Roni
Member
So what's the game plan, here, exactly?
Because it's either people fall in line and start behaving the way your group wants them to or they're wrong?
Colin Moriarty is leaving Kinda Funny Games.
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So what's the game plan, here, exactly?
Because it's either people fall in line and start behaving the way your group wants them to or they're wrong?
harrisk954
Member
I hate this argument: "Comedian X said it so Internet Personality Y said nothing wrong."
It is all about CONTEXT: When was it said... How was it said... Who said it ... for what reason did they make the comment... etc., etc., etc.
Comedians make jokes all the time about race, sex, religion, etc. (See e.g., Howard Stern, Chris Rock, Amy Schumer, Sarah Silverman, Louis CK, Stephen Colbert, Kevin Hart, Bill Maher, SNL writers/staff, etc.. etc., etc.). They are considered to be "humorous" because the jokes generally make some sort of social commentary in addition to being funny. If not, those comedians usually get themselves into "hot water" as well (see, e.g. Howard Stern, Bill Maher, Amy Schumer, Michael Richards, etc.)
Just because someone says something, if it comes across as mean-spirited, not funny (yes, "funny" is in the eye of the beholder) or rude, it is going to not be taken well (see, e.g, Michael Richards, Pewdiepie, Colin Moriarty, etc.), it is going to not be received well. And, it matters who is making the comment and what their HISTORY of making other comment is.
It only gets worse when the offenders try to "explain" themselves and justify their comments. Then "defenders" try to downplay the issue and it only spirals out of control, making the situation worse for the person who made the comment, even if that original comment was innocuous.
So, yeah, Colin has brought some of the backlash on himself by not at least showing some understanding of why some people might have been offended by the Tweet. Not that he was wrong for making what he, I guess, thought was a joke or that he needed to throw himself on the ground, show "contrition" and beg for forgiveness, but then he acts completely immature (at least publicly -- who knows about privately with the KF guys) by immediately resigning from KF. He then makes fun of those who criticized the comment (including some of his "friends" from KF and IGN)... Seriously, if you are going to dish it out, be prepared to take it. He has a history of making either not funny or marginally funny "jokes". Yet, he is obviously thin-skinned like so many others who believe that their positions are superior to the opinions of those around them.
Pursuing diversity of opinion on various topics is obviously useful to present a well-rounded set of ideas related to those specific topics, and no one in particular is going to argue that point.
But the inescapable reality is that pursuing a diversity of personal experiences on fundamental things--like how it is to walk down the street or apply for a job or go on a flight or go to the bathroom, or even just to be able to pay for and afford games and systems in the first place--is incredibly useful in presenting ideas and perspectives you may not have even considered in the first place. Including, wrt gaming, both as a user and as a developer. Consider the effect of the travel ban, or who deciding who your enemies should be in an FPS, or the requirements of chat/messaging/friending/abuse protection, or how a game should address the character or their clothing options, or any number of things which some folks might immediately gloss over or not even think of but are imperative to huge swaths of people. This is just *part* of the problem with diversity being angrily dismissed as paying a tithe to the identity politics gods; it's at least enough of a legitimate point to not be immediately shat upon for daring to bring it up.
But the inescapable reality is that pursuing a diversity of personal experiences on fundamental things--like how it is to walk down the street or apply for a job or go on a flight or go to the bathroom, or even just to be able to pay for and afford games and systems in the first place--is incredibly useful in presenting ideas and perspectives you may not have even considered in the first place. Including, wrt gaming, both as a user and as a developer. Consider the effect of the travel ban, or who deciding who your enemies should be in an FPS, or the requirements of chat/messaging/friending/abuse protection, or how a game should address the character or their clothing options, or any number of things which some folks might immediately gloss over or not even think of but are imperative to huge swaths of people. This is just *part* of the problem with diversity being angrily dismissed as paying a tithe to the identity politics gods; it's at least enough of a legitimate point to not be immediately shat upon for daring to bring it up.
MrS
Banned
Can you really, in good conscience, say Moriarty's tweet, or actions, are comparable to those of Michael Richards and PewDiePie? I think that's a bit much, personally.
Woodchipper
Member
WTF?! I did not see that one coming. What the fuck am I supposed to do now, without the #1 PlayStation podcast? 
