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[Zozz]

the problem with chavez is that even though he is allowing free elections, they are in fact, not free because he has banned many other candidates before. and that's a FACT.

There is likely to be even less opposition now, I think Chavez has finally realized that killing away opponents is far more effective.

 

[xabre]

Let me tell you something, Chavez has ruin the country over the past years. While he has hardly improved the lives of poor and keeps feeding them delusions.

How disingenuous can you be? They vote for Chavez because they're delusional, that's it? That's your explaination for the what seven or eight elections/referendums Chavez has won. They're all just delusional, now other explanation or analysis necessary.

 

[Fun Factor]

fffuuuuuuuuuucccckkkk

yyyyeeeeaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!

 

[ColdDeckEd]

How about actually looking at the region in context, or the consistent and repeated attempts to destabilise Chavez's leadership in proper context (that'd be the 2002 failed coup, the nationwide strike soon after, the constant private media campaign waged against him). Countries in South and Central America have been subject to coup after coup and coup for fifty years. It's had paramilitary and rebel groups backed by the west for years, dictators backed by the CIA and placed in government for years, drug running cartels supported and backed by western governments for years. On and on and on this has occured, yet is repeatedly ignored and forgotten when considering people like Chavez.

No one would say Chavez doesn't have an autocratic lean, but in the context of how the poor in Venezuela and other South/Central American countries have suffered at the hands of pro-American regimes so what? The reason Chavez is voted in again and again is simple, it is the will of the people. They don't don't want corporate pro-US lackeys, the majority on Venezuela are clearly saying 'fuck that, we want some how who will look after our interests'. And in their estimation Chavez is looking after their interests.

So you are willing to concede he's got an autocratic lean, but its ok because the poor in Central and South America have suffered at the hands of pr-America regimes? I'm sorry, I don't buy it. I understand that people from that region (mostly poor) have suffered because of numerous American actions, policies, and stances, however that still doesn't justify what Chavez is doing. He can't continue to help the poor as a private citizen? BS. What he is doing is simply a power grab posing as a social revolution.

 

[rpmurphy]

So now we will hear him blame Americans on the international stage for the rest of his life. Cool beans.

On a side note. Don't mean any offense to Venezuelans, but I wish China would just stop dealing with these kinds of countries so it doesn't get flak by association. For some reason the government just likes to take the side of the rejects... nothing wrong with that, but it needs to have some standards so they don't just support people like Chavez for the sake of it.

 

[Zozz]

How disingenuous can you be? They vote for Chavez because they're delusional, that's it? That's your explaination for the what seven or eight elections/referendums Chavez has won. They're all just delusional, now other explanation or analysis necessary.

I have friends that are teachers and other professions that are required to vote for him because they would otherwise lose their jobs. I know people who have been waiting years and months for government food or health care, they keep voting for him because they're expecting something and nothing has come and of course perform dirty work, like getting rid of opposing votes.

While some have reaped the benefits, there is a far greater majority that continues to wait for it and they are always promised the same old things. Unless you've lived it, experienced and you hear the real stories and having people you love, have to stand crap like this.

 

[Stoney Mason]

On a side note. Don't mean any offense to Venezuelans, but I wish China would just stop dealing with these kinds of countries so it doesn't get flak by association. For some reason the government just likes to take the side of the rejects... nothing wrong with that, but it needs to have some standards so they don't just support people like Chavez for the sake of it.

Satire.

 

[Chumly]

I'm not gonna call someone who wins democratic elections a dictator. It's just retarded.

First of all :lol :lol :lol :lol if you think the "democratic elections" there actually free democratic elections like the US

Is he bad for the country?

Yes, Yes he is. Hes running it into the ground and its not stopping.

Maybe he is but these people aren't being forced at gunpoint to vote for him, are they?

Yea people are just JUMPING at the oppurtunity to not vote for him and lose their jobs.

They have to live with their decision .

So you dont care about the welfare of the people there? You probably dont care about the daily genocide that happens in Africa either.

What do you care about? Did you care about Iraq? Or is that only because you dont like george bush. Its nice knowing you only care about people when it fits your agenda.

but I think it's BS for foreigners to say they made the wrong choice

This forum is invested for foreigners that dont like how the US is run. Should we just tell them to suck it up also?

 

[Cloudy]

This forum is invested for foreigners that dont like how the US is run. Should we just tell them to suck it up also?

Yes..

 

[rpmurphy]

Satire.

