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[Mr. Durden]

Sony recently recent the DSC- WX1, and my God it's amazing. The specs are great:

-10 mp
-5x optical zoom
-24 mm wide angle
-3200 ISO
-2,7 inch screen
-intelligent auto
-720p movie

Just like with Canon we see they went back from 12 to 10 megapixels to reduce the amount of noise in the picture. The 24 mm wide angle is great, but not exclusive to the Sony. The movie mode is fun, but the only actually good thing about it is the resolution, overall quality still sucks like with all compact cameras. But the thing that is reponsable for the big change is the CMOS chip instead of the traditional CCD chip. Now they already released the DSC-HX1 superzoom camera with the same CMOS (they call it EXMOR) chip a little while before and aside from some nice extra's like the Panaroma Sweep mode (just sweep the camera and you've got an awesome panaroma photo) and 10 fps the CMOS chip didn't add a whole lot the competition (mainly Panasonic) couldn't match and even surpass with their superzoom cameras.

With the WX1 however there is a difference. It still has the Panaroma and 10 fps burst mode of course, but also seems to realise that what a CMOS chip should do in terms of photo quality... surpass the CCD. At work we compared shots all made in the IA mode of all cams; Canon IXUS 120, Panasonic DMC TZ7 and FX40, Olympus MJU 7020 and of course the Sony DSC WX 1. To our big suprise the WX 1 made the best pictures in darker areas (no flash). There was the least amount of noise (there was hardly any) and the colors didn't change, white stayed white (where as it turns yellowish with all others). Simply amazing. And of course you can adjust camera settings with every camera to make it look better (although manual settings are slowly disappearing), but 90% of the people want it to be as easy as possible. Which also brings us to the point of the IA (intelligent auto), which works really fast with the WX1 compared to the mode in other camera brands. Sony really did something amazing here.

 

[mrkgoo]

Not to knock it, but why does this need its own thread? Seems like it would've fit well in the megathread. That said, sounds interesting, and thanks for the heads up.

 

[UFRA]

But the price will probably make me cry.

Oh well, I love Sony cameras.

 

[Why would you do that?]

Unfortunately, I know little about what you're saying, and little about cameras in general, but I'm looking for a new camera, and if this is a good choice (especially with the good quality indoor shots), and under 250 or so... then I may get it, I guess.

 

[mrkgoo]

Hmm looks interesting.

I've always liked the Sony Cybershot series. The W series was always pretty much the T series, but in a slightly thicker form factor and different lens.

I guess this is the 'high-end' of compact cameras (distinguishing them from super zooms, or enthusiast P&S like Panasonic LX3, or Canon G11).

Perhaps in the range of the Canon S90.

 

[Mr. Durden]

Unfortunately, I know little about what you're saying, and little about cameras in general, but I'm looking for a new camera, and if this is a good choice (especially with the good quality indoor shots), and under 250 or so... then I may get it, I guess.

Unfortunately I live in Europe and know nothing about the american prices. But if you're lookinf for a high-end compact camera, at the moment this seems like the perfect choice. Considering buying it myself as well.

 

[mrkgoo]

Unfortunately I live in Europe and know nothing about the american prices. But if you're lookinf for a high-end compact camera, at the moment this seems like the perfect choice. Considering buying it myself as well.

According to DPreview, this camera is set to retail at $350.

 

[Totakeke]

With the WX1 however there is a difference. It still has the Panaroma and 10 fps burst mode of course, but also seems to realise that what a CMOS chip should do in terms of photo quality... surpass the CCD. At work we compared shots all made in the IA mode of all cams; Canon IXUS 120, Panasonic DMC TZ7 and FX40, Olympus MJU 7020 and of course the Sony DSC WX 1. To our big suprise the WX 1 made the best pictures in darker areas (no flash). There was the least amount of noise (there was hardly any) and the colors didn't change, white stayed white (where as it turns yellowish with all others). Simply amazing. And of course you can adjust camera settings with every camera to make it look better (although manual settings are slowly disappearing), but 90% of the people want it to be as easy as possible. Which also brings us to the point of the IA (intelligent auto), which works really fast with the WX1 compared to the mode in other camera brands. Sony really did something amazing here.

