Bungie Explains Why There’s No “Feasible” Way To Play Destiny 2’s Vaulted Red War Campaign Even Internally In New Court Filings

100% flat out lies. They can easily play it. To set up an internal server for a separate build of the game is something they do... literally every single day. They could easily let us play it. It would just have to be a separate release running on a separate server.... And that might sound like some herculean, impossible, can never be done task... But that is literally something they have already done and are still doing.

It's the exact same way Destiny 1 is running literally today. Destiny 1 has two active versions, with different content depending on if you are playing the 7th or 8th generation console version of it.
 
SnapShot said:
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"Bungie archived the original code that comprised the 'Red War' and 'Curse of Osiris' campaigns (known as 'legacy builds')," game director Tyson Green's declaration reads. "However, the 'Red War' and 'Curse of Osiris' legacy builds can no longer run because their outdated code is incompatible with Destiny 2's underlying operational framework, which has evolved considerably since the 'Red War' and 'Curse of Osiris' campaigns were retired."

"As a result, Bungie cannot feasibly provide the Court with the original Destiny 2 game as it existed in 2017, including the accused 'Red War' and 'Curse of Osiris' campaigns, in any operable or reviewable form. Nor will Bungie be able to produce the accused campaigns in operable or reviewable form if this matter proceeds to formal discovery."
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Source.

It sounds like Bungie is going to have to find a way to produce the Red War and Curse of Osiris campaigns "in operable and reviewable form" if they want to have this case dismissed. To be frank, I find it difficult to believe there is no feasible way to do this.
 
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laynelane said:
It sounds like Bungie is going to have to find a way to produce the Red War and Curse of Osiris campaigns "in operable and reviewable form" if they want to have this case dismissed. To be frank, I find it difficult to believe there is no feasible way to do this.
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give it to fan modders, and it's gonna be up and running fully integrated in a month or two.
 
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DryvBy said:
I don't even understand how modern games have such limitations, especially when you're loading in/out a campaign. If GTA and RDR can manage to have content after content packed on, wtf is their problem?
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There were comments floating round a year or two back that said their code-base and engine was a mess. That might have just been something Bungie "leaked" as an excuse to gate off content for whatever reason.
 
laynelane said:
Source.

It sounds like Bungie is going to have to find a way to produce the Red War and Curse of Osiris campaigns "in operable and reviewable form" if they want to have this case dismissed. To be frank, I find it difficult to believe there is no feasible way to do this.
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I would imagine the plaintiffs could argue against this pretty easily if Bungie "rebuilt it", who is to determine if it was edited from original form?
 
nowhat said:
Bungie to court: our versioning system sucks! No rollbacks, no merges!

The reality: their versioning system may very well suck, not all have yet to see the light that is git. But where there is a will, there's a way. It's easier to can some features and later bring them back as a freebie.
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if they still on svn I pity their souls. Git was genius but then its a creation of Linus Torvalds.

LRKD said:
100% flat out lies. They can easily play it. To set up an internal server for a separate build of the game is something they do... literally every single day. They could easily let us play it. It would just have to be a separate release running on a separate server.... And that might sound like some herculean, impossible, can never be done task... But that is literally something they have already done and are still doing.

It's the exact same way Destiny 1 is running literally today. Destiny 1 has two active versions, with different content depending on if you are playing the 7th or 8th generation console version of it.
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Depends wether their versioning tool allows them the recovery of old versions intact.
 
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Bungie lost me as soon as they started removing paid DLC from the game and you couldn't play it anymore. Fucking crooks
 
This just sounds to me that a) their code base is a fucking mess and b) their internal code and asset repositories are a fucking mess, too.
 
Guardian Monkey said:
I would imagine the plaintiffs could argue against this pretty easily if Bungie "rebuilt it", who is to determine if it was edited from original form?
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The reason why the judge didn't allow Bungie's submission of fan made content as evidence is because the Plaintiff didn't have them in his complaint:

The new court filing was Bungie's attempt to get the lawsuit thrown out at an early stage. In its motion to dismiss, Bungie included links to fan-recorded YouTube videos and summaries from Destinypedia to show the content Martineau was accusing it of copying, since the original campaigns were removed from Destiny 2 years ago and can't be accessed anymore.