WrenchNinja
Member
Hydranockz
Member
Audioboxer
Member
LOL. I heard that. Legit offensive.
Goldenroad
Member
The Michael Richards thing was a one time off the cuff remark made in front of a live audience. Colin has a history of trying to be edgy and piss off groups of people, plus had a lot of time to sit and think of he should post this thing, or he could have edited it, taken it down or immediately apologized, at the very least. Yeah, Michael Richards did nothing anywhere near on the level of what Colin's been doing, and it still follows him to this day...not saying that it shouldn't, but Colin's remarks were definitely worse because they were deliberate and pre-meditated. I don't follow PDP, but I'm guessing he's probably not as bad as Colin either.
recklesscognition
Member
Oops, put that in the wrong thread. Interested to see where KF heads from here, hopefully to a RT type operation.
harrisk954
Member
Actually, I am not drawing any direct comparisons or equivalencies to what was said... only that something was said that (right or wrong) offended people...
Look, Michael Richards was way over the line and not funny in the slightest. Pewdiepie was over the line and not funny, even though he says he was trying to make some sort of social commentary after the fact.
Colin's comment was (to me), completely innocuous. Not funny, but not so offensive as to cause all of the backlash... the problem with people like Colin who think that they have cornered the market on being "right" and that their positions are so much better than those around them -- you know "the-smartest-guy-in-the-room syndrome -- that when they called out for something, even a minor thing, they fight back and pout and tantrum and complain about how they are being victimized. Poor them. It seems (to me) to be a major problem with republicans, Trump and his supporters... people like Colin (yes, I know he has been critical of Trump)... Colin's subsequent Tweets and him quitting KF and leaving the guys there (his friends) in a lurch, just shows what kind of guy he is, I guess. He couldn't take the heat from this nonsense and he thinks he is going to be a conservative political commentator?? Seriously?
Inferno313
Banned
That's an intentionally ironic bit that is actually a quite succinct summation of white privilege for the uninformed, what on earth are you actually trying to argue?
Mrstriker09
Member
Joe Rogan is the man!! Love what he said. I hope colin is on it one day.
emilioasis
Member
I just watched part of the newest video where they're talking Nindies. So disconnected... like he literally has zero effs to give.
that´s probably because they are talking about Nintendo
Dirtyshubb
Member
Well I mean long term it's better education, with a greater focus on the historical discrimination that groups suffered with and on how even small negative stereotypes can perpetuate negativity towards certain groups.
Short term, I honestly think doing what (actually) happened to Colin is what needs to happen more.
Call out examples of major and minor sexism, racism and other prejudiced comments or ill informed opinions. Not attack but say that it isn't cool to say stuff like that or what the truth is and if need be why. Try to be civil but if it becomes clear that no logic or explanation will work, and they become hostile dont give them a platform to speak publicly about it because as we have seen in recent years especially that it just allows it to continue to grow and hurt innocent people.
Dangansona
Member
Man now he's on Twitter doing the whole PDP "the media is dead long live YouTube" routine.
Roni
Member
Honestly, you should just focus on the long term. Less resistance that way... You keep trying to shame people on that short term strategy and things might explode on your faces, just like November did.
This deserves to be on every page so people just coming in can see it.
Audioboxer
Member
???
Was it a "translation" gone wrong earlier when everyone was saying Colin was going to be on Rogan?
MrS
Banned
This guy can't be serious, right?
excelsiorlef
Member
Of course...
It's funnier coming from a former employee of a media company but YouTubers, especially in gaming, seem to want all the glory of fame without any if the accountability.
They want to have millions of viewers but still claim to be just a nobody on YouTube being unfairly talked about when they get criticized in the media.
H.Cornerstone
Member
I am still trying to figure out how people calling him an asshole or saying "Colin you're better than this" is SJW outrage.
excelsiorlef
Member
Let's see a no context added post of a video from the always on the level ReviewTechUSA that uses one of the well known "Triggered feminist" image as a thumbnail, calls everyone against Colin SJWs in the title....
People need a narrative.
You call something "SJW" and you immediately get people on your side.
I love how he keeps calling him "colon"
FlutterPuffs
Member
Lime's posts are fucking fire. Mad props.
