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COMICS!!! |OT| July 2017 | Princess, I've Seen the Way You Look At Me.

A

AbundantChoice

Member
GAMEPROFF said:
There is no X-Men movie with the involvement of the Phoenix force right now now coming up as far as I am aware - I think New Mutants doesnt star Jean, but I dont follow these ones as cloesly as other.
Click to expand...

The next X-Men movie is directly a Phoenix movie. They're basically doing "The Last Stand" over again using the Dark Phoenix Saga as the original seed of the story.. It's Jean becoming Dark Phoenix as the central plot point.
 
D

Donniewahlberg

Banned
whatsinaname said:
Damn, The Spire was brilliant. Spurrier and Stokely work so well together. Amazing world building and an intricate story told in just 8 issues. With no unpronounceable names required to big up the world or make it overly complicated with character bios for a hundred different races. So many memorable characters that you are able to get a sense of after just a few lines of dialogue. The plot was really well paced too. None of the foreshadowing/hints hit you in the face and no unfired Chekov's Guns either. I also loved what they did with the lettering with dialogue that was said under the breath/unsaid. Makes for much crisper reading.

Also, Pug. <3



The team is 2/2 for me. Can't wait for their next book.
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Pug:
:( best cop
. Totally agree word for word with your write-up, it's the best comic I read this year honestly, despite reading some really good stuff. The pacing especially, up until the final pages they are still dropping bombs and shaking up your whole perspective on the book as everything else is paying off and it's a beautiful thing.
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
Finished Sinestro Vol. 2. Had to skip half the volume because it was part of a bigger crossover that I don't have, so that is unfortunate. The last half was good, though. Shame this series didn't extend into Rebirth, though maybe Bunn is exclusive to Marvel right now.

Starting this book now. Was going to wait until I get both volumes, but oh well.

9LrRug.jpg
 
G

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Now we know why Hickman doesnt write comics anymore. He just does everything else.

AbundantChoice said:
The next X-Men movie is directly a Phoenix movie. They're basically doing "The Last Stand" over again using the Dark Phoenix Saga as the original seed of the story.. It's Jean becoming Dark Phoenix as the central plot point.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, I see. Like I said, I dont follow these as close and so I forgot :D
 
E

ElNarez

Banned
The piece of fiction about Marvel Editorial that's been posted to /co/ is really compelling but I can't help but feel it's total bullshit. Is it worth copying over here for discussion or are we all in agreement that it's not worth the time to discuss what's probably made up?
 
L

LordOfLore

Banned
LaunchpadMcQ said:
I enjoyed it, as well!



But there's only one issue left :(
Click to expand...
How long was the wait between issues?

ElNarez said:
The piece of fiction about Marvel Editorial that's been posted to /co/ is really compelling but I can't help but feel it's total bullshit. Is it worth copying over here for discussion or are we all in agreement that it's not worth the time to discuss what's probably made up?
Click to expand...
Post it. Just reread the piece on Marvel discussing who to kill off in CWII.
 
E

ElNarez

Banned
Okay, here's the piece, posted by a /co/ user calling themselves "TheWhisperer". There's also additional material where he answers questions, but the post is long enough as is.

Editorial is miserable. Understaffed, under experienced and overworked. The direction at the top corporate level is a mess of politics and in-fighting. They all look the fool to Disney because of Feige’s split and the bad PR & constant gaming of their declining sales is wearing on them. Top brass want to make a hard left back to what worked with Steve, Thor, Tony, Banner and other recognizable faces. Editorial knows how bad it’s going to look to push all their diversity celebrations to the side. Reality is those books didn’t sell. A lot of it had to do with Marvel’s chincy practices finally reaching a breaking point with fans but the internal editorial spin is that comic shop fans aren’t ready to embrace change.

The terrible reaction to Hydra Cap/Secret Empire forced a change in plans. Originally it was going to end with a quasi-Dark Reign scenario where Hydra is vanquished thanks to Kubik shenanigans and the World Security Council from the movies steps in to assume power over super heroes and everything has Civil War-era overtones with registrations, boot camps, the idea of an Inhuman ban. The Vanishing Point would be a way to bring back Steve, Tony, Thor, Banner; sort of like Hickman’s “Time Runs Out” jump-skip but in reverse, it would rewind the characters to before the Hydra subversion stars. The classic heroes realize that they have lost touch with the people and need to learn how to fight for them again. In the meantime, the new generation of Miles, Kamala, Riri and other Champions would form “the resistance” against the WSC state. (“Generation” was also planned to be the transition from the classic guys taking a step back and letting the new generation lead the charge).

