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[maximum360]

This is interesting. I've been working for the longest time trying to get my Media Center PC to stream video to my Xbox 360. It never worked so I had to do a fresh install of Windows XP Media Center. Then I happily streaming all kinds of videos (HD and otherwise) without a hitch.

One thing was curious. I downloaded some 1080p WMV samples from Microsoft's site and they also played without a hitch. Of course the tv is saying it's receiving a 1080i signal (even though the video is 1080p). In the dashboard I set the Xbox 360 to output 1080i.

Is the 360 somehow converting the signal to 1080i before sending to my tv via component or is the 1080p signal being sent via component? (I'm thinking the former but I'm not sure.)

I have an SXRD (that officially only take 1080i signals....though some have gotten 1080p of HDMI).

 

[Kleegamefan]

In theory, it should be able to....

It cant output a digital video signal because the video chip is analog, but 1080p video over analog component (as long as it isn't encrypted motion picture video) should be doable...again, in theory...

What the X360 is doing to your WMV clip before sent out to the SXRD, I am not sure about, though....

 

[Blimblim]

Component is supposed not to have enough bandwidth to carry 1080p.
As for your case, it's definitely downconverted to 1080i.

 

[DCX]

If a 1080P signal can be sent through component whats the need for HDMi and DVI?

DCX

 

[BlueTsunami]

If a 1080P signal can be sent through component whats the need for HDMi and DVI?

DCX

Exactly, even early revisions of HDMI do not support full 1080p (at 60Hz). It requires a whole lot of bandwith.

 

[Naked Snake]

If a 1080P signal can be sent through component whats the need for HDMi and DVI?

DCX

The inherent advantages of digital over analog, and security.

 

[DCX]

Exactly, even early revisions of HDMI do not support full 1080p (at 60Hz). It requires a whole lot of bandwith.

So why are people bitching that 360 doesn't have HDMI and PS3 has two? It's like having the capacity to have a third nipple...

DCX

 

[p_xavier]

So why are people bitching that 360 doesn't have HDMI and PS3 has two? It's like having the capacity to have a third nipple...

DCX

HDMI has more than enough bandwith even at 1080P. It uses only half of what it's available, and that includes audio.

 

[DCX]

The inherent advantages of digital over analog, and security.

Over what though? Cost? Security for who? RF singals have been long raped before Napster came into the picture and the market survived...i just think it's a cope out and a way to regulate what we do with our entertainment with the guise of it being "better" for us.

DCX

 

[maximum360]

In theory, it should be able to....

It cant output a digital video signal because the video chip is analog, but 1080p video over analog component (as long as it isn't encrypted motion picture video) should be doable...again, in theory...

What the X360 is doing to your WMV clip before sent out to the SXRD, I am not sure about, though....

That's what I thought as in theory, 1080p can be sent via component. It's analog but but I think it may have the bandwidth to pull it off (though I'm sure the MPAA would have us all believe otherwise). If this wasn't the case though, how would the 360 convert a 1080p signal to 1080i? (This would be the first time I'm hearing of any downconversion in that regard.)

 

[Kleegamefan]

All you need to pass 1080p/60 video is a connector with enough bandwidth (186.6 MHz)....here is the formula:

BW = [(TP x Vt) /2] x 3
Where BW = Bandwidth in Megahertz (MHz)
TP = total pixels (horizontal x vertical)
Vt = picture refresh rate in Hertz (Hz)

Using this formula, we can quickly calculate the minimum bandwidth as follows:

1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels x 60 Hz = 124,416,000. Divide by 2 (62,208,000), then multiply by 3 (for a 3dB bandwidth specification) = 186,624,000, or 186.6 MHz.

As long as you have a connector that can handle 186.6 Mhz it can handle 1080p/60....for 30fps we divide by two....93.3Mhz....this is well within the limits of analog component..


HOWEVER

The *problem* is finding 1080p content that isnt encrypted and so is allowed to be passed via analog video out at full resolution...that is the tougher trick

 

[Raistlin]

Generally, standard component does not have enough bandwidth.

However, there are other non-digital transfer methods that could work ... VGA being the most obvious.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Exactly, even early revisions of HDMI do not support full 1080p (at 60Hz). It requires a whole lot of bandwith.

That is not true at all....it seems certain CE vendors were spreading this misstruth...all HDMI version have at least the option to pass 1080p fromt the very beginning....Stacy Spears over at avsforums it trying to spread the word about this common fallacy....I will look up the thread for you later today....I gotta go right now....

 

[BlueTsunami]

That is not true at all....it seems certain CE vendors were spreading this misstruth...all HDMI version have at least the option to pass 1080p fromt the very beginning....Stacy Spears over at avsforums it trying to spread the word about this common fallacy....I will look up the thread for you later today....I gotta go right now....

