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[tetsuoxb]

I was just watching a Japanese TV special on the Anti-Japanese demonstrations in China, and while obviously biased (not discussing the causes to be exact) the way the Chinese are comporting themselves is absolutely ape-like.

Today in Shanghai, they ran around smashing anything Japanese. If you were a Chinese person who happened to own a Japanese eating establishment, they were going to smash your store. If you were a Chinese girl driving a Japanese car, they were going to smash your car. If you were a little Chinese girl just trying to get home, you got blindsided by flying debris. Mob mentality is going strong, and the worst part of it is the Chinese polic are doing absolutely nothing to disperse the crowds.

They are so afraid of being stuck with another Teinemen Square that they wont stop Japanese nationals from being beaten, Chinese stores being smashed, etc. If you watch the footage, the majority of the protestors are civil, with a small group of agitators causing the damage.

Id love to see some Chinese in Japan get a foot put up their ass just to give the Chinese an idea of how oafish they are acting, but thankfully modern Japan is above acting in such a manner. First the soccer match last year, then the sub, now this. The Chinese need to chill out.

 

[DCharlie]

man, i totally forgot about the sub !!!

 

[radioheadrule83]

It'd be great to see them put it down...

maybe theres something wrong with me but I was watching TV the other day and it was footage of some protesters being real assholes with the police, they had a bunch surrounded and they were pelting them with fireworks and rocks. The narrator explained that it lasted quite a while and was a bit of an ordeal, but in the end support arrived. They then edited to cut to riot police marching in banging their shields and this crazy dramatic music came on. They shot a load of people with bean bags, there was some sweet justice dealt out with truncheons and some guy was on the floor crying because he thought he was blinded by mace. It was fucking hilarious!

I imagine it was very satisfying.
Seeing violence/disorder met with extreme violence :lol I fucking love it

 

[NetMapel]

I don't understand by your comments about of "modern Japan is above acting in such manner". That is, first of all, an extremely arrogant comment as it was the Japanese who caused the up-roar with the whole textbook and territory disputes. There has also been reports of anti-Chinese movement in Japan recently as well. I am not saying the Chinese are doing great by rioting like crazy, I'm just saying I don't know what's up with your comments about "modern Japan" and stuff. Why are you talking as if Japan is vastly surperior when they've got major news censorship as well, which means you don't know what's going on in Japan ?

 

[Ninjas4Less]

I think its a case of everyone over there being stupid.

 

[karasu]

Nationalism is a bitch.

 

[Ninjas4Less]

Yeah its bad enough over here.

 

[Draff]

I don't understand by your comments about of "modern Japan is above acting in such manner". That is, first of all, an extremely arrogant comment as it was the Japanese who caused the up-roar with the whole textbook and territory disputes. There has also been reports of anti-Chinese movement in Japan recently as well. I am not saying the Chinese are doing great by rioting like crazy, I'm just saying I don't know what's up with your comments about "modern Japan" and stuff. Why are you talking as if Japan is vastly surperior when they've got major news censorship as well, which means you don't know what's going on in Japan ?

Major news censorship? Links please. Critics of the LDP are broadcasted there.

 

[tetsuoxb]

Yeah talking about censorship in regards to a Japan China discussion is stupid.

All I know is this, if I went to Chinatown in Kobe, I would not be seeing a mob of Japanese breaking doors and destroying Japanese owned Chinese restuarants because they are Chinese.

Whitewashing history in a textbook is one thing, a bunch of commie hooligans beating up Japanese exchange students and destroying property owned by their own fucking country men because of the nationality of the product is another.

 

[NetMapel]

Major news censorship? Links please. Critics of the LDP are broadcasted there.

Well, I seem to recall major news censorship about the SARS incidents in Japan. I have friends in Tokyo who knows that there are SARS-infected Japanese in Tokyo, but the government would not broadcast the news to the public about that. Instead, the government kept on reassuring there is no SARS in Japan. Of course, that's only according to my friends, so I do not have a very legitimate news website or something to prove that.

 

[tetsuoxb]

I was in Japan when SARS happened, even flew at the time, and I can tell you that it was not censored in the least.

Everytime someone who knew someone who knew someone who shook hands with someone who once saw someone who eventually got SARS walk across the street it was in every newspaper and TV news show. They would start manhunts and such.

