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[DarienA]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/26/campaigns.527s/index.html

LAS CRUCES, New Mexico (CNN) -- President Bush wants to work with Sen. John McCain to take legal action against "shadowy" outside groups that have been spending millions of dollars on ads criticizing the president and Democratic rival Sen. John Kerry, the White House said Thursday.....

Discuss.

 

[xsarien]

Bush sure likes the word "shadowy."

 

[HAOHMARU]

But Bush did not condem the SBVFT ads so he is the devil.

 

[MrAngryFace]

He fights the shadow, with the help of the minbari!

 

[human5892]

But Bush did not condem the SBVFT ads so he is the devil.

Well, he didn't, even as news has surfaced linking the group to his campaign.

Given that fact, this news -- while appearing to be good -- is something I'll believe when I see, or at least hear from another source besides a White House press statement.

 

[ShadowRed]

Why doesn't he get with John Kerry and both come out against t=the 527s. This seems to me to be a way for Bush to claime to be against these 527s while at the same time not doing anything about them screwing Kerry with BS ads. If was really sincere he would went to John Kerry and made this offer.

 

[Makura]

Well, he didn't, even as news has surfaced linking the group to his campaign.

Why should he target a specific one, when there are just as many similar links to the Kerry camp?

I agree with the FEC Commission Chairman:

"I think it's great we live in a country where 260 average guys can go out and put their point of view out there before the public and influence a major presidential race,'' Smith said in an interview with Bloomberg television. ``I am not one who agrees it is illegitimate for citizens to take a stand on these kind of issues and only the politicians should be able to say what they want about the issues they want to talk about.''

"For the Kerry group to be complaining'' when Democratic donor-funded groups have raised much more ``seems a little bit absurd,'' said Smith, who was appointed by former President Bill Clinton, a Democrat.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=71000001&refer=us&sid=aIeXxo.8.2lI

 

[Cherubae]

Out here we have an "I approved this message" ad playing that attacks Kerry's voting record. I find it ironic that Bush is trying to fight negative ads from outside parties but he's not doing anything for his own tv advertisements.

 

[human5892]

Why should he target a specific one, when there are just as many similar links to the Kerry camp?

I've not heard of any significant links between Kerry and 527 groups.

 

[Drensch]

I've not heard of any significant links between Kerry and 527 groups.

In addition to that I'm not aware of any straight up lies in pro-Kerry 527s.

 

[HAOHMARU]

I've not heard of any significant links between Kerry and 527 groups.

Well, what do think is significant? A Bush legal advisor giving advice to the SBVFT? Kerry's legal advisor's have done the same thing for anti-Bush 527 groups. Although, none have resigned that I know of.

What it really comes down to is that the Democrats blame the Republicans that they have 527 ties. The Republicans are blaming the Democrats for having 527 ties. In reality, both parties can be linked to such groups.

 

[DarienA]

Kerry's legal advisor's have done the same thing for anti-Bush 527 groups. Although, none have resigned that I know of.

Link please?

What it really comes down to is that the Democrats blame the Republicans that they have 527 ties. The Republicans are blaming the Democrats for having 527 ties. In reality, both parties can be linked to such groups.

True.

 

[human5892]

Well, what do think is significant? A Bush legal advisor giving advice to the SBVFT? Kerry's legal advisor's have done the same thing for anti-Bush 527 groups. Although, none have resigned that I know of.

Actually, I don't think the Bush legal advisor is terribly important, but these other connections are:

Kenneth Cordier, who appears prominently in the SBVT ads, was a member of the Bush/Cheney veterans steering committee.2 According to the campaign website, members of the veterans steering committee "serve as messengers for the President's re-election campaign."3 After the Kerry campaign exposed Cordier's involvement, a spokesman for Bush, Steve Schmidt, announced Cordier would "no longer participate" in the campaign.4 According to Schmidt, the campaign had no idea that Cordier was involved in the SBVT ads - which have been a major issue in the campaign for weeks and replayed repeatedly on national television.

The primary financial backer of the SBVT is Bob Perry - the top donor to Republicans in the state of Texas.5 Perry has also been a friend of Karl Rove, Bush's top political advisor, for nearly 20 years.6 Perry ponied up $46,000 for Bush's gubernatorial campaigns and contributed generously to Bush's presidential races.7

http://www.misleader.org/daily_mislead/read.asp?fn=df08232004.html

In reality, both parties can be linked to such groups.

