Chris Benoit family conference on CNN : official thread

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Keyser Soze said:
The WWE stock only seems to have gone down .50 since the Benoit thing, the posted graphic makes it seem much worse but the drop from 17.5 to 16.5 happened before the whole incident got out.

I was expecting a much bigger drop due to this.


If anything, it should rise from this.
Like they say even with bad publicity, it's good publicity. More interest & viewers for their product during this time.

I still don't want to jump to conclusions/band wagon without knowing the causes/motives for the deaths.
 
Honestly. This whole thing doesn't make me look at Benoit's work any differently.

Just makes me realize why he was such a quiet and private guy, the dude had some issues. That's life, sucks that he didn't just killed himself but also his son and wife.
 
Vince must be pissed that he had to cancel his character's death for a tribute show only to have a tributer for a murderer.
 
MSNBC reported minutes ago that the AP interviewed Chris Benoit's doctor, who said he saw Benoit on Friday and he didn't seem distressed. He said in the past he had prescribed testosterone at low levels perhaps due to his use of anabolic steroids in the past.

If so, that kinda goes along with the steroid withdrawal symptoms of voices, delusions, etc. Once you take this stuff and then come off of it, you're whole system is ****ed up.
 
Former wrestler and current trainer "Nightmare" Ken Wayne was on MSNBC this afternoon talking about the Benoit Family Tragedy. He said almost every guy at his school has asked about steroids. He said as long as they're at his school, they better not be on them. He said years ago they didn't know what they know now about steroids. He said roid rage affects people differently. He said he used steroids many years ago, and when he'd act irrationally, his wife would ask if that was him or the steroids talking. He said roid rage lasts only a few minutes, but in this case, Benoit had time to bind her hands and feet together. He said WWE has a steroid policy and Benoit tested negative in April, but he said if you have a prescription, your test will come back negative.

.
 
White Man said:
Yeah, especially since I can't find that exact quote of the DA saying he was killed with a chokehold, and I just checked like 6 stories on the incident.

I don't know if he said it previously, but here is the headline on abcnews.com:

DA: Wrestler's Son May Have Died in Chokehold

Investigators believe Benoit waited until Saturday morning to kill his 7-year-old son, Daniel, in the boy's bedroom. Ballard told ABC News the boy may have died after being put in a wrestling chokehold.
 
Fayette County District Attorney Scott Ballard joined Bob Frantz this morning on WTAM-1100 in Cleveland . Frantz’s topic on his show this morning was the Benoit story.

Frantz asked about reports that Nancy Benoit had bruises on her back from him having his knee in her back and bruises on her front from being pressed into the floor and the cable around her neck. He asked if this sounded like an incident of rage or something that was plotted out? Ballard said, in looking at the times of death – if it was rage, it was an extended period of rage. He says it doesn’t look like a temporary loss of self control, but rather separate incidents spread apart over hours. Ballard also said that there were steroids in the home, but couldn’t say what quantity.

Frantz asked about needle marks in Benoit’s son’s arm, and Ballard confirmed that there were “older” needle marks in the boys arm and he may have been injected with the steroids. Ballard also said he believes Benoit had a prescription for the steroids and thus had them legally.

Frantz asked if Ballard had ever seen anything like this where a situation of this type was stretched over a period of days and Ballard said he had not. They discussed Benoit staying in the house over those days with the bodies and Ballard indicated they are investigating Benoit’s comings and goings from the house over that time period.

Frantz questioned if the text messages Benoit apparently sent including one that suggested Nancy and Daniel had food poisoning were a way to set up an alibi. Ballard disagreed – saying he was likely simply explaining why they might not be out for people to see. Ballard believes the later test messages were designed by Benoit to have someone find his body after the suicide. Frantz clarified his question – in that he was wondering if Benoit initially wasn’t planning to kill himself and was setting up that as an explanation for his wife and son’s deaths. Ballard said there are plenty of possibilities – but investigators believe the texts about food poisoning were sent after Nancy and Daniel were already dead.

Frantz asked about the toxicology reports and Ballard said they will show what substances were in their bodies so they can get a better idea if steroids or other drugs played a role here. Ballard also said he was not aware of any other abuse in the home.

