cubicle47b
Member
I thought you were supposed to carry the logs on your shoulders during these exercises, not directly over your head.
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Coaches run a drill used by Navy Seals, High School Football player dies as a result
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
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dragonchild
Banned
I'm not a lumberjack* myself, but it runs in the family so the idea that carrying logs was something invented by and for Navy SEALs makes my eyes roll.
I can easily forgive the mistake but the larger issue is that you've got a serious disregard for reason here in favor of being swept up by the media narrative, which is why you made the mistake. I'm very clearly NOT disputing that it can be dangerous to carry a log, so I'm very much NOT in the "freak accident" camp, but you're too amped up with outrage to even tell that obvious difference. Have your own opinion but do your brain some respect -- use it, don't be the media's bitch. Something doesn't need to be associated with SEALs to be dangerous, and not everything -- or even anything -- SEALs do is superhuman. SEALs are elite but their mention in this story is downright superfluous. It's not like lumberjacking is any less dangerous, and arguably even more so because while the requirements are far more lax, timber execs care less if you die than the government does their elites. The issue is that, log or no log, this HS coach is a twit and very likely could've killed a player through dehydration or heatstroke.
*but I'm OK, I sleep all night and I work all day
excelsiorlef
Member
One of the drills calls for over the head lifting
RichiRamjag
Member
I personally enjoyed it when I played. Did you have a bad experience?
excelsiorlef
Member
Yeah you're I am pissed because a 16 year old kid is dead because of macho bullshit.
And like I'm sorry but I'm not being the media's bitch because I believe them when they say this drill comes from Navy Seal training.... because literally other schools brought in Navy Seals to teach the drill.
easterislandhead
Member
You do carry on your shoulders but to alternate shoulders as a team you lift together and then place down on the other shoulder together.
They could have said any team, but instead chose to say the big bad scary Navy seals to add more shock to the story. Basic army recruits, soccer/football/ rugby teams do this as well as youth sports/summer camps.
excelsiorlef
Member
That was not the drill. They were carrying overhead period.
http://abc7.com/news/high-school-football-player-dies-after-being-injured-at-practice/2293140/
easterislandhead
Member
dragonchild
Banned
Being pissed is your brain telling you something is wrong. This shouldn't have happened. That's a good thing. I'd be more worried if you were dead inside. But being angry is completely useless when it comes to sifting facts, which is what needs to be done once we've decided the anger is legit.
Consider this. Say we go with the Navy SEAL narrative and ban from HS athletics all activities related to SEAL training. Well, a lot of that -- like boat drops or underwater demolitions -- isn't done at all, and never will be, if only for lack of gear. But there are still plenty of things stupid HS ammosexual coaches can do that isn't explicitly part of SEAL training that can get kids killed anyway. HS athletes die of water intoxication, dehydration and heatstroke every year. So this feel-good solution of separating SEAL training from HS athletics will probably accomplish nothing at all. So what's the relevance of SEALs? None, except to raise hue and cry when apparently the media decided the very preventable death of a HS student wasn't outrageous enough for some goddamn reason.
On the flip side, you know why activities that are inherently dangerous -- like flying airplanes or, well, military training -- are statistically safe? Protocols and oversight. Carrying around a log CAN be safe, if done right, and you don't need SEALs to do it. Lumberjacking is still hella dangerous to this day mainly because timber execs DGAF about safety. The problem is the HS coach was entirely inadequate to oversee the development of HS athletes. Take away his precious log and he'd have done his damage some other way.
Use your heart to decide what to spend your energy on, but when it's time to think, use your head.
excelsiorlef
Member
That's not what's described there. It's described as a purely over the head drill.
cubicle47b
Member
I compressed and fractured 3 vertebrae during high school football and still enjoyed my overall experience. That said, between the CTE research and other dangers of the sport, I wouldn't let my kid play it (if I had one).
Side note: I had actually fractured two of the vertebrae before. In elementary school I jumped up and grabbed the arm of one of my friends while they were on the monkey bars and he fell down on top of me. Now I'm thinking of all the things I did that injured or almost killed myself as a kid.
Carrying a log overhead is probably one of the dumbest exercises a person could come up with. Put bowling balls on top of the log for maximum mobility gains while you're at it.
There's no way this is true lol.
There's no way this is true lol.
excelsiorlef
Member
The media mentioned the Seals because multiple people mentioned them. Including the president New York State Athletic Trainers Association. Other schools doing this brought in Seals to teach it.
It's not like they're inventing this association.