Legacy is a rush-job. They can’t afford to take the classic characters off the table like that for so long but they also don’t want to piss off the new diverse audience they’ve been trying to court. They’re trying to have their cake and eat it too, and please all masters. It’s a scattershot way to buy time while they right the course on several books. It’s not going to be about “new number 1s” but milestone 500, 600, 800 issues. A lot of these big volume numbers are really stretching the definition but the constant relaunches have started to seriously damage the trade department’s ability to plan out long-term marketing.

They’re bringing back the Ultimate line for the teen heroes. Miles will become Ultimate Spider-Man again. Siri becomes Ultimate Iron Man. X-Men Blue becomes Ultimate X-Men. Champions becomes the Ultimates. The only “adult” character that will be a regular presence is Captain Marvel because they want her to be seen a prominent character to the overarching power structure of the WSC/SHIELD and other elements that will factor into her movie heavily. They’ll still make guest appearances in the “main” books but don’t expect them to anchor anymore franchises. Bendis staying on Miles and Riri. Hopeless is still on Ult X. New Ultimates writer is Amy Reeder

Waid is a stop-gap on Cap to bridge the Legacy launch, then takes over Iron Man with 600 (Doom will be the main villain). Coates is taking over Cap with 700. They want him on the book to endorse the image rehabilitation. There’s a lot of face-palming internally about the “cap is a nazi” talk. He’s on both that and Black Panther as long as his schedule allows.

They got lucky with Greg Pak and Hulk. It leads into a Planet Hulk revival pretty seamlessly.

Jane Foster dying was always the end-game with the storyline, but the positive response with female fans means they’re trying to find a way to make her stick around. Tentatively planning to make her the new Valkyrie as the movie version is a blank slate and no one cares about the 70s Defenders character.

Classic Thor will be space-bound for awhile. Definitely through “Ragnarok.”

Slott is off Amazing Spider-Man. They’re going to move him over to Friendly Neighborhood; the fear is he would sign exclusive with DC if they took it away from him completely. Plus he struggles with deadlines and there’s less risk with him off to the side. They can’t ignore declining sales anymore and it’s time for a refresh.

Spencer was earmarked for ‘Amazing Spider-Man” for awhile but he’s “earned it” after taking the heat for Secret Empire. Plus there are fans of his “Superior Foes” book in editorial and the plan is to emphasize tech-based criminals, go smaller scale, focus on NYC. Yes, like the movie. No, they’re not going to de-age him to a teenager. (Although it is a corporate synergy idea that has been floated; editorial has been able to argue that there’s no great way to do it … yet. They’re hoping Tom Holland ages up and they give up on that idea. The time-displaced X-Men are an albatross brought on by First Class synergy).

No major plans for MJ beyond guest spots here and there. The marriage isn’t coming back ever. Renew Your Vows will stick around until its a money-loss. It’s just a spin-off that had some legs, like Spider-Gwen. Silver Sable/Black Cat plans are being developed. Big plans for the Venom series to have a central role in Marvel events.

The X-Men are still in a tight spot. ResurrXion was itself a rush job after the Inhumans movie push was officially kaput and there was no future for family of books. Because of the Fox issue, they still can’t create new ideas that could go toward the movies so its literally just nostalgia retreads. Uncanny will be back next year with Xavier. Old Man Logan is sticking around for the foreseeable future with X-23 becoming his sidekick, the book will be called “Wolverine.” They burned out Deadpool fans with the price gouging, so no plans for spin-off series, but there will always be mini-series on the side to line out trades.

Seriously, don’t expect the classic Fantastic Four anytime soon. Ike has seemingly dug his heels in; even though Fox will probably never figure out what to do with them, he’s spiting the brand because of how bad the negotiations went. Sue & Reed and the kids are seen as “boring” enough to sacrifice. Two-In-One is basically a containment book for people to get their F4 fix. It’s an inventory book, no set writer, it’s like “Avenging Spider-Man” or “A+X.” Different writers will get to use different pet characters.

