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[explodet]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050309.w2budg03091/BNStory/National/

When the call for opposition to the budget went out in the House of Commons, Conservative Leader Stephen Harper rocked in his seat, but ultimately stayed put as did his colleagues. The final vote was 132 in favour and 73 against.

During Wednesday's session, Conservative MPs repeatedly criticized the Liberal plan as lacking in substance and failing to provide significant tax relief to most Canadians, but also rejected suggestions from other opposition parties that they vote down the plan. “I have every desire to see this government brought down and we'll make sure it is done so at the appropriate time,” Brian Pallister, a Conservative MP from Manitoba, said, arguing that Canadians aren't ready to return to the polls.

The Tories' abstention came a day after the defeat of a Conservative amendment, after the Bloc Québécois backed off at the last minute from a threat to bring down the government by supporting the modification. Conservative MPs then decided behind closed doors to withhold their votes in the final ballot.

“We have stated unequivocally that we don't support the Liberals' method of governing our nation,” Conservative House Leader Jay Hill said, speaking on CBC Newsworld earlier in the day. “But we also have stated that we believe that it's in the best interests of the country as a whole, and obviously in the best interest of our constituents, to ensure the survival of Parliament at this time.”

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=73d9e4d0-3a92-4e18-b13e-4a6759bd065d

Duceppe was unconvinced by the Conservative rationale for abstaining on the budget vote. "I just don't understand it,'' he said. "We're elected here to express ourselves. If they think it's a good strategy, maybe next campaign they should say: `Vote for us, we won't show up.' ''

Layton accused the Conservatives of wanting to have it both ways: "Why doesn't Mr. Harper have the courage to stand up and simply vote for the budget? Because that's what he's doing in effect.''

Peter MacKay, the deputy Conservative leader, insisted an abstention isn't the same as a vote in favour. "It's basically saying, `None of the above.' We don't like the choices, but we're not going to make this government fall.'' MacKay pictured his party as responding to a "higher calling'' by averting an election that wouldn't be in the national interest.

Others admitted, however, that partisan considerations were also at play. Opinion polls show the Conservatives languishing below 30 per cent. Nor has any other party dramatically improved its standing since last June's election. Even the first-place Liberals are barely flirting with 40 per cent, making their chances of forming a majority government problematic.

Thought this might be of interest to the Canucks here. Any thoughts?

 

[Che]

If Tories hate it so much, I can only assume it's a great budget. Congrats to the Liberals. And you don't want the tax cuts to help "the Canadian people" you fucking hypocrites. You need the tax cuts to help your rich friends and their greedy corporations.

 

[maharg]

When the hell is/was the vote on the gay marriage bill?

 

[BigJonsson]

Ralph Goodale totally owned the budget this year


And getting a budget through in a minority government is a challenge

I actually watched the vote today on TV lol

 

[Suranga3]

When the hell is/was the vote on the gay marriage bill?

The vote is sometime in June, from what I read it should pass by a fair number of votes. The majority of the liberals, bloc and NDP will support it.

 

[Jotaro]

Duceppe is becoming somewhat liked, incredible, maybe then the english canadian media will be less biased. And maybe I should get interested in my country's politics, yet again.

 

[maharg]

The vote is sometime in June, from what I read it should pass by a fair number of votes. The majority of the liberals, bloc and NDP will support it.

Yeah, but June is a long way off. The government could dissolve by then.

 

[Azih]

Duceppe is becoming somewhat liked, incredible, maybe then the english canadian media will be less biased. And maybe I should get interested in my country's politics, yet again.

How is the English canadian media biased? Duceppe isn't much interested in them and vice versa.

 

[Boogie]

How is the English canadian media biased? Duceppe isn't much interested in them and vice versa.

We don't respect teh separatism.

 

[Jotaro]

How is the English canadian media biased? Duceppe isn't much interested in them and vice versa.

The ball's in the medias camps. And french media, and media of Quebec, has become actually worse than english media I think, so everyone's frowned upon in the end.

During the referendum of 1995, there was 75% of coverage for the NO option accorded as for CBC, while Radio-Canada (french sister station of CBC) made a bow to keep the content equal, even if by their very own nature (being of federal juridiction) they have been biased over and over again, but CBC just went overboard. Someone at Radio-Canada complained, CBC said: well, these are our viewer's interest. The Radio-Canada technician replied: ok, we will do the same thing with our viewers.