Ditto. And even if there were navy seals that weigh 135lbs they have done strength training for far longer than a kid. They are some of the most elite individuals in our military. Heck folks keep using college kids as counter examples. You know those college football players are some of the most gifted athletes in this country. High School football is open to just about everyone and cuts are not made until the end of camp.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
For real..
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
High School Football, killing, maiming, brain damaging our youth every year. Not to mention sucking funds away from actual education.
I hope more and more parents prevent their kids from playing and it dies out.
I hope more and more parents prevent their kids from playing and it dies out.
FloydtheFathead
Member
Yup. They could have just done tire laps where they hold a small tire over their head and have them run as a group. It's far less dangerous and dumb compared to this.
I didn't have to do anything this dumb in football.
I did this drill as a Marine a few times in my 20's. As one of the shorter guys, the log was almost always above my shoulder during the jog/shuffle. Which meant sometimes it would bang into my head. The taller guys carry it on their shoulders.
Several times during the runs we would lift the log up and over our heads to shift it to the other shoulder. That's when people can get hurt, especially if the terrain is uneven. I would never do this with a youth sports team of any kind. I was with some of the most fit people I've ever known as Marine.
Several times during the runs we would lift the log up and over our heads to shift it to the other shoulder. That's when people can get hurt, especially if the terrain is uneven. I would never do this with a youth sports team of any kind. I was with some of the most fit people I've ever known as Marine.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Yea. I enjoyed my time playing but we didn't carry logs over our heads.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
It will never die out as long as it remains a viable opportunity for kids to pull themselves out of poverty.
decisions
Member
This is totally not what we should take from this situation. Pushing through pain of many forms is often a great sign in life and is what leads to long-term success.
What happened here was simply dangerous and ignorant, you had a kid dealing with too much weight and he lost control of it and something horrible happened. You don't go to the gym and try lifting the highest amounts of weight in powerlift moves to try and harm yourself...You find the highest amount of weight you can safely lift and push through the pain, so that there is will involved but little to no danger.
CTE study is in its infancy and targeted football because its the most obvious target.
However, once its broadens its horizons and targets more sports its not going to be pretty.
For example, the sport that is most prone to concussions right now in high school sports is actually girls soccer.
However, once its broadens its horizons and targets more sports its not going to be pretty.
For example, the sport that is most prone to concussions right now in high school sports is actually girls soccer.
I don't think this coach(or coaches in this case) should be charged with negligence, I think they should be charged with man slaughter. I'm so tired of seeing stories where kids are forced to push themselves to absurd limits for a ball. Working out and conditioning is one thing but in so many sports there's an attitude of hyper masculinity that seizes upon any semblance of weakness as hurting the entire team, so individuals feel forced to do things they can't do it.
It's at the point where coaches should be either required to have a nursing or some health degree or have another person who is a qualified medical professional who can evaluate students health and say to a coach, that's enough, he's not doing anymore today.
And whoever is saying "direct your anger where it needs to be" needs to understand that this kid is dead. And kids die from overtraining and it shouldn't happen, period. The school's sports programs should be shut down until certain protocols are put into place.
A kid is dead and some are talking about log carrying can be safe, that's not the point here. Go to the article, look at the log and tell me that you should be carrying that over your head. If you drop that, you die or can get really hurt. It's essentially lifting a heavy weight without a spotter.
What a tragic loss of life, and the school is going to pay for what happened, period. It's insane. Kids should not be dying during practice.
It's at the point where coaches should be either required to have a nursing or some health degree or have another person who is a qualified medical professional who can evaluate students health and say to a coach, that's enough, he's not doing anymore today.
And whoever is saying "direct your anger where it needs to be" needs to understand that this kid is dead. And kids die from overtraining and it shouldn't happen, period. The school's sports programs should be shut down until certain protocols are put into place.
A kid is dead and some are talking about log carrying can be safe, that's not the point here. Go to the article, look at the log and tell me that you should be carrying that over your head. If you drop that, you die or can get really hurt. It's essentially lifting a heavy weight without a spotter.
What a tragic loss of life, and the school is going to pay for what happened, period. It's insane. Kids should not be dying during practice.
Or just don't fuck with logs in general.
"Best you can do...."
Lol get the fuck outta here with that, man.
Considering how popular college and professional football is, it's gonna be a tough road to eliminate it from high school
thehypocrite
Member
No. I never played the game.
Don't these football programs generate a lot of money and open up a lot of other activities? Like, I don't see how my school would have had a marching band or majorettes if it wasn't for football. They also built a new gym primarily for athletes to workout but it's also available for students.
thehypocrite
Member
Removing it from public schools should be the priority. A state funded brain damaging sport shouldn't be accepted.