Ballard was asked in general how the D.A.’s office handles a situation where there will be no prosecution. He says they are still investigating to make sure there is no other involved party at large. They don’t believe there is but need to make sure.

Frantz asked how the community is handling it and Ballard said pretty well. He noted that fans are crushed and in state of disbelief. He also said he wasn’t sure many people in the area knew who he was and said he had never heard of Benoit.

Frantz then questioned Ballard about the timeline of events and when WWE would have known about it as a murder-suicide, because Frantz has been critical of WWE for running a tribute show Monday night while their own website posted that investigators were checking this as a double-murder-suicide during the show.

Ballard indicated that the bodies were found Monday around 2:30pm and it wasn’t until Tuesday around 2pm that it was officially announced that it was a double-murder-suicide, so WWE may not have known Monday night that it was a double-murder-suicide with Benoit as the murderer. He noted that investigators were being very guarded about what info they let out until they had all the facts straight. He said there may have been significant details that WWE didn’t know about Monday night.

Frantz pressed and clarified what he saw on WWE .com during the RAW show about a double-murder-suicide – but noted that no one was saying at that point who the murderer was – and it could have been Nancy . Ballard noted that some info may have gotten out earlier – but there was a lot of confusion early and then misinformation as well. He said it is harsh to judge WWE for running a tribute in their grief for an incident they didn’t have all the details about.

Sounds like the DA has it about wrapped up, I wonder what details come out in the full autopsy or if Benoit went and left the house during the time period.
 
Frantz pressed and clarified what he saw on WWE .com during the RAW show about a double-murder-suicide – but noted that no one was saying at that point who the murderer was – and it could have been Nancy . Ballard noted that some info may have gotten out earlier – but there was a lot of confusion early and then misinformation as well. He said it is harsh to judge WWE for running a tribute in their grief for an incident they didn’t have all the details about.

Hopefully this puts all the Vince conspiracy stuff to bed.
 
Fatalah said:
Hannity talking about steroids and Benoit on his radio show. Don't know why I turned to it.

At least he is talking about it. I think things would be way worse if no one discussed this in the media. There are definitely issues at hand here that need some light brought to them. Hopefully some good comes out of this tragedy and some roided up wrestlers go off the juice becuase of it. It could save their lives.
 
Dr. Kitty Muffins said:
At least he is talking about it. I think things would be way worse if no one discussed this in the media. There are definitely issues at hand here that need some light brought to them. Hopefully some good comes out of this tragedy and some roided up wrestlers go off the juice becuase of it. It could save their lives.


I agree. I really hope Bill O'Reilly takes up this issue instead of talking about bears all the time. For me, I think pro-wrestling has lost its appeal because it's impossible to relate to the athletes when they look like Transformers. Look at UFC, it's tearing it up right now, and when I look at the athletes, they look like the 'average guy'.
 
I wonder after the news came out if Vince went up to the shopzone/merchandise guy and was asked about Benoit's stuff and he was just like: "Git .... Git ..... Git ..... Git."
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070627/ap_on_re_us/wrestler_dead
Wrestler and wife argued over child care

By GREG BLUESTEIN, Associated Press Writer 35 minutes ago

ATLANTA - In the days before pro wrestler Chris Benoit killed his wife and child and hanged himself, the couple argued over whether he should stay home more to take care of their mentally retarded 7-year-old son, an attorney for the wrestling league said Wednesday.

"I think it's fair to say that the subject of caring for that child was part of what made their relationship complicated and difficult, and it's something they were both constantly struggling with," said Jerry McDevitt, an attorney for World Wrestling Entertainment. "We do know it was a source of stress and consternation."

McDevitt said the wrestling organization learned from the couple's friends and relatives that the Benoits were struggling with where to send the boy to school since he had recently finished kindergarten.

He also said Benoit's wife didn't want him to quit wrestling, but she "wanted him to be at home more to care for the kid. She'd say she can't take care of him by herself when he was on the road."


The child suffered from a rare medical condition called Fragile X Syndrome, an inherited form of mental retardation often accompanied by autism, McDevitt said.