The CBC guy was left speechless.

We don't respect teh separatism.

When I was six, asked my dad why men walked over the fleurdelisé in the mud, I became interested in protecting what remained of french, sovereignism seemed to be the way to go, but in the end, french in a distinct society has kept Quebec alive for nearly 250 years.

I know some people don't respect such toughts, but who has the biggest handle on the stick and uses it unfarily in the end? The english, over and over again. And I know people don't like such toughts, free will should be abolished, but when I saw the racist reform party ads in 1997 (about the french prime ministers track record, which were all french yesmen), and when Bouchard, the Bloc's first leader, got his leg amputated, and newspapers started making drawings with the meanest jokes possible, because he had the challk-eating bacteria and was at the helm of a party tagged separatist, I was disgusted like I never was in my life.

For a while yeah, I tought all english people of Canada were evil, wanted to make a white nigger out of me all over again, and enforce peasoup into my mouth. But then I heard some Bloc deputys saying these things, and realised it was not real. I also realized the unfair advantage and role the media takes in such things.

So I still did not lost faith for everyone in that land north of the USA to get along together well.

 

[Azih]

A few things.

First off everybody in Canada thinks the Reform and Canadian Alliance are total dicks. It's only Alberta and a few bits of B.C and a few parts the praires that gave Reform the time of day. Hell Stockwell Day and Manning couldn't even win seats in rural Ontario. By all accounts even Harper is having problems breaking out of the West.

Secondly I've always been slightly confused at being labelled English Canadian. I'm freaking brown.

Thirdly, dude, every politician gets raked over the coals vicously in editorial cartoons. While the Brouchard bits were among the worst, Cretien got mauled just as bad.

Reform style hick hate aside the only time Quebec really crosses the minds of Ontarians anyway is occasional irritation at 'why do they get all the damn breaks' well that and 'dammit the game is dealyed for a week because of the French manuals? SHIT.' :lol

Things obviously change whenever a referendum gets near. And really is that not understandable?

 

[DonasaurusRex]

They gotta free up cash for all that free heroine they are gonna start supplying.

 

[FightyF]

MacKay pictured his party as responding to a "higher calling'' by averting an election that wouldn't be in the national interest.

What they really mean is their own interest...which is in some ways all fine and dandy...but if they really didn't like it they can't complain, and neither can those who are part of the CPC and are against the plan.

I thought they should have voted against it...but to refrain from doing so just because you think you'll have a better chance at getting a majority government later on...that's...well, I guess that's politics.

 

[Jotaro]

A few things.

First off everybody in Canada thinks the Reform and Canadian Alliance are total dicks. It's only Alberta and a few bits of B.C and a few parts the praires that gave Reform the time of day. Hell Stockwell Day and Manning couldn't even win seats in rural Ontario. By all accounts even Harper is having problems breaking out of the West.

This I always noticed. And he thinks he will ever form a majority. With his positions, without a single seat in Quebec, how can that ever be possible? As much as I hate Chrétien, he was right when he said that. :lol

Secondly I've always been slightly confused at being labelled English Canadian. I'm freaking brown.

I meant your language nothing else, sorry for that dude. I just meant that as a generalization. I think however in some cases it can be right to call french harrassment "racism" because english culture, some people and some ancestors, as opposed to french culture, some people and some ancestors, are from different roots. Latinos? Spanish is only one of the few languages that strikingly ressemble latin. This is truly all I meant. And many of us canadians have a whole lot of common ancesters in our respective gene pools.

Thirdly, dude, every politician gets raked over the coals vicously in editorial cartoons. While the Brouchard bits were among the worst, Chretien got mauled just as bad.

Well I did not saw all that happened to Chrétien (I'd like to tough, it would interest me), but I saw a whole lot (on a lot of englsh newspapers also), and I can definitively tell you it is miles below what people like Bouchard, Duceppe or Pazieau had to cope with. Political people in Quebec, whenever they'd dare walk out on a limb to state their opinion they deemed fair (like I just do somehow), they'd sign a death wish. It amazes me how people easily unite to serve chaos. Of course, everyone thinks of Parizeau's statement after the YES camp lost in 1995. He was blunt, sure, but he was right. And do not even get me started on the whole "we love Quebec" hypocritical and done in a hurry, against the laws, in unfair ways. That mistake haunted his life forever.