But the judge wasn't on board with that. In her official ruling, Judge Susie Morgan made it clear that just because Destiny 2 is mentioned in the lawsuit doesn't mean the court can rely on third-party videos or unofficial wikis. "While Plaintiff does reference Destiny 2 in his complaint, he does not reference the YouTube videos containing Destiny 2 game footage, the Destinypedia pages, or the Tyson [Green, Destiny 2's game director] declaration," the order states.
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However, if Bungie 'somehow' found a way to make those campaigns playable again, there's a vast amount of video and written evidence out there. Maybe if such things were submitted by the Plaintiff, it would be acceptable then? Then there's also the fact that this is about the lifting of specific things from this Plaintiff's literary work - and they sound like things that would be very difficult to edit or remove in any sort of subtle way.
 
Let that game die quit trying to turn it into a GAAS for the next 20 years.. They ruined the game with all the adding that confused returning players and newcomer alike.

Make a Destiny 3 and reset
 
DryvBy said:
I don't even understand how modern games have such limitations, especially when you're loading in/out a campaign. If GTA and RDR can manage to have content after content packed on, wtf is their problem?
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It is an engine issue basically

they are still using a fork of Blam engine, same engine that halo infinite uses as a base too

.. and both have similar issues with efficiency
 
Dorfdad said:
Let that game die quit trying to turn it into a GAAS for the next 20 years.. They ruined the game with all the adding that confused returning players and newcomer alike.

Make a Destiny 3 and reset
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Agreed. The game needs a reset.

I played through all of D1, all raids, pvp, everything. Played about 2 years into D2 and when I tried to come back it was just a mess, content I used to have access to was gone and I had to basically learn about all the changes, so I ended up bailing out.

I imagine there are many others like me and a Destiny 3 with a fresh start would do very well.
 
MagnesD3 said:
I hope they are forced to refund. I despise them for this, the fact that there are a ton of players that dont call them out on this is crazy and toxic for the industry. Company should go down at this point if its ran like this.
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This! I despise them to the core for the vaulting of so much content. The craziest thing is the Mars and Mercury dlc had only been released like a year and a half prior to the vaulting of it.

I would be so happy to see Bungie be sued over this. They set a huge precedent for what companies can get away with at the expense of their loyal fans with the content vaulting. A big blow against game ownership and preservation and it showed the formula for how to use "influencers" to help convince the retarded fans that "vaulting is for the better; that content was bad anyway". So it's not just Bungie I can't forgive but all the idiots who defended them for this too.
 
They could have just pulled a Vanilla WoW type of thing. Actually it would be hilarious if FFXIV can pull off something like that, offering servers for the pre-ARR version of the game.
 
Your honor, restoring previous versions is like really hard. Humans haven't found ways of managing environments or doing rollbacks. Computer says no.
 
Its scummy and I do hate the clusterfuck that is Destiny but the Red War campaign is like the last thing I finished in this game (I would sell the game like a few weeks later, and try F2P Destiny only to nope out quickly) and its an absolute waste of time anyway. Its woeful.

I remember the fans ate it back then, because Destiny was so deprived of any story and interaction, that pretty much any kind of dialogue was celebrated. And Red War did have more story and cutscenes than D1. But I still prefer the also dreadful D1 campaign simply for the fact you could co-op it and do it on hard mode as well.

Even if you had played D2 for like 40 hours, and you would come back a few years later you would be thrown into the ocean. Its the most unwelcoming game ever. I mean, I picked up Warframe again after a 5 years or so hiatus, and after relearning the controls I cleaned up some planets and forged a few frames. There was nothing unwelcoming about it.
 
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Yeah that is bullshit as that campaign was amazing upon release and they've done a real misservice by doing this.

