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Boston: One dead, one captured, city re-opened

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If he gets life in prison he's going to wish he had been killed. Here's a story about where he would end up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...arkness-for-the-rest-of-his-natural-life.html

Hunched on a stool that is moulded to the floor of his broom-cupboard-sized cell, he turns the pages of the newspaper spread out on the concrete desk before him, soaking up stories and pictures from an outside world that he will never see again.

Located on a high desert plain in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains, 90 miles south of Denver, Florence had its first fall of winter snow last week, turning the sun-yellowed landscape a blinding white.
But from his cell on a unit that also houses fellow al-Qaeda terrorists, Reid, 33, sees nothing of the panorama.
For the rest of his life, his window on the world will be a slit measuring 42 in long and four inches wide, through which he can glimpse an enclosed concrete yard with 25 ft walls and, through the chainlink mesh that covers it, a small patch of sky. The prison, which opened in 1994, was built following the 1983 killings of guards at a penitentiary in Marion, Illinois. It was intended to hold the country's most dangerous prisoners.
"It's sensory deprivation — not Guantanamo, not hoods over your head and mental torture, but the next worst thing," one guard claimed.
The al-Qaeda inmates are kept in a separate area from other prisoners "partly because they have common needs particular to their faith, partly to ensure they cannot try to recruit others to their cause," explained one guard.

For 23 hours a day, Reid is locked down, confined to his cell. From computerised control booths, staff monitor the ranges using remote-controlled video cameras and motion sensors. Every half hour, day and night, he is checked through the windows in his cell doors and must stand by his bed at designated times, five times a day as the staff take a head-count.
His one hour of "freedom" may be spent padding around an indoor recreation hall alone, apart from his escorts, or sometimes in a yard with others, sectioned off from one another in "dog kennel" style compounds.

The colour scheme within the ADX is "pretty raw, pale army green, cement grey, off-white," said Gary Kalitolites, 44, a prison guard who quit the job last year.
"It's a very negative atmosphere. They can't see grass or trees, they will never feel the touch of a loved one, they will never see bright colours, they're deprived of the sensory stimulation that you and I know.
"Everyone in there is in a dark abyss. The isolation breeds paranoia, it's contagious.
 
Personally I believe that if you willfully and violently strip a person, or persons in this case, of their human right to live you don't deserve to keep yours. There is a level of inequity there that is disgusting. It is unfair that a 19 year old can end an 8 year old childs life in the blink of an eye, let alone others, and violently and painfully disabling dozens more forever changing the course of their lives. Shattering families and destroying relationships. Do we really think the person responsible for ruining so many people should be able to continue with their life, even in prison? I find it more than troubling that the worst society can do for such a grievous crime is keep perpetrators alive under the care of the state.
 
it sounds like he doesn't understand the point of the justice system.

Pretty much. I always wondered if he/she was from the States because they clearly don't have any idea on this matter in any scope, and just a general disliking of the US in general.

Our system isn't about retribution. Basing it around that would make us revert to the fuedal days and we'd be no better than gangbangers doing hits on someone for crossing them.

I'm sorry, but it is. It's about proper punishment for crimes committed against society, our beliefs, and freedoms. I'm not quite sure how capital punishment, a death sentence, is akin to a terrorist organization and now gangbangers "doing hits". He should, and will get his trial, and receive punishment equal to his crimes. That is how a justice system works, otherwise we'll have more groups like Al Qaeda who said we "are a soft country".

Retribution is a fucking awful goal as a sentencing guideline. If someone runs over a kid with his car we don't run HIM over, or run his kid over. If a surgeon botches a surgery we don't remove HIS limb. The examples are never ending.

And, if we're not talking some dipshit eye-for-eye retributive system and just want to express massive unscalable incomprehensible domination over someone who has committed a crime, know what you should do? Put them in prison. It's the most stark, visceral tool we have for demonstrating the power the nation can have over an individual. Yes, including killing them. Any fool with a pressure cooker and ball bearings can kill people. It takes real might to put them in a fancy cage and keep them there for many decades.

It's honestly a little disturbing that people have become so desensitized to the concept of long term imprisonment that they don't even consider it punishment anymore.