While that is viewed as frowned upon (in right ways), Bouchard did some mistakes like that, but he assumed them, same for Duceppe. Duceppe is more prudent on these things tough, I think he always was the voice of reason in his party, thus why he ultimately succeeded as leaded the Bloc Québécois after Leblanc was unable to make himself known, after Bouchard left to head up the Parti Québécois (after Parizeau had to leave after the refenrendal defeat speech fiasco.).

French politicians generally (and not totally at all) the way I've always seen it, with the way our political system is set up, they assume more their mistakes. French yesmen torries or liberals have a federal governements, and other assets (financial), as well as support of majoritary english provinces to back them up. Chrétien never excused himself! Do you know how many horrendous blunders he made, much worse than all other candian politicians combined? It was so ridiculous there were three humoristical mini booklets made about his "great quotes!" He always participated in everything in english canadian television (I especially mean humoristical skits), but refused to have anything to do with the french media.

While making fun of someone's illness is never fun (and I found it many times disgusting with Chrétien), well the way he made a fool of himself and acted as an asshole for more than forty years, he somehow got back the results of what he seeded himself.

Reform style hick hate aside the only time Quebec really crosses the minds of Ontarians anyway is occasional irritation at 'why do they get all the damn breaks' well that and 'dammit the game is dealyed for a week because of the French manuals? SHIT.'

Well, Trudeau made bilingualism enforced beyond belief in all Canada, this is why the back of your cereal boxes have french on them. This is why french teaching is mandatory until the end of high school too. He made a lot of these union-laws, so while we may not agree all the time, I'm sure we have some friendly hatred toward that dick in common :lol

French manuals it's funny. Why do you think Radio-Canada was born? Why do you think there was a provincial channel (Radio-Québec, then later Télé-Québec) that was also born? Because there was just CBC at the beginning, and even if ther french broadcasts were few and far between, because these people who did not knew a single word of french heard them like it was enforced into their hears, they felt nearly raped. Did it justify bullying the french, literally, and in the media, calling french quebecians peasousps like they did? Well, they did it anyway.


Of course, they do not care about them, french is out of their lives, why would they? I understand them, I'd probably act the same if I was born there. But thing is, english minorities in Quebec are treated miles beyond higher french minorities in other provinces, even in a bilingual province like New-Brunswick.

If someone was to make a morbid gag like the ones done to Bouchard, but a french guy, in a french newspaper, towards an english politician, he would be a DEAD man. Pricks like Mordecai Richler and Robert Libman make me friggin' sick. Do you know of the cartoonist named Serge Chapleau? He's most probably Canada's best caricaturist, and one of the world's best. You should really see his art style, you'd like it for sure, he's amazing. He is doing this fore more than thirty years. I remember seeing interviews with him on how the media worked, with facts... it's un-fucking-credible on how the english media will do horrendous things just because of the balance of power, they can. Newspapers like The Gazette, what they bluntly stated about the french, when I read it, and their track record... my god, these guys' newspaper should be dismantled. Anyone who'd do that in french today would be going to jail without passing go and gettin 200 dollars man.

Things obviously change whenever a referendum gets near. And really is that not understandable?

That is understandable. However, how is calling 50% plus one vote anti-democratic understandable, did Newfoundland needed anything more than that when they entered Canada in 1949? Nay.

This "referendal clarty", along with the ministry of patrimony scams, sponsorship scams, political corruptions with big corporations (who always happen to be english), there are just people using an unfair advtantage to put stick into others' wheels, over and over again. Do they want a fair debate on this? Do they want any at all? Of course they don't. They do not agree with our opinion, where is our right to express it? Certainly not anywhere else than inside french medias controlled by french interests.

People do this, and it is understsandable because it's human nature, but it's still frowned upon, it's still unfair! French people never had such means. Not that I'd want anyone to use these. How about the constitution debable of 1982? Meech Lake? Heck, Charlottetown' "referendum"? All the pathetic attempts of establishing a masquarade to "calm down" the french and their distinct society collapsed into pieces. And then they block out democratic process? Something is not right here, and it's certainly not entirely the fault of the french and/or Quebec.