No kidding. China's foreign relations are a freaking joke. On the financial side, they work closely with Western nations like US, those in Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc. But politically, they usually don't support any of them. Instead, they take friends with people like Milosevic, Saddam, Mugabe, Chavez, Ahmenijad (sp? sorry), and countries like North Korea, Cuba, Russia, and Pakistan. What the hell.

 

[Stoney Mason]

No kidding. China's foreign relations are a freaking joke. On the financial side, they work closely with Western nations like US, those in Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc. But politically, they usually don't support any of them. Instead, they take friends with people like Milosevic, Saddam, Mugabe, Chavez, Ahmenijad (sp? sorry), and countries like North Korea, Cuba, Russia, and Pakistan. What the hell.

Well they are an authoritarian government that clamps down on the social freedoms within their society. Arguably they have more in common with those countries.

 

[gutter_trash]

No kidding. China's foreign relations are a freaking joke. On the financial side, they work closely with Western nations like US, those in Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc. But politically, they usually don't support any of them. Instead, they take friends with people like Milosevic, Saddam, Mugabe, Chavez, Ahmenijad (sp? sorry), and countries like North Korea, Cuba, Russia, and Pakistan. What the hell.

just like the US... China's foreign relations is 100% on self interest.

China's good will endeavors in Africa aren ot really good will, they are there for the resources.

The same for the US. Reagan and friends would okay anti-leftist contras in Latin American countries and have their heads of states replaced with US friendly dictators.
Because of self interest

the US's noise against Chavez is 100% about the oil. Big Oil sill controls congress

people try to make noise about authoritarianism, but if Chavez was the biggest exporter of rubber bands instead of oil, i'm sure the US wouldn't care about him

 

[MotherFan]

How about actually looking at the region in context, or the consistent and repeated attempts to destabilise Chavez's leadership in proper context (that'd be the 2002 failed coup, the nationwide strike soon after, the constant private media campaign waged against him). Countries in South and Central America have been subject to coup after coup and coup for fifty years. It's had paramilitary and rebel groups backed by the west for years, dictators backed by the CIA and placed in government for years, drug running cartels supported and backed by western governments for years. On and on and on this has occured, yet is repeatedly ignored and forgotten when considering people like Chavez.

No one would say Chavez doesn't have an autocratic lean, but in the context of how the poor in Venezuela and other South/Central American countries have suffered at the hands of pro-American regimes so what? The reason Chavez is voted in again and again is simple, it is the will of the people. They don't don't want corporate pro-US lackeys, the majority on Venezuela are clearly saying 'fuck that, we want some how who will look after our interests'. And in their estimation Chavez is looking after their interests.

I thought it was the fact that his opponents get harassed by the govt or thrown in jail. Guess I was wrong. Silly me.

And the only interest Chavez is looking out for is the ability to get power.

 

[avatar299]

Is there any concrete evidence that shows Chavez is a good leader. Him winning an election means jack shit if he can't get results, and clearly he isn't getting them.

When oil prices crush that countries economy, who will the Chavez defense force blame then. Miami?

edit: gutter_trash the 80's are over. Reagan is dead. He has nothing to do with Venezuela still being a shit country.

 

[titiklabingapat]

67% turnout speaks for itself, really.

It sucks but the people have spoken.

This applies to Hamas as well.

The West will just make it worst by meddling. Again, see the Hamas situation in Palestine. Let them be and let them sink or swim on their own.

 

[Stoney Mason]

This applies to Hamas as well.

And other middle eastern countries that have weak democracies or really quasi-dictatorships.

Once again not saying they can't and shouldn't be critcized but Democracy does not produce tidy solutions that everyone is going to love.

Notice how American politicans bag less on Saudi Arabia for instance than Venezuela.

 

[Kipe]

67% turnout speaks for itself, really.

That's better than the recent american presidential election which was a record turnout. What does that say about america? :lol

 

[ColdDeckEd]

That's better than the recent american presidential election which was a record turnout. What does that say about america? :lol

Oh I don't know, maybe America being like a million times bigger than Venezuela might have something to do with that. Plus when you are forcing people to vote, that tends to skew things as well.

 

[jorma]

Oh I don't know, maybe America being like a million times bigger than Venezuela might have something to do with that. Plus when you are forcing people to vote, that tends to skew things as well.

So essentially, what a 67% turnout shows us is that USA rules and Venezuela sucks?

 

[Forsete]

Awesome. It wouldn't have been fair to the Venezuelan people not to have this great man at the steering wheel. ;o)

Btw, I dont really see the problem. In Sweden we've had prime ministers who have been just that for over 20 years. If they do a good job they can stay, if they fuck up they are off the post next election (and the party itself can demand he step down).