Over the past weekend, authorities said, Benoit strangled his wife, suffocated his son and placed a Bible next to their bodies before hanging himself with a weight-machine cable in the couple's suburban home. No motive was offered for the killings, which were discovered Monday.

Anabolic steroids were found in Benoit's home, leading officials to wonder whether the drugs played a role in the slayings. Some experts believe steroids cause paranoia, depression and violent outbursts known as "roid rage."

The WWE, based in Stamford, Conn., issued a news release Tuesday saying steroids "were not and could not be related to the cause of death" and that the findings indicate "deliberation, not rage." It also added that Benoit tested negative April 10, the last time he was tested for drugs.

Also Wednesday, Benoit's personal physician said the wrestler did not give any indication he was troubled when he met with the doctor hours before the start of the weekend.

Benoit had been under the care of Dr. Phil Astin, a longtime friend, for treatment of low testosterone levels. Astin said the condition likely originated from previous steroid use.

Astin prescribed testosterone for Benoit in the past but would not say what, if any, medications he prescribed the day of their meeting.

"He was in my office on Friday to stop by just to see my staff," Astin said. "He certainly didn't show any signs of any distress or rage or anything."

"I'm still very surprised and shocked, especially with his child Daniel involved," Astin said. "He worshipped his child."

District Attorney Scott Ballard said the autopsy indicated that there were no bruise marks on the child's neck, so authorities are now assuming he could have been killed using a choke hold. "It's a process of elimination," he said.

The Benoits' argument over their son was not the only friction in their marriage. Nancy Benoit had filed for a divorce in 2003, saying the couple's three-year marriage was irrevocably broken and alleging "cruel treatment." She later dropped the complaint.

Meanwhile, authorities in Georgia were investigating a link between Benoit and a Florida business that may have supplied him with steroids.

Prosecutors in upstate New York who have been investigating the company's drug sales said Benoit received deliveries from Signature Pharmacy and MedXLife.com, which sold steroids, human growth hormone and testosterone on the Internet.

Six people, including two of the pharmacy's owners, have pleaded guilty in the investigation, and 20 more have been arrested, including doctors and pharmacists.

"That's something that sounds like we ought to be investigating," Ballard told the AP on Wednesday.

A lawyer for MedXLife co-owner Dr. Gary Brandwein scoffed at allegations that his client's company sold steroids to Benoit.

"I've only read that in the paper. I have no direct information about that whatsoever," Terence Kindlon said Wednesday, adding that prosecutors in Albany County, N.Y., were trying to "distract everyone's attention from the fact that their case is disintegrating."

Brandwein, a 44-year-old osteopath from Boca Raton, Fla., has pleaded not guilty to six counts in New York state court related to the criminal sale of a controlled substance. He was accused of signing and sending prescriptions without ever seeing patients.

Telephone messages left for attorneys for Brian Schafler and Greg Trotta — two other co-owners of MedXLife — were not immediately returned Wednesday. The two men have pleaded guilty to felony third-degree diversion of prescription medications and prescriptions, admitting they helped get drugs in 2006 for customers in upstate New York who had no medical need for them.

McDevitt said the drugs found in Benoit's house were legitimately prescribed. "There's no question, none of these drugs are out there, none of these drugs came from Internet pharmacies," he said.

In addition to causing paranoia and explosive outbursts, steroids can also contribute to deep depression, according to experts.

"Just as you have the extreme high of when you're on steroids, you can get the opposite," said Dr. Todd Schlifstein, a clinical assistant professor at the New York University School of Medicine. "You can have a dramatic difference in mood swings. You can feel there's no hope, there's no future."
 
Hollywood_mIRC said:
I wonder after the news came out if Vince went up to the shopzone/merchandise guy and was asked about Benoit's stuff and he was just like: "Git .... Git ..... Git ..... Git."
But he blew up remember?
 
i cant believe the wwe had a tribute show for this piece of crap. wow his son was mentally retarded? somehow makes it even worse to me. here's hoping satan has him in a nice crippler crossface right now.
 
I don't follow/watch wrestling at all or play the games, but I had someone at work today (EB Games) ask me a serious question: Is it a probability that THQ is going to pull him out of Smackdown Vs Raw 2008? I didn't have a clue what to tell him, but my first guess was yes..
 
