David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Jesus man try not to sound so excited about it. Imprisoning someone isn't something we're supposed to do with a grin and a hard-on.
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California death penalty ruled unconstitutional
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Jesus man try not to sound so excited about it. Imprisoning someone isn't something we're supposed to do with a grin and a hard-on.
Stormhammer
Member
Yet some of these people have escaped only to murder more people. Do we just lock them up again..?
Sure.
But what of the people executed who were later found to be innocent?
I think in that case the very least you can do is execute the jury that found them guilty.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I'm not excited about it, at all. I think the system as a whole needs extensive work, but I am strongly against the death penalty. The only alternative is life imprisonment.
I apologize if it came off that way, but I'm just trying to look at it from a different perspective.
A lot of states prohibit a death sentence ---> possibility of parole. It is highly unlikely (perhaps even impossible, I don't know specific laws) that an ex death row inmate will walk free.
He gets out when he no longer represents an immediate danger to others.
Basileus777
Member
The expense issue alone shows how impractical the death penalty is.
dorkimoe
Gold Member
there are famous serial killers who i read about growing up that are still on death row out there. Just end them already
Narpas Sword0
Member
It shouldn't be easy for the state to take the life of the citizen
Even if we had a fair and impartial criminal justice system, which we don't
Stormhammer
Member
Right, but as I stated earlier, people have escaped and murdered again, and there have been death row inmates who were put on parole who have murdered again as well. Why even give them the opportunity? Those whom they've slain have no second chance.
Man, you're really desperate to see people get killed, aren't you?
How about abolishing it altogether and save a ton of tax payer money?
HUELEN10
Member
It doesn't have to cost that much, they could streamline it; I totally believe it's possible.
Narpas Sword0
Member
There are police who kill innocent people and still walk around with badges and guns, what should we do about that? Perhaps acknowledge that our criminal justice system is ineffective at weeding out the dangerous and the innocent and is in no position to extinguish human lives.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/13/us/california-homeless-beating-verdict/
Never mind the disproportionate conviction and sentencing along racial lines.
Yes, they really need to streamline the process for which an uneducated, black adolescent can be killed by their institutionally racist State. Sounds like a great idea and think of the savings!
I mean, it won't do anything useful like reducing violent crime or reducing the risk of innocent or vulnerable people being executed but the SAVINGS!
How can someone get out of the death penalty on parole?
HUELEN10
Member
With all due respect, I don't what any of your reply has to do with my comment; all I said was that I think it is very possible to streamline the process financially. I never said anything about exact monetary savings amounts, or race, or anything else.
benjipwns
Banned
Yeah, but what if we like want someone dead but don't want to do it ourselves and need some "authority" to say it's okay?
1. I believe it's immoral to kill someone, so no. Unless my life or someone I knew or saw were in immediate danger I'd do everything I could to not kill a person, but I would kill if I forced to.
2. If you're going the revenge route, why would I kill anyone? That's giving them the easy way out. If you're dead, you're not paying for your crimes. You're in oblivion. You don't even exist in any form. So that doesn't make sense.
Stormhammer
Member
benjipwns
Banned
His sentence was commuted. Unless you take that power away, then that "loophole" won't ever not exist.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
He's saying that that's what the death penalty is, and instead of wanting to get rid of it you want to make it cheaper and more efficient.
I did too. Not on moral grounds but because the reality is the system wastes too much time and money. It isn't feasible.
Unfortunately for your pal, the Founding Fathers anticipated this response and disallowed it in the first set of amendments to their founding document.
Murder. She Wrote
Member
I voted to ban the death penalty last time it came up a couple years ago. The majority of californians disagreed with me 
Sethtimus Prime
Neo Member
Don't wait so long in between executions... Profit!
I'm mostly bothered by the cost to the American taxpayer to keep these people in prison. Execute quicker, and don't imprison people for so long for such minor infractions.
I'm mostly bothered by the cost to the American taxpayer to keep these people in prison. Execute quicker, and don't imprison people for so long for such minor infractions.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Good news. We can do better.
So the penalty for killing someone....is to kill someone. Terrific, marvellous, clearly a gold standard of justice there.
There's been too many cockups in British justice down the years for me to ever believe in an irreversible sentence.
If one person, just ONE innocent person loses their life because the state deliberated and chose to kill them then that should invalidate the sentencing method as a whole. Lord knows there's examples, and I hope each and every judge, jury and executioner lies awake at night wracked with guilt over it.
What Breivik did was inhuman. But to take his life in return is not a solution. All that does is prove how brutal the state can be. If hanging was still happening here I would campaign against it because it serves no practical purpose in a society that can see past the end of the 18th century.
Angelus Errare
Banned
How is killing them proper punishment exactly? We're not an "eye for an eye" society.
Somehow I think you'd be singing a different tune if it were a family member on death row for a crime they didn't commit.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Hmmm....sounds fine by me.
Reading the Innocence Project is enough for me to abolish the death penalty. If that many people were on death row exonerated when new evidence emerged, I shudder to think the amount of innocent people who were put to death who weren't so lucky, one is already too many. Those people will never have justice to the authorities of police, judges, prosecutors, etc that murdered them.
Reading the Innocence Project is enough for me to abolish the death penalty. If that many people were on death row exonerated when new evidence emerged, I shudder to think the amount of innocent people who were put to death who weren't so lucky, one is already too many. Those people will never have justice to the authorities of police, judges, prosecutors, etc that murdered them.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
It's remarkable how America has in many cases made a quiet turnaround on the death penalty; circumscription of the death penalty against minors and those with mental or cognitive impairments over the last ten years; several states have abolished after a long post-Gregg period of retention (New Jersey, New York, Illinois, Maryland, New Mexico, Connecticut); others have suspended the penalty without abolishing (North Carolina, California, Oregon, Arkansas, Washington, possibly Oklahoma soon)l others are facing largely successful legal challenges (Nebraska, Kentucky, now California); the European export ban on thiopental; the failure of the Ohio injection cocktail.