Yes, showing our "might" by putting them in a cell, giving them basically "free healthcare" and food which others struggle to obtain while not causing terrorist attacks. This is a bill that the US citizens will have to foot. And please, this isn't someone running over a kid with a car, this isn't a surgeon botching a treatment, this is someone who took part in a disgusting terrorist attack which killed/maimed/injured/mentally scarred nearly 200 people. He killed an officer of the law, a peace keeper.
 
With Tamerlan reportedly studying to become an engineer, I have to wonder if he was at least partially motivated by a desire to build bombs or identify structural weaknesses.
 
Personally I believe that if you willfully and violently strip a person, or persons in this case, of their human right to live you don't deserve to keep yours. There is a level of inequity there that is disgusting. It is unfair that a 19 year old can end an 8 year old childs life in the blink of an eye, let alone others, and violently and painfully disabling dozens more forever changing the course of their lives. Shattering families and destroying relationships. Do we really think the person responsible for ruining so many people should be able to continue with their life, even in prison? I find it more than troubling that the worst society can do for such a grievous crime is keep perpetrators alive under the care of the state.

Death is permanent. In terms of people like this, terrorising people to potentially make a point and or change, life imprisonment where they can sit for the rest of their lives and see that they accomplished jack shit as life goes on like normal is worse than death. Their life, for nothing.


I'm sorry, but it is. It's about proper punishment for crimes committed against society, our beliefs, and freedoms. I'm not quite sure how capital punishment, a death sentence, is akin to a terrorist organization and now gangbangers "doing hits". He should, and will get his trial, and receive punishment equal to his crimes. That is how a justice system works, otherwise we'll have more groups like Al Qaeda who said we "are a soft country".

LOL. We go 'soft' and we end up with more Al Qaeda groups in our country? Get a fucking grip.
 
The picture with the guy holding his bag down and their fingers to their ears, I'm pretty sure was taken after the blast. YES his back looks exactly like the blow up bag, it even has the same white tag on the top strap part. And no, the two brothers' backpacks don't look like it.

I never knew where the picture of the shredded backpack came from. Was it ever said by authorities to be the bag that contained the bomb, and which one (blast 1 or blast 2)?

Sure, the narrative that a PMC would setup a terrorist attack to get more work is probably no longer a thing of fiction these days, but there is far more evidence about the two brothers being the bombers than the other way around (pictures of Jahar at the location of the explosion, him running away without a backpack, etc.).

What bothers me more is that a company would have a skull and such a disgusting motto and still get contracts from states and municipalities, and that actual local federal law enforcement and security agencies are apparently not enough to get the job done that you have to hire private contractors, which raises all sorts of ethical . To me that's more troubling. The fact that this PMC (I'll call it that regardless of what name they like to use) had radiation counters implies that government agencies who were there for security purposes did not have those themselves, which indicates that there is a huge security problem to begin with.

Is it normal to have cities hire mercs to provide security for a marathon? Has it been done in the past and how frequently? That's what I'm wondering.

And since they are PMCs, it would make sense to have such a logo and slogan. You wouldn't want a PMC whose slogan was, "Violence ISN'T the answer," now would you? lol
 
Pretty much. I always wondered if he/she was from the States because they clearly don't have any idea on this matter in any scope, and just a general disliking of the US in general.



I'm sorry, but it is. It's about proper punishment for crimes committed against society, our beliefs, and freedoms. I'm not quite sure how capital punishment, a death sentence, is akin to a terrorist organization and now gangbangers "doing hits". He should, and will get his trial, and receive punishment equal to his crimes. That is how a justice system works, otherwise we'll have more groups like Al Qaeda who said we "are a soft country".
Your rank nationalism is nearly as disgusting as your shameless dehumanizing.
 
Personally I believe that if you willfully and violently strip a person, or persons in this case, of their human right to live you don't deserve to keep yours. There is a level of inequity there that is disgusting. It is unfair that a 19 year old can end an 8 year old childs life in the blink of an eye, let alone others, and violently and painfully disabling dozens more forever changing the course of their lives. Shattering families and destroying relationships. Do we really think the person responsible for ruining so many people should be able to continue with their life, even in prison? I find it more than troubling that the worst society can do for such a grievous crime is keep perpetrators alive under the care of the state.
I think the more relevant question is whether one crime justifies another. If depriving a person of life should be considered inherently wrong, then it's inconsistent to hold the killing of a helpless prisoner as a positive or even neutral act.