 

[fortified_concept]

Awesome. It wouldn't have been fair to the Venezuelan people not to have this great man at the steering wheel. ;o)

Btw, I dont really see the problem. In Sweden we've had prime ministers who have been just that for over 20 years. If they do a good job they can stay, if they fuck up they are off the post next election (and the party itself can demand he step down).

Same here in Greece. Most European countries obviously have dictatorships. :lol

Oh corporate media, how untrustworthy you are. I also like how they use keywords like "term limits" to confuse people into thinking there won't be elections anymore.

 

[Yamauchi]

He's not a bad guy. Human development indicators in Venezuela have improved substantially during his rule, but scrapping term limits seems a bit much. Nonetheless, it is the will of the people. But if you're waiting for him to go down in flames, just wait a couple of years. It's estimated that with oil prices below $45 Venezuela's $20 billion in reserves will be depleted by Q3 of this year. After that they'll either have to start making significant budget cuts or start taking big foreign loans.

 

[Hypnotoad]

I disagreed with the 2007 referendum and would have voted no, mostly because of those points:

-abolish presidential term limits, allowing for indefinite re-election of the president (not allowed for any other political post)
-reorganize the country's administrative districts and allow the president to control elected state governors and mayors by an unelected “popular power” dependent on the presidency
-increase the presidential term from six to seven years
-allow the president to declare an unlimited state of emergency

This time, the presidents powers were not to be extended and the abolishment of term limits applies to all elected officials. That's a big difference and shows that Chavez, intent to continue ruling, knows how to compromise. The EU is much worse in that regard. The Constitution has been voted against twice, than it became the Reform Treaty. Even though 96% of it is the same and nothing substantial has been changed, it wasn't put to referendum in any country but Ireland. And they voted against it. Now what happens? Another refendum for the same exact treaty without ANY change one year later. The EU has promised to let every country have a commisioner, but they won't include it in the treaty. We really live in democratic times.

 

[clemenx]

Not surprising, the "opposition" in here must be the most stupid one in the world they keep having their heads in their asses, its too easy for Chavez to be popular, and this has nothing to do with him using all the government for his campaign.

EVERYTHING that is happening from 2005 to date is opposition's fault because of that stupid, idiotic, there are no adjectives to describe the decision of not entering the parliamentary elections. They gave Chavez a free pass to do whatever the fuck he wanted to.

 

[Instigator]

I don't understand how nobody in this fucking shit hole country hasn't managed to put a bullet on this guys head. I'm from there and it pisses me off, how this guys has turned my country into a shit hole.

Gee, I understand people who can have political differences, but can we really get away with assassination talk on this forum?

 

[worldrunover]

He's almost as bad as Bloomberg!

 

[fortified_concept]

This time, the presidents powers were not to be extended and the abolishment of term limits applies to all elected officials. That's a big difference and shows that Chavez, intent to continue ruling, knows how to compromise. The EU is much worse in that regard. The Constitution has been voted against twice, than it became the Reform Treaty. Even though 96% of it is the same and nothing substantial has been changed, it wasn't put to referendum in any country but Ireland. And they voted against it. Now what happens? Another refendum for the same exact treaty without ANY change one year later. The EU has promised to let every country have a commisioner, but they won't include it in the treaty. We really live in democratic times.

I don't want to derail the thread but EU has become a fucking joke. The policians pass unpopular decisions through EU and when the people complain they say it's an "EU decision" like they had nothing to do with it. It's enfuriating and appalling. They've been trying to enforce this disgusting corporate "Constitution" on us for years. The capitalists and corporations have been using EU as their indirect dictatorship. They take no responsibility for EU decisions while europeans are still oblivious about what's going on.

 

[D4Danger]

For.

 

[ChoklitReign]

This is why I can never see Milk: Sean Penn is friends with this guy. Thanks a lot. Your film is good but I never want you to have an Oscar or become a multimillionaire if you advocate Marxist socialism.

 

[Hypnotoad]

This is why I can never see Milk: Sean Penn is friends with this guy. Thanks a lot. Your film is good but I never want you to have an Oscar or become a multimillionaire if you advocate Marxist socialism.

You serious? I mean, I don't like Tom Cruise or John Travolta because they're scientists, or Chuck Norris and the likes, who promoted a religious fanatic in US elections. But that doesn't stop me from watching movies with them. I even tried watching Red Dawn - and just stopped after half an hour because it was such a bad movie, but not because of the ridicolous portrayal of the Soviets.

And anyway, Chavez doesn't stand for marxist socialism, but for left-wing nationalism or "Bolivarianism", as it's called in Venezuela.