Oh ok. I always thought earlier revisions didn't allow for the full bandwith capacity to be used or something (for some reason). Never really questioned it. Its good to hear that, thats not the case.

 

[hooo]

Over what though? Cost? Security for who? RF singals have been long raped before Napster came into the picture and the market survived...i just think it's a cope out and a way to regulate what we do with our entertainment with the guise of it being "better" for us.

DCX

Using digital connections when both the source and the display are digital in nature streamlines the process. For component, the 360 has to convert it's digital stream to analog and then the HDTV (all non crts) has to convert the the analog signal back to digital for display. Information is lost in that process, so why not just cut out the whole analog bit?

The security is called HDCP and it encrypts the video signal so that it can't be copied when it's moving from the player to the TV. Windows Vista will also require an HDCP compatible monitor for displaying HD content.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Oh ok. I always thought earlier revisions didn't allow for the full bandwith capacity to be used or something (for some reason). Never really questioned it. Its good to hear that, thats not the case.

Yeah...I was also under the impression that 1080p wasn't supported till HDMi 1.2, but we now know that isn't the case...

I gotta go, but there is more I would like to add to this thread wrt why HDMI is needed for 1080p...

 

[maximum360]

That is not true at all....it seems certain CE vendors were spreading this misstruth...all HDMI version have at least the option to pass 1080p fromt the very beginning....Stacy Spears over at avsforums it trying to spread the word about this common fallacy....I will look up the thread for you later today....I gotta go right now....

If that's the case, then can't all current 1080p sets with HDMI get a firmware upgrade in order for them to send 1080p via HDMI? I heard that the Qualias were offered an HDMI upgrade that allowed 1080p but that was done via some hardware change.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Here is the update I promised I would post.....it is from Stacey Spears (editor of Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity ) talking about HD-DVD, Blu-ray and HDMI:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=626974&page=2&pp=30

Both formats(HD-DVD and Blu-ray) support both 1080p and 1080i. With MPEG2, AVC and VC1 you can encode as progressive, interlace frame and interlace field. This can be done on a per frame basis.

With 720x480, you can only transmit 29.97 over SDI. Most of the SD MPEG encoders used only support SDI input to create MPEG2 for DVD. With 1920x1080, you can send 1080PsF, 1080p24, 1080i29.97 and 1080p29.97 over HD-SDI into an encoder.

At this point in time there are a lot less encoders for BD and HD-DVD. The main MPEG encoder is from Sony and ONLY works via HD-SDI. The VC1 and AVC encoders mainly work from file formats. So you can actually do 480p24 for AVC and VC1 unlike with the Sony because you are not limited to SDI rules.

Many DVDs are in fact encoded as progressive. The difference between that and the way HD-DVD works is that the encoder for SD has to perform inverse telecine to take the 29.97 w/ 2-3 pulldown and convert it back to true 24p. There are many reasons why this has issues and most of it is on the content side. With HD-DVD starting with a 24p master, you don't have these issues. The RPP and TFF flags are perfect as they are artificially created during encode since you are only storing 24 progressive pictures per second.

If someone wanted to, they could very well use interlace frame and interlace field stlyle encoding for either HD-DVD or BD. At this time, the main AVC encoder does not have interlaced support enabled. That means they can't encode interlaced at all. It should be on in a coming SW update.

I know all of the launch titles in the US for HD-DVD and BD (those studios that are supporting both) with be progressive encoded as they are starting with 1080p24 masters. They will also use the same encoded for both formats because it is quick and cheap. This means that the lowest common demoniator for both formats will be forced onto the encode. So no 40 Mbps peak for any titles released on both formats.

As for HDMI, even 1.0 supports 1080p. That is another lie started by a CE company that goofed up on their RP 1080p set. I won't mention that companys name as that would be rude. [EDIT: the CE company rhymes with "damn hung"]

The output of an HD player can be 1080p or 1080i. That is not the same issue as how the film is stored. I realize there will be people who continue to spread lies about this, but you can believe someone who actually works on the technology or someone who does not, it is your choice.

Pesonally I wish Alan or a mod would close this thread to stop more mis-information from spreading.

For the record my comments are not pro one format or the other. I just want to clear up a lie that keeps being spread. The technology I work on supports both formats.

 

[LuCkymoON]

Here is the update I promised I would post.....it is from Stacey Spears (editor of Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity ) talking about HD-DVD, Blu-ray and HDMI:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=626974&page=2&pp=30

I would like to know which RP set Damn Hung messed up on. I dont want to buy a messed up Damn Hung set. =(

 

[The Faceless Master]

Damn Hung = Irony?

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Security for who?

Hollywood.

 

[Eiji]

Damn Hung = Irony?

They be talking about Sam Lung.