If you say "killing is wrong, unless..." you enter slippery territory.
 
Personally I believe that if you willfully and violently strip a person, or persons in this case, of their human right to live you don't deserve to keep yours. There is a level of inequity there that is disgusting. It is unfair that a 19 year old can end an 8 year old childs life in the blink of an eye, let alone others, and violently and painfully disabling dozens more forever changing the course of their lives. Shattering families and destroying relationships. Do we really think the person responsible for ruining so many people should be able to continue with their life, even in prison? I find it more than troubling that the worst society can do for such a grievous crime is keep perpetrators alive under the care of the state.
What he deserves is a nebulous concept even to a single person much less dozens or millions. From this thread we've seen prescriptions as wide as imprisonment with the possibility of parole to repeated ass rape, and death. That's why family members aren't selected for jury duty in cases they are related to. Criminals should be removed from society because they are threats. Any punishment or revenge fantasies should be rejected entirely.
 
Releasing a terrorist in hopes he becomes a productive member of society is completely ludicrous to me. If it had a success rate of 99% (lol) I'd still be completely against it when it comes to this level of crime. You can't catch a guy who has done this and run the risk of allowing him to do it again. That concept is so fucked up to me.
 
Is it normal to have cities hire mercs to provide security for a marathon? Has it been done in the past and how frequently? That's what I'm wondering.

And since they are PMCs, it would make sense to have such a logo and slogan. You wouldn't want a PMC whose slogan was, "Violence ISN'T the answer," now would you? lol

I wouldn't want a SECURITY company hired by MY municipal government to have the motto "Despite what your momma told you... Violence does solve problems". I expect professionalism from a company in charge of figuring out if a dirty bomb went off, not an image of immaturity that I would expect from the kind of soldiers that take pictures of themselves smiling with dead Somalians and end up court-martialed or in jail.
 
I'm sorry, but it is. It's about proper punishment for crimes committed against society, our beliefs, and freedoms. I'm not quite sure how capital punishment, a death sentence, is akin to a terrorist organization and now gangbangers "doing hits". [He should, and will get his trial, and receive punishment equal to his crimes. That is how a justice system works, otherwise we'll have more groups like Al Qaeda who said we "are a soft country".

How does killing one person = killing 4 people? You can't bring him back to life and kill him 3 more times. It'll never be equivalent.

And why the fuck do we care about Al Qaeda's opinion of us?

Yes, showing our "might" by putting them in a cell, giving them basically "free healthcare" and food which others struggle to obtain while not causing terrorist attacks. This is a bill that the US citizens will have to foot.

And this angle doesn't work, because it's more expensive to execute someone than jail them for the rest of their life.

Oh no, he'll be able to eat! I don't stoop to the level of petty revenge, so that's perfectly fine with me.
 
Releasing a terrorist in hopes he becomes a productive member of society is completely ludicrous to me. If it had a success rate of 99% (lol) I'd still be completely against it when it comes to this level of crime. You can't catch a guy who has done this and run the risk of allowing him to do it again. That concept is so fucked up to me.

You clearly are missing the point in your whole thirst for blood. No one is saying to release the guy, or any other terrorist for fuckssake.
 
Somehow I doubt the FBI would be stupid enough to miss something like this. Silly conspiracy theory. Weren't the two suspects in question caught with all kinds of bombs and even the very same kind of pressure cooker style bomb device? Why, if they were truly innocent, would they go on the crazy rampage that they did, instead of turning themselves in and explaining their innocence?
Clearly the FBI set up a frame job with help from the liberal media.
 
Releasing a terrorist in hopes he becomes a productive member of society is completely ludicrous to me. If it had a success rate of 99% (lol) I'd still be completely against it when it comes to this level of crime. You can't catch a guy who has done this and run the risk of allowing him to do it again. That concept is so fucked up to me.

Who's advocating that? I'm not against the idea that he could be reformed, but most of us want him thrown in prison for life.
 
Your rank nationalism is nearly as disgusting as your shameless dehumanizing.

Really? Because I think anyone that thinks that the amount of havoc this individual exacted upon our citizens deserves to live on and think about what they did in prison for the rest of their lives is disgusting and a sheer sign of their disregarding of the value of other people's lives.