ImNotLikeThem said:
I don't follow/watch wrestling at all or play the games, but I had someone at work today (EB Games) ask me a serious question: Is it a probability that THQ is going to pull him out of Smackdown Vs Raw 2008? I didn't have a clue what to tell him, but my first guess was yes..
Yes. 100%.
 
BirdBomb said:
i cant believe the wwe had a tribute show for this piece of crap. wow his son was mentally retarded? somehow makes it even worse to me. here's hoping satan has him in a nice crippler crossface right now.
Do you pay attention to what's going on?
 
King Booker Speaks On Chris Benoit, The Tragedy, More Date Added: June 27, 2007
Story By: Richard Gray - WWE superstar King Booker sat down with KHOU out of Houston, Texas today to talk about the Benoit tragedy. Below are some of the highlights.

Booker said that he knew Benoit personally and as most people in the business that knew Benoit have said, commented that he had never seen a bad side of Benoit. He noted that he knew Benoit’s wife Nancy and all of his children. He characterized what has happened as completely "out of the norm and unexplainable."

Booker noted that he wrestled Benoit in 75-100 matches and just recently talked to him for about thirty minutes about the wrestling business. "We're all tired at certain points, we work a lot of hours, but I never saw this side of Chris. I've never seen Chris mad. I've never seen Chris angry. He was always the guy with a lot of positive energy, always pushing the guys."

He went on to tell a story of a student that came to his wrestling school in Houston, Texas to be trained. Booker said that the student arrived from Illinois, with “no way to go back” and had $800 in his pocket. He revealed that the student carried around a photo of Benoit and Eddie Guerrero with him, as he was inspired by them to pursue a career in professional wrestling. "That was just the type of person he was, always encouraging people. He didn't even know this guy, but that's the type of person he was." Booker commented.

When “roid rage” was brought up in the interview, Booker commented, "The media is going to put a spin on it, you know. We know that. WWE knows that. Did the guy last week who murders his wife and kid last week have any form of roid rage? He was a cop. This happens in any form of life. I feel like the human life is a delicate piece of equipment and everyone has their breaking point. We don't know what his breaking point was. You don't know what my point is, I don't know what your point is. We're all human. I just think it was a huge malfunction and whatever it was, we may never know. It's not for us to know. It's out of our hands and with God now."

Booker said that the wrestling industry is a huge family and he’s cried and wanted to pull his hair out over the tragedy. He revealed that he loved Chris and said that he is mad to see him "go out like this. I'm pissed at him in certain ways. I wish I could just hold him for a second, but it's out of our hands. I'll be there at the funeral and tell him goodbye and hopefully see him on the other side. Hopefully, I'll find out what happened one day."
http://www.khou.com/video/news-index.html?nvid=154648
 
ImNotLikeThem said:
I don't follow/watch wrestling at all or play the games, but I had someone at work today (EB Games) ask me a serious question: Is it a probability that THQ is going to pull him out of Smackdown Vs Raw 2008? I didn't have a clue what to tell him, but my first guess was yes..

Yeah there's no chance he's there. 0. In any game, ever again.
 
Aisenherz said:
He has!
Well, a lot of people thought he was a good guy. The fact is: He was an a**hole

Will you people stop being so ignorant? Something obviously made this guy lose his mind in a way that wasn't temporary. Something destroyed his mind. I can't believe you would condemn him for that; do you criticize Alzheimer's victims that can't remember the names/faces of their families or the fact that they even exist?

It's entirely possible for a person to go from being a great, upstanding citizen to a complete psycho. That doesn't mean that he didn't used to be a good person and that doesn't mean that he didn't die as a murderer. It is what it is.
 
Booker T talking about breaking point, got me thinking, maybe being traded to ECW snapped Benoit?

Just think about it for a second, he wrestled for decades, arguably the most skilled wrestler out of the entire roster in WWE.
He was the World Champion just two years ago after thinking he would never get that chance to be one.
After that, he didn't have a long reign as champ & quickly went back to being a mid-card despite being much more talented than the other guys.