Ms. Marvel is in a funky spot because most at Marvel are aware that something organically special happened with her book. She’s basically the new “Runaways,” a special project with a special writer’s connection. It will last as long as Wilson wants to writer her, with a focus on the bookstore market while she pops in and out of other books when relevant. They want the audience to have enough familiarity with her because it’s inevitable she’ll be adapted sooner than later; it’s way too soon for her to be introduced into any Carol Danvers sequels so the TV division might snag her for their Hulu/Freeform teen show pitches. (Moon Girl is saved by her trade sales but the threshold is much lower for if sales drop any lower.)

Wilson is also taking over Captain Marvel. They need to make it work and she’ll do the best job tying the legacy together. Kamala, Monica Rambeau, SWORD — its all part of it.


Runaways is just a mini-series. They just want the trade out in time for the Hulu show. They can’t seem to get readers to care if it’s not BKV but they know people still love the franchise.

Cloak & Dagger and New Warriors series are coming. Squirrel Girl is wrapping up and North is moving her storylines over to NW where she’ll be the main character.

Elektra, Bullseye, Kingpin tanking so hard shook them. They need the “Marvel Knights Netflix” corner to be sustainable, so they’re relying on Bendis on Defenders & Jessica Jones for awhile. Say what you want about his other stuff, everyone here thinks its still his sweet spot.

Brian Buccellato is on Daredevil with issue 600.

Justin Jordan is on Moon Knight; big hope that he can give Marvel their “mature” critically acclaimed book that juices up that corner of Marvel.

Secret Warriors and Royals are already wrapping up. Rosenberg is moving over to one main Inhumans book. Quake/SHIELD will be background characters until “Agents” wraps up (everyone knows this is the last season).

They’re going to give Ahmed a shot with Black Bolt until sales drop.

No plans to take Duggan off Guardians. Gunn is moving full steam ahead with Adam Warlock weirdness and they want to make sure those characters/ideas are “accessible” but still fun.

Punisher War Machine is just one storyline involving Stark tech. They want to pull the character back from some of the real-life darkness and imagery; Nate Edmondson’s rep + Secret Empire has made him “ugly” (plus no one cares about Cloonan’s run). They want to scale him back to the Spider-Man/Defenders side of street-level, with less focus on real guns and more emphasis on comic book-y tech.

Al Ewing is on Spirits of Vengeance. Editorial likes him, but he can’t sell a book to save his life. They just want someone with a love of Marvel lore to write the magic/horror characters to have them prepped for future Movie Phase exploration with a Blade reboot. They know that corner of Marvel horror needs its own “Annihilation.”
Click to expand...
 
W

whatsinaname

Member
It's only /co/ rumours. No point in reacti

Cloak & Dagger and New Warriors series are coming. Squirrel Girl is wrapping up and North is moving her storylines over to NW where she’ll be the main character.
Click to expand...

WTF is this shit?!
 
R

Ross61

Member
ElNarez said:
Okay, here's the piece, posted by a /co/ user calling themselves "TheWhisperer". There's also additional material where he answers questions, but the post is long enough as is.
Click to expand...

This is even more well though out bullshit than r/DCEUleaks. Take notes "DC insiders"
 
E

ElNarez

Banned
Ross61 said:
This is even more well though out bullshit than r/DCEUleaks. Take notes "DC insiders"
Click to expand...

It's smart enough to incorporate recent Bleeding Cool reporting, and it's got choice tidbits like Editorial having no ideas why Al Ewing's book don't sell more (maybe don't embroil them in every goddamn event ever for fucking once). But then the supplemental stuff goes into things like this, on IvX :

it was a necessary evil to address the elephant in the room. point blank: Grant morrison and joss whedon made Cyke a better stronger character and no one who has written him since has been able get to that level -- while also address the corporate driven event gimmicks that have needed him in the Magneto role.
Click to expand...
 
O

Obliterator

Member
Just wanted to stop by say, and say I've jumped all in on DC Rebirth. I've read the Rebirth starting event, Volume 1 of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. Just ordered Volume 2 of all of those and Volume 1 of Aquaman.

I haven't gotten this into comics in a really long time so it feels pretty cool getting back into the swing of things. I'm really loving these DC books
 
G

GAMEPROFF

Banned
This all sounds to good to be true. And I would love when all these Ultimate Characters get to their own universe again.