It may sound like I just loathe the english, I do not, I just loathe everything that is unfair. And there is a crapload of unfairness going in Quebec right now, with the government and prime minister we have for La Belle Province. :lol

 

[Jotaro]

What they really mean is their own interest...which is in some ways all fine and dandy...but if they really didn't like it they can't complain, and neither can those who are part of the CPC and are against the plan.

I thought they should have voted against it...but to refrain from doing so just because you think you'll have a better chance at getting a majority government later on...that's...well, I guess that's politics.

Well, this is going to keep rather stale IMHO. This is a balance of power that was never seen before (a Torries' party representing the west, a pro-independentist party representing Quebec, NPD, and the Liberals who get seats here and there, tough mainly in Ontario, and in a lesser way in Quebec). I think it's going to stay like this for long, never underestimate the power of human lazyness. It might seem weird, but something stable like this might be better. The liberals were the sole option for ten years because the opposition was divided this way. Now this is different, and I don't see it changing any day soon.

And I find it frowned people who think Duceppe is just a nationalist zealot, it's not true. He's a really wise, really intelligent guy, who happens to also care for the other provinces and a fair canadian political system. Affirming the truth blindly would be lying; I went to some of his speeches, he's an amazing man that I truly admire. I do not know as much about Jack Layton for sure, but I'd like to do the same I did before, that must be great, and he's sure a great entertainer.


Damn, I'm getting interested in canadian politics, again, I sweared never to do so!

 

[Azih]

Political people in Quebec, whenever they'd dare walk out on a limb to state their opinion they deemed fair (like I just do somehow), they'd sign a death wish.

Hunh, it's not so much Quebec politicans as Bloc or Parti politicians. And hell the same thing happened to Reform/Canadian Alliance politicians when they spoke *their* minds. They got slammed.

That's the thing you have to understand about regional based protest parties. Nobody outside of the regions have much sympathy for them for the obvious reasons. The reaction to Perizeau blaming the 'money and ethnic vote' and old Reform MPs going on tirades against Quebec language laws is *THE SAME*. Which is 'what the hell are those people over there moaning about now?' The only difference is that in the Quebec case the stakes are much much higher what with the whole endgame being Breaking up the Country and so the reaction is stronger. Plus for me personally I bristle at Perizeau's remarks much more what with me being 'ethnic' and all.

And many of us canadians have a whole lot of common ancesters in our respective gene pools.

Not me. Plus really I gotta note that it's only Quebec where common ancestry and gene pools is any sort of a significant factor when it comes to politics.

French manuals it's funny. Why do you think ....

Eh. You don't need to go into a justification for french manuals and the like. I'm just trying to get across to you how rarely Quebec crosses the mind of anybody who's not in Quebec.

 

[6.8]

I'm a french canadian that has lived half of my life in Quebec and half of my life in Ontario. From what I have observed, about half of the people I've encountered shallow, generalizers about the *other* ethnic groups. They're idiots, and I tend to ignore their statements, because they are so fucking deep in misconceptions and irrational pride, and thus attempt to shove their stupid point of view down the throat of everyone else - irritating everybody.

Thankfully, the other half of the population isn't so shallow and stupid. That being said, I agree with Azih.

 

[Malakhov]

I was a big no seperation guy in the past but now I think it changed. Not because I hate the "english" canadians or western canada, quite the contrary but just because I am sick of Ottawa telling us what we can do, how to do it and shoving us down all the time and then turning around and spending millions in buying Canadian Flags to try to brainwash us.

If we separate we still can be friends:

 

[6.8]

I don't think separation is the best solution for the problem that Ottawa being a bit too cocky and powerful, as it's a problem that concerns all canadians. Most canadians are also sick and tired of it.

And I don't see what's wrong at giving Canadian flags to people. What's wrong with patriotism? You only see it as brainwashing because you don't identify with your country, not because it actually is brainwashing. Do you know anyone who has been "brainwashed" into federalism by mere flags? Please.

Now I don't disagree that the flags are a bit of a waste of money, but those conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

Edit: Is it me or is gaf ridiculously slow???

 

[Jotaro]

And I don't see what's wrong at giving Canadian flags to people. What's wrong with patriotism? You only see it as brainwashing because you don't identify with your country, not because it actually is brainwashing. Do you know anyone who has been "brainwashed" into federalism by mere flags? Please.

