are free to use whatever search engine they want?

The "evil Epic vs glorious Valve" discussions feel like people intentionally switch "/dense-mode on".

To me the difference is that Alphabet invests gigantic resources into ensuring Google remains the dominant search engine.
They literally pay out tens of BILLIONS a year to other companies like Apple for them to keep Google as the default search engine on their devices
They've also had history of buying up competition.

From my understanding Valve has done none of this.
They don't pay anyone to put their games exclusively on Steam, they don't pay hardware manufacturers to put Steam on their devices by default, they haven't bought up any competitors, etc

Their advantage is simply that they offer a better service than their competitor and they believed in PC gaming and digital distribution before any of them, which has allowed them to develop a big userbase who has built their library on their platform and hasn't been given an reason to go look for an alternative. Now