CBO Doubles the Cost for Obamacare

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lol
 
shadowsdarknes said:
If the problem was as simple as you say it is, it would have been remedied a long time ago. Your just the typical GAFer, thinking the world is a simple place with simple solutions when in fact it's a very delicate system that can be offset if the right solution isn't set in place.

I don't think the U.S is in a position to provide universal healthcare to every citizen. Doesn't mean I'm against it.
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What?
 
Kosmo posts a misleading thread about an initiative passed by commie lieberals and then happens to be suspiciously absent when everyone starts calling him on it?

Colour me shocked!
 
Paradoxal_Utopia said:
This is a Kosmo thread, what the fuck did you expect? He's a well known right wing troll with absolutely no regard for the facts, so I'd be shocked if whatever he's linking to was a legitimate source.
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Just thought I'd quote myself, now that we have confirmation of complete bullshit. WIth posters like Kosmo, the absolute consistency of misinformation and fud is incredible. Also consistence is his cowardice, when he never acknowledges that he's been called out, and neve apologizes or admit when he's wrong. How he's avoided banning while not having a shred of truth in a single one of his posts is mind-blowing. Disgusting.
 
shadowsdarknes said:
If the problem was as simple as you say it is, it would have been remedied a long time ago. Your just the typical GAFer, thinking the world is a simple place with simple solutions when in fact it's a very delicate system that can be offset if the right solution isn't set in place.

I don't think the U.S is in a position to provide universal healthcare to every citizen. Doesn't mean I'm against it.
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This is not founded in logic. A bigger pool of taxpayers can provide a bigger source of funds to support the bigger pool of recipients. Even if this wasn't literally the richest country in the world.

We pay vastly more per capita than any western nation in our private health insurance system for no discernible reason.
 
Kinitari said:
Healthcare is already being provided to 300 million people (kind of) as it is. It's not that there isn't health care being provided, it's just an inefficient system with profiteering playing a big role as well.
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I don't think inefficiency is as big a problem as the money. Profiteering will not go away at all. I would be shocked if one healthcare company, hospital, or doctor loses a penny off of it.

Insurance companies themselves will never go away and never need to downscale.
Read the new information brah.
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I did. They are 2 different ranges and both are off from the original. The estimates will always be off anyway so it's pointless to look at as an indicator. Whether either one of them are right or wrong now doesn't change that they will be wrong next year too.

The budget for healthcare was never going to equate to the number to get it passed. The government handling money almost always sucks but if they are the best ones to handle the service, then that's what you gotta rely on.
 
Kosmo being the typical embarrassing republican as usual. We should be talking about the failure of education for people like Kosmo instead.
 
sangreal said:
Misleading thread title. CBO estimates are for 10 years. They never said it would be $940B for every 10 year window in the future. New 10 year window, new estimate.




It's not a budget, and the previous estimate was for the first 10 years. There is no point comparing it to this number for the next 10 years.
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they gamed it because it starts in 2014, so they knew what the costs where going to be when it was sold as only costing little less than a trillion dollars.

Now the true costs are coming into play and its looking worse.
 
shadowsdarknes said:
If the problem was as simple as you say it is, it would have been remedied a long time ago. Your just the typical GAFer, thinking the world is a simple place with simple solutions when in fact it's a very delicate system that can be offset if the right solution isn't set in place.
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Nobody's saying "the world is a simple place with simple solutions." If you recognize that there is a problem, though, it seems like a good first step would be to be realistic and rational about it, which is something that a good portion of America, like Kosmo here, continually refuse to do.
 
I'm shocked that Kosmo would post such bullshit. Shocked!

Good to see so many going straight to the CBO report. Their reports are readily available, and easy to read (particularly the blog posts summarizing their findings). There's no excuse for posting this kind of misreporting.
 
Ripclawe said:
they gamed it because it starts in 2014, so they knew what the costs where going to be when it was sold as only costing little less than a trillion dollars.

Now the true costs are coming into play and its looking worse.
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Did you read the thread at all?