The bigger issue is that your reason for saying there is news censorship in Japan was your friend who said that the Tokyo government just happened to be hiding SARS cases. Dude, you have no fuckin clue what you are talking about.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Yeah talking about censorship in regards to a Japan China discussion is stupid.

All I know is this, if I went to Chinatown in Kobe, I would not be seeing a mob of Japanese breaking doors and destroying Japanese owned Chinese restuarants because they are Chinese.

Whitewashing history in a textbook is one thing, a bunch of commie hooligans beating up Japanese exchange students and destroying property owned by their own fucking country men because of the nationality of the product is another.

Being communist and chinese has nothing to do with their actions. As you pointed out, it's a minority group of people causing the problems. So why not just label them as racist/nationalist jerks and let that be it. What the Chinese government does about this is another issue. But they have human rights concerns that will probably be spun in a bad way regardless of their actions. PEACE.

 

[Shinobi]

Id love to see some Chinese in Japan get a foot put up their ass just to give the Chinese an idea of how oafish they are acting

Way to murder your own point. :lol

 

[jadehorizon1]

Next thing youll know, China will invade Taiwan and drag the US and Japan into a territory war







...






oh my

 

[Blackace]

Modern Japan is above this? hahaha since when... just on saturday I saw two hummers rolling in Akihabara screaming that Japan needs an army to bring Japan back to its glory days... don't kid yourself. Japan is still very proud country...

 

[norinrad21]

Thing is China could slowly be pushing Japan to do crazy things, so far i have a feeling uncle Sam has been keeping Japan in check but for how long if China continues to ignore whats going on atm

 

[nitewulf]

i dont know what your ethnic background is tetsuo, but its easy to say these things when you havent been affected in anyway. i come from a country that had to gain its freedom through war in 1971, and after all these years, there is still bad blood between us and pakistanis. and it'll not go away any time soon.
as for the mob mentality that yo're seeing on TV, some countries put forth a greater emphasis on political display, china is one such country, india is another, people get very passionate and start breaking stuff. japan is different, much like the USA, political demonstrations are very subdued. its not because as you put it, the chinese are a bunch of "commie" hooligans. rather, thats the political atmosphere of the country, as opposed to japan.

 

[Chrono]

Modern Japan is above this? hahaha since when... just on saturday I saw two hummers rolling in Akihabara screaming that Japan needs an army to bring Japan back to its glory days... don't kid yourself. Japan is still very proud country...

Can you really blame them though...

 

[john tv]

Japan > China

PWNED

 

[Ghost]

What happened China...you used to be cool...

 

[goodcow]

What happened China...you used to be cool...

:lol :lol

 

[retardboy]

Yeah yeah... Take your shots now, we'll rule the world someday.

 

[norinrad21]

Yeah yeah... Take your shots now, we'll rule the world someday.

Bangalore: A Tibetan on Sunday staged a dramatic protest from atop the main building of the Indian Institute of Science at Bangalore in a breach of security when Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao was interacting with top scientists on the ground floor.

Tibetan activist Tenzin Tsundue emerged from the balcony of the tower, unfurled a ‘Tibetan flag’ and a banner with the message “Free Tibet,” minutes after the visiting dignitary was ushered in for the scheduled interaction.

http://sify.com/news/othernews/fullstory.php?id=13714310

 

[Jacobi]

They should better demonstrate for a better China.

 

[GG-Duo]

Again, please be careful about your generalizations. This is a small group of Chinese who are acting in this manner. Most people (Chinese included!) are absolutely sick of these violent actions.

At the same time..
If you pay attention, most of the media reports have been trying to depict the Chinese government as encouraging these protests. However, if you read beyond the bylines, this is certainly not true. There have been official statements against the violence.

Did they do ENOUGH to curb the violence? No.
Are they using these protests as a political tool to flex its muscle? Absolutely.
Did these violent actions stem from a biased and questionable education culture? Yeah.

But I'm just tired of hearing people paint this as some black-and-white conflict where the Chinese are depicted as communist moronic oafs. It's an offensive generalization.

In terms of this conflict, it is possible to decry these violent actions, while not siding with the Japanese government. You can say "this group of Chinese people are acting crazy", while saying "Japan should not publish such textbooks". Let's keep our heads on here.......