Surprise? Those cameras aren't even in the same category as the WX1. Compare it against a lower "tier" and of course you'll get better results.

WX1's category should have cameras like Canon Powershot S90/G10/G11, Panasonic Lumix LX3, Nikon P6000, and what else. WX1 is indeed looking pretty good so far, but that review isn't exactly doing a fair comparison.

 

[mrkgoo]

Surprise? Those cameras aren't even in the same category as the WX1. Compare it against a lower "tier" and of course you'll get better results.

WX1's category should have cameras like Canon Powershot S90/G10/G11, Panasonic Lumix LX3, Nikon P6000, and what else. WX1 is indeed looking pretty good so far, but that review isn't exactly doing a fair comparison.

s90 maybe, but I think the G10/11 and LX3 are different classes.

Even the s90 might be slightly higher than it (not necessarily in image quality).

 

[Mr. Durden]

Surprise? Those cameras aren't even in the same category as the WX1. Compare it against a lower "tier" and of course you'll get better results.

WX1's category should have cameras like Canon Powershot S90/G10/G11, Panasonic Lumix LX3, Nikon P6000, and what else. WX1 is indeed looking pretty good so far, but that review isn't exactly doing a fair comparison.

No not really since most of those cams belong in a totally different price range. The G10/G11 cams are at least 200 euro more expensive. Same goes for the LX3. And even though the Nikon P6000 is priced a lot higher as well it doesn't even take better pictures than the Panasonic DMC FX40. Considering it's price the Sony WX1 should be compared to those lower end cameras.

 

[Totakeke]

s90 maybe, but I think the G10/11 and LX3 are different classes.

In terms about the compactness of the camera and what it could do within that size, yeah I would agree. But WX1 is still priced higher than the cameras it's being compared to there except TZ7 which is a superzoom compact anyway. I guess the fairest would be to compare across the different ranges since WX1 is pretty unique in a way.

No not really since most of those cams belong in a totally different price range. The G10/G11 cams are at least 200 euro more expensive. Same goes for the LX3. And even though the Nikon P6000 is priced a lot higher as well it doesn't even take better pictures than the Panasonic DMC FX40. Considering it's price the Sony WX1 should be compared to those lower end cameras.

No clue about euro, but LX3 and G10 is only usd50 and the latter usd100 more expensive. And those are the prices from one year ago. WX1 is one year newer, so the difference isn't that much. As what I said above. It's fairer to compare across the range, the low end cameras you're talking about are also cheaper than WX1, that's not fair either, right?

 

[Mr. Durden]

In terms about the compactness of the camera and what it could do within that size, yeah I would agree. But WX1 is still priced higher than the cameras it's being compared to there except TZ7 which is a superzoom compact anyway. I guess the fairest would be to compare across the different ranges since WX1 is pretty unique in a way.



No clue about euro, but LX3 and G10 is only usd50 and the latter usd100 more expensive. And those are the prices from one year ago. WX1 is one year newer, so the difference isn't that much. As what I said above. It's fairer to compare across the range, the low end cameras you're talking about are also cheaper than WX1, that's not fair either, right?

Well than the price difference between the US and Europe is big.
Retail:
Panasonic DMC TZ 7 = 377e
Sony DSC WX 1 = 359e
Olympus MJU 7020 = 329e
Canon IXUS 120 = 329e

Canon Powershot G11 = 629e
Panasonic LX3 = 479e (it's even an old camera)

So for the european market it has to be compared to the cameras I mentioned.

 

[Instigator]

nonsensical memory card support: Memory Stick PRO Duo

No thanks.

 

[olore]

Interesting specs. I`m after a D-SLR but these enthusiast PS cameras migth be all i need. Been looking at G10, LX3 a few Ricohs etcetc. That 24mm wideangle sounds very interesting and 10fps. You have a link to this camera?

And i agree that a camera as niche, in a way, as this should be compared not only on price against it rivals.

 

[Totakeke]

Yeah, it seems that the prices are quite different there. The prices of the lower end ones aren't that close either.

To our big suprise the WX 1 made the best pictures in darker areas (no flash). There was the least amount of noise (there was hardly any) and the colors didn't change, white stayed white (where as it turns yellowish with all others). Simply amazing.

Anyway, general impression from forums seems to be that WX1 is great at low light shooting, but daylight shooting is kinda bad and produces dull colors.