Awhile ago I tried to get a friend to play it and talked up the intro campaign, only for him to be like wtf you talking about and I just assumed he was bullshitting me.

D2 is insanely hard to jump into as a new player(and this was ages ago) , they could have easily left it all in and just make it a seperate entity, like a prologue.
 
This is a time when I actually support switching to UE5. There is a rumor their other game is UE5 and that tells me everything about the engine.
 
Cash in, cash out. Loot, shoot, and scoot. Destiny III lfg

Falling Over GIF


PS: Bullshtit
 
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DryvBy said:
I don't even understand how modern games have such limitations, especially when you're loading in/out a campaign. If GTA and RDR can manage to have content after content packed on, wtf is their problem?
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Elder Scrolls Online NEVER removed any content since launch and it's packed with more than 2000h of story content easily. The funny part: ESO weights less than Destiny 2 on PS5. Bungie has no excuse to be this incompetent.
 
Sushi_Combo said:
Always perplexed at their reasoning for releasing D2 in the first place. One of their goals was to reduce any of these types of limitations, yet they've had to cave in and remove swaths of content in order for the game to be in an operable state.

Players had to accept the fact that their time in D1 was essentially not respected, first red flag for me. Honestly it's really hard to even think of jumping into any current/new bungie game, as good as the gameplay is, I feel like they're the worst offenders at shafting their dedicated fanbase.
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Yeap, I quit Destiny when they announced Destiny 2 because I predicted exactly what is happening now. I had a great time with the first one but I got punched in the face when the sequel was revealed and I never came back not even when it went free to play.
 
I hate that they use the term vaulted. To me, putting something in a vault implies that you can take it back out and use it whenever you want.
 
i loved playing destiny 2 on launch.
Gave it 200+ hours and never touched it again.

Feels gud

Don't treat any game as GAAS,
Just play it at launch and be done with it.
 
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nowhat said:
Bungie to court: our versioning system sucks! No rollbacks, no merges!

The reality: their versioning system may very well suck, not all have yet to see the light that is git. But where there is a will, there's a way. It's easier to can some features and later bring them back as a freebie.
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It is often not as simple as rolling back the entire codebase or reverting that set of changes. Build system might have changed in incompatible ways, reverting the change set might now not build anymore because the rest of the code changed too much or you may have horrible merge conflicts to solve.

Got history is good, but leave enough time and it is just that, historical context, or something you can restore easily. You rebuild it with an old used to be working implementation as basis.
 
DryvBy said:
I don't even understand how modern games have such limitations, especially when you're loading in/out a campaign. If GTA and RDR can manage to have content after content packed on, wtf is their problem?
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Think 32bit PhysX being depreciated in the 5000 series parts. If Bungie have updated their tools to a new version and an old feature is no longer available they would refactor the code in the release version to work with the new tools but they wouldn't bother with old stuff that is no longer in the release version.

So while that code for this campaign is sitting there the way it is built is to the standards of older tools and when trying to run it with the current tools it will throw out a lot of errors. It could probably be refactored but that can be a big job, especially if basic functionality like grabbing an audio file or loading a cutscene has undergone revision such that the way the campaign calls those things is not compatible with how the game currently works.
 
I've played thousands of hours of Destiny 2. They need to make a third. No longer motivated to play for the past 8 months and right now, no reason to come back.

I've realized how many games I put aside for the grind to this game and have been chipping away at my backlog.

It's been a good run for a lot of people that play this game, a decade pretty much, but being D3.
 
Trogdor1123 said:
Not sure I agree. Destiny 2 was #2 ranked on revenue on steam last year as I recall. I suspect they are rather profitable
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Staff cuts happened last year because they weren't hitting revenue targets from Sony where missing those targets would result in Sony taking control of the company. They're not doing badly but I wouldn't go as far as to say they're doing well either. Bungie may not be with us at the end of this console gen.
 
Curse of Osiris can stay vaulted. Worst PvE area they made for Destiny or Destiny 2.

Panoptes the Infinite Mind. Good Lord.
 
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