Thread backfire, Kosmo. And just in case you were going to bring up the $111 billion increase in "refundable premium assistant tax credits":
After the Affordable Care Act became law, the administration became aware of glitch in the law: Some working- and middle-class people, making up to four times the poverty rate, could have qualified for Medicaid. That was never the law’s intent, because Medicaid is a program for low-income Americans. The glitch, if left in place, would have increased the law’s cost overall.

Congress responded by amending the law, to redefine who would be eligible for Medicaid. Republicans know all about this, since many of them voted for the fix. As a result, some people who would have gotten their insurance through Medicaid will now get their health insurance through the new exchanges. They will also be eligible for subsidies, depending on their incomes. That makes the overall cost of subsidies a lot higher. Throw in some changes in economic forecasting, and you get that extra $111 billion in subsidies.

But that’s only half the story! The cost of subsidies has gone up, because more people will be getting insurance through the exchanges. But the cost of Medicaid has gone down, because, among other things, fewer people will be getting coverage through that program. Overall, the administration now projects the ten-year Medicaid cost to decline by $272 billion.
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More here: http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-co...eficit-premium-subsidies-111-billion-medicaid
 
Isn't Kosmo's numbers from 2014, when the real thing actually kicks in, and the $50 Billion less number from 2012?
 
shadowsdarknes said:
If the problem was as simple as you say it is, it would have been remedied a long time ago. Your just the typical GAFer, thinking the world is a simple place with simple solutions when in fact it's a very delicate system that can be offset if the right solution isn't set in place.

I don't think the U.S is in a position to provide universal healthcare to every citizen. Doesn't mean I'm against it.
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I use to think it wasn't financially feasible to provide care for everybody in the US because of how unhealthy people are generally but it's the most cost efficient way. You're already paying for the uninsured in hidden costs.

Lowering cost of healthcare by treating neediest patients
and

why healthcare can cost way more in certain areas than others:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande

Nobody's saying it easy but I recommend you inform yourself before spouting that it's impossible.
 
SoulPlaya said:
Isn't Kosmo's numbers from 2014, when the real thing actually kicks in, and the $50 Billion less number from 2012?
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Kosmo's numbers are the gross costs from 2012-2022--the net cost is currently estimated at $1.25 billion, and does not include budgetary effects estimates for 2022 that are expected to reduce the deficit further.
 
Lol at Kosmo once again. Dude just can't catch a break. First the thread about the schools forcing the little girl to not eat her home lunch and now this.
 
SoulPlaya said:
Isn't Kosmo's numbers from 2014, when the real thing actually kicks in, and the $50 Billion less number from 2012?
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Not exactly,

The hill article starts from 2012 ten year period

The Examiner did it from 2013 ten year periods
and the writer even did an updated post that acknowledges the Hill numbers being used here.

http://campaign2012.washingtonexami...s-its-obamacare-medicaid-cost-estimate/425966

Problem is a lot of people are not catching that point

Kosmo's numbers are the gross costs from 2012-2022--the net cost is currently estimated at $1.25 billion, and does not include budgetary effects estimates for 2022 that are expected to reduce the deficit further.
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Like Medicare cuts? A lot of those cuts will never happen because it will be too politically toxic.
 
That's what happens when wingnuts like Kosmo are desperate to find 'scandals' and 'outrages'. They're forced to make shit up and inclined to jump at the sound of a pin.
 
shadowsdarknes said:
Name another first world nation with a universal health care system with over 300 million people. How about even 100 million.
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Well more users means more people paying in. It's a question about how much our gdp per person is, not how many potential patients there are. Unless you're saying that our hospitals don't have the capacity to take on that many more patients?

Anyways, I believe that having a larger risk pool also decreases cost of providing the insurance.
 
Barkley's Justice said:
Americans are afraid to see a doctor because of how much it will cost. SHIT IS FUCKED UP.
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I had to have a tooth pulled recently, and I went in to get a quote on getting an implant. The total cost? $4500. How much will my insurance cover? $900. I drive a $1500 car, I really can't afford to spend over twice that on something that's ostensibly cosmetic. Still, it's really driving me crazy, and will continue to, because it's too much money.

