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Colombia votes "No" on Peace Deal with FARC
- Thread starter NYCmetsfan
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Don't be short sighted, people here voted no to the agreements, not to peace. The current agreement was the easiest, shorter path to peace, the best path for everyone involved? we will never know. Things are simple, current president just has to bring the opposition (the No promoters) to the negotiations team, when, if this happens, FARC will have to demonstrate if their will for the nations peace was true by renegotiating whatever colombians thought was not fair in the current agreement.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
The news are saying that voting participation was worse off due to hurricane Matthew. It affected the departments that went for Yes.
EDIT: Oh No voters. Please tell me why I should have voted No. Because I haven't heard a good argument so far.
EDIT: Oh No voters. Please tell me why I should have voted No. Because I haven't heard a good argument so far.
It's still democracy tho you just didn't get what you wanted lol. Now suck it up so I can conveniently shift my guilt and insecurity onto the side that lost.
(Sarcasm, though would you really be surprised if it weren't?)
Didn't the president say he will go to war if the treaty is downvoted?
This makes a lot of sense now.
Bummer, I hope Colombia can find peace soon.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
The deal calls for the immediate stop of the ceasefire if No wins. He could do so, but he'll just go down in history as a warmonger. I don't think he will.
like which points? Let me say this clearly a peace treaty is never ideal for both sides, it always call for compromise or else will fail.
There's a lot more depth to this than just a yes or no to end war with FARC and it's hard to understand if you are on the outside. It's hard for a lot of people to accept after the terrorism attacks, abductions, killings and bullshit spewed by this group to simply accept they will get more money than a legitimate citizen working minimum wage per capita, that they will get a voice as a political party, that no one will face criminal charges... and many more things. It's basically a treaty with all pros towards FARC showing terrorism pays.
Also, a lot of the reasons why you say a lot of yes on the outskirts of the country comes down to fraud. You go to the coast where they barely have potable water and most of the time no electricity and offer them all sorts of props and shit to get them to vote for your cause and you will get what you want from them without having to force their hand at the polls. There's much less regular law enforcement presence outside of main cities like Cali, Bogota, Medellin and others smaller ones.
Also, a lot of the reasons why you say a lot of yes on the outskirts of the country comes down to fraud. You go to the coast where they barely have potable water and most of the time no electricity and offer them all sorts of props and shit to get them to vote for your cause and you will get what you want from them without having to force their hand at the polls. There's much less regular law enforcement presence outside of main cities like Cali, Bogota, Medellin and others smaller ones.
This is the end, man. The Mayans were off by 4 years.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Cease fire will continue, according to the President.
He will convoke No representatives to open dialogues and determine the path to follow.
He will convoke No representatives to open dialogues and determine the path to follow.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
2016 making a pretty shit case for Democracy
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Negotiators from the government will travel to La Habana tomorrow.
No, chances are they don't even have ID to vote.
No, chances are they don't even have ID to vote.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I am so done with democracy.
Admiral Woofington
Member
the issue wasn't that people didn't want the war to end, so much as pettiness over what the agreement entailed.
right
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think it's fair to say that we shouldn't financially support the demobilized guerrillas, or else they would just go down to the path of crime again since they don't have money to live.
Political representation was the whole freaking point of the deal. Which ultimately only gave them 3.5% in the legislative branch, the executive and judicial branch would not have been touched.
Former members would have faced a tribunal for peace, many would not have paid jail, instead contributing directly with social work. Do we really would have wanted them to go to a jail system in which crime reincidence is fucking huge? That would just have perpetuated the conflict.
Sure, the deal promised infrastructure and social development, because those areas are precisely affected because of that.
Not to mention mothers, fathers and brothers who wanted their families to return. People who didn't know any better.
Would love to hear more about the cons about the deal.
Frozenprince
Banned
Wgy the fuck would you vote NO on something that would end a fucking war? The blood of people that will die in the interim until the next attempt if there even is one is on these voters hands.
Madrugador
Member
Why are people here so surprised?
I'm pretty sure everyone in Colombia wants peace, they are not idiots. But it all depends on what you have to give in return.
Impunity can be really bad for a country in the short, mid and even long run, because it means a lot of people (and families) will never get the justice they deserve.
It's pretty easy to judge from the outside but when you have a familiar or a friend that was kidnapped, raped, tortured or killed, you need justice to be at peace and to heal a country from its wounds.
I'm pretty sure everyone in Colombia wants peace, they are not idiots. But it all depends on what you have to give in return.
Impunity can be really bad for a country in the short, mid and even long run, because it means a lot of people (and families) will never get the justice they deserve.
It's pretty easy to judge from the outside but when you have a familiar or a friend that was kidnapped, raped, tortured or killed, you need justice to be at peace and to heal a country from its wounds.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
You say this, yet the areas that were most affected by conflict voted Yes. Families were happy with the truth and knowing no one else would have to suffer.