 

[radioheadrule83]

The panorama sweep sounds like an interesting and cool feature...

I recently picked up the Canon Powershot SX200 and I love it. Its a travelzoom type camera, most comparable to the Panasonic TZ series of cameras... 12x Optical Zoom, decent 12.1 megapixel CCD, DIGIC 4 image processor (same processor as in the EOS 50D I think)... the Auto mode is great. It can do all the nice face-finding, face-prioritizing type stuff I've come to enjoy from recent Sony Cybershot cameras and phones. There's apeture-priority and shutter-speed priority modes, and a full manual mode for full control of ISO/S.Speed/Apeture/Focus, all controllable with a scroll wheel around the d-pad on the back of the camera. You can do exposures as long as 15 seconds, which means you can do some nice / cool things at night with the camera. There's only Normal and Fine modes, no super-fine, so I don't know what kind of compression is going on in the images, but I took a great zoomed in shot of the moon last night with my tripod and did a crop -- and it looks great. I can post some images when I get home if anyone's interested.

I paid £240 for it and I'm very happy. Cheaper than a DSLR and not as flexible, but very nice imo.

Only noticeable drawbacks for me are:
- no viewfinder (but the screen works pretty well even in direct sunlight)
- the flash module pops out of the top by default. You can hold it down when you don't want to use it and the software automatically turns flash off, you can do so without risking any mechanism - it seems to be by design that you hold it down or turn it off in software to *not* use it - but some people find it annoying.

 

[Mr. Durden]

Yeah, it seems that the prices are quite different there. The prices of the lower end ones aren't that close either.



Anyway, general impression from forums seems to be that WX1 is great at low light shooting, but daylight shooting is kinda bad and produces dull colors.

I'm at work now (posting this from my mobile, therefore the lack of links and pictures), so will try some daylight shots to compare. It's not sunny though. Will post back to share results.

 

[Mr. Durden]

*edit* double post :/

 

[Mr. Durden]

Interesting specs. I`m after a D-SLR but these enthusiast PS cameras migth be all i need. Been looking at G10, LX3 a few Ricohs etcetc. That 24mm wideangle sounds very interesting and 10fps. You have a link to this camera?

And i agree that a camera as niche, in a way, as this should be compared not only on price against it rivals.

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/dsc-w-series/dsc-wx1#pageType=Overview

The best thing about the 10fps is that it's at full resolution, the big difference between this camera and most other compact cameras.

I tested daylight pictures with some other cameras since the weather cleared up.
WX 1 compared to:
-Panasonic DMC TZ 7 = WX 1 better. Might be matter of taste, but all of my colleagues agreed on this. Maybe due to the fact that the WX 1 quickly changed 'scene' in the IA mode while the Panasonic didn't.
-Olympus Mju 7020 = WX 1 better. Pretty much conclusive.
-Powershot G11 = G11 is better, except for the clear blue sky itself which is off on the G11 (same as with the G10, had a lot of customers complaining about it as well). However since this camera is 250€ more expensive... well it has to be better.

Compared the WX 1 shots to the Sony D-Slr a 230 and Canon EOS 1000D (in the US it has a different name), but yeah it's not that good either :lol

 

[kaching]

I'm not really sure what the big deal was with noise at 12mp...the Sony W300 handles it very well, better than cameras I've tried with lower MP. Is the MP stepdown really because of noise or is it because they're transitioning from CCD to CMOS?

 

[bionic77]

I am in the market for a new compact point and shoot camera.

How does this one compare to the Canon SD 980 IS?

The Canon seems to be cheaper and have the same or better specs. It was recommended to me in another thread I started a few days ago.

 

[chaostrophy]

Panasonic LX3 = 479e (it's even an old camera)

About the LX3 being "old", Panasonic is still working on firmware for it that adds features. There was a firmware 2.0 that was released briefly, taken down due to a couple of bugs, and 2.1 is apparently coming soon. So I wonder if they've reached the point where they can't really squeeze any more image quality out of a small sensor, and have taken the path of giving their customers updates in firmware for free instead of releasing a barely improved new camera and trying to get them to upgrade. If true, that's great support.