My head hurts... I'll add to this post later.

 

[kumanoki]

Okay, look at it this way:

For China, it's the equivalent of having a stubborn coworker with a persecution complex who still keeps screwing up basic jobs around the office, but is now putting in to be on the executive board.

For Japan, it's the equivalent to yelled at by construction workers. If you ignore them, eventually they will lose interest.

 

[tetsuoxb]

My point is that the Chinese need to stop violent rioting.

There is currently no violent nationalist riots in Japan.

Blackace, the ultra-right wing crowd in their hummers can scream all they want, they arent destroying property and causing bodily harm (except to your ears). There is clearly a line they know they cant cross, and apparently the Chinese government forgot to tell Chinese nationalists the same thing. The "official" statements are bullshit cover, giving the government pretext to shut the demonstrations down if they turn democratic. The Chinese government wants these to be happening. Demostrations have to be approved, or they are usually shut down; however, these have been unapproved demostrations that have been allowed to continue. So it isnt just nationalist knuckleheads, it is implicitly condoned by the government.

As far as GG-Duo's post goes - You can not just saying "Don't publish these textbooks". It seems the world wants everyone that the textbooks are the pretext for this. They are just a small bit - it has quite a bit more to do with security council membership, Taiwai, natural resources, and ultimately de facto hedgemony over East Asian power. You don't seem violent protests in the US by Native Americans over the whitewashing of history in US textbooks. Nor does the western media introduce the widely held and researched belief in Japan that wartime atrocities are exaggerated (and I have read some of these, they can be quite convincing). It is being played out as "oh silly Japan. Denying the facts," when it is more like "Oh silly Japan. Still questioning the facts."

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

China will rule the world in 20 years. They can do what they want.

 

[MrSingh]

I shall march the streets of Akihabara proclaiming to be Chinese.

 

[kumanoki]

I shall march the streets of Akihabara proclaiming to be Chinese.

Shit, like anyone in Akihabara cares. 80% of the hardware in those tiny, fifth floor junk shops is Chinese.

 

[Prince]

the point is tetsuoxb that your last paragraph in your opening post makes you look like a japan loving hypocrite. also you follow up posts are all pretty anti-chinese and full of generalisations.

you are also trying to defend the position of japan although this censorship thing is certainly not an incident and i think raising a whole generation of people thinking japan was the big victim of this war while fighting for some noble cause is way worse then those things that are happening in china right now.

Offcourse when you look at what's written in chinese textbooks there's nothing mentioned about al the millions of people that died during Mao reign or the tiananmen square incident.

 

[Draff]

Again, please be careful about your generalizations. This is a small group of Chinese who are acting in this manner. Most people (Chinese included!) are absolutely sick of these violent actions.

At the same time..
If you pay attention, most of the media reports have been trying to depict the Chinese government as encouraging these protests. However, if you read beyond the bylines, this is certainly not true. There have been official statements against the violence.

Did they do ENOUGH to curb the violence? No.
Are they using these protests as a political tool to flex its muscle? Absolutely.
Did these violent actions stem from a biased and questionable education culture? Yeah.

But I'm just tired of hearing people paint this as some black-and-white conflict where the Chinese are depicted as communist moronic oafs. It's an offensive generalization.

In terms of this conflict, it is possible to decry these violent actions, while not siding with the Japanese government. You can say "this group of Chinese people are acting crazy", while saying "Japan should not publish such textbooks". Let's keep our heads on here.......

My head hurts... I'll add to this post later.

Indirectly though, by not doing enough, they are letting it occur. They did have the ability to quash the protest but they didn't, unlike other unrelated protests.

As for the generalizations, I agree. However, it goes both ways... (In regards to generalizations about not just the Japanese, but Taiwanese... etc). If you go to more Asian-centred forums, I'm sure the generalizations would be in reverse.

 

[Jonnyram]

Maybe Japan would fix their history books if China stopped making shit like this...

 

[Boogie]

China will rule the world in 20 years. They can do what they want.

No, they won't

 

[tetsuoxb]

the point is tetsuoxb that your last paragraph in your opening post makes you look like a japan loving hypocrite. also you follow up posts are all pretty anti-chinese and full of generalisations.

you are also trying to defend the position of japan although this censorship thing is certainly not an incident and i think raising a whole generation of people thinking japan was the big victim of this war while fighting for some noble cause is way worse then those things that are happening in china right now.