And this isn't even damned close to "dehumanization".
 
Death penalty is dumb if only because, in case of a judicial mistake, there's no letting the poor schmuck free.

And that's the simplest argument; do you really trust your law system to make absolutely no mistakes when death penalty is an option?

America doesn't really have a good track record here.
 
Really? Because I think anyone that thinks that the amount of havoc this individual exacted upon our citizens deserves to live on and think about what they did in prison for the rest of their lives is disgusting and a sheer sign of their disregarding of the value of other people's lives.

And this isn't even damned close to "dehumanization".

Well, you're calling reasonable people disgusting -- so there's that.
 
You clearly are missing the point in your whole thirst for blood. No one is saying to release the guy, or any other terrorist for fuckssake.

My thirst for blood? I've already said the death penalty isn't the best way to go about this.

Who's advocating that? I'm not against the idea that he could be reformed, but most of us want him thrown in prison for life.

I should've quoted Notrolius.

Except that doesn't work. At. All. Period. I'm SO glad we've gotten out of the 15th century mentality here.

And what's best for society is, funnily enough, to rehabilitate criminals so they can be productive members of society. Locking someone up for 20 years and then throwing them to the general populace and expecting them to be 'cured' is not only optimistic, but foolish as well. These people end up completely fucked in more than one way, unable to reintegrate with society, and go on to become repeat offenders.perminate

Our 'justice' system is nothing more than a revenge circuit.

I misread this, I thought you somehow expected them to be rehabilitated before they were in prison for so long that they're fucked up permanently.
 
Pretty much. I always wondered if he/she was from the States because they clearly don't have any idea on this matter in any scope, and just a general disliking of the US in general.



I'm sorry, but it is. It's about proper punishment for crimes committed against society, our beliefs, and freedoms. I'm not quite sure how capital punishment, a death sentence, is akin to a terrorist organization and now gangbangers "doing hits". He should, and will get his trial, and receive punishment equal to his crimes. That is how a justice system works, otherwise we'll have more groups like Al Qaeda who said we "are a soft country".



Yes, showing our "might" by putting them in a cell, giving them basically "free healthcare" and food which others struggle to obtain while not causing terrorist attacks. This is a bill that the US citizens will have to foot. And please, this isn't someone running over a kid with a car, this isn't a surgeon botching a treatment, this is someone who took part in a disgusting terrorist attack which killed/maimed/injured/mentally scarred nearly 200 people. He killed an officer of the law, a peace keeper.

I'm sorry, but you are just completely wrong. We are one of the last first world countries to still have the death penalty. We have known for 60 years that it does not deter crime one bit. We, as a nation, should be smart. We should make intelligent, informed decisions.
 
Aside from the moral standpoint, isn't it usually cheaper to sentence someone to life in prison rather than putting them on death row?
 
Really? Because I think anyone that thinks that the amount of havoc this individual exacted upon our citizens deserves to live on and think about what they did in prison for the rest of their lives is disgusting and a sheer sign of their disregarding of the value of other people's lives.

And this isn't even damned close to "dehumanization".

No it isn't. It isn't for the public, it isn't to scare others, and isn't for those maimed or dead. These animals become a financial strain on or tax dollars, continuing to hurt us long after. And is it OK to take lives of innocent law abiding citizens and law enforcement. You're saying their life is more valuable than the others?
That speaks for itself, I think.
 
Point out where I said that a terrorist should be released. I have been advocating for life imprisonment.

Point it out without putting words into my mouth.

Check my last point again, I apologize. Though now we're even since you said I had a thirst for blood even though I never called for the death penalty.
 
Retribution is a fucking awful goal as a sentencing guideline. If someone runs over a kid with his car we don't run HIM over, or run his kid over. If a surgeon botches a surgery we don't remove HIS limb. The examples are never ending.

And, if we're not talking some dipshit eye-for-eye retributive system and just want to express massive unscalable incomprehensible domination over someone who has committed a crime, know what you should do? Put them in prison. It's the most stark, visceral tool we have for demonstrating the power the nation can have over an individual. Yes, including killing them. Any fool with a pressure cooker and ball bearings can kill people. It takes real might to put them in a fancy cage and keep them there for many decades.

It's honestly a little disturbing that people have become so desensitized to the concept of long term imprisonment that they don't even consider it punishment anymore.