 

[andycapps]

This thread made me shed a bit of a tear. My Sony compact camera is probably dead. Everytime I turn it on, the lens comes out, goes back in, and comes out again for a few times until it tells me to turn it off and turn it back on again. Took it apart as much as possible to see if anything was losose and everything looked ok. Still doing it. :/

I think it's the Sony DSC-W90. Any suggestions from anyone? It's well out of warranty.

 

[Totakeke]

About the LX3 being "old", Panasonic is still working on firmware for it that adds features. There was a firmware 2.0 that was released briefly, taken down due to a couple of bugs, and 2.1 is apparently coming soon. So I wonder if they've reached the point where they can't really squeeze any more image quality out of a small sensor, and have taken the path of giving their customers updates in firmware for free instead of releasing a barely improved new camera and trying to get them to upgrade. If true, that's great support.

1. Improved auto white balance performance.
2. Auto Focus speed-up. (~20%)
3. Recording function with an aspect ratio of 1:1 has been added.
4. A white balance (WB) bracket function has been added.
5. [HIGH DYNAMIC] has been added to scene mode.
6. [LENS RESUME] has been added to the [SETUP] menu.
7. [MENU RESUME] has been added to the [SETUP] menu.
8. The exposure compensation and the auto bracket compensation can now be set up to ±3EV.
9. Position of the guide line can now be set.
10. It is now possible to display the highlights in playback mode.
11. It is now possible to record the user’s name in the picture.
12. Digital red-eye removal has been modified.
13. Items saved in the custom set have changed.
14. Decreased minimum macro shooting distance.

Yup, it's great support for a year old camera.

Doesn't explain why LX3 has been on low/out of stock since its release though. :lol

 

[POWERSPHERE]

About the LX3 being "old", Panasonic is still working on firmware for it that adds features. There was a firmware 2.0 that was released briefly, taken down due to a couple of bugs, and 2.1 is apparently coming soon. So I wonder if they've reached the point where they can't really squeeze any more image quality out of a small sensor, and have taken the path of giving their customers updates in firmware for free instead of releasing a barely improved new camera and trying to get them to upgrade. If true, that's great support.

If true I might buy a digital camera again. The rate of irrelevance in digital stuff blows my mind.

 

[Prez]

Here's some great looking sample pics I found of the WX-1:
Sample 1
Sample 2
Sample 3
Sample 4
Sample 5
Sample 6
Sample 7
Sample 8
Sample 9
Sample 10

Some smaller ones:
Sample 1
Sample 2
Sample 3
Sample 4
Sample 5
Sample 6
Sample 7
Sample 8
Sample 9

 

[thirty]

This camera needs to be compared to the likes of the Panasonic LX3, the Canon G11/S90, and the Fuji F200/F70.

 

[ghostmind]

I guess this is a good place to ask?

I have a Canon SX10IS - its great , but I'm sick of lugging it around. I want a smaller slimline camera that can take decent pics and record HD video in a format that my PS3 will recognize natively without transcoding. I would prefer SD card media, but will accept Memory Stick if I have to.

All that being said, is this camera my best bet, or is there another?


EDIT: where is the regular camera thread?

 

[kaching]

Here's some great looking sample pics I found of the WX-1:
Sample 1
Sample 2
Sample 3
Sample 4
Sample 5

A lot of noise in the full-size of those. :\

 

[cbox]

Here's some great looking sample pics I found of the WX-1:
Sample 1
Sample 2
Sample 3
Sample 4
Sample 5
Sample 6
Sample 7
Sample 8
Sample 9
Sample 10

Those are terrible

 

[Instigator]

Sony strikes back... and fails!

 

[Prez]

A lot of noise in the full-size of those. :\

Why would you even judge the full-size pictures? If the 1024x768 pics look great I'm happy.

 

[cbox]

Why would you even judge the full-size pictures? If the 1024x768 pics look great I'm happy.

lol come on now

 

[Totakeke]

Why would you even judge the full-size pictures? If the 1024x768 pics look great I'm happy.

You don't need to pay a premium for that, that's why.

Plus current compact cameras can never really go past ISO 800 (400 even) without significant noise no matter how good they are.

 

[kaching]

Why would you even judge the full-size pictures? If the 1024x768 pics look great I'm happy.