I am just a bit scared about that deaging thing. I would seriously consider stop reading Spider-Man when this would happen.
 
E

ElBoxyBrown

Banned
Cancel Squirrel Girl and have her headline a New Warriors book that will sell worse than her solo and be cancelled after 12 issues. Good plan. Totally believable.
 
O

Obliterator

Member
No idea what current Marvel is like but I kinda wish they would do a "reset" like DC did with Rebirth so I could get into them. I feel like wherever Marvel currently is, is way too vast to get into now if you aren't already invested. What I'm loving about Rebirth is I'm jumping in early enough that I can get caught up to speed decently quick enough
 
M

Malyse

Member
Obliterator said:
No idea what current Marvel is like but I kinda wish they would do a "reset" like DC did with Rebirth so I could get into them. I feel like wherever Marvel currently is, is way too vast to get into now if you aren't already invested. What I'm loving about Rebirth is I'm jumping in early enough that I can get caught up to speed decently quick enough
Click to expand...
Just read Gwenpool.
 
L

LordOfLore

Banned
ElNarez said:
It's smart enough to incorporate recent Bleeding Cool reporting, and it's got choice tidbits like Editorial having no ideas why Al Ewing's book don't sell more (maybe don't embroil them in every goddamn event ever for fucking once). But then the supplemental stuff goes into things like this, on IvX :
Click to expand...
Is there a full link or quote?

(Not going to make a thread)
 
E

ElNarez

Banned
LordOfLore said:
Is there a full link or quote?

(Not going to make a thread)
Click to expand...

I'm gonna dump it all here.

AGAIN: THIS IS HIGHLY SPECULATIVE, BECAUSE IT IS FROM AN UNNAMED SOURCE POSTING ON /CO/, TREAT WITH CAUTION OR BETTER YET DISMISS ENTIRELY

On "The Vanishing Point":
Its just like ... a Spencer plot device. It could have been WeirdWorld (oh boy that was a failed plan). It's just Spencer's take on a "place out of time" a la Morrison.
Click to expand...

On future plans for Spider-Man:
There are no plans for a Spidey reboot like that. They can't get readers to pick up a teen Peter Parker since Bendis killed off Ultimate.

They wrote themselves into a corner because no one cares about kids books like Marvel Adventures or that "Spidey" book from last year.

There has been some discussion about an "Untold Tales of Spider-Man" relaunch with teen Peter and the high school cast but they don't want Busiek and there's no market for "prequel" books.

There's a thought (and I agree) that once the animated Miles movie comes out, they'll have their "Spider-Man for kids" so we want to keep him strong in the comics and cartoon merch. The Sony deal is kind of closed off but in terms of brand direction, we're all about synergy. The Gwen revival talk is dead now that the Emma Stone movies are done.

We're just kind of waiting to see Sony's next steps but there's kind of like a prep for nostalgia for the Raimi trajection in terms of MJ & college.

We're in the dark about a lot of the post Infinity War plans now but the overarching brand direction we were looking at was scaling it to revolve around Spider-Man even though Marvel can't make a solo Spidey film.

I think Tom Holland is going to be the new lynchpin for the MCU. They're not going to have a new "Iron Man" franchise but they've got Holland locked into a deal where he'll teaming up with characters in their own stuff.
Click to expand...

On the plans for Secret Empire:
The original plan was to mirror the Civil War to secret Invasion to Dark Reign arc.

There's a reason this is called Secret Empire. The next step was "Nomad"'ing the entire Marvel lineup. There was a lot of editorial excitement about saying something about Trump's win and the baby boomer backlash.

No one was expecting the backlash to cap hydra and they probably could have kept the original plans intact but I think it was the sales/marketing push that buried it.

Not everyone is an idiot here; we are aware of how we price gouge comic shops. I think that was more the issue and once all the online fan political arguing started happening around the book, retailers just finally threw their hands cause it wasn't worth the outrage.
Click to expand...

On the new Ultimates line:
just an imprint line. not a separate universe.

Jason Aaron is off doing his own thing. His Avengers BC thing is just a Morrison mini series idea he has.
Spencer "made his statement" now that Captain Sam won't be the status quo (that was the original plan while Steve goes back to the maskless "Super Soldier" identity).
I think everyone agrees its time to take teens away from Waid.