Offcourse when you look at what's written in chinese textbooks there's nothing mentioned about al the millions of people that died during Mao reign or the tiananmen square incident.

I am anti-chinese in so much as they are letting innocent people get hurt by mob violence, both Japanese and Chinese innocents, to prove a political point. You also have absolutely no understanding of how Japanese think about the war. Have you ever spent time speaking with them about it? They do not feel victimized by the war, they feel ashamed. I have never heard one of my students (this supposed generation raised to think they were noble) ever say anything to that effect. However, they hide the shame of the war. You would never see the embracing of "we fucked up bad" ala Germany from the Japanese people. It just does not work like that culturally here. Mobusho (the Japanese education ministry that approves textbooks) would approve something highly critical of Japan, but people are not going to write it. The Japanese are not going to wallow in their guilt, especially if the facts of the incidents (i.e. their scale) are debatable to most Japanese. The sense of victimization comes from the bomb and from the post-war occupation. In both senses, their national pride was victimized, and it is still palpable to this day. Takashi Murakami has an exhibition called "Little Boy" about Otaku art going on in NY right now, and his thesis is that otaku expressionism is the most direct dealing with war guilt/occupation shame and the bomb that has manifested itself in Modern Japan. He says that contemporary Japanese shun otaku because their world forces them to more directly deal with these feelings. I suggest you read the excellent NY Times magazine piece explaining this all, unfortunately it is archive now, so you should track down the April 3 NYTimes mag or pay up here http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50816F93E5B0C708CDDAD0894DD404482.

 

[DCharlie]

"Blackace, the ultra-right wing crowd in their hummers can scream all they want, they arent destroying property and causing bodily harm (except to your ears). "

actually, they are - they've started attacking the Chinese embassy in tokyo. I'm in training at the moment, but i'll find the links.

The trouble comes when one of the following happens : Chinese citizens or Japanese citizens get into one of the equivalent opposing embassys and someone is killed.

Then that'll be when it all goes crazy.

With 10,000 reportedly trying to get into the Japanese embassy, that could get VERY ugly.

"You also have absolutely no understanding of how Japanese think about the war. Have you ever spent time speaking with them about it? They do not feel victimized by the war, they feel ashamed."

here in is the fundamental mistake - what do the government think about war? I know that _most_ people feel shame, but what the fuck does that matter? It's the government that'll be taking that "hmm... war or not?" choice.

 

[tetsuoxb]

"Blackace, the ultra-right wing crowd in their hummers can scream all they want, they arent destroying property and causing bodily harm (except to your ears). "

actually, they are - they've started attacking the Chinese embassy in tokyo. I'm in training at the moment, but i'll find the links.

The trouble comes when one of the following happens : Chinese citizens or Japanese citizens get into one of the equivalent opposing embassys and someone is killed.

Then that'll be when it all goes crazy.

With 10,000 reportedly trying to get into the Japanese embassy, that could get VERY ugly.

"You also have absolutely no understanding of how Japanese think about the war. Have you ever spent time speaking with them about it? They do not feel victimized by the war, they feel ashamed."

here in is the fundamental mistake - what do the government think about war? I know that _most_ people feel shame, but what the fuck does that matter? It's the government that'll be taking that "hmm... war or not?" choice.

Wow... I have not seen anything about the Chinese embassy attack. I will look for it now.

EDIT: Found it http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200504161756.htm.

EDIT 2: http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/20050416p2a00m0dm004000c.html Quotes included.

OH THE FUCKING IRONY! THE IRONY! China protests to Japan over paint, but refuses similar action after a Japanese protest over actual violence. THE IRONY!

 

[ScientificNinja]

First everyone bemoans the suppression of the Tiananmen Square protests. Then when protests are allowed to happen, everyone starts wagging their sanctimonious fingers at their 'gusto'.

I realise I'm over-simplifying the issues, but the fundamental irony is a bit hard to avoid. What do you want the Chinese to do? Run their country the way George W Bush runs America? If they did, they'd have taken Taiwan by force and possibly invaded Japan years ago

 

[Boogie9IGN]

Bangalore: A Tibetan on Sunday staged a dramatic protest from atop the main building of the Indian Institute of Science at Bangalore in a breach of security when Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao was interacting with top scientists on the ground floor.

