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[Syriel]

You think weird shit happens in the tech media?

Fast Company ran a piece about a handful of mattress reviewing sites.

When a popular brand (Casper) fell out of favor to some competitors (who ranked better), Casper sued multiple sites over it. As part of one settlement, it then funded the purchase of one of those review sites (via an extremely generous "loan" to a shell company), and it magically started getting positive reviews again.

Full read is well worth it.

A few weeks later, in September of 2014, Derek spotted an opportunity. He registered the domain Sleepopolis-Mattress-Reviews.com and threw together a quick website comparing his experiences with Tuft & Needle and Casper (he eventually migrated his content to Sleepopolis.com, which he had also registered). A week later, Derek and Samantha posted a positive video review of their Casper on YouTube.

“Pretty quickly, it seemed I had struck a chord with a lot of people,” Derek recalled. The Casper video eventually racked up 25,000 views.

From the beginning, Derek monetized his site and YouTube channel using what are called “referral links,” or “affiliate links.” These special links were embedded with a tracking code. If a consumer clicked from Derek’s site through to a mattress company’s website (like Casper.com) and made a purchase within 30 days or so, then that company would pay Derek a reward.

Indeed, one would never have predicted looming lawsuits from a friendly 2015 email exchange, in which Casper CEO Philip Krim attempted to court an affiliate marketer named Jack Mitcham, who ran a Sleepopolis-like site called Mattress Nerd.

In January 2015, Krim wrote Mitcham that while he supported objective reviews, “it pains us to see you (or anyone) recommend a competitor over us.”

Krim went on: “As you know, we are much bigger than our newly formed competitors. I am confident we can offer you a much bigger commercial relationship because of that. How would you ideally want to structure the affiliate relationship? And also, what can we do to help to grow your business?”

When Mitcham responded to say that he and his wife found the Casper mattress uncomfortable, Krim persisted:

“Is there any way I could get you to spend more time on the Casper?…We would even be happy to fly you out to NYC to tell you more about the product or have you spend a long weekend on one. I’d also love to find ways to work more closely. We would love to become your biggest referral check.”

In July 2015–a month after the $55 million investment–Krim revived his email chain with Mattress Nerd’s Mitcham, informing him that while Casper had “decided to sunset” its affiliate relationships, it nevertheless would be interested in exploring “economic relationships beyond the affiliate program structure.”

“Nothing would make us happier than to pay you a ton of money,” Krim elaborated in his next email, “but we need to do it in a context of being accretive to Casper. Currently you actively endorse a competing product on our review page. What can we do not to have you endorse another product as superior to ours? I am certain we can be a better partner to you than Leesa.”

It appears that Krim’s dialogue with Mattress Nerd did not end in a comfortable place. Likewise for negotiations Krim may have been having with Sleepopolis or Sleep Sherpa. That summer, Casper declined to renew affiliate relationships with all mattress bloggers. (It eventually reinstated some.)

But then, in the last days of April, Derek’s lawyer submitted a surprising counterclaim against the mattress giant.

The claim added a dramatic early chapter to the story of Sleepopolis and Casper–right after Casper announced it would not be renewing its affiliate marketing contracts back in the summer of 2015.

“Immediately after Casper announced this termination,” the claim alleged, “Casper approached Hales and offered to resume the relationship, on terms considerably more favorable to Hales, if Hales would agree to state a more positive opinion of Casper’s mattress on Sleepopolis. Hales refused.”

Shortly after this refusal, alleged Derek’s lawyer, “Sleepopolis came under a massive negative SEO attack.” Tens of thousands of links to Sleepopolis began mysteriously cropping up on sites that Google’s algorithms deemed low-quality, he wrote. Since Google demotes websites that are linked to by low-quality sites, Sleepopolis’s esteem was hurt by association, and Google began demoting Sleepopolis in searches.

Suspiciously, a large proportion of the toxic links pointed to Derek’s Casper content, particularly hurting him in Casper-related searches. (Derek eventually resolved his problem by hunting down the bad links and creating a “disavow” list for Google.)

Derek’s lawyer, having learned that Casper contracted with a “reputation management firm” at just this time, alleged that Casper was behind the SEO attack on Sleepopolis. His lawyer was now insisting that Derek was the wronged party in the suit, not Casper, and demanded that Derek be awarded damages instead.

“It’s kind of a mystery, what happened,” he said, keeping mum about details. “The website came up for sale, and I acquired it.” Kenny said he hoped to repay Casper soon and be able to remove the disclaimer, but for the time being he wanted to err on the side of transparency.

Kenny Kline and Dan Scalco swore that Casper wouldn’t touch the site. Casper’s Philip Krim told me the same: “We exert no influence and have no influence over the site, other than that we lent them money.” A Casper spokesperson added that the company currently has no access to Sleepopolis’s data.