Well, wrongfully using our taxes' money to print milions of them, distribute about 80% of them in Quebec, is something that might be wrong with it.


(and 6.8, I miss your Bonhomme avatar. did you remove it because of his constant "T-Fal lynchage" by the Bleu Poudre? :lol)

I was a big no seperation guy in the past but now I think it changed. Not because I hate the "english" canadians or western canada, quite the contrary but just because I am sick of Ottawa telling us what we can do, how to do it and shoving us down all the time and then turning around and spending millions in buying Canadian Flags to try to brainwash us.

In that somewhat utopian possibility that french will become a distinct country instead of a nation or a distinct society, I guess it would be quite an enjoyment to harass people of Ottawa using Gatineau/Hull to get into or bars, or virtually everyone who crosses the borders. Taxes, refusals to speak english, running gags, think of the endless funny possibilities. :lol

 

[Jotaro]

Plus for me personally I bristle at Parizeau's remarks much more what with me being 'ethnic' and all.

I totally understand, I have many friends who were ethnic and were shocked initially, many immigrants who had voted YES were shocked too. But thing is, he never had the chance to excuse, justify himself, every visible minority would lynch him at every opportunity. Unlike many english leaders and french yesmen (and french politicians), that saying market him with a red iron and killed his life. People are still putting that running gag WAY too far. Some people seem to think to be part of a visible minority gives them the right to be assholes (not you or anyone in particular). Some of them, even french ones, abuse it way too far don't you think? Whether you're gay, french, white, asian, indian, black, jewish, being an asshole is frowned upon.

Now take many of the incredibly arrogant and mean things Trudeau has said. He got away with everything! He was the most incredibly assholish individual to ever grace canadian politics! Do you remember, or have you heard of his hypocritical statement he'd done before the referendum?

"We promit there WILL be changes, and we put our seats on GAMBLE that there WILL be CHANGES!" (in french to the people of Quebec, with the crowd cheering up)

The fucktard just lied! If any french politician would make the same thing, he could never get away with it. René Lévesque's statement after the 1980 loss of the referendum however, was classic. I will always miss him, most potiliticians do not have any class, any valors, morals anymore.

And the Mirable fiasco Trudeau did? And the ridiculous marshall law during the october crisis of 1970? And the constitution rapatriment of 1982? How about the ridiculously hypocritical statement during the Trudeaumania about legalization, tolerance of same-sex activities? He was a DICK. He did it just because England had approved of this, and he got all the sympathy capital. And people somehow worship him for that!

Trudeau ruined our public finances, when I heard of the name change of Dorval, I almost chocked. How many billions did this fucktard waste with Mirabel? However, Trudeau stuck up bilingualism up Canada's ass forever. So while I was perfectly aware (and I think I obviously stated so) that french never comes to mind of the english most of the time, just like in the first CBC broadcasts of the thirties, people saw out of the blue a language they would sometimes not even know about on the back of their cereal boxes, or on the packaging of products they bought.

So you can always blame everything on Trudeau, no matter if you are english or if you are french, or are part of a visible minority. :lol

 

[Azih]

But thing is, he never had the chance to excuse, justify himself, every visible minority would lynch him at every opportunity.

No real excuse or justification possible :shrug: he was frustrated and his real emotions and thoughts shone through.

It's kinda odd that you turn everything into a bash on Trudeau. It's just an observation, as I have no opinion on the dude one way or the other then I don't mind billingualism.

 

[Crandle]

The Liberals' ability to piss away money never fails to amaze me.

You'd think that government spending almost DOUBLING in a decade would be a sign of overtaxation, or something.

 

[6.8]

He did it just because England had approved of this...

I would like you to prove this statement.

 

[Azih]

Actually my view on Trudeau isn't all that neutral.

When I compare Trudeau to the other leaders of his time. Man it's no comparision. In Trudeau Vs Regan and Thatcher, Trudeau stomps all over them and does a fancy little twirl on their heads

 

[maharg]

I *really* don't understand Quebec's objections to the constitution, and nothing I have ever read explains it in a way that justifies the hate to me. Meech Lake and Charlottown seemed more about granting various rights to provinces that have absolutely nothing to do with 'distinct cultures,' so they don't really explain it to me either.