Goldenroad
Member
Michael Richards was out there in front of the media the very next day apologizing for his words and has never stopped apologizing, and like I say, will probably never have a good paying job again in his field as a result. It's been over a week and Colin still won't admit that there is anything wrong with what he's said. That's the difference between someone who did something wrong and owned up to it versus a person who has no regard for how their words might effect other people.
If you want to debate than debate, but don't just act like you've got the high ground here defending Colin.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Please list some examples. The poster you quoted and accused of providing an incomplete picture of the facts gave specific examples that can be sourced. Where are your examples? It's only fair.
TenCentCoast
Banned
Because when I think level-headed, unbiased, and not a fucking loser, I think ReviewTechUSA.
meanspartan
Member
I already addressed this point above and provided a couple examples to show he probably* is not a sexist, which that poster just wrote off anyway-
"wow what a progressive in support of women's rights. That totally neglects making a sexist joke on Women's Day in misogynist gaming culture, calling those hurt humorless sacks of shit, lecturing a LGBTQ developer for standing up against homophobic Trump voters, making fun of a BLM protester, acting offended and victimized when asked for more diversity on his show, caping for a homophobic presidential candidate (Romney), calling transpeople special snowflakes for not wanting to be terrorrized, etc.
It's cool that he managed to tweet something about a female protagonist and a female presidential candidate, but that's like the bare minimum effort and relatively insignificant in contrast to the harmful actions he does."
Clearly no matter how many examples I had come up with, it was not going to be accepted, as the poster could have fired off that same reply, the first paragraph anyway, against 100 counterexamples.
I'm not going to go back and listen to hundreds of hours of podcasts to find further examples over an internet discussion. You can believe me, or you can assume I'm full of shit and making it up. I understand the latter choice, as I am just some random person online, but for what little it is worth, I am not lying.
*I say probably because like (I assume) all of you I, I don't actually know the guy. But from being a fan of Beyond since 2011, to KF in 2015 and on, and thus listening to hundreds of hours of Colin talking on podcasts, I have no reason to conclude he is some raging horrible sexist. I DO get quite angry listening to him sometimes when he is aggressively wrong, and he also has a victim complex. He isn't perfect. My original post in this thread for today that generated all this back and forth didn't claim he was. I just got dismayed seeing all the unfair shit being flung at him here. An anti-Trump libertarian is being attacked as if he is Alex Jones or some shit.
If stand-up guys like Greg Miller, Jared Petty, Neil Druckmann, and many others consider Colin a friend, to some extent that is evidence of his good character.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I love how SJW "ruined" woman's day. lol
I watched a whole minute of this filth, and it was 1 minute too much.
Gentleman Jack
Member
FinaruDensetsu
Member
I looked up there and the only example I saw you give is that he said he voted for Johnson. I've listened to Greg and Colin since the very beginning I don't remember him doing anything of substance on even attempting to equally condemn the other side.
As a minority myself he's put out there to his many followers that we are:
1) wrong to condemn the actions of the people who want us dead or gone
2) wrong to not want to accept the financial support of those same people for our products.
3) and that we're wrong to be angry and need to grow a thicker skin in reaching out to the other side and turning the other cheek.
Please tell me when you've heard him levy anything of the sort to the instigator that he brings to bear against the victim.
But I guess it's all fine because he voted for Johnson. Well thank goodness he had a third choice and that it wasn't just between Trump or Clinton huh?
The point he's trying to make is that Richards' jokes, as offensive as they were, were a genuine attempt at humour and one that he immediately and sincerely apologised for, whereas Colin's "jokes" are completely insincere and are used as a smokescreen to belittle people, something he refuses to apologise for or even admit to. Intent matters.
He's going to retake media, one outdated and out of touch joke at a time!
A lot of people who I'm sure folks would generally considered "good" people are still good friends with Mel Gibson and Roman Polanski. An asshole having stand up friends says more about the friends than it does the asshole.
LordofAllThatIsEvil
Member
Colin's problem (and a lot of others) is they can dish it out but can't take return fire.
They don't understand freedom of speech goes for everyone and it doesn't protect you from backlash and blowback.
Colin's a Libertarian who just got smacked in the cock by the invisible hand of the market.