Again, I've never heard of any significant proof of the Kerry campaign being linked to an anti-Bush 527.

 

[teiresias]

"I think it's great we live in a country where 260 average guys can go out and put their point of view out there before the public and influence a major presidential race,'' Smith said in an interview with Bloomberg television. ``I am not one who agrees it is illegitimate for citizens to take a stand on these kind of issues and only the politicians should be able to say what they want about the issues they want to talk about.''

260 average guys and one very major Republican party monetary contributor.

I can't believe he's asking McCain for this after the crap Bush pulled on him in the primary. McCain should stop being a pawn for Bush.

 

[golem]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5820820/

SCARBOROUGH: And what did Senator Kerry say to you in response?

DOLE: He said, “I haven’t spent one dime in my campaign on a negative ad.”

Well, he doesn’t have to. He’s got George Soros, who put in $15 million. He’s got Harold Ickes up there cranking out millions of dollars of ads. He’s got his former campaign manager in Boston in another group called Bringing America Together.

President Bush to his credit, and I wish John Kerry would follow suit, said, “Let’s stop all these so-called 527 ads, all these soft money ads that have been so critical. Let’s talk about the issues.”

And the American people, they like to know that you’re a veteran, or not a veteran—you know, they actually don’t like some of the negatives and all this. But they also like to know what’s going to happen next year, not what happened 30 or 35 years ago.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, Senator, we’ve been talking for the past week now about the fact that Harold Ickes was holed up in the Four Seasons in Boston with Democratic fundraisers and John Kerry’s top contributors for an entire week during the Democratic National Convention.

And yet, nobody wrote about his 527 ad and the $20 million that he raised for ACT. Nobody talked about the fact that John Kerry’s former campaign manager is running this Media Fund, which also is spending millions and millions of dollars.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

Bush and his horrible attempts to try and look good. Running to McCain after smearing him to death in 2000. Fucking pathetic. McCain is even more pathetic if he falls for this shit. Add to the fact that Bush has released many negative Kerry ads from his own camp... What, it's okay since he isn't a 527?



Bush is a fucking two faced liar.

 

[Nerevar]

I agree with the FEC Commission Chairman:

You would agree with him. Hell, even Senator McCain called him a right-wing extremist in today's USA today (seriously, go read it)


Here it is, if you don't have the paper version:

McCain 'sick and tired of re-fighting' Vietnam War

McCain called chairman Bradley Smith "a right-wing ideologue" and vice chair Ellen Weintraub "a political apparatchik." He said he and his allies would go to court to force the FEC to enforce the law.

The fact of the matter is that Bush would of course want to do this publicly with McCain. If he even manages to get the ball really rolling on this it won't pass for another year, so he'll never have to deal with it. He's never going to run in a presidential election again. So it makes him look good (cleaning up corrupt political spectrum) AND he doesn't have to abide by it. It's a win-win situation for him. Appealing to McCain (a lifetime campaign finance reformer) makes it even better - McCain is loved by moderates AND veterans and it's something he'll definitely agree to help him with. Another win-win.

 

[SteveMeister]

Perhaps Bush shouldn't have voted in to law the McCain-Feingold bill, which created 527 groups in the first place...

 

[GG-Duo]

dear Lord, are we STILL paying attention to this?

 

[Drensch]

Yet another Bush Flip flop.

 

[StoOgE]

McCain should kick George Bush and Karl Rove in the balls.. but McCain wants to be president in 4 years, so he wont.

 

[Mandark]

Just as Kerry judo-flipped the issue from the Swiftvets' accusations to the ties they had to he Bush campaign, Bush is now trying to shift the issue to liberal 527's like MoveOn.

Only Bush doesn't oppose 527's. He has helped raise gobs and gobs of money for the Republican Congressional Committee and the Republican Senatorial Committee. Yet he says that he thought Feingold-McCain got rid of 527's? The only question is whether he's that stupid, or that disingenuous.

 

[FoneBone]

The only question is whether he's that stupid, or that disingenuous.

I vote stupid.

 

[StoOgE]

here is an idea:

you should know what is in the laws you are signing instead of doing whatever it takes to pass your stupid tax cut.

 

[DarienA]

here is an idea:

you should know what is in the laws you are signing instead of doing whatever it takes to pass your stupid tax cut.

