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Charlottesville City Council Meeting Erupts Over White Nationalist Rally
- Thread starter Gordon Shumway
- Start date
PeakPointMatrix
Member
How tone deaf can they fucking be?
MrSaturn99
Member
how could you not mention the rally
why would you not mention the rally
jesus
why would you not mention the rally
jesus
The Greek Freak
Member
It's not that they granted a permit. It's that the city's police force is filled with racist cowards.
That permit include permission to beat on a black man near the police station?
Neo-nazis should be given permits to protest. The idea of protest permits being withheld by the government based on the politics of the protesters is wildly antithetical to the first amendment.
They made a lot of mistakes, but allowing people to protest isn't one of them.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Why precisely were the protestors arrested and removed? Because the way they expressed their political opinions was frightening and disruptive to others?
^ I imagine there is a level of decorum that is stipulated in these sessions. Standing on tables would be a surefire way to get yourself removed. Though, I really doubt that fact is even controversial.
Even racist cops that weren't incompetent would have at least known to keep antifa and nazis away from each other. That shit's pretty standard. At best they are incompetent, at worst they're also nazis.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
How is being a Nazi a political stance?
Royce McCutcheon
Junior Member
"Maybe if we ignore it, it'll go away"
You heard the President. Violence on both sides. Those crazed antifa members could have lit them all on fire!
I can imagine "disorderly conduct" being the main reason.
Stupid, stupid, stupid city council for thinking they could get away with not talking about this at their meeting.
They didn't have a permit. The Nazis went to court and won an injunction to hold the rally.
The real issue seems to be that the police department completely fucked up the situation starting with the torch rally on Friday night. They seem to have made little to no effort separating the groups and when the fights started it looked like they just stood back and watch them go at each other. They still haven't put out any arrest warrants for the nazis that ganged up on Deandre Harris btw.
Also wtf was the council thinking trying to sweep the rally under the rug? Absolutely ridiculous.
...what did you think Nazis were? Just the bad guys in Indiana Jones movies?
The National Socialist German Workers' Party was a political party. They had a 25-point plan to Make Germany Great Again. Modern day Nazis aren't as well organized, but their goal is still to affect policy to advance their agenda (generally stuff like "keep America white by halting immigration").
Their ideas are disgusting, but... how is it not a political stance?
Um, what?
Interestingly Germany allow Neo Nazi's to protest, as long as they don't display swastikas, do the salute etc.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Might be beneficial for you to learn what restrictions are actually in place.
http://abcnews.go.com/International...-nazi-march-counter-protests-planned-49293152
Contrary to what Ri'Orius thinks, being able to chant "Kill all the jews" is not a political stance.
Argue semantics if you want, but tolerance of intolerance leads to no tolerance at all.
UberTag
Member
So these people at the council meeting have been detained but still no one has been locked up for the assault on Deandre Harris, eh?
Nobody believes in personal accountability in the year 2017.
the only thing neo nazis should get is a boot to the neck honestly
They are fucking Nazis. They're arming themselves, threatening the lives and safety of others, and killed a woman just a week ago. They are fucking terrorists.
No one is arguing semantics here. Saying Nazism isn't a political stance is a very silly and pointless thing to say. Racial politics is politics. I mean, the world is experiencing it right now. Nationalism and racism are major political agendas and have proven to be pretty effective.
"I think taxes should be lowered" is a political statement
"I think we need to make this a white country by any means necessary" is a threat
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
They want to form a government that only allows citizenship for white, non Jewish, non Catholic people. Just because their ideas are disgusting doesn't mean they're not political. Regressive politics are still politics.
"I think taxes should be raised" is a threat
"I think benefits should be stopped" is a threat
"I don't think we should have universal healthcare" is a threat
They are still political statements
Demoskinos
Member
This has been all over national news and they want to try to sweep it under the rug and hope nobody notices. Get the fuck out of here with that shit.
The sad reality is that the president of the country has already validated them.
3 people died and another was almost beaten to death, you would think they investigate what happened
And you would think that would cause folks to push back even more
But white supremacy is a hell of a drug
And you would think that would cause folks to push back even more
But white supremacy is a hell of a drug
"Kill all the Jews" is hate speech/incitement and thus illegal.
"Blood and soil" and "white lives matter" are not hate speech or incitement, and thus should be legal. There were a lot of shitty people at the rally, but to my knowledge nothing was chanted that reaches the "hate speech" bar (and no, dogwhistles/slogans you think are transparent declarations of genocidal intent don't count). "Jews will not replace us" is the closest thing I've heard and it falls well short IMO.
Tolerance of intolerance can lead to bad things, yes. But Hitler is not an inevitable fate for all democracies. Meanwhile prohibiting "only the really bad speech" is its own slippery slope (one the US has fallen down itself--see the Red Scare).
My opinion on this as a non-American is that as long as America wants to have the pretense of "free speech" as a unique entitlement, things like this will be a problem. By allowing people to say anything they want, there is always the risk that populism overwrites social decency. Of course there will be long arguments about who has the right to decide what is decent. In many other developed countries, there are laws against being openly racist. It is simply something unacceptable.
This is the worst part about this.
It should have been the ONLY thing they talked about.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
and there it is
ok and if any of the people campaigning for those things start carrying guns and saying at their rallies that violence can and should be used to advance their threats I'll take them as violent threats and not just threats as in promises
rokkerkory
Member
They need tobe fired
Is not that a big win for the neonazis, the mayor and the council were the one to order the removal of the confederate statues.
I don't like the suggestion that stances that are "political" are somehow inherently valid, honorable, etc. I don't get how anybody could suggest that there haven't been mountains of heinous things throughout history that were the result of political ideology. We shouldn't be treating brazenly terrible stances like white nationalism as apolitical, because that can allow ghoulish politicians to get away with horrible things as long as they keep up appearances.
This is unrelated from whether I think the permit should have been issued, though (it shouldn't have been).
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
They didn't order the removal of the statues; they ordered the relocation of the statue to another park not so central in town.
Edit: Mea culpa; it looks like they subsequently did vote to remove it entirely. My bad.
adversesolutions
Member
I was watching the rally live on a couple of the fascists' streams, and there were multiple points on Saturday in the park at which the bearded guy from the Vice video was leading people in a chant to "throw Jews into the ovens". That was on James Allsup's stream. There were a couple others like MillenialMatt and others who were live streaming, and assuming the archives are still up and they haven't been scrubbed to cover their tracks, if you spend some time watching them it will be obvious to you how clearly they were far over the hate line they were in both words and actions (this should be obvious given that many of the attendees were Nazis and KKK, but if you really need evidence...).
You do realize that the sentiment I was responding to ("tolerance of intolerance leads to no tolerance at all") is already a slippery slope, yes?
The reason slippery slope is a fallacy is because it leads to extreme conclusions. "We can't do A because it will lead to Z." In the real world such trends aren't inevitable: we must be reasonable about where we draw the line.
"If we let Nazis hold rallies then we'll get another Hitler" is fallacious, just as "if we ban hate speech we'll end up in 1984" is.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I hate to say it in this instance, but I think you are correct. I can't imagine what other heinous acts these people would turn to if they feel like they can't protest. By the same token though, I wonder if this sort of adherence to free speech would be held if a group dubbed themselves something like Pro-Isis Party and decided to protest.
You need to learn history.
The term "Nazi" is an abbreviation of the name their political party had.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Well at least it sounds like they accomplished something even though how they handled things initially sounded dumb as hell
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