I am sure he will be doing gaming segments with Anthony Cumia before the month is out.
They don't understand freedom of speech goes for everyone and it doesn't protect you from backlash and blowback.
Colin's a Libertarian who just got smacked in the cock by the invisible hand of the market.
I am sure he will be doing gaming segments with Anthony Cumia before the month is out.
meanspartan
Member
Huh? I cited two examples, and neither was his vote for Johnson. I mentioned his extensive praise of Aloy as a strong female character, and his praise of Hillary Clinton winning the nomination as a huge moment for women in America.
meanspartan
Member
I absolutely agree with this for sure.
So he liked a fictional character and made an objective comment about a politician.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
I stand corrected I do see that post of yours now. I don't really see those two as any kind of endorsement or action at all though. I mean even in your post you admitted he prefaced it with the fact that he disliked Hillary. The two things he said were little more than statements of obvious fact.
My dog knows that the first woman ever to win the nomination to be a major party's candidate was a major event for women.
You're an attorney so you understand preponderance of the evidence. The two examples you've provided against the post you challenged don't even come close. They're just barely enough for a prima facie case.
Alright. Saying people who are mad at Colin's joke are promoting censorship actually kinda blows my mind now. Freedom of speech goes both ways. Unless people are truly attempting to get Colin to shut up by setting his computer on fire or something, I don't see how it's the case at all. If I see someone reacting to the tweet by saying he's a heartless piece of shit sexist who should die for his sins, I'll think that person is overreacting, but it's their right to speak their mind. I see a lot of people are mad at Colin for making the joke with the likely intent to piss people off. Intending to piss people off is, in itself, pretty shitty. Should these people not express their displeasure? It's Colin's right to quit KF and it's also his right to not apologize for the joke. It's also people's right to actually be offended by the joke. When he says things like "nobody was offended by the joke, and they just wanted to attack me", I can also respond with "Colin didn't intend to make a joke, he intended to piss people off to prove a point". This is just a situation of both sides having trouble communicating with each other, and choosing to be overly aggressive about it.
Or maybe Colin's intent was pure and was only for it to be a joke. And maybe some people, because of their own experiences, didn't laugh at the joke and thought it was tasteless. Can't we fucking accept that? Do we need to say "nobody was offended by the joke, they're just SJWs who are trying to destroy people's careers" and "Colin is an alt-right sexist pig" and pretend everyone feels one of those two ways?
I just can't believe how shitty this all turned out to be, and certainly can't believe it led to this friendship and partnership of 10 years to be soured. I could be wrong on this, maybe they are still the greatest friends and Colin left for completely unrelated reasons, but I do believe there's some bad blood, and I come out on Greg's side. I initially defended Colin because I really did believe it was just a dumb, unfunny joke (I'm not offended by the joke itself in any way, but I don't think it's funny at all). I'm just rubbed the wrong way about the fact that he goes on to say that "NOBODY was offended by that joke. Nobody." It really makes me think his intent was not so pure at all.
Or maybe Colin's intent was pure and was only for it to be a joke. And maybe some people, because of their own experiences, didn't laugh at the joke and thought it was tasteless. Can't we fucking accept that? Do we need to say "nobody was offended by the joke, they're just SJWs who are trying to destroy people's careers" and "Colin is an alt-right sexist pig" and pretend everyone feels one of those two ways?
I just can't believe how shitty this all turned out to be, and certainly can't believe it led to this friendship and partnership of 10 years to be soured. I could be wrong on this, maybe they are still the greatest friends and Colin left for completely unrelated reasons, but I do believe there's some bad blood, and I come out on Greg's side. I initially defended Colin because I really did believe it was just a dumb, unfunny joke (I'm not offended by the joke itself in any way, but I don't think it's funny at all). I'm just rubbed the wrong way about the fact that he goes on to say that "NOBODY was offended by that joke. Nobody." It really makes me think his intent was not so pure at all.
https://twitter.com/notaxation/status/842155944347807744
Watching the Regressive Left morph into the Christian Right has been nothing short of breathtaking.
Keep going. You're definitely winning.
Gotta love when challenged they double down.
Watching the Regressive Left morph into the Christian Right has been nothing short of breathtaking.
Keep going. You're definitely winning.
Gotta love when challenged they double down.
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