Awesome post. IAWTP!

 

[hooo]

SCARBOROUGH: And what did Senator Kerry say to you in response?

DOLE: He said, “I haven’t spent one dime in my campaign on a negative ad.”

Well, he doesn’t have to. He’s got George Soros, who put in $15 million. He’s got Harold Ickes up there cranking out millions of dollars of ads. He’s got his former campaign manager in Boston in another group called Bringing America Together.

President Bush to his credit, and I wish John Kerry would follow suit, said, “Let’s stop all these so-called 527 ads, all these soft money ads that have been so critical. Let’s talk about the issues.”

And the American people, they like to know that you’re a veteran, or not a veteran—you know, they actually don’t like some of the negatives and all this. But they also like to know what’s going to happen next year, not what happened 30 or 35 years ago.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, Senator, we’ve been talking for the past week now about the fact that Harold Ickes was holed up in the Four Seasons in Boston with Democratic fundraisers and John Kerry’s top contributors for an entire week during the Democratic National Convention.

And yet, nobody wrote about his 527 ad and the $20 million that he raised for ACT. Nobody talked about the fact that John Kerry’s former campaign manager is running this Media Fund, which also is spending millions and millions of dollars.

You go Mr. Dole.

It's rather pathetic to see all this Bush hate on the 527 issue. He's said that he doesn't like ANY of the 527's and has challenged Kerry to say the same. What more can he do other than say he doesn't like them, and why should he condemn just the swift vets and not all the others running ads for Kerry? The single-mindedness and hate of some people on this board is disgusting. Take off your blinders and realize that while you despise Bush to your core, that doesn't make the opposition the Virgin Mary in white.

 

[SolidSnakex]

"What more can he do other than say he doesn't like them, and why should he condemn just the swift vets and not all the others running ads for Kerry?"

Because according to Mccain, the main he's now asking to help remove these ads, they're disrespectful and not honest. That's why he should ask them to be removed specifically. Kerry recently removed an ad that had McCain in it when McCain requested that he not run it anymore.

 

[Mandark]

It's rather pathetic to see all this Bush hate on the 527 issue. He's said that he doesn't like ANY of the 527's and has challenged Kerry to say the same. What more can he do other than say he doesn't like them, and why should he condemn just the swift vets and not all the others running ads for Kerry? The single-mindedness and hate of some people on this board is disgusting. Take off your blinders and realize that while you despise Bush to your core, that doesn't make the opposition the Virgin Mary in white.

But Bush has been raising money for and supporting 527's for years. And the main issue is not the 527 funding in general, but the dishonesty of this smear campaign in particular.

Oh yeah, try to play nice. I'd hate to cut your stay here short.

 

[happyfunball]

Damn people!

There's NOTHING WRONG with 527 groups(they are legal)!

The only problem with the swift boat bitches is that they ARE LYING(illegal)!!!!!

That simple(although I'm sure its not if you got GW's knob in your throat)

 

[KingV]

Actually, I think what's apparent from the swift vets debacle is that Kerry has either been lying, exagerrating greatly, or mistaken about some details of his tour as CO of a swiftboat in Vietnam. The number of things his campaign has stepped back on is pretty astounding. Kerry's campaign has changed its stance on the Cambodia issue and the first purple heart quite a bit. That said, I don't really approve of the swift vets because it's taking a focus off of more important issues. I'm not sure what it means to criticize someone for something he did 35 years ago in a time of war. Clearly, people change significantly in that time.

The only somewhat relevant point the swift boat vets have made is that of the Cambodia issue, since it's clear that John Kerry has been telling a half-truth about it for a number of years since the War. Though, he's definitely not the only veteran to embellish war stories. I think it's well known that I'm not a big Kerry fan, but it's not because of his actions during the Vietnam War. I'm personally not into his stances on many issues since then, and he seems slimey.

The whole swift vets issue has made a bad election worse. The whole scheme is Vote Bush or the guy who isn't Bush. Even if Kerry wins, I have a feeling he'll be lame duck from day one, as he seems to have nobody passionate about him winning, other than they dislike Bush more than him. Howard Dean, though I disagree with his politics was an excellent public speaker, and truly believed in what he was selling, which is refreshing in politics. He would have been a presidential disaster, however, imho.