Just then he was traded to WWE's 2nd hand promotion.
Off from RAW & Smackdown larger draws to the smaller more obscure show. Still outworking & outwrestling 99% of everyone & he just found out that he won't ever get a shot at that WWE Championship, never get the money & fame like he had that one time.

Him & his wife could have argued with that & that lead to a breaking point for him?

Just a wild guess, but who knows what caused it?
 
If a good person snaps one day and just does one evil act ....is he evil?

but seeing as i dont know if benoit was a ever really a good person i wont be able to watch any his matches again everything about him is tainted now.
 
WickedAngel said:
It's entirely possible for a person to go from being a great, upstanding citizen to a complete psycho. That doesn't mean that he didn't used to be a good person and that doesn't mean that he didn't die as a murderer.
was he a great person back in 2003 when his wife tried to leave him citing "cruel treatment"?

i'm sorry, but things like this are usually longstanding. it's doubtful he woke up overnight a 'psycho'. this guy was the classic scumbag who treats his wife like shit, and she was the classic wife who buys their bullshit about not doing it again and how they'll change. so many times the inevitable end tragically transpires.
 
WWE's latest article (my take on it anyway)

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http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/benoitpressures
Benoit’s son suffered from Fragile X Syndrome; speculation over whether pressure was too much
Written: June 27, 2007

WWE.com learned from an interview conducted Tuesday by Vancouver’s News1130 that Chris Benoit’s son Daniel possibly suffered from Fragile X Syndrome, a genetically passed-on condition that results in impairments ranging from physical and learning disabilities, to more severe cognitive or intellectual disabilities.

In the interview with News1130, Pam Winthrope, whose own 12-year-old son suffers from Fragile X Syndrome, recounted how she and her husband talked to Benoit about the condition five years ago.

“We talked to him because I was trying to set up a support group in B.C. and in Canada; we only have a couple of them,” she said. “My husband was struggling when we got diagnosed with our son, and Chris was struggling with his. They talked for a few minutes, and then he said he didn’t want to be a public face for Fragile X. He just wanted to keep it really, really quiet.”

A source close to Benoit recalls similar conversations with him, where he described his son’s condition as “a learning disability much like autism.” This source quotes Benoit as saying “Daniel wasn’t capable of interacting with other children and was afraid of other children. Daniel also had a hard time making eye contact with everyone, which was another symptom of his disability.” Benoit also claimed that his son was on medication for this condition.

Winthrope discussed the pressures facing parents of children diagnosed with Fragile X syndrome. During her interview with News1130, she stated that families can be torn apart by the disease because it's very difficult to find help and support. Winthrope added, "You as a parent have to go out there and find what's available and it's not easy -- they don't tell you."

A co-worker and long-time friend of the Benoits speculates that perhaps the pressures of home and Daniel’s illness had gotten to him, causing him to snap and take the lives of his wife and son before taking his own.

“Is it possible that after Chris killed Nancy (for whatever reason), he felt Daniel wouldn't be able to get the care and attention he required as a special needs child (if that is indeed true) with no mother and a father either in jail or dead? Did he then decide that the only way he could protect and take care of his son was to take him to the next world and go with him? In his warped and twisted state, did he think this was the only way to shield his son from a difficult life of pain and hardship? It doesn't condone or justify a damn thing, but it's the best reason I can think of. I'm trying to put together some semblance of logic for his actions, but it's an impossible task trying to explain this.”
 
"WWE.com has uncovered information that Chris Benoit’s son Daniel suffered from Fragile X Syndrome, leaving some to speculate if the pressure was too much for him to handle."

WWE's insistence on pretending to be an independent investigative journalism organization is way too bizarre and frankly quite disturbing.

What the hell is going on?
 
shpankey said:
was he a great person back in 2003 when his wife tried to leave him citing "cruel treatment"?

i'm sorry, but things like this are usually longstanding. it's doubtful he woke up overnight a 'psycho'. this guy was the classic scumbag who treats his wife like shit, and she was the classic wife who buys their bullshit about not doing it again and how they'll change. so many times the inevitable end tragically transpires.

Dude, I don't know the guy and neither do you.

I have known an abusive couple though. My sister and my brother and law, before they got divorced. I didn't know the Benoits, but I do know that things typically aren't as black and white as some of you are trying to make them out to be. Authorities almost always disregard the damage done to the man in domestic abuse cases.