I consider it a more real punishment than putting him to death. He gets the time to think about and realize the life that he gave away. The fact that he has no more freedom will sink in. The full weight of what he did will haunt him in his dreams. And, to be completely honest, I don't even think he should be allowed any family or friendly visitations from anybody he knows while locked up. The fact that he might be wondering what those people are up to, or what they might be saying, or whether he's really thinking over just how badly he wants to be able to say something to somebody that he knows, are all things that we should use to torture this guy mentally by denying him every bit of it.

Only people he should see are the guards that tell him what to do, and the dangerous criminals that will become his new family, whether he likes it or not.

However, a big part of me would also not care in the slightest if he went to go join his brother in hell.
 
Recidivism rates in the US are really high, especially when compared to other industrialized nations. Simply punishing people in prison is a big part of the reason. We need to rethink that a bit.
 
That speaks for itself, I think.

That is my personal opinion on what their actions accounted as, they didn't act like a "citizen", they didn't act like a normal human being. I still regard them to give them a trial, and give them their dues. I expect our justice system to produce a proper result.
 
I think the more relevant question is whether one crime justifies another. If depriving a person of life should be considered inherently wrong, then it's inconsistent to hold the killing of a helpless prisoner as a positive or even neutral act.

If you say "killing is wrong, unless..." you enter slippery territory.

Why look at him through the prism of a helpless prisoner? He wouldn't be a prisoner at all if he didn't kill and maim a good deal of people. The choice to become a prisoner we made the moment he decided to take brutal violent action against innocent people. From that moment on his life became a ticking clock for his personal freedom.

Really, he probably wouldn't even be alive right now if it took cops another hour or two to find him. His strategic value as a person became strictly informational as soon as he was outed as a bomber.

I'm not suggesting days of rape and torture at all. For myself, the world would be a better place if his heart simply stopped beating and he was no longer around. His victims were painfully torn asunder in an instant. He would still gets the nicety of knowing when and where he was going to die. It is pretty clear cut that the punishment is justified.
 
That innocent naked guy's legacy may never die. So dumb that some networks kept showing him.

"They said the brother died from wounds but I saw him get on the ground naked with no wounds! It's bullshit! This is all a smoke screen people!" courtesy of YouTube comments :lol
 
Just now hearing that the kid has throat injuries and may not be able to speak. Are you fucking kidding me?!

Sign language all up in this bitch.

He can still write.

EDIT: Also, is there any confirmation that this kid was the one who killed the cop or placed the bomb? If not, would he not just be an accessory?
 
He might want to die in which case life in prison without any possibility of parole will be much worse.

Besides, American prisons are pretty brutal and uncivilized in and of themselves. He's not going to have anything remotely of a good time there.

He'd be in solitary for the rest of his life. Brutal maybe, but not the way you're thinking.
 
I think we should have a randomly selected Caucasian American child execute the terrorist with a revolver cast from salvaged Boston shrapnel, live on CNN. Financially, morally, and symbolically, it's the ideal solution.
 
Just now hearing that the kid has throat injuries and may not be able to speak. Are you fucking kidding me?!

he'd better survive or we'll never hear the end of these conspiracies. sigh.

I don't buy into them but so many strange elements to this whole situation... this being only the latest
 
Applying Occam's Razor I would say they were part of the security team. Seems pretty fucking idiotic for the government to fake a bombing by using agents so easily made/identified by their attire.

Do you think these people care about logic? They could come up with alternate theories as to why the Earth goes around the sun for crying out loud. If you look closely enough (and take logical leaps of faith) you can justify just about anything.

In this specific case, the guy is still wearing his backpack after the bombs go off, but that won't stop these folks.
 
he'd better survive or we'll never hear the end of these conspiracies. sigh.

I don't buy into them but so many strange elements to this whole situation... this being only the latest

He'll survive. I haven't read anything about him losing his ability to speak though, just that he can't be speak right now because he's recovering from a gunshot wound in the neck.
 
Conspiracy theory time. He can still write so he is all good. Just rather him say it.

Oh yeah, I can see it now "If we don't see him write it, how do we know it's him? And even if we see it, how do we know the video isn't staged? And how do we know that he's even in a hospital? And how do we know the hospital even exists?" Wackos.
 
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