What is so hateful about the current constitution, from the Quebecer perspective? Frankly, I think you're lucky it has the Notwithstanding Clause that lets you force signs to have french bigger than english on them, among other things. And I don't see how you can pass that fun little Act and then bitch when the federal government uses the same right to enact the War Measures Act.

I, in Alberta, however, am not so lucky it has the Notwithstanding Clause. My backwards little government threatens to use it like clockwork to violate rights and screw around with the medicare system. I'd rather it wasn't there.

 

[Jotaro]

I *really* don't understand Quebec's objections to the constitution, and nothing I have ever read explains it in a way that justifies the hate to me. Meech Lake and Charlottown seemed more about granting various rights to provinces that have absolutely nothing to do with 'distinct cultures,' so they don't really explain it to me either.

What is so hateful about the current constitution, from the Quebecer perspective? Frankly, I think you're lucky it has the Notwithstanding Clause that lets you force signs to have french bigger than english on them, among other things. And I don't see how you can pass that fun little Act and then bitch when the federal government uses the same right to enact the War Measures Act.

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/AS...77178/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_0_3/702-2643546-3044036

It is out of print on Amazon.ca, I guess there are still copies here and there. I think no one can read this and still think that the french are whiners fucktards.

Of course, if you want to see an humoristic and factual short on the subject (french only unfortunately, but the pictures speak for themselves), by controversial french director Pierre Falardeau, there is a way:

http://trakenrad.ctech.ca/


And the Office de la langue française with their bilinguistical zealotism really piss me off. It's one thing to want to preserve french in a distinct society (which is right); it's a whole other thing to go overboard and make media stunts with it. These are fucking communist power-happy officers man! I for one think the 101 law should be amended so it would serve it's clear purpose. I'm sorry, the Office do not represent everyone's mentality in Quebec.

I, in Alberta, however, am not so lucky it has the Notwithstanding Clause. My backwards little government threatens to use it like clockwork to violate rights and screw around with the medicare system. I'd rather it wasn't there.

Well, are you living in the right place to understand the french's issues? I'm sorry for what's happening, it's human nature of always taking profit of unfair advantages. But I see you seem to like the NFB, that we will always have in common, NFB fucking rocks.

 

[Jotaro]

No real excuse or justification possible :shrug: he was frustrated and his real emotions and thoughts shone through.

It's kinda odd that you turn everything into a bash on Trudeau. It's just an observation, as I have no opinion on the dude one way or the other then I don't mind billingualism.

I know, because he genuienely tought he was right (and who knows, that might be a possibility?), and I did not meant as much justification as much as explaning his idea. He never got the chance, he was fed up and retreated.

Well, Trudeau is the genesis of many of the staples of today's Canada. Chrétien was his disciple. And so on and on. He established the Canada we have today, however the way he did it was pretty rude. Still I will not criticize the man for not being stupid, he's fucking brilliant, but I hate him. Have you seen the biographical mini-series that portrayed the man in person? My God, what a fucking arrogant self-masturbating snob asshole, and that is barely scratching the surface. A fucking genius, but a fucking dick head at the same time, maybe like Kubrick.

It was fun, there was a mini-series done a couple of years ago about his life (that no one seemed to watch), and the guy who protrayed Chrétien, here in Quebec he is a well known humorist and he did spoofs of him all the time. It was weird to see this humorist acting all serious. Think what you want of that.

 

[Jotaro]

I would like you to prove this statement.

Sorry I wish I had the actuals quotes but I do not (it's buried into some issue of L'Action Nationale, and I don't feel like scouring through those bricks once again). Basically, mother england banned homosexuality, and Trudeau, when the english were like ok with it, only then he put it that way. Remember on how Trudeau was always on with the Queen, more english than Elizabeth 2 herself. But all in all, you've got to admit a man that has courage to stand his convictions. Falardeau however does not benetifs from the same vein of chance.

 

[maharg]

That book appears to be about media issues. I asked a pretty specific question about a pretty specific issue (that is, Quebec not signing the Constitution, and later failed amendment attempts triggering further talks of leaving confederation).

Just explain why the constitution is such a huge sticking point. I don't think Quebecers are particularily whiny fucktards, but I do think Albertans are. Are you in a position to understand Alberta's issues? You make a lot of comparisons to what Quebec politians put up with to what Anglo politicians put up with, but I don't think you're really as aware of the situation outside Quebec as you like to think.