Curious, should we remove girls soccer first?
Violence Jack
Member
Every season there seems to be some tragedy that could've been avoided during HS football summer training due to the desire to "toughen up" those young men. The worst we had it was during two-a-days practice in 90 degree heat, but thankfully it looks like coaches got the memo and started moving practice inside during the hottest times of the day. But shit like this is ridiculous. No way those kids should have been lifting logs over their heads, and you really don't need fucking Navy Seals training for HS football practice. There are tried and true training methods that have been used for devades, and this didn't have to happen. The coach should be locked up.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
These coaches should be held responsible for sure. Let's not take this to a "football is terrible!" level (unless we're having the CTE discussion, then you have a point). Most schools have coaches that are certified and know how much a high schooler should be doing for exercise.
Every coach I had back in school always taught us to pace ourselves, and never do anything too strenuous for our bodies. They also were trained properly and knew the right type of drills high school kids should be doing. Like sprints and stairs. Carrying logs? Nah.
Football shouldn't be forced to "die out." There needs to be more information presented to parents making the decision to let their kids play, and I'm also open to the idea of limiting tackle football to Varsity (11/12 grades) only, but you can't just kill the sport.
Every coach I had back in school always taught us to pace ourselves, and never do anything too strenuous for our bodies. They also were trained properly and knew the right type of drills high school kids should be doing. Like sprints and stairs. Carrying logs? Nah.
Football shouldn't be forced to "die out." There needs to be more information presented to parents making the decision to let their kids play, and I'm also open to the idea of limiting tackle football to Varsity (11/12 grades) only, but you can't just kill the sport.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Really dumb. For one, you can do team building without dangerous things like this. Just like you can team build without hazing. Glad to see at least other coaches in the area go on the record that this was dumb as shit.
Football isn't the military and especially at the HS level, there should not be "military" inspired activities outside of obvious basic conditioning that would be common anywhere.
All coaches involved should be fired immediately. Also should be charged with at least endangerment of a child.
Football isn't the military and especially at the HS level, there should not be "military" inspired activities outside of obvious basic conditioning that would be common anywhere.
All coaches involved should be fired immediately. Also should be charged with at least endangerment of a child.
RichiRamjag
Member
I enjoyed my overall experience as well. That's crazy about your veterbrae. My old man actually made me stop playing as I got taller and more into basketball. Said he saw too many cheap shots that took people out when he played. I was initially wondering if anything like that had happened on your end as I know football can be a bit more serious in some places. Hope you're doing alright now though.
Idk. Kids not learning proper tackling technique until varsity seems way more dangerous to me. Tackling incorrectly when kids are able to move at that speed and strength can be really dangerous.
KissDaRing
Banned
You act like grade 11 teens are some fragile kids. There are plenty of grade 11 teens that are flat out stronger then half the grown men out there regardless of size. And yes it was a freak accident and like most freak accidents it can be completely avoidable.
thehypocrite
Member
By all means. If the evidence shows that it is as destructive I don't care if it doesn't exist going forward. Regardless of how much I like to watch football and soccer it's not about what I like.
My uncle was an amazing running back when he was in high school in the 60s and got one of his knees destroyed from a cheap shot. Had to have a lot of work done on his knee almost his entire life. It's actually the reason I quit my team shortly after joining because they wanted me to play the same position. Not that I thought I would be good enough to be worth a cheap shot but who knows what will set someone off and you're pretty vulnerable out there if someone really wants to hurt you.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
God I hate football culture.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
134 lbs at that height and above would have no muscle mass. 134lbs is the healthy BMI of a 5ft 3in dude.
sixteen-bit
Member
Youth sports is kinda fucked up
dave is ok
aztek is ok
When I played football the coaches would bring us indoors to do drills that they weren't actually allowed to do - like standing one kid in the middle of a circle of other kids about 100 feet in diameter and yelling out a jersey number. The jersey number called runs at the kid in the middle and tries to hit him as hard as possible while he has to circle 180 degrees or whatever and try to not get knocked on his ass
Lamel
Banned
Nonsense.
cubicle47b
Member
I'm fine. I actually played the next season, but my back started hurting after games so I quit after that. It wasn't a cheap shot. I hit their kickoff returner really hard (he saw me coming at least 10 yards away). We both ended up in the same hospital. He wasn't wearing his mouth guard and bit off part of his tongue.
CTE is very serious. Tackle football should not be a thing for anyone period. If football doesn't adapt to that fact then it will end up like horse racing and boxing.
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