All this is just talk though. I didn't know him; you didn't know him. The people that did know him, day in and day out, for years seem to have been under the impression that he was a really great guy. It would be quite a feat to fool that many people for that long.
 
The WWE, based in Stamford, Conn., issued a news release Tuesday saying steroids "were not and could not be related to the cause of death" and that the findings indicate "deliberation, not rage." It also added that Benoit tested negative April 10, the last time he was tested for drugs.

Didn't another article state that as long as it's prescribed, tests are simply labeled as "negative"?

Looks like the WWE just wants to cover their ass here.

If the friction for this whole incident was caused by Benoit's wife asking for him to stay at home more, he probably knew the WWE wouldn't allow for that and then put up a fight about it...then the WWE should really look at how flexible it is as a company that puts its workers in a crazy schedule that's incredibly taxing on the body and involves heavy use of pain-killers and steroids.
 
Damn, I've stayed away from saying anything because I didn't really know what to say, but finally talking to my Benoit-fan friend was crazy today. Our entire lives we've watched wrestling and he was a Benoit fan and I was a Jericho one so we had some great days but he is just really shocked by the whole thing.

It just seems like of all the people, Benoit would have been the last one to do something like this.

Most of all, I just wish it wasn't true. I just wish none of this had happened and we could go back to booing Cena and waiting for Benoits weekly match.
 
WickedAngel said:
Dude, I don't know the guy and neither do you.

I have known an abusive couple though. My sister and my brother and law, before they got divorced. I didn't know the Benoits, but I do know that things typically aren't as black and white as some of you are trying to make them out to be. Authorities almost always disregard the damage done to the man in domestic abuse cases.

All this is just talk though. I didn't know him; you didn't know him. The people that did know him, day in and day out, for years seem to have been under the impression that he was a really great guy. It would be quite a feat to fool that many people for that long.

Finally, some damn logic. Thank you, WickedAngel. Really.

Alot of people here are just labeling him as an asshole. Who the f**k are you guys to say that? Sure, what he did MAKES him an asshole. But that does not mean at all that he always been an asshole.

As for those of you that bring up the 2003 divorce and claims of domestic abuse, not even that makes him someone who has always been an asshole. That was a mere 4 years ago. 4 years ago the first reports of him being an asshole out of 40 YEARS OF LIFE. You guys need to chill out. If he really was that much of an asshole, he probably would've killed Nancy back in 2003 for even THINKING of a divorce and trying to take his son away.

Also, someone mentioned him being traded to ECW may have done it for him. While we can't say it absolutely wasn't that, I don't believe it was. True, ECW doesn't get the amount of popularity as RAW does, but IMO, he belonged there. He was a true wrestler, more than just an actor. RAW has become [and always has been for that matter, though not as bad] a freakin novela. Its why its called 'entertainment.' Whether he was in RAW or ECW, he still had to deal with writers and storylines. Maybe I'm wrong; maybe he wanted to be on RAW and have a big name so bad that the trade, combined with other things, got to him. Either way, we can't know, and you guys shouldn't be so quick to judge.

I've spoken my peace [or piece, w/e the hell it is lol]. Thanks again WickedAngel, and everyone else who has posted the same thing and then had to deal with about 40 people who didn't read and called him an asshole, scumbag, etc. And once again, I AM NOT CONDONING WHAT BENIOT DID. Just saying, wait til everything is laid out on the table.
 
Osorio said:
Finally, some damn logic. Thank you, WickedAngel. Really.

Alot of people here are just labeling him as an asshole. Who the f**k are you guys to say that? Sure, what he did MAKES him an asshole. But that does not mean at all that he always been an asshole.

As for those of you that bring up the 2003 divorce and claims of domestic abuse, not even that makes him someone who has always been an asshole. That was a mere 4 years ago. 4 years ago the first reports of him being an asshole out of 40 YEARS OF LIFE. You guys need to chill out. If he really was that much of an asshole, he probably would've killed Nancy back in 2003 for even THINKING of a divorce and trying to take his son away.