Unfortunately, McCain I think is coming out of this looking the worst. I like his politics relatively well, as he's pretty moderate socially, but this issue is making him seem like sour grapes for losing the nomination to Bush in 2000. Not sure if this is the case or not, but that's how it comes across.

 

[Drensch]

Actually, I think what's apparent from the swift vets debacle is that Kerry has either been lying, exagerrating greatly, or mistaken about some details of his tour as CO of a swiftboat in Vietnam.

No. If anything it's more and more apparent that what he says, what the navy says, and what everyone credible says is all in agreement. The only people who dispute it are a bunch of disgruntled partisan hacks, who can't seem to get their own stories straight.

Unfortunately, McCain I think is coming out of this looking the worst. I like his politics relatively well, as he's pretty moderate socially, but this issue is making him seem like sour grapes for losing the nomination to Bush in 2000. Not sure if this is the case or not, but that's how it comes across.

If anything this makes McCain come across as the most popular politician amongst americans. He does kinda look like a wuss the way he still endorses Bush after all the mud he's slung at MccCain and everyone else.

 

[HAOHMARU]

Unfortunately, McCain I think is coming out of this looking the worst. I like his politics relatively well, as he's pretty moderate socially, but this issue is making him seem like sour grapes for losing the nomination to Bush in 2000. Not sure if this is the case or not, but that's how it comes across.

I think McCain looks fine after this. He called for the SBVFT ads to stop because they were taking focus away from the important issues. He also asked Kerry to pull the ad that used statements against Bush. In the ad McCain confronted Bush about a person he was associated with claiming McCain "abandoned the Veterans." (Mind you the ad didn't have Bush's response to McCain where he condemed the person who said that about McCain and also condemed that person for making similar comments about his own father. It was nothing more than a liberal political spin to get people to believe that Bush has a history of attacking veterans that he is running against.)

McCain seems to be the middle man in the 527 fiasco. I think Bush is making the right move with McCain to try and block the 527s. Bush has already said he wanted to put a stop to the 527 ads. While he didn't address the SBVFT group directly to tell them to stop he said that was one of the ones that should stop in a public announcemnet. (he shouldn't have to address them directly anyway, he is the fucking President and has better things to do than to yeild to the Kerry's campaign whinning)

Just to put things in prospective. The SBVFT hasn't even hit $1 million in funding, even with a top Republican donating $200K. Moveon.org which has attacked Bush's military record has recieved $5 million from 1 person...I'm not sure of their total ammount, but that is more than 5 times the ammount of the total SBVFT group has.

Both sides need to stop these mud slinging groups. It is not just the anti-Kerry 527 groups that need to be focused on, it is also the anti-Bush 527 groups who have totaled well over $65 million in funding.

 

[shoplifter]

Both sides need to stop these mud slinging groups. It is not just the anti-Kerry 527 groups that need to be focused on, it is also the anti-Bush 527 groups who have totaled well over $65 million in funding.

Yeah, let's just restrict peoples' right to free political speech.

The groups that need to be focused on are the ones that LIE, regardless of their political agenda.

 

[HAOHMARU]

Yeah, let's just restrict peoples' right to free political speech.

The groups that need to be focused on are the ones that LIE, regardless of their political agenda.

Who said anything about restricting peoples right of free speech? I said mud slinging...which is "lies" as you say, spinning words, and taking statements out of context. Both sides of 527 groups are guilty of this.

And if my using the word "stop" for these groups is to harsh...then how about more restrictions? How about a max $2000 contribution? How about if the contribution is more than that make it taxable?

“I want to emphasize if I could that we’re not saying that 527s should be abolished. We’re just saying they should live under the same campaign finance restrictions (as hard money groups) because they are engaged in partisan activity.”

McCain added: “I’ve said before I would like for the president to specifically condemn that ad, but the president has said John Kerry served honorably and also the president is now committed to acting to try to bring 527s into regulations that are appropriate.”

WTF...now I give up. Some people on here are to agrivating.

 

[KingV]

I haven't seen Any official word from the Navy involving the Kerry swift vets thing. If you deny that his campaign has drastically changed its official account of Kerry's Vietnam service to more closely match the swift vets account, especially in the Cambodia issue, you have your "fanboy blinders" on.

Frankly, McCain's military record should be above reproach. No matter how good/bad of an officer he was, he was a freaking POW for years. I was too young to realize it at the time but attacking McCain on his Vietnam service was in very poor taste in the 2000 primary.