Tibetan activist Tenzin Tsundue emerged from the balcony of the tower, unfurled a ‘Tibetan flag’ and a banner with the message “Free Tibet,” minutes after the visiting dignitary was ushered in for the scheduled interaction.

http://sify.com/news/othernews/fullstory.php?id=13714310

That's so cool

I'll always hate what the Commies did to Tibet

 

[Prince]

well since i study Japanese Languages and Cultures and my great grandfather was killed in a japanese laborcamp in Birma i have always been intrested in this subject.
From speaking with japanese people i often found that there is a lack of knowlegde about what happend during the war. to be honest i think this is a problem with a lot of young people (or have always been a problem) that they know very little about there own history.

problem is that in Japan political leaders have sent mixed messages over the years and things like the comfort women, unit 731 and Nanking are severley downplayed. so those things aren't really helping giving young people a good sense of what happend.

i hear that pride thing a lot but i personally think that's a very weak excuse.

i agree with this quote from Asahi Newspapers, Katsuichi Honda (1999) which i got from the book Japan in Transformation 1952-2000 by Jeffrey Kingston.

...unlike Germany and Italy, (japan) has not followed up on war crimes of its own people. By not acknowledging these crimes, we fail to grasp the complete picture of our own national character. Lacking this understanding, we keep appealing to the world, talking about Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the nuclear situation. We, therefore, gain a reputation for emphasizing our role as victim without even reflecting upon our own violent aspect.

btw I myself absolutly agree that the chinese goverment could and should stop those crazy riots.

this is a very complex situation with both sides that are very stubborn and i hope they will get to some kind of agreement before this get's out of hand.

unfortunatly i can't read the NY times article since i'm not in the US.

 

[Blackace]

As far as GG-Duo's post goes - You can not just saying "Don't publish these textbooks". It seems the world wants everyone that the textbooks are the pretext for this. They are just a small bit - it has quite a bit more to do with security council membership, Taiwai, natural resources, and ultimately de facto hedgemony over East Asian power. You don't seem violent protests in the US by Native Americans over the whitewashing of history in US textbooks. Nor does the western media introduce the widely held and researched belief in Japan that wartime atrocities are exaggerated (and I have read some of these, they can be quite convincing). It is being played out as "oh silly Japan. Denying the facts," when it is more like "Oh silly Japan. Still questioning the facts."

There are many Japanese professors of History that teach Nanking never happened... at all.. And the Government does pretty much deny the fact that it happened... Japanese people don' t even know about why China is so mad at them now. It is sad to talk to some Japanese and they feel so upset because they feel that China just decided to hate Japan; out of the blue...

 

[NetMapel]

tetsuoxb, please understand the situation from a non-Japanese perspective. The "modern Japan" that you've talked about are denying their past war-crime like little babies, and the fact that they have been bidding for a spot in the UN Security Council will definitely upset the Chinese. Then add in the ocean territorial dispute that has recently risen, it is no wonder why the Chinese are upset. Of course, they went on a protest and destroy any Japanese related things. YES THOSE PROTESTS ARE RATHER CHILDISH since it is just downright destruction. However, you are ignoring the fact that people have limits to their patience, and Chinese are people too. Therefore, when all these things were added up together, they got extremely upset and went on a protest like Americans, or Canadians, or anybody for that matter would do. I do not understand why you are making the Chinese look inferior.

I am a Taiwanese, and there are many reasons why I would not like Chinese. However, I do not degrade them as some sort of second class people who are not allowed to go on protests for something they believe is right (and it is for a worthy cause). Yes, the government is not doing much to stop these riots for political reasoning, but countries do many things for their own political benefits anyways. Japan censored its SARS breakout news from the world so people didn't know Japan had SARS. It also minimized its war-crimes back in World War II. All of these things are for political reasons. Other countries like US do things for their political benefits all the time as well. I just don't get what the point is you are trying to make. Are you saying Chinese are not allowed to go on protests against the Japanese because of their arrogant behaviour ? Are you saying Japan has every rights to go on protests against the Chinese after all these (which will only make things worse, way to go "modern Japan").