The new owners of Sleepopolis did disclose on the site: “Until the loan is satisfied, Casper has the contractual right to repossess the assets and forgive the remaining value of the loan…yes, that was written by our lawyers .” Repossess the assets: in other words, take over Sleepopolis, if it came to that. But Krim said this was just “lawyer language protecting our loan, so we get paid back.”

But the most significant change to Sleepopolis came right away. From the first days of the site’s new management, that thorn in Casper’s side–Derek’s damning yellow box, pointing prospective buyers to competitors–disappeared from Sleepopolis’s Casper review. In its place there appeared a green box, with a coupon linking straight to Casper.com:

By early September, the updated Casper review amounted to an endorsement. “Overall my experience with Casper was very positive,” the new review concluded.

Source:
https://www.fastcompany.com/3065928...ggers-lawsuits-underside-of-the-mattress-wars

 

[Flux]

Their mattresses are absolute trash for anyone wondering.

 

[Slayven]

Why not make a good mattress?

That is why I never trust 5 out of 5 or 1 out of 1 reviews. Truth is always in the middle

 

[Neece]

One of my favorite podcast was promoting them a year or so ago.

 

[DaytimeWhiskey]

Why not make a good mattress?

That is why I never trust 5 out of 5 or 1 out of 1 reviews. Truth is always in the middle

5/5 post

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Their mattresses are absolute trash for anyone wondering.

Someone's trying to get some money out of Casper.

 

[Slayven]

One of my favorite podcast was promoting them a year or so ago.

Mattress money is too good to sleep on

5/5 post

Now if only I can find someone to pay me for it

 

[El Topo]

One of my favorite podcast was promoting them a year or so ago.

They've paid for ads on a ton of podcasts. Same with e.g. Blue Apron or Squarespace.

Mattress money is too good to sleep on

Nice.

 

[NealMcCauley]

That's not a friendly mattress company.

 

[Lavalamp1138]

Their mattresses are absolute trash for anyone wondering.

Are they? I’ve been interested in getting a memory foam mattress and I could have sworn Casper was one of the more highly regarded brands in another GAF thread.

 

[Father_Brain]

but those cartoon ads I keep seeing all over the NYC subway sure are cute

 

[buttery fistful]

And sure enough, there's the Casper ad at the bottom of the thread

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

Their mattresses are absolute trash for anyone wondering.

I've had fairly good experience with mine, but this behavior? That's absolute trash. Certainly won't be recommending them to anyone again.

 

[Syriel]

And sure enough, there's the Casper ad at the bottom of the thread

EviLore getting some of that sweet mattress money.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Those rolled/boxed foam mattresses from Casper, Purple, GhostBed, Nature's Sleep, etc... are all garbage.

Are they? I've been interested in getting a memory foam mattress and I could have sworn Casper was one of the more highly regarded brands in another GAF thread.

Just buy a Tempurpedic.

 

[slit]

Their mattresses are absolute trash for anyone wondering.

You want them to sue GAF too?

 

[bachikarn]

Those rolled/boxed foam mattresses from Casper, Purple, GhostBed, Nature's Sleep, etc... are all garbage.

Thought a lot of GAFers recommend them

 

[cDNA]

What is the cheapest alternative for a good mattress,for example full size.

 

[robochimp]

One of my favorite podcast was promoting them a year or so ago.

Yeah they're a regular advertiser on podcasts.

 

[Earthbound64]

Nothing would make us happier than to pay you a ton of money

lol

 

[jwk94]

I thought Casper was good?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Thought a lot of GAFers recommend them

A lot of Gaffers have never slept on a Tempurpedic. I have a Cloud Luxe in my master and a 10" Nature's Sleep in my guest and they don't compare.

Though, when you've slept on garbage your entire life, something marginally better probably feels awesome if you don't feel like spending 4 thousand dollars.

 

[taco543]

They know we're talking about them...

 

[JCHandsom]

SBFCast been shamelessly sleeping on mattress money.

Turns out Inhumans wasn't the first thing they sold out on.

 

[Syriel]

I thought Casper was good?

If it was, would it have doled out money to purchase a review site that it was suing?

Funny how it magically became the most recommended product on Sleepopolis after that.

Would be like Sony "loaning" a bunch of $$$ to two guys to "buy" Gamespot, and suddenly having Gamespot be very positive on PS4 stuff, but being negative on Xbox stuff.

 

[GK86]

Damn, I was saving up money to buy one of their mattress too. I also thought they were good. Smh.

 

[Vuci]

I thought Casper was good?

It's great! But maybe other companies are better? No idea. I love my Casper.

 

[LumpOfCole]

You think weird shit happens in the tech media?

I would really enjoy reading some mattress-enthusiast forums and listening to mattress-enthusiast podcasts treating this story the way GAF or other gaming forums react to lootbox controversies.