My province's premiere is a wifebeating high school drop out drunkard. Sure, he doesn't resign because of it like Parizeau did for his statement (and imo, it was the right thing to do. What he said was absolutely unacceptable. As Premiere, he was representative to ALL Quebecers, including ethnics and anglos, not just the ones he liked), but that's because he's a member of a dynasty. Would that he would have the balls to resign after saying everyone on AISH was a liar and a cheat.

We all have our problems with our government, both provincial and federal, but if you want any sympathy you're going to have to explain things a bit better. Your big complaint seems to be unfair media. So what should they do to fix it?

 

[Jotaro]

Well, a LOT of our ignorance has to do with the media. I do not know who's PM is of every province, I find it unfair. I'm pretty sure no one will cover Quebec accurately, and I am about as sure no one will do the reverse. But who would be impartial in that case? There is no one, because no one really cares for Canada on the worldwide scale. I would like to know english Canada better but I lack information. I think however it is much worse on the french side, that is, because all you get are horror stories. It always amazed me on how every news broadcast of the english Quebec community portrayed some english average Joe as a victim of french, it's beyond belief.

Well as for the constitution, my memory does not serves me well, I lack of english expletives (sorry), and my eyes are getting more and more sored because of my disease, I am fucking tired. But it's a subject I always enjoyed discussing if I found a fair audience, which I think you might very well be.

Well basically the way Trudeau took the constitution was without Quebec's consentment, and unilateraly at that, without even Lévesque's knowledge. So that pissed us off. And on and on the endless constitutional tennis game continued. But it's not about the constitution, it's about getting fair treatments, constitution is more like something that we have to deal with, are always associated with, when dealing with such things.


In the book it's intricately detrailed with tons of news articles, quotes and all, among with many others neglected corners of english's Canada history. There was a 3K-like organization biased towards the french in Alberta at some point, there were some incredibly racist and blasphematory comments made by many english newspapers, especially during the conscription in World war 2, etc etc... it's a very interesting reading. I for one, when I read the books (there are three in french, in english it's a condensé, the book of course never found an audience, it was more symbolic), I often was so much disgusted I wanted to throw the book away on the floor. And it's all facts! EVERYTHING Lester says is backed up by newspapers and statements. If you think the medias are fair, think again, they plant seeds into our minds we all (even I) will never be able to depart ourselves from.


But don't go thinking I despise english culture, in fact I like it (even if there is not much available because of the US predominance), my favorite humoristical troupe is actually Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie, I always liked watching this hour has 22 minutes.

 

[Azih]

You say 'fair treatments' what's that mean?

Plus it seems like you focus a lot on history when it comes to greivances with English Canada. Like maybe too much.

 

[Shinobi]

All I know is that this budget gives Ontario another crowbar up the ass. This province is paying out $23 billion more in taxes then it's taking in, while hospitals and city infrastructures are going to hell in a handbasket. And the recent budget did nothing to address that. So fuck the budget, and fuck the Liberal government too.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I think quebec has a really good chance at separatism in the next election, the "new" generation who were raised in families that didnt care about politics and didnt brainwash their children to vote for X or Y party that the parents think is best for them, are the best chance quebec has. The young generation, and even the older ones, are fed up with the way Ottawa are handling our money, we're the biggest tax payers in the world, we're pretty much driving the economy of the west with the ports in montreal that handle pretty much the majority of ship cargo coming in canada, yet we receive the least, our hospitals are heading down the shitter, the sponsorship scandal, the gomery commission which is 60M $ thrown out of our pockets to tell us that yes we were fucked in the ass and that you cant do anything against it. Jean Charest wanting to build the suroi thermal center and then backing off, then funding 100% private jew schools when our public schools are already in need of cash, then backing off. Now its the 103 million off the student financing for the universities, and he will probably back off aswell, but will put the 103M back by raising taxes or something along the line, so the students will pay more either way.

I think that in general, quebec is fed up with the liberals, and the federal government in general, in the next elections, Charest has no chance to win, the PQ will likely enter due to the sudden rise of separatism movement in quebec, mainly caused by Duceppe, and if the enter, i think the yes would pass if they ever made a vote on it.

I hope at least