Anyways, try to understand this situation by reading news from outside sources as well instead of just Japanese news websites. Of course Japanese news websites would be bias, and you know that.

 

[tetsuoxb]

You are still on about the SARS thing.

Other than your "friend" Id like some specific proof of a Japanese SARS outbreak. I just spent some time googling a variety of key words, and nothing comes up. NOTHING. So Japan, a free and open society, can do a better job of masking internal affairs than any country on the planet, deceiving all multinational agencies involved, and completely cracking down on anyone who knew anyone who could possibly even have made a blog post about the issue.

Dude, you are full of shit on this, and you know it.
------------

The point I am trying to make is that I do not feel that Japan does the kind of blanket denial of war sins that many accuse them of. If Japan honestly felt it did nothing wrong, the article 9 issue would not be such a big one in Japan.

You spend a whole lot of time apologizing for China, when all recent provocations have been mostly Chinese. Sending a Chinese sub into disputed territorial waters, the soccer stadium incident, etc. were all unprovoked. Chinese sub was sent into the EEZ before any consideration was made to the recent drilling decision. The Japanese soccer team was acosted during an Asian cup match in a manner that should have gotten the Chinese national team a rascism empty stadium suspension like those handed out in Europe.

The Chinese people should be allowed to protest whatever they want, PEACEFULLY. However, there are goons that are not only destroying Japanese owned property, they are destroying the property of their own countrymen and women simply because it is of Japanese origin. The Chinese government is conspicious in its inaction.

The Chinese government, despite their pro-market reforms, is at its core no good, at least to me.

As far as my new sources, since international wire services, American, British, and Japanese new organizations have not yet educated me to your level, could please give me the email address of your friend in Tokyo? He seems to have the inside track on what is really going on in the world.

 

[number386]

First everyone bemoans the suppression of the Tiananmen Square protests. Then when protests are allowed to happen, everyone starts wagging their sanctimonious fingers at their 'gusto'.

I realise I'm over-simplifying the issues, but the fundamental irony is a bit hard to avoid. What do you want the Chinese to do? Run their country the way George W Bush runs America? If they did, they'd have taken Taiwan by force and possibly invaded Japan years ago

Your analogy is totally off base. The tienanmen protest was brutally surrpressed because it was a protest against the chinese government. If the recent protest was protesting the chinese government rather than Japan, make no mistakes Chinese soldiers will be busting heads open, tanks will be called in, and torture will be used on the protesters to find out who the protest organisers are.


Actually China does run the country the Japan used to (Irony). China invaded tibet and tried to culturally eradicate them forcing the tibetians to adopt chinese culture, much like the japanese tried to do against the koreans, (Irony) And Chinese textbooks say China has a natural right to Tibet. (hypocritical) China has done some horrific acts to the tibetans but most incidents went undocumented as their was very few people to document them.

China does not have the balls to attack Taiwan, as U.S has a very strong interest in China not getting Taiwan even going so far as to sell the taiwanese warships. Forget Japan as US has obligations to defend any incursions towards Japan, either way if it wasn't for the U.S China would of gone after them.

Maybe Japan would fix their history books if China stopped making shit like this...

WTF is that :lol :lol :lol

I remember seeing the Chinese bootleg of the iPod shuffle but thats hillarious.

 

[ScientificNinja]

Your analogy is totally off base. The tienanmen protest was brutally surrpressed because it was a protest against the chinese government. If the recent protest was protesting the chinese government rather than Japan, make no mistakes Chinese soldiers will be busting heads open, tanks will be called in, and torture will be used on the protesters to find out who the protest organisers are.


Actually China does run the country the Japan used to (Irony). China invaded tibet and tried to culturally eradicate them forcing the tibetians to adopt chinese culture, much like the japanese tried to do against the koreans, (Irony) And Chinese textbooks say China has a natural right to Tibet. (hypocritical) China has done some horrific acts to the tibetans but most incidents went undocumented as their was very few people to document them.

China does not have the balls to attack Taiwan, as U.S has a very strong interest in China not getting Taiwan even going so far as to sell the taiwanese warships. Forget Japan as US has obligations to defend any incursions towards Japan, either way if it wasn't for the U.S China would of gone after them.