For...a variety of reasons...

because I have an existing camera (Sony W series even) that exhibits better noise control than that

because I *like* to look at the details in photographs. Not pixel-peeping, just like to see fine detail that isn't marred badly by noise.

because I have a 1920x1080 monitor, so why would I want to look at photos that are only 1/2 that resolution taken on a camera that's supposed to be capable of 10 times this resolution?

because, what if I want to do larger prints of these photos?

 

[BlueTsunami]

f/2.4 variable aperture lens. The Canon and Panasonic f/2 offerings pwn this. PWN IT.

 

[CurlySaysX]

I doubt people who are after poster sized resolutions would even consider purchasing a compact. just saying.

 

[bionic77]

I guess this is a good place to ask?

I have a Canon SX10IS - its great , but I'm sick of lugging it around. I want a smaller slimline camera that can take decent pics and record HD video in a format that my PS3 will recognize natively without transcoding. I would prefer SD card media, but will accept Memory Stick if I have to.

All that being said, is this camera my best bet, or is there another?


EDIT: where is the regular camera thread?

I started a thread a few days ago asking for a good point and shoot camera and I was told to get a canon sd 980 is. I will order that one soon and give my impressions in the other thread.

 

[Stinkles]

blorf memory sticks.

 

[kaching]

I doubt people who are after poster sized resolutions would even consider purchasing a compact. just saying.

People specifically after poster-sized resolutions, sure. People who may want them occasionally, just want the option to be viable in case they get a pic they'd like to blow-up, different story.

 

[mrkgoo]

I doubt people who are after poster sized resolutions would even consider purchasing a compact. just saying.

It's not just about printing. Creative cropping is very important. Also, I don't think you can discount compacts as something only casual people would get. Most enthusiasts want a compact in addition to their more heavyweight gear. Heck, most professionals want a compact too - something to have with them more often than their pro-gear. For example, say what you will about crazy-head Ken Rockwell, but he's practically in the mood to ditch all his SLRs in favour of a compact (but he says a lot of stuff).

This camera needs to be compared to the likes of the Panasonic LX3, the Canon G11/S90, and the Fuji F200/F70.

Nah, I don't think so. From outward appearances, this Sony cam is great but doesn't offer half the features that many enthusiasts would want - for example, RAW output, manual controls and more physical controls, all of what these cameras above offer (well, not sure about the Fuji - not familiar with those).

This Sony cam may deliver great images for what it is, but it just seems like just a modern P&S compact with a new sensor. Just a great new camera. Not to mention Sony have gone with their own lens manufacture on this one over the typical Carl-Zeiss glass most of their other cams. Not sure what this means (C-Z may just be a marketing thing now more than before, for example). Canon lenses have been pretty good, even on their small cameras.

The reason I'm interested in the s90 is that it has RAW capability - even though I don't use it now, it speaks volumes about where Canon is positioning such a camera, as well as the f/2 with wide angle, and the controls rings on a compact camera. It has the same slightly larger sensor that is in the G11.

 

[MelloBoy]

I doubt people who are after poster sized resolutions would even consider purchasing a compact. just saying.

Some fledgeling pros cary P&S cameras as an emergency backup, especially if they can't afford a second DSLR.

 

[Meier]

I have become so spoiled with the zoom on the TZ5 that I dont think I could ever go back to such a low number like the LX3. The TZ5 definitely has some serious noise in the photos though.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

Noise... Like in recording it can be a good thing, but not in the digital realm as it's charms are more powerful with analog. Tape / film noise = nice. Digital noise = bad.

 

[Unlimited4s]

Those pics are pretty bad :/.
I have a FuijiFilm Finepix F200EXR, a GREAT compact camera which performs surprisingly well with the ISO set to 400 or even 800.
I highly recommend it if you're willing to spend 300 euros on a compact camera.

 

[thirty]

Yes Fuji F series have been the leaders in low light P&S cams. Only recently have Canon, Sony, and Panasonic caught up to the Fujis. That said, outdoors in bright light, Fuji cams aren't the greatest.

I highly suggest though that shoppers look into the Fuji F70. It's the worlds smallest 10X zoom cam and does great in low light and has awesome new modes. Only negative is that it doesn't capture video in HD. At $234 though, the Fuji, IMO, offers more bang for the buck.