 

[kmfdmpig]

This line makes me wonder if this type of BS is common with these direct to user mattress companies:
”Nothing would make us happier than to pay you a ton of money," Krim elaborated in his next email, ”but we need to do it in a context of being accretive to Casper. Currently you actively endorse a competing product on our review page. What can we do not to have you endorse another product as superior to ours? I am certain we can be a better partner to you than Leesa."

At the least it makes it seem like Casper's boss believes that to be the case. Personally, I have a T+N which I mostly like, but my wife and I live close to their office so I was able to try it in person before buying.

I would really enjoy reading some mattress-enthusiast forums and listening to mattress-enthusiast podcasts treating this story the way GAF or other gaming forums react to lootbox controversies.

Here you go, I think someone is trying to kick that discussion off right now:

https://www.themattressunderground....rt-millennial-mattresses.html?start=120#74337

 

[Robot Pants]

I thought Casper was good?

They are.
This behavior aint great, but hey I already have my mattress and I love it

 

[Nipo]

I thought Casper was good?

Casper is good. Leesa is better. That is the conclusion i came away with reading reviews and this article.

 

[hurricanes]

If anyone is hunting for a mattress, I recommend the gel form mattresses from Costco. They are also cheaper than Casper.

I also got no referral fee[shrug]

Relevant Wirecutter article on foam mattresses looking for unbiased reviews.

Good info. I should also note that I do much prefer firm to very firm mattress even as a light person. So definitely YMMV.

 

[Bornstellar]

I've had fairly good experience with mine, but this behavior? That's absolute trash. Certainly won't be recommending them to anyone again.

.

 

[Joe]

Casper relies on affiliate marketing (which is perfect for podcast advertising because of "coupon codes") to sell their mattresses. This means they are essentially enlisting anyone with an email address to go online and persuade people to buy Casper mattresses and to use their specific coupon code in the process. Affiliate marketers make a percentage of the sale and will use articles, reviews, comparison sites, YouTube videos, etc. to make their pitches.

Online affiliate marketing is a weird and shady world with a lot of schemes and manipulators.

I purchased a Tuft & Needle mattress rather than Casper because T&N stopped offering "coupon codes" because they wanted to avoid this kind of mess entirely and make sure customers trusted the reviews.

 

[Ludovico]

Thought a lot of GAFers recommend them

Got one partly because of GAF.

If it ever comes up in the future, I'll advise against Casper thanks to the article.

Spoiler

no complaints on the actual mattress though, shrug

 

[Wallach]

Thought a lot of GAFers recommend them

My Purple is great. I've never tried one of the fully foam style mattresses like Casper, though.

 

[leroidys]

Was in the market for a mattress and wondered why Caspers were 2x what the other startups charge. Guess it's to find shady shit like this.

 

[Robdraggoo]

Matresses is a hard business, if you dont firm up, youll sink.

 

[sleepnaught]

Lol and here I was debating between a Leesa and Casper for my new mattress. Guess that makes my choice easier.

 

[Jeels]

Whelp. In the process of buying a new home and thus a new mattress. I'll have to skip out on Casper.

My current is a tuft and needle. Any good ones in that price range?

 

[Chanser]

Tested took some of that sweet comfy money.

 

[Fatalah]

Consumer Reports received Casper highly. Don't like the recent prime hike though. Tuft&Needle is the better buy.

 

[rmt92]

What is the cheapest alternative for a good mattress,for example full size.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TOUADO0/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I've had this on my amazon wish list for months in anticipation of moving, and I have a sneaking suspicion I'd like it as much as any of the rest of these "bed in a box" companies. It's a lot cheaper too.

 

[subrock]

Their mattresses are absolute trash for anyone wondering.

not surprised. I have a memory foam one from another company and its just about the worst thing to sleep on. I feel like a banana my back is so curved when I sleep.

 

[Instro]

GAF about to get some of that sweet sweet mattress money.

 

[sleepnaught]

Not to hijack, but does anyone have experience with 2 or more of these online mattresses? Curious how they compare. I tend to prefer something soft, but most of these tend to be on the firm side. My brother has a iComfort Blue 3000 Elite, which is the most comfortable mattress I've ever been on. It's also $2,500 so well out of my price range.

 

[Bornstellar]

not surprised. I have a memory foam one from another company and its just about the worst thing to sleep on. I feel like a banana my back is so curved when I sleep.

Caspers are very firm. I got mine specifically because of back issues.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

Why not make a good mattress?

That is why I never trust 5 out of 5 or 1 out of 1 reviews. Truth is always in the middle

This is a joke, right?

 

[Veon]

This isn't even Ramsey Bolton level scheming, it's more like Swipey the fox level.

 

[RageWaffles]

Not to hijack, but does anyone have experience with 2 or more of these online mattresses? Curious how they compare. I tend to prefer something soft, but most of these tend to be on the firm side. My brother has a iComfort Blue 3000 Elite, which is the most comfortable mattress I've ever been on. It's also $2,500 so well out of my price range.

I only have experience with one company, but Brooklyn Bedding makes soft, medium, and firm mattresses