Off base? No, my friend, I think you missed the point of my analogy. I'm merely pointing towards the manner in which people outside of China are so fickle in their judgement of socio-political activities within China China stomps down on protesters, people are unhappy. China lets protesters run wild, people are unhappy. Again, it's a massive simplification of both circumstances, but I feel the core issue (our supposed approval of their activities) is rather ironic.

Personally I couldn't care less for what happened in Tibet or any of its past similarities to Japan any more than I do Japan's invasion of Nanking nor Germany's extermination of Jews. I'm from a different generation, trying to forge a future that's hopefully based on learning from the mistakes of the past. What I care about is truth, and in the instance of China's dislike of Japan, I think they're entirely justified. Probably just as justified as the Tibetans' dislike for China, but honestly, that seems a very separate issue to me.

China not having the balls to attack Taiwan? *shrug* I wouldn't know what they're thinking. Of this I am sure - the US is already waging a never-ending campaign in Iraq and appears to be heading in the same direction with Iran and North Korea. Do you think they'd be able to take China as well?

 

[Vormund]

Maybe Japan would fix their history books if China stopped making shit like this...

Bloody hell.

Have you also seen the cars that china have been making recently (esp ones made by Chery) They are just almost exact crappy imitations of Japanese cars (and the odd euro)

 

[ScientificNinja]

Bloody hell.

Have you also seen the cars that china have been making recently (esp ones made by Chery) They are just almost exact crappy imitations of Japanese cars (and the odd euro)

Vormund - you're in Australia, right? Have you seen the new $60 DVD recorders from mainland China they're selling at Coles and Woolies? Now that's a bloody crime

 

[Vormund]

Yeah I'm from Aus.

I try not to look at those crappy DVD players.

 

[number386]

Off base? No, my friend, I think you missed the point of my analogy. I'm merely pointing towards the manner in which people outside of China are so fickle in their judgement of socio-political activities within China China stomps down on protesters, people are unhappy. China lets protesters run wild, people are unhappy. Again, it's a massive simplification of both circumstances, but I feel the core issue (our supposed approval of their activities) is rather ironic.

Personally I couldn't care less for what happened in Tibet or any of its past similarities to Japan any more than I do Japan's invasion of Nanking nor Germany's extermination of Jews. I'm from a different generation, trying to forge a future that's hopefully based on learning from the mistakes of the past. What I care about is truth, and in the instance of China's dislike of Japan, I think they're entirely justified. Probably just as justified as the Tibetans' dislike for China, but honestly, that seems a very separate issue to me.

China not having the balls to attack Taiwan? *shrug* I wouldn't know what they're thinking. Of this I am sure - the US is already waging a never-ending campaign in Iraq and appears to be heading in the same direction with Iran and North Korea. Do you think they'd be able to take China as well?

The critiscm is based on the protests being the culmination of government sponsored propaganda, spurred by nationalism. Simplification in this matter should not be applied. You contridicted yourself in your second paragraph. It's my personal belief that wagin war upon Iraq was unjustifed, and the possibilites of war with Iran, and north korea is even further remote.

My grandmother escaped the invasion of Nanking with nothing more than the clothes on her back and a dowry. She was given a small bag of valuables and told to run - and she did, while her brothers and parents were butchered, her infant nephew's head smashed in by a rifle butt and her sister raped, tortured and killed. I've made my peace with this part of my family history, but I cannot reconcile the idea that the Japanese are virtually 'willing' the massacre out of their cultural consciousness. Even the Germans have recognised their part in WWII. The Japanese are proud and conservative to a fault and, as far as I'm concerned, they got everything they deserved when they were nuked. Americans may feel guilt over it. For what it's worth, if you can't feel pride for it, then I'll feel it for you. Karma's a bitch and I don't feel a shred of sympathy for them.

Needless to say, as someone working in the games industry, I am deeply conflicted every time I think about it.

http://forums.gaming-age.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1215150

I remember reading this and was one of the most heart wrenching post I have ever read, and it's a powerful now as the day I read it. I cannot image what your grandmother, and ancestors went through, you have my deepest sympathy. I think you have an invested interest in this matter. And for the record I believe the Japanese should disclose the full details of not only this but every incident in their history.

 

[norinrad21]

If a War breaks out China stands to lose the most though, you have uncle Sam, Japan, Taiwan and quite possibly the South Koreans all against China.