But the senior editors had big plans for that push and now there's nowhere else to put it. But we can't just get rid of it forever.

There was no plan to replace all the "white men" its just how the pieces fell into the place. Honestly, the Riri thing was the tipping point. It was Bendis' idea, no one in editorial had a big plan for it and it hurt the big post-Secret Wars push to make Tony Stark the franchise of the MU.

Since it's basically a book for his daughter, we're kind of stuck keeping her in print.

Edit wants to have a fresh voice on a Miles book in time for the Sony cartoon. David Walker apparently had a pitch that got people excited.

But there's just no way to take Miles AND Riri away from Bendis without burning a bridge with him forever.
Click to expand...

On the future of Dan Slott at Marvel:
I'm not kidding: the Slott FNSM run is going to marketed like Joss Whedon on Astonishing. It's its "own thing" "unrestricted by the monthly continuity but still taking place in the MU" which is code for "if its late, its late."

It's going to be sold as "separate but equal" to Amazing. I have no idea how long it will last, but it's to assuage his ego apparently as he was not interested in other books.

I don't think anybody wants anyone else to jump to DC. The real fear is Disney seeing that Warner had success moving the comics office to Burbank and lining everything up under one roof.

Moving Marvel Comics out of NYC and onto the Disney lots is a real possibility. A lot of us will get downsized or just not relocate if that happens.
Click to expand...

On the variants that were gonna change comics forever:
not surprised. just our typical variant trick thats been met with diminishing returns while contracts get lined up for new last-minute books to replace post SE plans.
shitty day for me because i had to handle a lot of the online damage control until like 8:30
Click to expand...

On Annie May in Renew Your Vows:
I dunno, ask gerry conway. Marvel doesn't care; its a side book serving a niche
Click to expand...

On whether any past Big Name Creator could return:
lol. none. this is just re-shuffling teams around like how we did Marvel Now. Soule is taking a play out of Gillen's book and just taking a Star Wars paycheck while focusing on creator owned books.
The SW stuff is like a safe zone from most of the BS because they're always going to sell.

I don't know the last time I've seen Claremont's name in any marketing prep.
Click to expand...

On Carnage and the Power Pack:
Carnage: big villain for the Venom plans
Power Pack: early early development for a freeform show, comic would follow obviously
Click to expand...

On rumors Dan Slott could return to DC:
cause thats just how the comic business works. he likes superheroes. i don't think anyone would turn down the opportunity to write superman or spiderman or batman or x men
Click to expand...

On the Original 5 returning:
This is how Marvel corporate works under Ike: we don't give the fox and sony movies anything but we will milk the cash in on comics.

After X3, the plan was to do a teen focused reboot, so we were going to cash in on that. Not literally the movie cast, but remove the baggage and make them streamlined and accessible to younger demos.

Claremont is like the "Spider Man wedding" of X Men. Its this unwieldy thing that none of the senior editors like that they want to rewind but because of the movie deal we can't make new IP.

X-Men has been a micromanaged mess since I started here. AVX was a sales team gimmick to replicate Civil War, which messed up Schism. Remender's plans got hijacked by the time displaced O5 which was a pretty shameless Bendis pitch to corporate. There's no central architect guiding the franchise, just big plans that get derailed by the next sales gimmick.

Then the fox talks started going really south and it wasn't just "don't give them new ideas" but actively scale it back.

Yes Ike and corporate really thought they could replace X Men with Inhumans. They don't actually care what it is, just as long as they own it.

The 05 was seen as a way to scale it back and might as well "House of M" the last vestige of Grant Morrison's run and just make Scott & Emma straight up super villains. But its been a mess cause no two writers are working together on the bigger picture and Gillen and Aaron and Remender all had different plans.

IVX was a mercy killing to a character that had been written into a corner
Click to expand...

On Hickman:
Its not like he hasn't been invited. a lot of guys don't renew exclusivity once they have enough cache to have indies that sell (and get development deals) while playing the field between DC and Marvel. some guys are still fans for properties like james bond and would jump to follow that ellis run from last year
plus the healthcare package wasn't that amazing, but maybe once obamacare is repealed, writers won't gamble on being freelance lol
Click to expand...