Also, someone mentioned him being traded to ECW may have done it for him. While we can't say it absolutely wasn't that, I don't believe it was. True, ECW doesn't get the amount of popularity as RAW does, but IMO, he belonged there. He was a true wrestler, more than just an actor. RAW has become [and always has been for that matter, though not as bad] a freakin novela. Its why its called 'entertainment.' Whether he was in RAW or ECW, he still had to deal with writers and storylines. Maybe I'm wrong; maybe he wanted to be on RAW and have a big name so bad that the trade, combined with other things, got to him. Either way, we can't know, and you guys shouldn't be so quick to judge.

I've spoken my peace [or piece, w/e the hell it is lol]. Thanks again WickedAngel, and everyone else who has posted the same thing and then had to deal with about 40 people who didn't read and called him an asshole, scumbag, etc. And once again, I AM NOT CONDONING WHAT BENIOT DID. Just saying, wait til everything is laid out on the table.
this whole supposedly 'logical' argument about Benoit not being an asshole could also probably be made for Adolf Hitler. Eva Braun and hundreds of his close associates loved him and thought he was a great guy too. i mean, if you met him and talked to him, i'm sure Hitler seemed great; well... cept for that whole genocide deal. *rollseyes*

the fact that Benoit committed a double murder and suicide makes him much far worse than just an asshole.
 
shpankey said:
this whole supposedly 'logical' argument about Benoit not being an asshole...

Where is this "logical argument"?

Read the posts, he thanked Angel for making logical comments. If you think they're illogical, then present your case. Stop it with the strawmen.
 
shpankey said:
this whole supposedly 'logical' argument about Benoit not being an asshole could also probably be made for Adolf Hitler. Eva Braun and hundreds of his close associates loved him and thought he was a great guy too. i mean, if you met him and talked to him, i'm sure Hitler seemed great; well... cept for that whole genocide deal. *rollseyes*

the fact that Benoit committed a double murder and suicide makes him much far worse than just an asshole.

Yes, he is far worse than an asshole. But what I'm saying is, some people on here are saying things as if they knew him. As if they had a daily interaction with him. What you say makes sense, Shpankey. But at the same time, we can't just go labeling a man as someone who has always been an asshole. According to sources who knew him for years on end, he was a good guy. His ****ing doctor said he WORSHIPPED his kid. Clearly something went wrong here, as he wasn't this scumbag that everybody makes him out to be his whole life. Something seriously wrong happened, and I don't think we can say he has always been a bad person without knowing all the details. Its speaking ignorantly. And I'm not saying you are speaking ignorantly, cause you didn't jump on that bandwagon. Just saying, wait for the facts.

Just an addition right now in an edit, i read what you said, Fight For Freedom. Thanks to you, too. People may not agree with my ideas, but I DID present a case. I see a few more people getting on my case soon, though. lol
 
Osorio said:
If he really was that much of an asshole, he probably would've killed Nancy back in 2003 for even THINKING of a divorce and trying to take his son away.

Yeah, he did the cool dude, non-asshole thing. He slapped her around, threatened her, and let her live. Damn good thing she backed off the divorce.

Remember kids, assholes kill the people who dare to take their children out of an abusive household. Anything short of that, and they are golden.
 
Osorio said:
Yes, he is far worse than an asshole. But what I'm saying is, some people on here are saying things as if they knew him. As if they had a daily interaction with him. What you say makes sense, Shpankey. But at the same time, we can't just go labeling a man as someone who has always been an asshole. According to sources who knew him for years on end, he was a good guy. His ****ing doctor said he WORSHIPPED his kid. Clearly something went wrong here, as he wasn't this scumbag that everybody makes him out to be his whole life. Something seriously wrong happened, and I don't think we can say he has always been a bad person without knowing all the details. Its speaking ignorantly. And I'm not saying you are speaking ignorantly, cause you didn't jump on that bandwagon. Just saying, wait for the facts.
i hear ya, and i may be too close to this issue to be unbiased, as i grew up in a home with a very abusive step-father. but i can say from firsthand experience, that 9 out of 10 people were fooled into thinking he [my step-father] was a great guy... they just didn't know him at home, alone, when nobody else was around. my point being, just b/c there are people out there who know him and are shocked, or even people giving testimonials about how great he was, doesn't mean he was. which is kind of where i was going with my previous post. i did not mean to straw man argue, if i did, my apologies.
 