I fully realize I'm in a better position than a lot of people, but it's pretty shitty that I have to make these kinds of decisions.
 
Ripclawe said:
they gamed it because it starts in 2014, so they knew what the costs where going to be when it was sold as only costing little less than a trillion dollars.

Now the true costs are coming into play and its looking worse.
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Bullshit. That's not what happened.
 
Rob_ said:
The pre-existing condition insurance plan is what the obama administration lied about. In 2011 they predicted it would cost $13,026 per enrollee, but it's actually going to cost $28,994.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...plan-doubles/2012/02/23/gIQAX3xVWR_story.html

http://www.cciio.cms.gov/resources/files/Files2/02242012/pcip-annual-report.pdf
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You mean the temporary plan that expires in 2014? I think we can manage.

Also, I think "lied" dosen't really apply.
 
Whoever disagrees with government run health care is an idiot. That is the only way we are going to solve are gigantically fucked up health care system
 
Something Wicked said:
Whoever believes that the CBO projections are likely to be met is also an idiot.
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Probably, buts that because Obamcare is basically a few bells and whistles on a pile of shit. You aint going to fix it until you sweep away your shit. (shit be health insurance companies and employer provided health care)
 
Lambtron said:
I had to have a tooth pulled recently, and I went in to get a quote on getting an implant. The total cost? $4500. How much will my insurance cover? $900. I drive a $1500 car, I really can't afford to spend over twice that on something that's ostensibly cosmetic. Still, it's really driving me crazy, and will continue to, because it's too much money.

I fully realize I'm in a better position than a lot of people, but it's pretty shitty that I have to make these kinds of decisions.
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Getting a tooth pulled is hardly cosmetic. Paid £15 for it here in the UK. Hadn't even made an appointment for that. I went in for a regular check up, and the dentist told me she had to pull a half cracked tooth out, which I hadn't noticed right in the back of my mouth. A few minutes later, and she pulled it out. Was a pretty smooth and painless experience.
 
ChanHuk said:
You try providing healthcare for 300 million people on the cheap.
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The government already covers something like 2/3rds of the healthcare costs in the country. It's just that those are concentrated in the sickest and costliest members of society (in terms of their health coverage), and the government forbids itself from using what leverage it DOES have to lower prices.

That, and ONLY the sick and elderly are in the government pool (it far outnumbers the people who get benefits through the military or otherwise), so it doesn't erally function as insurance, either.
 
All right, looks like the $1.76B number is high. And if I can be so inclined to move the goalposts slightly (LOL) - $45B in penalty payments by uninsured individuals? Let me take that with a huge grain of salt, LOL.

I fully admit I should have given the CBO report a little closer look FML haha.

The government already covers something like 2/3rds of the healthcare costs in the country. It's just that those are concentrated in the sickest and costliest members of society (in terms of their health coverage), and the government forbids itself from using what leverage it DOES have to lower prices.
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Not entirely true - Medicare and Medicaid rates are the lowest reimbursed to providers.

If you want a prime example of how they actually fuck things up, look up Acthar Gel - it's a prime example of how the government hurts our healthcare costs. This is a drug for infantile spasms that used to sell for about $1,000 a vial. The company was not making profits, so what they decided to do was jack the price to $23,000 a vial, but for Medicaid, it gives the government a 100% rebate. Consequently, the government looks the other way, since they don't pay for it, and everyone else is left holding the bag. Don't even get me started on the FDA approving allowing a company to get approval for colchicine, which sold for pennies a pill, and is now over $100 a month or a Makena - a drug that used to be compounded by pharmacies for $20 a shot to prevent premature labor that was given a patent and now is $1,500 a dose.
 
Maybe the moment has passed for single-payer in the US
Perhaps the pharmaceutical companies and healthcare legal aid is too powerful now

I think most European countries set up their healthcare systems in the 50s
 
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