Of course this does not imply fewer executions, as most of these states rare or never executed. Half of all post-Gregg executions in the US took place in Texas, Oklahoma, or Florida. California is notable because of its enormous death row (750 people), but factually rarely executed anyone to begin with (13 since Greg) and has had a de facto moratorium for some time now (compounded by the fact that Jerry Brown is a devout Catholic and I suspect would not sign a death warrant).
Finally, of those states that voted for Obama in 2012, only the following maintain the death penalty actively (no current bar to executing people, has executed people post-Gregg):
Delaware - No executions in last 2 years, 3 in last 10 years
Florida - 15 executions in last 2 years, 29 in last 10 years
Ohio - 6 executions in last 2 years, 38 in the last 10 years
Nevada - No executions in last 2 years, 2 in last 10 years
Virginia - 1 execution in last 2 years, 17 in last 10 years.
Given that both Nevada and Delaware seem unlikely to move to execute anyone any further, and the three remaining states are Obama's narrowest wins, we are quickly approaching a position where only Republican states execute people. This is maybe something worth considering, not because it is inherently right or wrong, but rather because it suggests that the use of execution has become a partisan issue rather than a neutral and agreed upon method of punishment.
Of course this does not imply fewer executions, as most of these states rare or never executed. Half of all post-Gregg executions in the US took place in Texas, Oklahoma, or Florida. California is notable because of its enormous death row (750 people), but factually rarely executed anyone to begin with (13 since Greg) and has had a de facto moratorium for some time now (compounded by the fact that Jerry Brown is a devout Catholic and I suspect would not sign a death warrant).
Finally, of those states that voted for Obama in 2012, only the following maintain the death penalty actively (no current bar to executing people, has executed people post-Gregg):
Delaware - No executions in last 2 years, 3 in last 10 years
Florida - 15 executions in last 2 years, 29 in last 10 years
Ohio - 6 executions in last 2 years, 38 in the last 10 years
Nevada - No executions in last 2 years, 2 in last 10 years
Virginia - 1 execution in last 2 years, 17 in last 10 years.
Given that both Nevada and Delaware seem unlikely to move to execute anyone any further, and the three remaining states are Obama's narrowest wins, we are quickly approaching a position where only Republican states execute people. This is maybe something worth considering, not because it is inherently right or wrong, but rather because it suggests that the use of execution has become a partisan issue rather than a neutral and agreed upon method of punishment.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I fully support the death penalty.
The appeals process should be improved for each inmate on death row. 2 years per inmate max.
In theory. In reality it's too flawed and biased in its implementation to be of any benefit to society.
The appeals process should be improved for each inmate on death row. 2 years per inmate max.
Death is no punishment. It's liberation.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I think when one breaks into a house. Ties a family up, steals their shit, rapes the occupants then lights the house on fire and leaves everyone to a horrible death I think that person forfeits their right to exist.
Problem is when appeals takes 20 years. Or when you have prosecutors that willingly hide key evidence to secure a conviction just to further their political career.
So yea, in theory I have zero problems with putting a child rapist murderer to death. In reality the system's too flawed and corrupt to really have a death penalty.
speculawyer
Member
I don't really care whether we have a death penalty or not . . . but at this point, they might as well scrap it because it is such a long expensive process that it just isn't worth it. And the rationale used by this judge.
I mean this is something reasonable people can disagree on.
But I think that a revenge view of punishment doesn't benefit society. Think we should look at how we can rehabilitate these offenders and still keep them away from society if they're dangerous.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I don't view it as revenge. I just think murderers need to be removed from our species. No fuss. No muss.
Of course I also believe overwhelmingly that the majority of criminals can be rehabilitated. But I don't believe everyone can. Especially when they commit especially heinous crimes. I'm not talking about putting coke dealers to death, lol.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Against the death penalty. Bout time this country ends it forever. Heathens.
I'm sure the executed are loving their lives in other dimensions rather than sitting in a cell.
I'm sure the executed are loving their lives in other dimensions rather than sitting in a cell.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
so basically what makes the death penalty unconstitutional in california is that they're not executing enough people.
Kano on the Phone
Member
Good news. There's no place for the death penalty in a decent society. If murder is heinous, and we all agree on that, then we shouldn't be murderers via the proxy of the state.
Good post sir.
It is revenge if the goal is removal and the punishment goes beyond mere removal, which can be accomplished by incarceration.
Well said, and agreed.
Honestly though, even if the legal process were 100% perfect and could determine guilt with 0 errors, I think I'd still be against the death penalty. How are we to call ourselves civilized and commit the barbaric act of murder as retribution to crimes? Nothing will undo the crimes committed. If the incarcerated individual is still a danger to society, keep them locked up of course, but killing them doesn't really help anyone.
Yup. Agreed.
vas_a_morir
Banned
It's funny, because if you disagree with this decision, you might say 'the courts got it wrong.' but, if the courts can get it wrong from time to time, then how can you trust them to get it right when it comes to the lives of the accused?
Death penalty is most useful in scaring people into confessing or taking plea bargains. It can scare an innocent man, after being lied to by police, into confessing to anything to avoid it. For example, The Norfolk Four.
Death penalty is most useful in scaring people into confessing or taking plea bargains. It can scare an innocent man, after being lied to by police, into confessing to anything to avoid it. For example, The Norfolk Four.
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