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Yeah, he did the cool dude, non-asshole thing. He slapped her around, threatened her, and let her live. Damn good thing she backed off the divorce.

Remember kids, assholes kill the people who dare to take their children out of an abusive household. Anything short of that, and they are golden.

*SIGH* I won't even start, man. Go back and read the part where I said I don't condone. And when you find the part where I said that it was fine that he beat her, then let me know.
 
Osorio said:
*SIGH* I won't even start, man. Go back and read the part where I said I don't condone. And when you find the part where I said that it was fine that he beat her, then let me know.

Well, you said he wasn't that much of an asshole, since he didn't kill her. That means that beating your wife doesn't really make you an asshole. That is a misogynist opinion, period.

shpankey said:
i hear ya, and i may be too close to this issue to be unbiased, as i grew up in a home with a very abusive step-father. but i can say from firsthand experience, that 9 out of 10 people were fooled into thinking he [my step-father] was a great guy... they just didn't know him at home, alone, when nobody else was around. my point being, just b/c there are people out there who know him and are shocked, or even people giving testimonials about how great he was, doesn't mean he was. which is kind of where i was going with my previous post. i did not mean to straw man argue, if i did, my apologies.

I'm right there with you man. When I was 11 years old, my stepfather was a pillar of the community. He was a licensed, practicing psychotherapist, and also ran the juvenile detention facility for the county. You could find no shortage of people who would swear that he was the best dude you will ever meet. And they weren't lying, they were telling the truth based on the persona with which they were familiar.

Me, I was just the kid who got to watch him beat my mom black and blue every time he had a 'bad day'.
 
shpankey said:
i hear ya, and i may be too close to this issue, as i grew up in a home with a very abusive step-father. but i can say from firsthand experience, that 9 out of 10 people were fooled into thinking he [my step-father] was a great guy... they just didn't know him at home, alone, when nobody else was around. my point being, just b/c there are people out there who know him and are shocked, or even people giving testimonials about how great he was, doesn't mean he was. which is kind of where i was going with my previous post. i did not mean to straw man argue, if i did, my apologies.

Makes sense. Sorry if I forced out some bad memories. =X Had no intention to do so. And yeah, that was my original idea as well; most people don't know the real sides of abusive people. They see the nice guy and say "i never saw it coming." Its absolutely true. But I think we can hold some of the comments until his other kids or other wife say something about it.

We need more of this, though. Two opposing sides, but not slamming each other over it. Its better than "**** YOU, YOU'RE WRONG, OMG WHAT ARE YOU, STUPID!?"
 
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Well, you said he wasn't that much of an asshole, since he didn't kill her. That means that beating your wife doesn't really make you an asshole. That is a misogynist opinion, period.

I never said it makes him less of an asshole. I can't stand to hear that people beat their wives or their children, nor do I sit at home and hear a story of domestic abuse and say, "well at least he didn't kill them. THANK GOD." Enough man, I understand where you're coming from, too. And I'm sorry that you had to think of bad memories and shit cause of my ramblings. I really don't mean to make you think back to bad things like that.
 
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Yeah, he did the cool dude, non-asshole thing. He slapped her around, threatened her, and let her live. Damn good thing she backed off the divorce.

Remember kids, assholes kill the people who dare to take their children out of an abusive household. Anything short of that, and they are golden.


You never know, when it's a divorce it can get ugly. Either side will lie through their ass to save face.

Look at Stone Cold case, wasn't it proven Debra was a gold-digger & when he got let go, the whole fight started from her?
 
FTWer said:
You never know, when it's a divorce it can get ugly. Either side will lie through their ass to save face.

Look at Stone Cold case, wasn't it proven Debra was a gold-digger & when he got let go, the whole fight started from her?

This the closing statement to my "wait for the facts" argument. Just to clarify, I do believe Nancy may have been abused. I'm not saying she was lying. But look at what FTWer did; he presented his stuff after he had his facts. Take a lesson from him, beermonkey. And get off me already. I'm not here for you, I'm here to find out as much as I can about the Benoit situation.
 
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