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Cincinnati High School Paying Students To Come To School

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Ripclawe

Banned
sigh...

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/.../School-pays-kids-come-class?odyssey=nav|head

WALNUT HILLS — Dohn Community High School senior Arneqka Lester, 16, is especially excited about coming to school this week.

That’s because Friday is payday.

This charter school of 170 students embarks on a new experiment this week – it’s paying students to come to class.

Kids will get Visa gift cards – $25 for seniors, $10 for underclassmen – for showing up five days a week, being on time, not getting into trouble and being “productive,” said Principal Ramone Davenport. Productive means that they are working in class, it has nothing to do with grades or test scores.



As an added bonus, every time a student gets paid, an extra $5 will go into a savings account for them, payable upon graduation.

The incentive program is expected to cost about $40,000 this school year, funded through a mix of private donations and federal Workforce Investment Act dollars funneled through the school’s partner Easter Seals.

If Lester’s reaction is any indication, the program might work.

“I’m very excited to get the money,” said Lester. “It makes me want to come to school on time, not that I don’t. But some students don’t have the money and this will help them. It’s a good idea.”

The idea of paying students to come to class isn’t new. Several schools in the country have adopted incentive programs with varying degrees of success – and controversy.

Local programs such as Easter Seals offer student incentives on a case-by-case basis to students who qualify because they are poor or have had truancy problems. Some companies partner with local schools to offer incentives like cell phones or scholarships for good work.

But organizers said this is the first schoolwide, behavior-based incentive program to be launched in the Cincinnati area.


The goal is to reduce the number of dropouts, improve attendance and graduation rates, and keep students off the streets.

The idea was hatched by Superintendent Kenneth Furrier and Davenport, in partnership with Easter Seals’ director of youth services, Debbie Smith.

Davenport knows there will be critics. But they’re trying it anyway.

Why? Because it just might work, he said.

“People will say you’re rewarding kids for something they should already be doing anyway, Davenport said. “But they’re not doing it. We’ve tried everything else.”

Dohn focuses on dropouts. For many, it is a last-ditch effort to graduate. Eighty three percent of its kids are low income; almost all are minorities.

The school was in Academic Emergency last year, the worst category on the Ohio Report Card. Its attendance rate was about 84 percent, well below the state minimum of 93 percent. It’s graduation rate was only 14 percent last year.

Davenport said Dohn students often need extra motivation because of the pressures of their lives outside of school.

“Right now kids aren’t looking at grades as a reward. It wasn’t like when we were growing up,” said Davenport. “They have to stay home and work or watch their little brother or sister. They don’t come to school.”

Smith said this incentive might mean the difference between a graduate and a dropout.

“What usually happens when you’re working with at-risk kids, when they get to that last stretch it gets scary,” she said. “It looks too hard, too daunting. The greatest pull for them is the streets. They can make more money there.”

Dohn student Asia Cornett, 17, of Westwood, thinks the money will make a big difference for her and her classmates.

“I thought it was more of a motivation for kids to come to school. More like a job. Some don’t have any motivation now,” she said.


The school’s secondary goal is to differentiate itself from other dropout recovery schools in the area to increase enrollment and better serve students. It started a program this year requiring longer school days and physical fitness and nutrition programs.

The idea of paying kids to for attendance or grades is controversial.

Peter A. Spevak, director of the Center for Applied Motivation, a private consulting firm near Washington, D.C., called the idea “short sighted.”

“If someone wanted (to pay) me to jump in a vat of cake batter, I’d do it, but it’s false motivation of the moment.”

He said it also may foster a sense of entitlement.

“The premise is you get paid for things you’re supposed to do anyway,” he said. “In society you should do things because it’s fulfilling to do and the right thing to do. It undermines internal motivation which ultimately has to drive citizens in a good society.”

A 2010 Phi Delta Kappa/Gallup poll on public schools found that 3 out of 4 respondents opposed the idea of paying students money to read books, attend school or strive for better grades. Only 1 in 4 parents said they paid their children to do better in school.

While some may cringe at the idea of paying kids to go to school, the idea has worked in some cases across the country.

Harvard economist Roland Fryer Jr. began a large-scale experiment with incentives at several urban school districts in 2007. The results were mixed but generally found incentives work when kids paid for behaviors like attendance, but not when they’re for good grades.

It’s worked for the KIPP schools, a national chain of 109 charter schools, including one in Columbus. The schools saw significant academic gains at its middle schools where it’s offered (non-cash) behavioral incentives, for more than a decade, according to spokesman Steve Mancini.

Back in Cincinnati, Davenport said attendance and graduation are the main goals. But if kids are in school instead of on the streets, better grades might be a welcome side effect, too.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
There was another school that did this some years ago. IIRC, it was in a really bad area and the attendance was really low.

But yeah, it's pretty sad.
 
Didn't they do this in Freakonomics with the kids' grades?

But yeah, I remember driving past Dohn and thinking it was like a factory warehouse or something...
 

DGRE

Banned
Yeah I'm drawing a blank on it. Can't remember seeing it or hearing about it. Nasty 'Nati represent.
 
I'm all for innovation in education. Unleash stuff like this on lab schools, figure out what works and what doesn't. We use cash to motivate the kind of behavior we want all the time, so why not use it to motivate academic engagement?
 
If it works, great. It's a charter school - no skin off my nose.