On Nova:
nope. but the nova corps are going to be a big part of the comic. they want it to be like the GLC and have non-Rider options. They want an actual corps of marketable characters.
Click to expand...

On Bendis:
bendis is a little different because he's so entrenched in the tenure of upper mgmt. its just that he would go to DC and take the standing Batman offer he has, its that he is outspoken and would not bite his tongue in regards to animosity. nothing that would sabotage but he would definitely talk about how the company was treating his adopted black daughter's favorite super hero.
Click to expand...

On plans for the Ultimate line and the Avengers book:
One last thing for now that I didn't mention: Reeder's Ultimates line-up is
>Miles, Kamala, Riri, Cho Hulk, and new Wasp led by America. I think the new Patriot from Falcon is also supposed to be a character.
Capt Marvel is, like, the Samuel L Jackson Nick Fury to them

Aaron is writing a "traditional" Avengers book with Cap, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Scott Lang Ant Man (comedic relief), Iron Fist ... and Dr Strange
His BC event is about establishing an "ancient evil" in the Marvel Universe and its some kind of retcon that connects Set to the Serpent Society who are the main villains. Hydra is going to be dormant as a threat for awhile. The bad "Nazi" PR is too raw.
Click to expand...

On Gwenpool:
forgot to answer this: its around until it starts losing money. editorial likes Hastings; when marvel refreshes Deadpool when the sequel comes out, they'll probably try to launch a second DP book with him while Duggan is allowed continue his story until he wants to wrap it up in the higher numbered book
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On the Sony deal:
it was inevitable. we're owned by disney. they have enough money that if they wanted to they *could* just make an offer that a studio couldn't refuse.
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On Nick Spencer's contributions to Marvel:
Spencer's stuff isn't off limits because of Spencer.
I don't think any of Spencer's Cap plots are going to keep going past Spencer's run. I don't think there are any plans for that new Falcon lol

Hydra is "off limits" because sales/marketing pissed people off. it was just tacky. Hydra is the gimmick that caused a lot of bad headlines. Someone will bring them back down the line but it's going to be awhile.
Click to expand...

On the X-Men line as a whole:
x men is never going to be the franchise with a dozen books as long as fox has the adaptation rights. but they can't afford to not print xmen. the want to keep a few books going because they sell (uncanny, wolverine, deadpool definitely, maybe some kind of x force thing usually). they want to keep them marketable for the movie and tv show recognition.
Claremont's stuff is seen as too unwieldy, its weird and operatic and every character comes with a lot of baggage. Plus there's just too many characters and IP. He didn't just give Fox a franchise, he also gave them spin offs.Top brass HATES heavy continuity (they don't even know the word continuity). they don't pay attention to the issue-by-issue details but they would have HATED what Al Ewing did to their mobile game tie in book. Edit likes Ewing and tries to give him little corners but they lose money.

honestly i just don't think they get the x franchise. they don't understand why it can't just be the "teen superhero team."

if marvel at the top had their way, x men would be like how they were in stan lee's day. that team that's there in the group picture, but not taking over half of the group picture.

it's not a deliberate plan to kill the x-men but they're not reacting to the sales drop with the same concern that they have for spider man and iron man. they just see it as a fanbase they're stuck with so might as well sell product to them

ressurxion was a stop-gap. literally the publishing budget was re allocated because they weren't spending so much on inhumans anymore. its not going to last, it was just a fresh coat of paint

gen x, cable, jean grey, iceman and weapon x were only ever mapped out for 12 issues.
after that its back to just uncanny, wolverine and DP with New Mutants, Mystique, and Legion getting another spin
Click to expand...
 
M

Malyse

Member
Brian Fellows said:
This is my favorite DC book of all time.
Click to expand...
Starfire was an incredible book.

The injustice tie in comic is fucking astounding. Like, it's secretly the best book that no one talks about ever. If you ever need an explanation for why people love Harley so much, I would point you to injustice.
 
K

kmfdmpig

Member
Brian Fellows said:
This is my favorite DC book of all time.
Click to expand...

I loved it as well. There's something refreshing about a superhero book that focuses on the character's life, not just their adventures. Power Girl, Zatanna, and Hawkguy all did that well also. Harley Quinn seems to try to do it, but it's such a terrible mess that it doesn't work at all.
 
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