Clearly 5 more decades of civil war is preferable to allowing former guerrillas a few seats in the national parliament. :rolleyes
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
FARC leader says they maintain their disposition toward peace. "To the Colombian people who count on peace, you can count on us".
MrChocolate
Member
Democracy is a mean to reflect the general population opinion. That is. Do you know why Brexit won? Do you know why Trump is about to win? Do you understand why "NO" won in this referendum?
70% of colombian voters didn't go to vote because... they didn't care enough.
And the remaining 30% went to vote because they feel either that:
- War had to stop and way too much blood was spilled.
or
- FARC didn't deserve a big fat pardon, and they should pay for their crimes.
This wasn't about a political decision, this was the voice of people that didn't think FARC deserved to be pardoned so easily.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
No, Democracy clearly works. Whether it's working as intended or if this is its natural conclusion...well, who knows.
Madrugador
Member
I say this as someone who's grandfather was tortured during Pinochet's dictatorship in Chile
We (Chile) have issues that have never been solved in favor of peace. But even 26 years after the dictatorship ended, we are in a lot of ways still divided and hurt by what happend and how we "solved" it.
I'm not saying Colombia took the right decision, but I can understand that some people prefer to find other ways to overcome this situation.
I was under the impression the polls were favoring Yes. Just like Brexit, I guess. But I didn't hear it was going to be a close race, while Brexit we did know it was a flip coin.
Frozenprince
Banned
A vote of the people with a difference of less than 1/4 of a percentage point.
Netherscourge
Banned
The Human race is the problem though.
TheRealTalker
Banned
well I guess this year was very interesting for political historians at least
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I'm sorry, but there were disinformation campaigns in this cycle. There were leaders flat out saying lies like the deals supported genre ideology (saying it would be taught in schools), which was a flat out lie. Another lie was that 7% of the pension for old people would be used towards the post-conflict through a law. The law was never up for debate and was never written. If that doesn't indicate a population that did not read, and thus is not smart as I said, then fine, that's your opinion.
Participation was worse due to Hurricane Matthew, which struck areas that voted for Yes the most.
I will just quote this from the other thread:
And that was enough for the areas that were most affected due the conflict.
Humans being vindictive isn't smart, BTW.
I say this as someone who's grandfather was tortured during Pinochet's dictatorship in Chile
We (Chile) have issues that have never been solved in favor of peace. But even 26 years after the dictatorship ended, we are in a lot of ways still divided and hurt by what happend and how we "solved" it.
I'm not saying Colombia took the right decision, but I can understand that some people prefer to find other ways to overcome this situation.
That's fine, I can understand that.
Admiral Woofington
Member
voting is just a general pain in the ass for many. If online voting was an option you can bet your ass turn-out/votes would be much higher.
I can't tell you how YOU should have voted, it was your duty as a colombian citizen to analyze the agreement and decide if you agreed or not with it. I didn't agreed with it, so i voted no.
Of course, on these kind of agreements every side always has to concede, otherwise it will be impossible to reach any kind of agreement. In my opinion, the level of impunity would be too big, and i simply couldn't cope with it, among other things.
No, i think this result will open the way for a better agreement, as has been shown by the reactions to the results from the president and the FARC.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I'm not asking you how I should've voted, I'm asking you to show your arguments for No. This is a discussion board after all.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Oh we will have wars for martian resources, have no doubt about it.
You have NO way of knowing that. The Greek Cypriots voted to reject a reunification agreement with the northern Turkish Cypriots some years back stating they could get a better deal and the island remains divided to this day. OTOH the people of Northern Ireland chose to support their own peace process that envisioned former paramilitaries (many of whom had committed terrible atrocities) entering politics on the condition they gave up their guns. Today NI is a peaceful place, free of the terrorist violence that plagued in for decades. Many of those former gunmen are sitting in the regional parliament and making laws.
This was probably the best chance for peace in a generation and approximately one half of those who voted chose the route of continued war. Not smart.
Corronchilejano
Member
We had a good run. Progressive thinking is taking a hit.
Now Trump wins in November 8. Its all that's missing.
Now Trump wins in November 8. Its all that's missing.
DragonSworne
Banned
This is why the American system of a republic is the best system yet.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
People forget peace is a process rather than a result. That was the reflection in today's elections.
The final piece to the regressive political agenda trifecta. Let's go out in a blaze of glory, fellow humans.
Please don't vote Trump, America.
lalugubregondola
Member
Sadly this decision was mostly political, almost nobody in the opposition cared for the victims or the impunity, they just repeat what the were told. The goverment tried to make the deal without them and they won. Colombia is heavily polarized, and now the opposition makes the calls. If this deal gets reworked with Uribe's party (hopefully), you'll probably wont hear any complains about impunity or political representation. The victims will get forgotten sadly.
It sure look like it with a Fascist lunatic having half the vote for president.
I can't even, I'm in shock.
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