That said, I don't think gift cards are really going to motivate kids who simply aren't interested in school. Most serial skippers/dropouts seem to lack the foresight required to appreciate the benefits of working now for a reward later, for obvious reasons.
 

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
I assume it will be more effective than paying them to wash the toilets.

Maybe one day they can do this with smartphones. You'll get a mid-level phone plus a reasonable plan once you maintain a certain level of attendance/GPA.

And you encourage parents not to buy the phones for their kids so that the kids will only have one real source for socializing and playing games. Holy shit this is actually a genius idea. Even the kids that have an after-school job would rather take advantage of this than pay out of pocket for a phone.
 
Seems like a decent idea to me. It's a decent amount of money for a 14-17 year old, presumably paid per quarter, meaning a senior can make a maximum of $100 and underclassmen can max out at $40. It's not an amount that's going to break the bank for any education budget, and the kids that this is likely targeting the most (the ones who think high school/college is too long to wait before earning money and thus begin peddling marijuana to make a few bucks) will have an alternative to doing that and, by the time they graduate high school, their perspective on the worth of an education may have changed.



Cynical answer:
The students are getting paid more than the teachers!
 

TheMan

Member
if there's one thing I learned in college, it's that if you're dependent on extrinsic motivation to perform academically, you will not do very well.

these burros are fucked.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
This is a really sad reflection on our society.

Can't really argue with success if it works, though. Hopefully the kids get an education and learn the right lessons from it.
 

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
if there's one thing I learned in college, it's that if you're dependent on extrinsic motivation to perform academically, you will not do very well.

these burros are fucked.
Not at the middle school or even high school level. Often the tiniest amount of effort will get you a decent grade in most classes. Hopefully getting them to stay in school will allow them to see the potential benefits.
 

Dhx

Member
I assume it will be more effective than paying them to wash the toilets.

Maybe one day they can do this with smartphones. You'll get a mid-level phone plus a reasonable plan once you maintain a certain level of attendance/GPA.

And you encourage parents not to buy the phones for their kids so that the kids will only have one real source for socializing and playing games. Holy shit this is actually a genius idea. Even the kids that have an after-school job would rather take advantage of this than pay out of pocket for a phone.
Honestly, if we could convince the majority of parents to buy in, a modified version of this would be pure genius.

Near perfect attendance, lack of tardiness, no major referrals, and a 3.0 GPA = shiny new android / iphone with paid contract.

Schools and districts could easily get great deals as carriers would line up to give amazing deals to schools for PR and the chance to get at kids early.
 

mxgt

Banned
They did something like this in the UK called EMA for 16-18 year olds.

It was somewhat successful.

eh it wasn't really the same. I only got EMA because I'm from a low income household. I would've gone to class regardless.
 

tokkun

Member
If you really think about it, this isn't that weird of an idea.

A lot of people, including Republicans, argue that instead of the welfare system being a handout, there should be compulsory training to ensure that the people are getting the job skills necessary to take them off the welfare lines.

This is more like a preemptive form of such a program: give low-income kids a chance to earn some money, but require them to get their education to receive it. I don't think that paying kids to go to school is suddenly going to make them want to go to college, but even just a high school diploma opens up a lot more opportunity for these kids to get a job rather than hustling on the street or collecting unemployment checks.

You can argue that there is a moral hazard here - that it teaches kids to expect handouts - but considering that this school was only graduating 1 in 7 students before, I don't see so much risk in giving this a try.
 
It's sad some of my peers have to get rewards for stuff their supposed to do.

You shouldn't be doing anything you don't get some kind of reward for, especially not stuff someone else told you you're 'supposed to do'. High school has a reward, it's just a little delayed. If it didn't, I would have been the first dude out of there.

Anyway, the government has spent this kind of money on way more pointless shit than this so...if it ups the gradation rate by a significant amount, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. We tell our kids that they need to work hard so they can make a shit ton of money one day. If that's why we work, and high school is a job, pay 'em.*

*Obviously if this doesn't have a tangible statistical effect it should be cut.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Seems like a decent idea to me. It's a decent amount of money for a 14-17 year old, presumably paid per quarter, meaning a senior can make a maximum of $100 and underclassmen can max out at $40. It's not an amount that's going to break the bank for any education budget, and the kids that this is likely targeting the most (the ones who think high school/college is too long to wait before earning money and thus begin peddling marijuana to make a few bucks) will have an alternative to doing that and, by the time they graduate high school, their perspective on the worth of an education may have changed.

If its only quarterly I really doubt its going to replace selling weed for anyone.
 

toxicgonzo

Taxes?! Isn't this the line for Metallica?
It's all fun and games 'til they go to college where they won't be paid to go to lecture and they'll fail miserably.
 

GavinGT

Banned
thumbs-up.jpg
 

xbhaskarx

Member
But yeah, it's pretty sad.

Is that your conclusion after having done some sort of cost-benefit analysis?

Incentives for behavior that we as a society want to encourage is never "sad"... it's not like they are getting free cars.

Honestly, not the worst way to spend $40,000.
It's probably not. The US spends plenty on public education, the money is not the problem, it's how it is used.

It's all fun and games 'til they go to college where they won't be paid to go to lecture and they'll fail miserably.

Given that they have a 14% graduation rate, just getting to college would be a huge achievement for most of these kids. What is better, kids dropping out of high school and saving $40k or kids graduating and maybe dropping out of college? And how do you know some of them who do well enough to get into college won't actually develop a work ethic?
 
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